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watho posted:I really love how I can’t point out how someone’s statements run me the wrong way without being accused of wanting them to be put in permanent loving exile that is extremely not what i was trying to say and my statement was more general than pointed at anyone in particular, if you're responding to me. a lot of why i'm voicing this sentiment on SA is because we're typically pretty thoughtful about this poo poo compared to leftbook dinguses and i'm presumably not going to get an insane hate-mob against me for saying it here. e: since a lot of people jumped up my rear end while I was posting this, I want to reiterate that was meant as a general statement about the practice, tangential to all the discussion here WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:13
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"ContraPoints said something incredibly unsavoury on Twitter that deserved to be criticised" and "the vast majority of the responses to what ContraPoints said were disproportionate and constitute mass harassment" can both be true statements. It's upsetting to see that ContraPoints was harassed to such an extent that she needed to delete her Twitter account. That doesn't change the fact that her original tweet chain was very hurtful and that she refused to take responsibility for that. And that doesn't change the fact that mass harassment was a terrible response to said tweet chain.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:15
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sexpig by night posted:*person refuses to acknowledge the disagreements others in the community bring up, proceeds to mock them, delete twitter in a huff* can you shut the gently caress up about nazis for two seconds in your life
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Sep 5, 2019 19:16
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Augus posted:vocalizing ones experiences as a passing and binary trans person is not “throwing non-binaries under a bus” What are you talking about? She's complaining because there are certain people (non-binary and non-passing) that are potentially ruining it and making it dangerous for her by existing and being public? Are you okay? Are you sick?
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Sep 5, 2019 19:17
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https://twitter.com/ArmouredSkeptic/status/1169435946892365824?s=20 lmao
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Sep 5, 2019 19:18
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this keeps happening the exact same way. People whine about 'cancel culture' but they never seem to actually explain what to do about it other than 'stop ever being bothered by anything'. This is a lot like some still kinda going on drama in the niche rear end D&D community of fans of the actual play Critical Role. A guy involved in the after show/talk show elements of it made a big post about how everything's just so toxic and frankly can't everyone on both sides just come together and understand we don't have to be angry in politics? A lot of LGBT/PoC fans said 'hey that's kinda hosed up, you get the other side for us is people who want us to die in camps and poo poo right?' and his response was to double down and freak out about being insulted by the community he (a straight cis white dude) 'did so much for' and delete twitter. Now a bunch of fans are whining about the uppity queers bullying their poor soft boy off the internet (never actually showing any harassment or anything harsher than some people going 'hey bad post my dude') and asking when enough is enough. Just like with this this literally all could be avoided by just a generic 'sorry I phrased my thoughts poorly, twitter's bad for that poo poo, apologies to anyone I hurt' and moving the gently caress on, but it's apparently a rule of being E-Famous that if you ever say the words 'I'm sorry' a genie appears and turns your computer into an angry swan so it's better to just quadruple down I guess.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:19
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Ash Crimson posted:What are you talking about? She's complaining because there are certain people (non-binary and non-passing) that are potentially ruining it and making it dangerous for her by existing and being public? Are you okay? Are you sick? that’s not what she was complaining about and this is the problem with having your sole primary source be a screenshot of the second half of a tweet thread
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Sep 5, 2019 19:19
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"It's not being a mob, it's just critique!", says anime-poisoned person as they relentlessly scold someone online in every space available to them.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:23
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JordanKai posted:"ContraPoints said something incredibly unsavoury on Twitter that deserved to be criticised" and "the vast majority of the responses to what ContraPoints said were disproportionate and constitute mass harassment" can both be true statements.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:25
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Augus posted:that’s not what she was complaining about and this is the problem with having your sole primary source be a screenshot of the second half of a tweet thread that it started in a more mundane if still tone-deaf place has no bearing on whether she later veered headfirst into the gross lane of whining about young non-passing and non-binary people like a trans woman wine mom after they post variations on "this ain't it, chief"
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Sep 5, 2019 19:26
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SunAndSpring posted:"It's not being a mob, it's just critique!", says anime-poisoned person as they relentlessly scold someone online in every space available to them. Ah yes, Natalie couldn't possibly be wrong in her opinions that the existence of non-binary and non-passing transpeople is putting her life at risk, so may they shouldn't do that just asking questions lol!1, nor about any of the implications of that.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:26
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The suggestion is to stop using Twitter. And really you can say the systems broke without having another suggestion. Contrapoints probably won't apologize, really needs to, everyone can sort of take her or leave her. But if she bares responsibility for her lovely statements so do the harassers, and honestly they need to be given poo poo so we can have a better avenue of discussion with creators. Contrapoints can handle this, but I don't think a smaller creator would have. I don't know how they should do things. Discords turn into echo Chambers but I like the ones I've joined.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:27
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sexpig by night posted:this keeps happening the exact same way. People whine about 'cancel culture' but they never seem to actually explain what to do about it other than 'stop ever being bothered by anything'. just disagree with people is she showing support for eugenics? espousing the virtues of the master race? building a shrine to Hitler? defending the klan’s right to protest? no? then just disagree with her. It’s not that hard. whatever well-articulated criticism you might’ve made on Twitter was instantly lost in a sea of white noise, nobody saw it, the person you’re mad at didn’t read it.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:27
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disagree with her, but not like, too much, or else you might give mother the vapors
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Sep 5, 2019 19:31
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https://twitter.com/thelindsayellis/status/1169662868259667968 oh look she's fine and like 90% of the comments are just various forms of 'oh poor bby those meanies should be ashamed', what a shock that the 'cancelled' person is actually fine and not facing any real scrutiny or anything. Augus posted:just this literally started with people disagreeing with her and her doubling down until the loving 30 year old was whining about them drat zoomer fake transes.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:31
