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Byolante posted:Look at how this happened. There was no due process, there was no period of finding the truth. ZQ posted some stuff on her twitter. Immediately his entire industry blacklisted him and booted him from the studio he founded. If the people who facilitated this thought they hadn't done something unconscionable there wouldn't have been a mad rush to try and scrub the internet of their actions. yeah why would someone delete their twitter when they start getting death threats from insane people
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Sep 1, 2019 08:23
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Please retire your oddish avatar you don't deserve it.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:24
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Byolante posted:Look at how this happened. There was no due process, there was no period of finding the truth. ZQ posted some stuff on her twitter. Immediately his entire industry blacklisted him and booted him from the studio he founded. If the people who facilitated this thought they hadn't done something unconscionable there wouldn't have been a mad rush to try and scrub the internet of their actions. Are you suggesting Zoe Quinn literally has the games industry mind controlled and they do whatever she says? Maybe the people involved talked to each other and came to decisions based on the information presented to them?
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Sep 1, 2019 08:25
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Byolante posted:Look at how this happened. There was no due process, there was no period of finding the truth. ZQ posted some stuff on her twitter. Immediately his entire industry blacklisted him and booted him from the studio he founded. If the people who facilitated this thought they hadn't done something unconscionable there wouldn't have been a mad rush to try and scrub the internet of their actions. yes i'm sure they got on twitter, saw that tweet and immediately went "well i'm not gonna do any extra investigating into this, if it's a tweet it must be true, we have to fire him now" instead of like, talking to others who worked with him and corroborating those stories. Did you read the message that the co-developers of NitW wrote? They clearly had enough inside knowledge and talked to people who confirmed those suspicions that it wasn't just "welp accusations time to cut bait", it stands to reason that maybe the other people who decided that it was no longer OK to collaborate with him did the same thing.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:28
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OwlFancier posted:Are you suggesting Zoe Quinn literally has the games industry mind controlled and they do whatever she says? Zoe Quinn is a bit part player in a seriously sick and toxic community built on destroying people for likes. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 1, 2019 08:28
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quote from people who worked with him for years, for reference:quote:I'm not going to root through everything in there and give a line by line analysis, but I'll say that enough of the allegations are extremely plausible and just about all of it we've corroborated with other sources. I'm not going to list those out here, this isn't a trial, and we don't /owe/ the internet a comprehensive accounting of why so many people who have known Alec for years have looked at the accusations and believed them. Go The gently caress Away, Byolante
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Sep 1, 2019 08:30
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Again you're completely ignoring even the faintest possibility that the people involved talked to each other and came to a decision to stop associating with the dude based on that. You know, like I sincerely hope you might do if someone told you a coworker was sexually assaulting people?? Like the people involved literally said they did??? Like if you're railing against making blind assumptions about people you're coming at this assuming that literally everyone was out from the start to murder this dude which is really drat weird.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:32
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Byolante posted:Look at how this happened. There was no due process, there was no period of finding the truth. ZQ posted some stuff on her twitter. Immediately his entire industry blacklisted him and booted him from the studio he founded. If the people who facilitated this thought they hadn't done something unconscionable there wouldn't have been a mad rush to try and scrub the internet of their actions. Byolante posted:Zoe Quinn is a bit part player in a seriously sick and toxic community built on destroying people for likes. Okay I edited my previous post to say I'd be more polite, but what the gently caress are you on about? How the hell do you it affects a person to be the catalyst for an entire movement of misogynist, rage driven men? To be the nexus, the focus for their fury and hate? Do you think anyone, anyone, would expose themselves to that demon core of vitriol without a good reason? For likes? Keep Zoë Quinn's name out of your loving mouth.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:32
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you know what's hosed up though is that the guy was supposedly getting better.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:33
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Byolante posted:Zoe Quinn is a bit part player in a seriously sick and toxic community built on destroying people for likes. That sounds pretty serious. You should take it to the police if you have evidence that someone conspired to kill Alec Holowka and ruin his career and stop irresponsibly throwing it around online. I know neither of us wants vigilantes to take things into their own hands.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:33
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It's sad that one person with bad opinions in this thread made pretty much everyone in it so hostile. It's already ruined.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:36
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Again what alternative are you suggesting because you're literally saying that you can't publicly accuse someone of doing bad things because they might die if you do and that would be your fault.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:37
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cubicle gangster posted:It's sad that one person with bad opinions in this thread made pretty much everyone in it so hostile. It's already ruined. Nah we can recover. Everyone expected this, it's catharsis and inevitability and I think it just kinda needs to happen.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:37
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(note: I am not a psychologist, my only insight is being diagnosed as clinically depressed, who had family take him to the hospital ER, because I didn't see a way out and was scared what I was going to do to myself if I didn't). I think it's because they didn't see a way out of their situation. They likely thought two things. 1) "I'm a horrible person who's done horrible things to people. I don't deserve to live.", combined with 2) "I'll never be able to work again, I'll never be able to get past this. I can't handle this." That, combined with everyone cutting ties with him, reinforcing those two facts for days on end, made suicide seem like the only way out of the situation. (again, I'm not trying to diagnose Alec, I think it's sad)
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Sep 1, 2019 08:37
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cubicle gangster posted:It's sad that one person with bad opinions in this thread made pretty much everyone in it so hostile. It's already ruined. I'm still baffled that people can't resist responding to the shitposter en masse. The internet has been around long enough, there's no excuse anymore SirFozzie posted:(again, I'm not trying to diagnose Alec, I think it's sad) Yeah I think the fact that Alec killed himself, along with some of the other information his sister shared, indicates a lot about his mental state that was probably a major contributor to the reason he was abusing in the first place. He seems like less of a malicious abuser and more like someone who really needed therapy or mental help RazzleDazzleHour fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 08:38
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cubicle gangster posted:It's sad that one person with bad opinions in this thread made pretty much everyone in it so hostile. It's already ruined. counterpoint: it's great that it was just one dude and everyone else called him out for being the idiot he so clearly is. RazzleDazzleHour posted:I'm still baffled that people can't resist responding to the shitposter en masse. The internet has been around long enough, there's no excuse anymore i mean yeah that dude is posting in bad faith but there might be people out there reading this topic who are leading towards the way that dude thinks and even if the obvious shitposter isn't going to change their opinion, people reading this who don't know a lot about it might be swayed
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Sep 1, 2019 08:38
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To try to reset the hostility a little... if you believe that these accusations are made up, what would it take for you to believe the women reporting their experiences?
