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Unlucky7 posted:I don’t know if this has been mentioned but Jeremy Soule lawyered up and send Nathalie Lawhead a cease and desist that feels like a dumb move.
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Sep 6, 2019 21:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:this guy is a loving nazi rear end in a top hat and should eat poo poo, but i think this comic does sorta touch on a thing i have noticed at times. some of the sex monsters end up being those white guys who pretend to be good allies and go super overboard with it to cover their own gross behavior. farci and wheadon and to an extent alec are the ones i can think off. that doesn't mean "hurr progressive politics bad" it just means assholes and predators can co-opt to use as cover just like any other idea. what makes me sad is how long these monsters last and are active, because people will look the other way as long as they say the right poo poo. its easy to out the alt right predators because half the time they brag about the poo poo openly. I don’t blame StabArsonMan for posting it because it’s the only comic out of that guy’s portfolio that can be interpreted in a way that I agree with. Because I looked up the artist’s other stuff now I get that his intent was “sometimes predators pretend to be feminists therefore no male feminists are trustworthy” but before I had any context I took it as “sometimes predators pretend to be feminists therefore not all male feminists are trustworthy”
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Sep 6, 2019 22:21
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Steve Yun posted:I don’t blame StabArsonMan for posting it because it’s the only comic out of that guy’s portfolio that can be interpreted in a way that I agree with. this. i admit i am cis white dude who is progressive who has physical disabilities. but i honest to god don't just any woke white dudes who tries to be super woke and into being a twitter warrior or critic. i am sure most are fine, but i just don't trust them for various reasons. also i don't blame other progressives for not trusting me. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 22:23
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is she saying that zach's apology thing was fake or insincere? or is this just about his friend trying to cover for him
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Sep 6, 2019 22:29
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Grapplejack posted:is she saying that zach's apology thing was fake or insincere? or is this just about his friend trying to cover for him yes.
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Sep 6, 2019 22:30
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Steve Yun posted:I don’t blame StabArsonMan for posting it because it’s the only comic out of that guy’s portfolio that can be interpreted in a way that I agree with. Yeah, it's a deliberate tactic; they make some comics that are innocuous (or subtle enough that people don't immediately realize the true message) so that people will spread them around, then they make others promoting poo poo like holocaust denial. That's why it's important to call out the comics when they get shared. That doesn't necessarily mean that the person sharing it is aware of their true nature. Regarding that legal threat from Soule, is that likely to go anywhere?
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Sep 6, 2019 22:41
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ponzicar posted:Regarding that legal threat from Soule, is that likely to go anywhere?
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Sep 6, 2019 22:45
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On the advice of my attorney, I hereby retract my earlier statement suggesting that Mr. Soule should be hauling garbage. It was wrong and I apologize for misspeaking. What I meant to say is that Mr. Soule should be hauled away AS garbage.
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Sep 6, 2019 22:46
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Legally, I am not permitted to say that Jeremy Soule is the worst person in the world. It would open me up to serious legal consequences to say that he is like if Hitler and King Leopold had a baby which was then raised by Satan. For this reason, I have no choice but to remain silent on the topic of whether God created Jeremy Soule because they thought that the original horsemen of the apocalypse were too pleasant.
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Sep 6, 2019 22:53
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these things always make me reflect back on my less fabulous social interactions with women and how I was probably creepy or douchey or aggressive and it makes me feel bad and want to do better in the future I'm not sure why I felt this was relevant but it's out there Charlie Bobson fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 23:02
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Dapper_Swindler posted:that feels like a dumb move. It’s fine, but she needs legal counsel. Libel is where whether it’s true matters, which they haven’t gone for, but defamation concentrates on ‘harm’, which is a distinction that earlier conversation about the courts only working for a certain segment of the population come in, but the distinction is lawyers and the rest of us.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:10
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Endorph posted:capitalism makes everyone lose at life, depressed, lonely young men often arent depressed and lonely by their own fault. that doesnt excuse victimizing random women or anything but 'lost at life' is toxic rhetoric Nah. Capitalism has done tons of incredibly bad things, but grinding up pathetic white masculinity is one for the angels. I say this as a cis white dude (though I'm not straight), because that manly man, work with your hands, feel nothing bullshit has done more to hurt me than anything else out there. Letting it and its adherents disappear will be nothing but positive for the world. Best part is, all these guys could be fine if they acted 70% less creepy with women and didn't have some inflated standard where they can only date HB10/10 virgins. They just think that they should never have to settle, and women as whole prefer the default state of single over the net negative of having them in their lives.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:14
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I like something awful because people who understand these things more than my dumb rural Kansas ADHD rear end write good and thoughtful posts that help me grasp these sensitive and complex issues
Charlie Bobson fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 23:29
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Charlie Bobson posted:these things always make me reflect back on my less fabulous social interactions with women and how I was probably creepy or douchey or aggressive and it makes me feel bad and want to do better in the future Do better in future bud! You can do it.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:37