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I do like Hank Green in there all 'yea gee I've been thinking of quitting too...' no one cares, Hank.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:32
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There is no one or proper way to transition nor is there a "proper way" to live ones life as a transperson, but Natalie doesn't seem to agree with that sentiment, yet we have people here willing to bend over backwards to defend her for an opinion that is frankly dogshit
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Sep 5, 2019 19:34
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sexpig by night posted:this keeps happening the exact same way. People whine about 'cancel culture' but they never seem to actually explain what to do about it other than 'stop ever being bothered by anything'. i... really don't feel like it's that simple? like, a lot of times when people attempt to apologize for poo poo they got "cancelled" for, everyone assumes it's insincere and they're actually still secretly bad and just hiding it to get their following back. you have to give a real fuckin' good apology, beyond what Twitter even has the space for, for the hate mob to do more than just quiet down for a minute before jumping right back up your rear end. like, when i say there's not a path forward, i'm keeping the obvious in mind; it's just that the obvious doesn't really work, in my experience. (i should also note that, again, we're generally better than the norm about this. i'm not griping about goons' conduct, the discourse here has been 100x more thoughtful than anywhere else on the goddamn internet about this. i'm griping about leftbook asshats on my social media, where this exact same discourse is happening, but... uh... worse. like, a lot of people i consider to be friends who are otherwise decent are being outright loving nasty about this and trying to claim poo poo like that she's actually a secret neo-Nazi trying to gently caress over the left by making fake leftists.) e: also I should note, I 100% agree that her tweets sucked. she had a bad opinion. twitter hate mobs are still not a great way to handle this.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:34
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Augus posted:can you shut the gently caress up about nazis for two seconds in your life I dunno, can nazis stop posing an existential threat to my life.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:35
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As an NB person it sure does loving own that she can poo poo out these takes every other month and we're expected to sit on my hands and accept it lest we get scolded for taking issue with someone calling our existence inconvenient.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:36
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sexpig by night posted:I do like Hank Green in there all 'yea gee I've been thinking of quitting too...' do people still like him? i don't think he is bad dude or anything but i don't get the hype around him. i watched his history videos and some of those are kinda off(i liked some of his lit videos) and i didn't really care for his book about the cancer people because he uses a disibilty trope i legit hate.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:36
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:i... really don't feel like it's that simple? like, a lot of times when people attempt to apologize for poo poo they got "cancelled" for, everyone assumes it's insincere and they're actually still secretly bad and just hiding it to get their following back. you have to give a real fuckin' good apology, beyond what Twitter even has the space for, for the hate mob to do more than just quiet down for a minute before jumping right back up your rear end. who? I mean it seriously who's been 'cancelled' at all, let alone someone who actually tried to apologize and do better? We always talk about 'cancel culture' like it's the boogyman but can't actually give any examples of it.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:36
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SteelMentor posted:As an NB person it sure does loving own that she can poo poo out these takes every other month and we're expected to sit on my hands and accept it lest we get scolded for taking issue with someone calling our existence inconvenient. No but you see you pose a threat to natalie, by mere dint of existing and not hiding yourself in the closet. You are obviously being unreasonable by pushing back against dear queen
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Sep 5, 2019 19:38
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:i... really don't feel like it's that simple? like, a lot of times when people attempt to apologize for poo poo they got "cancelled" for, everyone assumes it's insincere and they're actually still secretly bad and just hiding it to get their following back. you have to give a real fuckin' good apology, beyond what Twitter even has the space for, for the hate mob to do more than just quiet down for a minute before jumping right back up your rear end. heck look at nostalgia critic, he had his entire *website* #cancelled and his videos still get 500k-600k views. nobody's being cancelled. Endorph fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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Let's not pretend that wanting to pass without being questioned on your pronouns is some deadly sin. When you look like a woman, dress like a woman, act like a woman, having to say 'yes I'm a woman' every time is pretty disheartening when all you want to be, all you are, is.... a woman. You know who doesn't have to do that poo poo? Cis people. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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sexpig by night posted:this keeps happening the exact same way. People whine about 'cancel culture' but they never seem to actually explain what to do about it other than 'stop ever being bothered by anything'. It's pretty bananas at how 1:1 both situations are. drat-near identical. Same circling of the wagons response to it too.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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VanSandman posted:Let's not pretend that wanting to pass without being questioned on your pronouns is some deadly sin. When you look like a woman, dress like a woman, act like a woman, having to say 'yes I'm a woman' every time is pretty disheartening when all you want to be is.... a normal woman. uhhhh maybe dont use the word normal in this context it has some bad fuckin implications
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Sep 5, 2019 19:40
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VanSandman posted:Let's not pretend that wanting to pass without being questioned on your pronouns is some deadly sin. When you look like a woman, dress like a woman, act like a woman, having to say 'yes I'm a woman' every time is pretty disheartening when all you want to be is.... a normal woman. And now imagine being blamed for other transwomen being unsafe because you don't pass 100% in all situations, it's a hot take from a woman who should know better.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:41
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Junpei Hyde posted:uhhhh maybe dont use the word normal in this context it has some bad fuckin implications Ok true. Gonna edit my post.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:41
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I'll tell you who gets canceled least: white cis heterosexual males. They can get away with lovely behavior, even crimes, because they have all of establishment culture behind them, and don't really suffer much because of a small subculture turning against them, some extremely loud complaints to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:41
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Jimbot posted:It's pretty bananas at how 1:1 both situations are. drat-near identical. Same circling of the wagons response to it too. it really is hilariously exhausting this past couple weeks if you happen to be a crit role and contra fan who just wants to be LGBT without being lectured and called a woke scold for disliking said lectures, which woops turns out there's a non-zero amount by looking at my twitter feed!
