Arsenic Lupin posted:

Not by women, no. I will say that in the men-minority communities I'm part of (fanfic, quilting, knitting) the reaction I mostly see is "Wow! It's so cool to see a dude doing this!" Which is obviously objectifying in its own way, but I haven't seen those communities, as a whole, try to exclude men. It is more than likely that I am lucky in my friends, and in my sub-communities.

The thing is, people who trespass sexually choose their victims. They don't distribute their attentions evenly over a population. They make conscious choices: they choose not only people whom they find appealing, but people they think they can get away with harassing. People who are shy, whose guilt or kindness they can play on; people who don't have powerful allies; people who don't have a social network. Any or all of those. That means that person A can work with Harasser for years on end without suspecting a thing, while persons B, C, and D, submit to Harasser's attentions, or flee, or assume it's all their fault. That is because many harassers are very good at their ... I don't want to call it job, but I can't think of a better one. They've been harassing for years by the time they are caught (if ever), which shows that they've gotten very good at picking on people who can't/won't get support.

So if you didn't see Person X harassing/Person X didn't harass you? That's not evidence. Person X may have decided that they couldn't safely offend in front of you.

Woozy posted:

There are really simple, ordinary, human motivations for staking out and defending a claim of ownership over the medium that also appear anywhere else you find sub-cultures and communities. This whole genre of cultural criticism that starts with "gamers are irreducibly toxic misogynist cretins" is a cowardly punt for dumbshits who miss everything worth catching about the current historical moment.

Cuntellectual posted:

I feel like this is the last thread you should talk down to people about this sort of thing in, but whatever.

Grapplejack posted:

the two sides of emotional intelligence, in tweet form.

baka kaba posted:

Personally I don't think all capital-G Gamers are toxic, but there's absolutely an extant toxic, exclusionary culture that tends to pull people in and radicalise them, while driving away people who are uncomfortable with those attitudes.

baka kaba posted:

And yeah, every subculture has some true fan gatekeepers who think the scene belongs to them and they get to decide what's acceptable and who gets driven out. That's... usually bad? Throw in the competitive aspect of gaming and the anonymity and holy moly

Kai Tave posted:

I'm not really sure how anybody can honestly look at the state of gaming and say it's on some kind of downward slide unless they're being disingenuous or have brainworms (or both). Even discounting AAA big budget open world shooters there are more games available than anybody could possibly hope to finish in their lifetime before they die, in a variety of styles and genres. The state of AAA gaming is not the state of gaming as a whole.

quote:

I am not a boy, but I had a boyhood. I was, and am, made to live as a boy and I cannot suspend the perspective that gave me and join in when it’s time to fluster one of those clueless fuckers into anger by calling him a fuckboi and then tell him his anger proves he’s a fuckboi, or to humiliate one with an OKCupid screenshot because we’ve willfully conflated the clumsy ones with the threatening ones so we can grab those solidarity faves. It’s hosed up. It has metastasized.
More than a few out transwomen have told me, privately, they they are uncomfortable with these things, but are afraid that speaking up about it would cause ciswomen to like and trust them less. “I play along,” one of them told me, “because in the queer community the only people who defend cisboys are cisboys. I don’t want to give up finally being read as a girl .”

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Yeah, I know. My current theory is that it's men who use feminism as their brand who are actually the problem. There have been so drat many men who earned major brownie points as Woke Feminist Allies and turned out to be using that for power.

Ariong posted:

Yeah, I’m at the point now where I will not identify myself as a feminist unless someone explicitly asks. Not because I’m ashamed of it of course, but because at this point the “male feminist” identifier has an extremely strong correlation with dudes who turn out to be abusers.



Exactly! When it’s in their Twiter bio, I always think it’s only a matter of time before something comes out. It’s kind of a shame, but really, the solution is simple. Just be a feminist without loudly announcing that you are one to everyone you meet. That’s what I was doing anyway. vOv

EDIT: Well, excluding this post obviously. HEY LADIES, MALE FEMINIST HERE! TREAT PLEASE!

The_White_Crane posted:

WRT the discussion earlier about the "all men are trash" rhetoric, I want to link this:

I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out.


And I'll repeat what I said the last time I saw this discussion:
As an AMAB non-binary person, I can never escape the awareness that strangers will usually perceive me as a man. And every time I find myself in a space where people are talking about “how awful men are”, even if they know I’m not a man, and therefore, obviously, don’t mean me, I think: but what about the group next door? The group who are saying the same things, but who I’m not out to?

Every time I hear someone say "men are trash", it makes me feel dysphoric and ashamed.

So please, those of you who think, "Oh, it's okay, men are a group with social power, we're punching up!" consider that sweeping statements, much like sweeping punches, often hurt people you're not aiming for.

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Yeah, I know. My current theory is that it's men who use feminism as their brand who are actually the problem. There have been so drat many men who earned major brownie points as Woke Feminist Allies and turned out to be using that for power.

Pyromancer posted:

Why do men applying to join our "all men are trash!" club turn out to be self-hating weirdos or creeps with ulterior motives?

StabMasterArson posted:

Pollyanna posted:

Research is hard guys.

Endorph posted:

EimiYoshikawa posted:

Yeah, he's been working to infiltrate imgur as the harmless-seeming 'haha, so true' guy for a while now, but he's a 100% straight up literal nazi transphobic homophobic e-coli piece of poo poo. themoreyouknow.jpg

Endorph posted:

this is my favorite stonetoss because its so stupid

StabMasterArson posted:

Sorry last one cos it seemed kinda fitting

AngryRobotsInc posted:

And then he gets huffy people call him a bigot!

StabMasterArson posted:

SA is incredibly woke now, to the point where I kind of understand why Lowtax doesnt read it

docbeard posted:

Well, thank heavens that when it was pointed out that this cartoonist is a literal no-foolin' Nazi people stopped posting his work instead of posting like ten times more of it.