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graventy posted:It's this entirely. It's all about power. I don't think they have either overall, but they have failed in the AAA space. That's a factor of the huge budgets making devs a lot more risk averse, and needing to create a certain kind of loop to continue to suck money out of addicted players (aka "whales", though this is an awful term). It's not people have worse taste, it's just that's less money in making a game you buy once than one you are continually goaded into pay microtransactions for. That's why those genres aren't in the AAA space, not "the mechanics are bad" like was suggested in the post I was responding to. It's a decision based on making all the money instead of some of it while still being profitable. Chasing the biggest possible pot versus some smaller but less competitive ones is one of those things late capitalism is bad at, and games are just the easiest example for all of us to see.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:38
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rkajdi posted:Nah. Capitalism has done tons of incredibly bad things, but grinding up pathetic white masculinity is one for the angels. I say this as a cis white dude (though I'm not straight), because that manly man, work with your hands, feel nothing bullshit has done more to hurt me than anything else out there. Letting it and its adherents disappear will be nothing but positive for the world. Like people aren't born with the hate women gene, the reason people go to such extremes is because they feel so frustrated and broken down in every other aspect of their lives. And that isn't an excuse for any of it, but going 'this is good, actually,' isn't a solution for that track. Endorph fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 23:38
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Charlie Bobson posted:these things always make me reflect back on my less fabulous social interactions with women and how I was probably creepy or douchey or aggressive and it makes me feel bad and want to do better in the future Being able to acknowledge past faults, and attempting to work past them takes you leaps and bounds ahead of those who are discussed here.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:39
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think this comic does sorta touch on a thing i have noticed at times. some of the sex monsters end up being those white guys who pretend to be good allies and go super overboard with it to cover their own gross behavior. This isn't a novel observation at all, both because that is a strategy willfully-malicious predators use to snare people, but also because it's just true of any group of people. Some feminists are rapists. Some queers are thieves. Some autistic people are murderers. Why? Because they're people, and no one identity variable is capable of fully explaining poo poo like violent crime. It doesn't mean those things even necessarily have a single thing to do with each other. You're not wrong, I just don't know why this observation is anything special or useful. It's like saying there's assholes on every side of a debate without specifying percentages or what you mean by "assholes". Of course there are, there's assholes everywhere.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:44
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:This isn't a novel observation at all, both because that is a strategy willfully-malicious predators use to snare people, but also because it's just true of any group of people. Some feminists are rapists. Some queers are thieves. Some autistic people are murderers. Why? Because they're people, and no one identity variable is capable of fully explaining poo poo like violent crime. It doesn't mean those things even necessarily have a single thing to do with each other.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:48
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:This isn't a novel observation at all, both because that is a strategy willfully-malicious predators use to snare people, but also because it's just true of any group of people. Some feminists are rapists. Some queers are thieves. Some autistic people are murderers. Why? Because they're people, and no one identity variable is capable of fully explaining poo poo like violent crime. It doesn't mean those things even necessarily have a single thing to do with each other. i wasn't saying its unique thought and that comic guy is still a lovely monster. i just feel like it needed to be said because i see people dance around it at times. Endorph posted:Because the thing that these people are pretending at (being feminist) is specifically tied into the things they're doing (preying on women) instead of just being a generic bad thing. They use the veneer to infiltrate spaces where women feel safe and then prey on them. Autistic people aren't especially known for being non-murder-y, and queer people aren't known for not stealing your radios. Autistic people don't use the power of their autism in order to get close to people in a space where they feel less likely to be murdered. this too.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:51
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The_White_Crane posted:WRT the discussion earlier about the "all men are trash" rhetoric, I want to link this: This was very insightful.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:01
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I think part of the point of these labels/identities is to draw attention to and empower the people who use them. So to me it feels very insincere and self aggrandizing when people in a position of power or privilege use them. Straight white mostly cis boys like me are not exactly bereft of acceptance and attention, whereas a Hispanic trans girl is very much deprived.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:11
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Endorph posted:Because the thing that these people are pretending at (being feminist) is specifically tied into the things they're doing (preying on women) instead of just being a generic bad thing. They use the veneer to infiltrate spaces where women feel safe and then prey on them. The reason that comic is garbage is because the underlying implication is men can't be feminists, anyone who acts like they are is just a predator pretending. The reality is nearly everyone fails to live up to their own ideals in some way and there's a huge variety in how far they fall short and how they react to falling short and whether they even care. Normal good people see their mistakes, and try to minimize them going forward, make amends and make efforts to be better. Predators are inherently selfish, and so when they fail to live up to their ideals they either deny it to themselves, or make excuses why that doesn't count or why they're personally an exception. None of that means that they're faking their ideals, they just place themselves above their ideals. There are sociopaths who do fake and infiltrate, but they are a small minority. The distinction is important not because either one is a valid excuse for their horrible actions, but because saying someone like Joss Whedon is a fake feminist, instead of a feminist who is also a lovely person who maybe doesn't really understand feminism and certainly doesn't live up to it, gives personal cover to all the other genuinely lovely self identifying feminists. Instead of thinking "hmm, I'm also a male feminist and I've done some lovely things, I should consider those things I've done and how I live up to my own ideals" they think "well I know what I believe, and my feminism even if it's not perfect is genuine, so obviously I'm not a predator because I'm not fake."