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Sep 5, 2019 19:42
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sexpig by night posted:who? I mean it seriously who's been 'cancelled' at all, let alone someone who actually tried to apologize and do better? We always talk about 'cancel culture' like it's the boogyman but can't actually give any examples of it. literally ProJared, who's like the crown prince of recent cancellations, got back in a lot of peoples' good graces with a lovely half-baked takedown of his victims. and Nick Robinson has slithered back using his real name no less and been pumping out popular videos.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:42
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forget it
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Sep 5, 2019 19:42
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sexpig by night posted:who? I mean it seriously who's been 'cancelled' at all, let alone someone who actually tried to apologize and do better? We always talk about 'cancel culture' like it's the boogyman but can't actually give any examples of it. Aziz Ansari is the example that's coming to mind for me. dude tried to break good initially, and was met with a few "yeah this was a good apology!" responses in a sea of "gently caress OFF FOREVER YOU HORRIBLE PILE OF GARBAGE." now he's playing as hard as he can to chud audiences because they're the only people who will still pay any attention to him and the dude presumably still needs to pay his bills.  i'm blanking on other examples but i also know he's not the first time i've seen this broad pattern of apology -> nobody accepts apology -> apologizer goes "gently caress it, i'm going chud" happen, and i really wish it was easier to look this poo poo up so i could jog my memory.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:43
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CYBEReris posted:literally ProJared, who's like the crown prince of recent cancellations, got back in a lot of peoples' good graces with a lovely half-baked takedown of his victims. and Nick Robinson has slithered back using his real name no less and been pumping out popular videos. seriously every 'cancel culture' victim seems to bounce back just fine. Even ignoring high profile guys like CK being able to bomb into open mics and Aziz getting a netflix special where he fake apologizes and poo poo, loving nobodies like Nick "Car Boys And Who Gives A gently caress What Else" Robinson is still doing fine after being 'cancelled'!
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Sep 5, 2019 19:44
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The cis equivalent would be blaming what other ciswomen wear and look like for provoking/inspiring future violence and sexual assault. You wouldn't accept it in the case of ciswoman and neither should you when transwomen making the exact same argument
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Sep 5, 2019 19:45
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If someone “goes chud” they probably weren’t sincere about their views in the first place
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Sep 5, 2019 19:46
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Aziz Ansari is the example that's coming to mind for me. dude tried to break good initially, and was met with a few "yeah this was a good apology!" responses in a sea of "gently caress OFF FOREVER YOU HORRIBLE PILE OF GARBAGE." now he's playing as hard as he can to chud audiences because they're the only people who will still pay any attention to him and the dude presumably still needs to pay his bills. Ansari's apology before he got a netflix special was literally just 'ya know I'm awkward and I don't think I did anything wrong when I forced myself on that lady but I guess I'm sorry she feels bad', my dude. It was the same as Hardwick's non-apology where he hid behind 'aw gee I'm just a soft timid nerd boy I didn't know what I did'
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Sep 5, 2019 19:46
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VanSandman posted:Let's not pretend that wanting to pass without being questioned on your pronouns is some deadly sin. like even for a nb person a giant circle where everyone goes around saying their pronouns would be awkward as gently caress because itd put a giant spotlight on them as the 'nonstandard one.'
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Sep 5, 2019 19:46
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I'll be perfectly honest here, if you're pushed away from an ideology because you were met with rude or abrasive people "from that side" then you were never interested in that ideology to begin with. If you truly wanted to learn it, in good faith, nothing would deter you from doing so. So the cases of "I tried to be nice to the Left but they drove me away now I appeal to nazis" is the most hollow trash imaginable. You're simply are a drifter.
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