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Sep 1, 2019 08:39
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Ojo posted:To try to reset the hostility a little... if you believe that these accusations are made up, what would it take for you to believe the women reporting their experiences? You're trying to reset the hostility so it starts over, yeah?
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Sep 1, 2019 08:43
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I don't know if it's within the purview of the roundup, but didn't Randy Pitchford (of noted embezzling scheme Gearbox Entertainment) have child porn on his computer along with various other scummy things? Did that just sorta get dropped?
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Sep 1, 2019 08:44
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cubicle gangster posted:You're trying to reset the hostility so it starts over, yeah? Hah, okay, poor phrasing, that's not my intention.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:45
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Ojo posted:To try to reset the hostility a little... if you believe that these accusations are made up, what would it take for you to believe the women reporting their experiences? The moon on a stick.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:45
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DC Murderverse posted:counterpoint: it's great that it was just one dude and everyone else called him out for being the idiot he so clearly is. I'm sure people unaware of the situation are going to be swayed to the side of people saying innocent people killing themselves is a small price to pay for maybe making reporting abuse more effective. Ojo posted:To try to reset the hostility a little... if you believe that these accusations are made up, what would it take for you to believe the women reporting their experiences? If all the nameless people alluded to actually came out to a reputable journalist, even as nameless sources, and some level of fact checking was done prior to the accusations being made public. There are lots of good journalists working in the industry who can professionally handle a situation like this, just look at how Cecelia D'Anastasio handled the sexual harrassment at Riot story.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:46
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GrandpaPants posted:I don't know if it's within the purview of the roundup, but didn't Randy Pitchford (of noted embezzling scheme Gearbox Entertainment) have child porn on his computer along with various other scummy things? Did that just sorta get dropped? Didn't he have it on a thumbdrive along with a bunch of confidential stuff and then he lost it at a coffee shop or something? It's like the polar opposite of the guy involved in LOTR leaving the script at café in Auckland or whatever it was.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:47
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I think that we all agree that Byolante is a "horrible jerk". And Horrible Jerks, when detected, end up on Ignore Lists. Let them shout out their idiotic takes to the uncaring ether.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:48
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Dude was guilty as sin and everyone knows it.  Maybe don't sexually abuse a big bunch of women if you don't want people calling you a sex pest.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:48
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Byolante posted:innocent people So you're calling the accusers liars. Can you quantify that with evidence? Like you, I'm deeply concerned with proving accusations.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:49
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GrandpaPants posted:I don't know if it's within the purview of the roundup, but didn't Randy Pitchford (of noted embezzling scheme Gearbox Entertainment) have child porn on his computer along with various other scummy things? Did that just sorta get dropped? He had video of a girl from a webcam site (who are supposed to be 18+) on his laptop. Her username was something indicating she was barely 18 but I wouldn't put any stock in that because "BARELY LEGAL" it's basically the porn equivalent of clickbait. His business partner, who Randy had already filed a lawsuit against, accused him of having weird pedophilia parties which is totally separate from the laptop fiasco. Guy's a loving weirdo and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some nuggets of truth in what the lawsuit said in regards to him keeping huge bonuses for himself, but pedophilia is taken pretty seriously so if he hasn't been arrested I'd say they probably haven't found anything. Black Griffon posted:Didn't he have it on a thumbdrive along with a bunch of confidential stuff and then he lost it at a coffee shop or something? Worse, in a loving Medieval Times
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Sep 1, 2019 08:49
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GrandpaPants posted:I don't know if it's within the purview of the roundup, but didn't Randy Pitchford (of noted embezzling scheme Gearbox Entertainment) have child porn on his computer along with various other scummy things? Did that just sorta get dropped? Black Griffon posted:Didn't he have it on a thumbdrive along with a bunch of confidential stuff and then he lost it at a coffee shop or something? Unfortunately the case is a civil suit and will probably get settled out of court so we will never know, but the accusation from what I remember is a thumb drive with clips4sale customs mixed in with confidential business data was left in a bar after randy got tanked and forgot to take his poo poo with him.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:49
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So... lots of people coming out to say they were abused: bad. Lots of people coming out to a journalist I like who the repeats it: good? I am not seeing the distinction. Other than finding a journalist is another hurdle and it cuts people off from direct methods of communication and possibly makes the accusations less visible.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:49
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:So you're calling the accusers liars. Can you quantify that with evidence? I was referring to this post my friend 
