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Detective No. 27 posted:Transporters blessed the universe with a second, even hornier Riker, so they're alright in my book. Presumably he had the same contempt for sotting down like everyone else (And yes I know why he did that)
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Sep 6, 2019 13:01
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Coucho Marx posted:Well, there was that one time where it went rather less well. There was another notable incident, but it was resolved fairly quickly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etY7kbRRQ_c I never really cared about Star Trek, but isn't it canon that transporters create a perfect, 1:1 replica of the person, killing the original or was that just a fan theory?
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Sep 6, 2019 14:33
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OutOfPrint posted:There was another notable incident, but it was resolved fairly quickly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etY7kbRRQ_c There probably isn't canon, but that's basically your only option.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:40
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OutOfPrint posted:I never really cared about Star Trek, but isn't it canon that transporters create a perfect, 1:1 replica of the person, killing the original or was that just a fan theory? People are shown to be conscious through the entire thing. But they're space magic that works however the episode needs them to work.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:43
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Scotty spent 70 years trapped as atoms between TOS and when they found him in TNG. That must have been hell.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:09
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The 1:1 replica is just an interesting question on the nature of life. If your original conscience is replaced by an exact replica are you truly dead or alive. And if you figured out that terrible secret, but only after you’d teleported a dozen times, what does that mean for the 13th iteration of your conscience being. At what point do you just say, “gently caress it, teleporting is still a quicker way to travel and I’m not going to know the difference anyway.” It’d be better if each new subatomic reconstruction was slightly worse than the prior one. Sisko got all the crawfish he ever wanted, but now he cleans the space station instead of running it.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:12
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Detective No. 27 posted:Scotty spent 70 years trapped as atoms between TOS and when they found him in TNG. That must have been hell. It's longer than you think, Dad! It's longer than you think!
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Sep 6, 2019 15:24
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ArcMage posted:There probably isn't canon, but that's basically your only option. I read a short sci-fi story (can't remember the author) that was based on this concept: you strapped them into the machine, hit the button and they were duplicated at the destination. Then, when you received a confirmation of a successful transmission, the machine vaporised the original person. If the send failed, they had to wait in the machine until you hit 'resend' The story was based on the ethics of what happens if the machine gets an incorrect 'failure to receive' response and the person gets out the machine. Then you have 2 copies of the same person. Is Scotty now morally obliged to hit one of them on the head with a space-spanner?
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Sep 6, 2019 15:36
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That's basically the plot of The Prestige.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:59
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hyperhazard posted:That's basically the plot of Multiplicity.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:44
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Detective No. 27 posted:Scotty spent 70 years trapped as atoms between TOS and when they found him in TNG. That must have been hell. Mad Hamish posted:It's longer than you think, Dad! It's longer than you think! a good savvy engineer like scotty either liquored himself up or napped during teleport 
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Sep 6, 2019 16:46
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OutOfPrint posted:There was another notable incident, but it was resolved fairly quickly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etY7kbRRQ_c That's actually an overall discussion not specific to Star Trek but about teleportation in general. It gets into metaphysical stuff like does the soul exist or not and what happens to it when you teleport. It gets into really base life stuff as well; like just what the gently caress even is a human? Is it just a random ape-shaped collection of fundamental particles that exists for what amounts to no time at all or is it the vessel for the soul? Star Trek dealt with that in TNG by talking about stuff like consciousness streams and staying kind of conscious when in the beam. Plus... Doctor Spaceman posted:People are shown to be conscious through the entire thing. This is actually one of the differences between Star Trek and Star Wars; Star Trek did a lot of  to try to explain how things worked and why things were the way they were. Star Wars just goes "it's magic I ain't gotta explain poo poo." There's space wizards because space wizards are rad as hell.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:51
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Star Wars is straight up fantasy, just with lasers and space magic and stuff. It's not really sci-fi at all (this isn't a criticism)
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Sep 6, 2019 16:56
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It's so difficult to compare Star Wars and Star Trek technological levels. There's that YouTube parody showing the Enterprise tech kicking Star Destroyer asses, but a snot-nosed podracing twat built a robot that the Federation's brightest minds barely have the resources to construct. You'd think the process of deconstructing and reconstructing a person during teleportation would be a good time to check for any deviations or problems. Just keep a supply of medical grade atoms that you can add to the transmission. Don't worry about that birth defect, we'll fix it in post-production.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:58
