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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Terper posted:

I can't believe Eren is the real author of Attack on TItan, whispering the story for Isayama to pen down.

It felt a moment very much of type "Eren was the real villain of AoT all along"

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tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
Could somebody post a link?

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012

iamsosmrt posted:

I wouldn't have guessed a timeloop plot, at least not based on Grisha's actions. So are we going to see when Eren eats Grisha?
I can't remember, is there a reason Eren couldn't use the founding power via contact with Historia? Or has she simply been kept away from him like Zeke?

Historia is not a Titan or a Shifter.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
https://mangadex.org/chapter/702638/1

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos
drat, things are really getting complicated

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012
I was really expecting that Zeke would see something with Eren's memories that would convince him to go along with Eren's plan (whatever it actually turs out to be) over his own. This development really blindsided me.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Thank you

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009
With the way this manga is going Reiner's plot armor of suffering might actually be a legitimate ability

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
Holy poo poo

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...
Yes
Yeeesssssss
Still don't understand how Zeke's in control, though.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Beefstew posted:

Yes
Yeeesssssss
Still don't understand how Zeke's in control, though.

He's Royal Blood.

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...

MonsterEnvy posted:

He's Royal Blood.

But that means he SHOULDN'T have control. The Founding Titan is a big catch-22 where it only works for royals, but they get possessed by the First King's will and can't use it. Eren basically discovered a loophole when he commanded the Titans through Dina.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Beefstew posted:

But that means he SHOULDN'T have control. The Founding Titan is a big catch-22 where it only works for royals, but they get possessed by the First King's will and can't use it. Eren basically discovered a loophole when he commanded the Titans through Dina.

Yes, but Zeke managed to get around it by not being descended from the King that made the deal. As a result he was able to alter the deal.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k
I am rooting for Eren and I don't know anymore if I should be


I'm kinda lost with all this mess

Sub Harrison
May 2, 2013

Holy loving hell. I like how this series started with trying to rationalize titans scientifically. Now we're here transcending space and time in every sense of the phrase. Still trying to wrap my head around how Eren's future self (not the present Eren who's witnessing the past with Zeke) showed Grisha the future (the future as in what happens post-coordinate plane in Shiganshina) to persuade Grisha to steal the Founder and give it to Eren, which also served to allow his past self (the past Eren who touched Historia's hand) witness this future through the past memories of Grisha and trigger Eren to team up with Zeke so he could make all these events take place.

So how long has Eren been affecting the past? Since the first king or for the last 2000 years as some sort of will of Ymir?

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.
Taco Defender
If its true and he has been in control this entire time..... Then the survey corps some how had all the most powerful characters(of the story and of the universe) trying out to be soldiers and never know it.

Really this is getting close to peak anime and jump qualities of story telling.

Hot Take, Eren dies in the end and Zeke inherits the attack titan and it forces him to carry out Eren's plan.

I'm going off just this top panel here because Zeke is in it.

Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Sep 5, 2019

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Tenzarin posted:

If its true and he has been in control this entire time..... Then the survey corps some how had all the most powerful characters(of the story and of the universe) trying out to be soldiers and never know it.

Really this is getting close to peak anime and jump qualities of story telling.

Can you rephrase that, coherently?

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.
Taco Defender

Sub Harrison posted:

Holy loving hell. I like how this series started with trying to rationalize titans scientifically. Now we're here transcending space and time in every sense of the phrase. Still trying to wrap my head around how Eren's future self (not the present Eren who's witnessing the past with Zeke) showed Grisha the future (the future as in what happens post-coordinate plane in Shiganshina) to persuade Grisha to steal the Founder and give it to Eren, which also served to allow his past self (the past Eren who touched Historia's hand) witness this future through the past memories of Grisha and trigger Eren to team up with Zeke so he could make all these events take place.

So how long has Eren been affecting the past? Since the first king or for the last 2000 years as some sort of will of Ymir?


Who is in control? Is it the attack titan memories or Eren? Why did they call the time controlling titan the attack titan? Is the reason why the attack titan was never on the island because the king didn't like the attack titan or did he started his whole plan without considering to not let the time controlling titan interfere?

I kinda want another flash back arc of the entire titan war or at least the juicy parts.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

MonsterEnvy posted:

Yes, but Zeke managed to get around it by not being descended from the King that made the deal. As a result he was able to alter the deal.

No, he got around it by not being the one with the founding titan.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.
Taco Defender
At the start of the last chapter Zeke starts off with that he has been in the path for so long waiting for Eren to be reformed that he had figured out how to undo the vow.



Actually looking at it now, both of you sound kinda correct.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Tenzarin posted:

Who is in control? Is it the attack titan memories or Eren? Why did they call the time controlling titan the attack titan? Is the reason why the attack titan was never on the island because the king didn't like the attack titan or did he started his whole plan without considering to not let the time controlling titan interfere?

I kinda want another flash back arc of the entire titan war or at least the juicy parts.


I believe the series is leading towards Eren being, and having always been, the will of the Attack Titan. 2000 years of history leading towards him, the last holder.

It does make a twisted kind of thematic sense: throughout we see how the present is shackled by the past, both metaphorically and literally in the case of the power of the titans, but it is the Attack Titan alone that looks towards the future. Ironically, by shackling the present to a vision of it.

It also makes sense that this power belongs to the "giant of advancing".

As for why it was free at the end of the Titan War, well, it couldn't be controlled. That's the point.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying
Well, now that time travel is in play there's always the stable time loop option: Eren uses Ymir to send the Eldians (or maybe just the titans?) back in time 2000 years ago. The Eldians get to live and have kids, the present and future world doesn't have to deal with the titans, and the timeline is preserved.