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Sep 1, 2019 08:51
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:He had video of a girl from a webcam site (who are supposed to be 18+) on his laptop. Her username was something indicating she was barely 18 but I wouldn't put any stock in that because "BARELY LEGAL" it's basically the porn equivalent of clickbait. His business partner, who Randy had already filed a lawsuit against, accused him of having weird pedophilia parties which is totally separate from the laptop fiasco. Guy's a loving weirdo and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some nuggets of truth in what the lawsuit said in regards to him keeping huge bonuses for himself, but pedophilia is taken pretty seriously so if he hasn't been arrested I'd say they probably haven't found anything. I think someone found out the alleged pedo parties were just this weird nerdy amateur theater Randy and his wife hosted at their house. Bohemian Grove for Gamers. Fake edit: I had to google "owl party rich people" because I forgot the name of Bohemian Grove.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:52
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OwlFancier posted:So... lots of people coming out to say they were abused: bad. “An anonymous source?” The gamer excretes sweatily “This is just all made up lies!”
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Sep 1, 2019 08:54
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Yes, it's absolutely the innocent people that are the first to have multiple women accusing then of sexual harassment, followed by their co-workers adding that they knew they were creeps.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:55
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OwlFancier posted:So... lots of people coming out to say they were abused: bad. You missed the part where I said that the journalist would do some level of fact checking prior to publication. Finding a reputable voice who has investigated where practicable the accusations then publishes them to a masthead. The accusers shouldn't ever have to be revealed to the public or the accused but there is a level of legitimacy there that some posts on twitter by their nature don't have.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:56
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Like what do you just want to maybe accuse people of sexual assault a bit quieter? Maybe don't make it quite so visible? Launder it through some news site nobody reads so there's less pressure to do anything about it? Again really do not see how putting a journalist in the middle actually does anything other than possibly those things.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:56
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Byolante posted:You missed the part where I said that the journalist would do some level of fact checking prior to publication. Finding a reputable voice who has investigated where practicable the accusations then publishes them to a masthead. The accusers shouldn't ever have to be revealed to the public or the accused but there is a level of legitimacy there that some posts on twitter by their nature don't have. How is lots of people publicly making accusations "less legitimate" than having some journalist publish them? Like that's not how sources work. You don't make sources more believable by having them go through some intemediary, you do exactly the opposite. Sure if the people making the accusations wanted a bit more protection that's a viable route but if they're willing to do it publicly then good for them? They have chosen (or, y'know, as much as it's a choice in the absence of other options) to put themselves on the line to increase the validity of their claim. Also if you're suggesting that nobody should be named that really smacks of pushing it under the rug. "Some sexual assault happend, can't say who, can't say where, but it did, trust me" is not something that is going to achieve anything, and you know that. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 08:58
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OwlFancier posted:So... lots of people coming out to say they were abused: bad. A lot of these allegations come out as a result of whispered warnings spreading. Personally as someone who's been through abuse, I've felt a need to warn people in the past, and urgency has been a major factor in that.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:58
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Black Griffon posted:I think someone found out the alleged pedo parties were just this weird nerdy amateur theater Randy and his wife hosted at their house. Bohemian Grove for Gamers. Yeah, basically this was what Randy originally said in his own defense. He also said they video taped every one if the police wanted to see them, so I'm guessing that combined with the whole him still working thing means they didn't really find anything to substantiate those claims. I think a big reason people were so ready to believe the pedophilia claims is because of Randy's loving insane "talk about barely-legal porn on a Podcast" defense Ojo posted:Personally I'd also be inclined to say that the fact that his colleagues did their own informal investigation and came to the conclusion that they believed the allegations is more convincing to me than getting a journalist involved. I almost made the first response to this thread but wanted to wait a little to make sure it didn't go rear end-up (should have been more patient), and my original post read something like "some of the stories, especially the ones against Alec, are so well-corroborated only the biggest dregs are going to say "BUT WHERES THE PROOF" but you're going to get Those People in any argument" RazzleDazzleHour fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 08:58
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Also how is "get a journalist to investigate it privately and then publish what they think" remotely due process? That's literally worse than doing it all in public loudly and messily. Most concepts of justice require it to be done in public.
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Sep 1, 2019 09:02
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Hi is this the thread where we go to bat for dead rapists Look, that innocent boy would be alive today if all his victims had just kept their goddamn mouths shut
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