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Star trek is fantasy by the same criteria, spock is a wizard with magic powers
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Sep 6, 2019 16:59
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True enough but it at least gestures towards traditional sci-fi questions and themes There'll never be a Star Wars version of Measure of a Man or something
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Sep 6, 2019 17:01
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I forget? Is Q a wizard? Star Trek even has their Anakin in the form of Wesley Crusher. Battlestar Galactica is better. They at least explain it with religion.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:02
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Q is Q. He and his kind exist beyond reality, so they can manipulate it like we manipulate action figures in a playset.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:08
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Krispy Wafer posted:You'd think the process of deconstructing and reconstructing a person during teleportation would be a good time to check for any deviations or problems. Just keep a supply of medical grade atoms that you can add to the transmission. Don't worry about that birth defect, we'll fix it in post-production. Transporters have that kind of thing, they just don't work most of the time for plot reasons.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:08
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Barry Foster posted:True enough but it at least gestures towards traditional sci-fi questions and themes There probably is somewhere in the EU
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Sep 6, 2019 17:18
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Transporters have that kind of thing, they just don't work most of the time for plot reasons. So that's why it's not a matter of "Put Picard through the telebuffer and just insert non-Iruomote Syndrome brain particles into the stream" to fix 99% of diseases.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:43
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Krispy Wafer posted:It's so difficult to compare Star Wars and Star Trek technological levels. There's that YouTube parody showing the Enterprise tech kicking Star Destroyer asses, but a snot-nosed podracing twat built a robot that the Federation's brightest minds barely have the resources to construct. I don't know if we're thinking of the same video but there's one floating around where the Enterprise meets a Star Destroyer and nothing the Destroyer throws gets past the Enterprise's shields so Vader just Force-chokes them all to death.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:52
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duck trucker posted:I don't know if we're thinking of the same video but there's one floating around where the Enterprise meets a Star Destroyer and nothing the Destroyer throws gets past the Enterprise's shields so Vader just Force-chokes them all to death. That would take days, as well as not work on Data. Doesn't it also require line-of-sight? I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:03
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Vader choked some one through a video screen once. If he knows where you are, he can presumably choke you.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:07
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If Vader is in that mirror funhouse from the second John Wick movie, does he have to pick Wick out or can he just pinch his fingers at a reflection?
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Sep 6, 2019 18:13
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marshmallow creep posted:Vader choked some one through a video screen once. If he knows where you are, he can presumably choke you. He can't actually choke anyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jdQqjcsfC8
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Sep 6, 2019 18:21
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Why doesn't he just sit around all day choking all known Rebels? He could wipe out the Rebellion over a long weekend.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:25
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Beachcomber posted:That would take days, as well as not work on Data. Doesn't it also require line-of-sight? marshmallow creep posted:Vader choked some one through a video screen once. If he knows where you are, he can presumably choke you. Both ships were talking to each other on-screen. 
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Sep 6, 2019 18:25
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New Leaf posted:Why doesn't he just sit around all day choking all known Rebels? He could wipe out the Rebellion over a long weekend. No one in the rebellion will answer his calls.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:29
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Krispy Wafer posted:I forget? Is Q a wizard? The Q are comparable to gods, really. They're nearly omnipotent and can just change things like the gravitational constant whenever they feel like it. as to what they actually are human minds can't really comprehend it. What you see in Q when he shows up is a renegade Q that started actually paying attention which Q weren't supposed to do. What you see is Q picking a form that people would understand. It's more of a projection of a god-like being than anything. As to just what they are and how they work it's never really explained. They're just...the Q. What they do isn't really magic in that it works within the mechanical constraints of the universe. It just looks like magic because it involves forces humanity can't understand. They can't actually violate the laws of physics but they can actually change what those laws are. They rarely bother as they've already seen every possible permutation anyway.