Also it fits with that opening chapter title.

Sindai fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 5, 2019

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...

MonsterEnvy posted:

Yes, but Zeke managed to get around it by not being descended from the King that made the deal. As a result he was able to alter the deal.

But the same applies to Dina and Eren was able to direct it there. So what gives? Unless Dina secretly used it to suicide herself.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Beefstew posted:

But that means he SHOULDN'T have control. The Founding Titan is a big catch-22 where it only works for royals, but they get possessed by the First King's will and can't use it. Eren basically discovered a loophole when he commanded the Titans through Dina.

The whole catch-22 thing was that the royal blood people gets overwhelmed by the personality of the past king, and he was a pacifist. He doesn't want to activate the rumbling. So it's consistent.

An alternative explanation could be that the catch-22 was that royal people couldn't get into Paths-Land, but in this case he entered it because Eren who has the coordinate and it isn't royal blood entered with him.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012

Beefstew posted:

But that means he SHOULDN'T have control. The Founding Titan is a big catch-22 where it only works for royals, but they get possessed by the First King's will and can't use it. Eren basically discovered a loophole when he commanded the Titans through Dina.

Zeke doesn't have the Founding Titan. Eren does. The Will of the First King only works on the Founding Titan's owner and only if they are of royal blood. The Founding Titan DRM can be unlocked with someone of royal blood touching its owner, which lets Zeke access the Coordinate without getting rewritten by the First King.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Zeke has control because he was such a frequent customer in the paths dimension.

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...

Gantolandon posted:

Zeke doesn't have the Founding Titan. Eren does. The Will of the First King only works on the Founding Titan's owner and only if they are of royal blood. The Founding Titan DRM can be unlocked with someone of royal blood touching its owner, which lets Zeke access the Coordinate without getting rewritten by the First King.

I know Zeke doesnt have the Founding Titan, but we saw previously that it was EREN who could use the Coordinate when he came in contact with someone of Royal Blood (Dina). The first king's will couldnt affect Eren because he wasn't royal blood, and Zeke isnt affected by it because he doesn't have the Founding Titan. But this doesn't explain why Zeke seemingly has power now - or more accurately, why doesn't Eren (unless he's playing some elaborate game). Eren was able to use the Coordinate before under similar conditions (physical contact with a royal). Is it a tug of war or something? Is it just because Dina wasn't a Shifter? There isn't a clear answer right now.

Or maybe because Eren is technically dead?

Beefstew fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Sep 5, 2019

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.
Taco Defender
You gotta stop thinking in shifter terms. All eldians can become titans, the only difference is the people who hold one of the 9 titans. The renounce thing is only with the founding titan it seems.

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.
Zeke has royal blood but his bloodline and the king who made the vow split at an earlier generation. So they both have royal blood but Zeke doesn't have any of the kings blood.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

GodFish posted:

Zeke has royal blood but his bloodline and the king who made the vow split at an earlier generation. So they both have royal blood but Zeke doesn't have any of the kings blood.

Correct, but it's not a factor at play here.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.
why dont they just use the founder power to destroy the paths? :thunk:

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day
For some time I've thought Eren's plan is along those lines, though it runs the problem that even without the power of the titans Paradis risks annihilation all the same.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying
Yeah they'd be a nearly defenseless nation who most of the world hates sitting on top of a pile of unique and valuable resources.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day
So his plan might be eliminating the paths after annihilating the rest of humanity with the rumbling.

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...
Realistically he has to AT LEAST cripple Marley's military and wipe out all the invasion forces.

redsniper
Feb 15, 2012
Eren will use his wish to become a law of nature that destroys all Titans, past, present, and future.

Also I figured it was something like, the Founding Titan let's you get to the paths coordinate place, but you can only command Ymir there if you have royal blood. Usually someone has both, but the will of the first king had been preventing the Reiss line from commanding Ymir. Zeke isn't bound by the will of the Reisses, but couldn't get in w/o the Founding Titan. Eren can get in if he touches royal blood but can't do anything once there.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Tenzarin posted:

Who is in control? Is it the attack titan memories or Eren? Why did they call the time controlling titan the attack titan? Is the reason why the attack titan was never on the island because the king didn't like the attack titan or did he started his whole plan without considering to not let the time controlling titan interfere?

I kinda want another flash back arc of the entire titan war or at least the juicy parts.


The King was completely unaware of what the Attack Titan was truly capable of. Not all of the Titans agreed with the King's plan, and they didn't follow him to Paradis (Warhammer being the biggest example of this, since the Tybur family actively worked with Marley from the beginning).

ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

This is what fascinates me most in existence: the peculiar necessity of imagining what is, in fact, real.


This is some wild poo poo. I think we're solidly in the endgame, and I could see the series being done by early 2020 at the pace we're moving.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
The fact that even Grisha is horrified with Eren's plan enough to prefer Zeke solution makes me think its something really bad

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Gruckles
Mar 11, 2013

redsniper posted:

Also I figured it was something like, the Founding Titan let's you get to the paths coordinate place, but you can only command Ymir there if you have royal blood. Usually someone has both, but the will of the first king had been preventing the Reiss line from commanding Ymir. Zeke isn't bound by the will of the Reisses, but couldn't get in w/o the Founding Titan. Eren can get in if he touches royal blood but can't do anything once there.

This all seems correct. Except I think Zeke actually was chained initially, but then made a compelling argument to Ymir that he should be exempt from the agreement Reiss made with her.

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