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Sep 6, 2019 19:09
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The Q are comparable to gods, really. They're nearly omnipotent and can just change things like the gravitational constant whenever they feel like it. as to what they actually are human minds can't really comprehend it. What you see in Q when he shows up is a renegade Q that started actually paying attention which Q weren't supposed to do. What you see is Q picking a form that people would understand. It's more of a projection of a god-like being than anything. As to just what they are and how they work it's never really explained. They're just...the Q. What they do isn't really magic in that it works within the mechanical constraints of the universe. It just looks like magic because it involves forces humanity can't understand. They can't actually violate the laws of physics but they can actually change what those laws are. They rarely bother as they've already seen every possible permutation anyway. for a second I got confused and thought this was the /pol/ meme Q and it made complete sense.
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Sep 6, 2019 19:10
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The Q are comparable to gods, really. They're nearly omnipotent and can just change things like the gravitational constant whenever they feel like it. as to what they actually are human minds can't really comprehend it. What you see in Q when he shows up is a renegade Q that started actually paying attention which Q weren't supposed to do. What you see is Q picking a form that people would understand. It's more of a projection of a god-like being than anything. As to just what they are and how they work it's never really explained. They're just...the Q. What they do isn't really magic in that it works within the mechanical constraints of the universe. It just looks like magic because it involves forces humanity can't understand. They can't actually violate the laws of physics but they can actually change what those laws are. They rarely bother as they've already seen every possible permutation anyway. Was it ever explained what history Guinan and Q had with each other, and why Q was tiptoeing around her?
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Sep 6, 2019 19:13
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I thought the implication was Guinan was another different higher dimensional being
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Sep 6, 2019 19:29
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Scaramouche posted:I thought the implication was Guinan was another different higher dimensional being No, Guinan was a refugee from a long-lived race that got mostly annihilated by the Borg. Her main deal is being wise because of being like a thousand years old or something. My memory is kinda fuzzy but I definitely remember the Borg thing since it comes up in the episode where Q and the Borg are introduced.
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Sep 6, 2019 19:37
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Guinan has some kind of power, she throws her hands up like she's about to put a hex on Q at one point. I always wondered what she was going to do with that
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Sep 6, 2019 19:42
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El Aurians also seem to be perceptive to how reality works in general - Guinan notes the changes to the timeline in Yesterday’s Enterprise, and could communicate through the Nexus to Picard in Generations. They may also possess some level of empathic or telepathic skill - Soran’s barb to Picard in Generations of “Time is the fire in which we burn” seems especially sharp since Picard’s brother and his family had just died in a house fire. An El Aurian also showed up as a con man on DS9, aides by a device that he had acquired that could manipulate probability. Both skills would probably make the Q a little wary, since the El Aurians would be particularly good at seeing through their bullshit.
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Sep 6, 2019 19:56
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And in "Yesterday's Enterprise" she knew that something was off, then deduced they were in an alternate timeline and that Tasha Yar is dead in the normal timeline. Edit: ^ ^ ^ drat it! Beaten by a hair, but what he said. ^ ^ ^
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Sep 6, 2019 19:57
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Tunicate posted:Star trek is fantasy by the same criteria, spock is a wizard with magic powers Someone post the TAS gif
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Sep 6, 2019 20:08
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DrBouvenstein posted:And in "Yesterday's Enterprise" she knew that something was off, then deduced they were in an alternate timeline and that Tasha Yar is dead in the normal timeline. I wake up in 2019 and look at the news and I know something is off, but that doesn't mean I have super powers.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:16
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Der Kyhe posted:Was it ever explained what history Guinan and Q had with each other, and why Q was tiptoeing around her? Not really. Guinan herself was left mostly mysterious and the race she came from is mostly dead because the Borg happened to them. For the most part they fit the stereotype of ancient people who had seen this poo poo before and knew how it would play out. This is why the matronly old bartender character worked so well; she was content to live a relatively simple life but if you heard her talk for like five seconds you'd realize that she was wicked smart, absurdly wise, and would give you best advice you've ever heard in like five words. As to what transpired between the two that never really does get explained; raising her hands might have been a totally empty thread. Maybe she knew something or had some behind the scenes strings she could pull to gently caress with Q. It's entirely possible that El-Aurians did have powers they never let on to that even the Q respected. Granted it's also possible that their history included the other Q telling Q not to mess with her/her race so she knew there was nothing he could actually do to her without pissing off every other Q in the process. It worked as a great little storytelling moment as it became very clear very fast that the Enterprise crew was dealing with ancient things centuries older than the Federation. That poo poo dated back to before humanity could even go to the moon let alone leave the solar system.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:43
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