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Sep 7, 2019 00:12
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rkajdi posted:I don't think they have either overall, but they have failed in the AAA space. That's a factor of the huge budgets making devs a lot more risk averse, and needing to create a certain kind of loop to continue to suck money out of addicted players (aka "whales", though this is an awful term). AAA-gaming isn't about monetisation/"casinos for pre-teens" any more than it was about Woozy's "open-world action game with RPG elements". At various times AAA-gaming has described: graphics-demo Quake clones; WW2 or modern military shooters; cover shooters; heavy use of cinematics; open-world mechanics; multiplayer mechanics; RPG mechanics; games-as-service. The common thread is that these trends are identified as "the next big thing" and get money poured into them on a massive scale, with commensurate results. But even these trends are temporary and pass with time - now Gears 5 is the throwback! The fading (not failure) of genres like the RTS, the wRPG etc. doesn't have a lot to do with AAA production - I would suggest many genres were dwindling in prominence before the mid-00s, when AAA games really took off. "Inherent flaws" is less about how levelling up is a bad mechanic (in this context, surely a positive? it's that Skinner-box effect that brought RPG elements into your Call of Dutys and Assassin's Creeds) and more about how the base attributes of those genres have made them obsolete or limited appeal. You used to play point-and-click adventure games because, despite the pixelbitching, the linearity, the nonsensical moon-logic, that was the only way to get a developed narrative in your game; when technology advanced enough that cinematics and in-engine cutscenes were possible in other genres, when design philosophies emerged that integrated narrative into the game in new ways, then point-and-click games found themselves without an ecological niche. See also interactive fiction for an even earlier example. It's not that these genres are bad, it's that the medium and the audience as a whole changed around them, inevitably so. But this is a largely academic tangent - we already know grognard communities are full of alt-right bigots, and we know modern bigots have persecution complexes and a fear of change.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:17
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:Most of them aren't pretending, at least not consciously. They just have a different idea of what feminism is, what consent is and/or how important it is for them to live up to their own ideals. Most of them are rear end in a top hat hypocrites, but they aren't infiltrating feminism or pretending that they believe women should be empowered. Their though process is probably more like "of course I believe women should have equal pay and equal rights and sexual freedom. And since I'm so great, they will of course use that sexual freedom to have sex with me." I assume it's more complex than that, but they do superficially believe themselves to be feminist, and may even be so in many aspects, they just don't see and/or care that their actions don't follow in other aspects. this. i don't think any of those said creeps are fakers. they are just hypocrites and do mental gymnastics that allow themselves to do bad poo poo. like whedon and farci and probably others we don't know about.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:18
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Lt. Danger posted:AAA-gaming isn't about monetisation/"casinos for pre-teens" any more than it was about Woozy's "open-world action game with RPG elements". At various times AAA-gaming has described: graphics-demo Quake clones; WW2 or modern military shooters; cover shooters; heavy use of cinematics; open-world mechanics; multiplayer mechanics; RPG mechanics; games-as-service. The common thread is that these trends are identified as "the next big thing" and get money poured into them on a massive scale, with commeasurate results. But even these trends are temporary and pass with time - now Gears 5 is the throwback! i think its also some genres and such fade and revive all the time. like for a long time crpgs were mostly dead or super nich. now a bunch of the best games in the last few years are those CRPGs and old CRPGs are getting super remaster ports to consoles. sam and max adventure games took off big with walking dead and are still decently strong even after tell tale dies.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:21
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i think labeling these people as lovely rear end in a top hat feminists rather than not an actual feminist would be cool it might lend some weight to the label i think and maybe prevent people from going "nuh uh, im feminist because i check these boxes therefore i am justified and good." imo theres a big difference between being a failed lovely thing and not a thing at all. i'd much rather be described as "not an entrepreneur" rather than a "failed idiot entrepreneur." i'm very chatty and dumb i apologize
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Sep 7, 2019 00:29
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Wow, it hurt to read that, The_White_Crane. Thanks. (Not just hurt in a "wow this is a sad story" way, but hurt in a "wow, me, personally, I am being a jerk and need to stop" way.)
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Sep 7, 2019 00:49
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Charlie Bobson posted:these things always make me reflect back on my less fabulous social interactions with women and how I was probably creepy or douchey or aggressive and it makes me feel bad and want to do better in the future I think that's pretty healthy - it's easy to assume that because you have good intentions you're doing everything right, but nobody's perfect and there's always ways you can improve. Being mindful is good, and being able to own up to stuff and do better instead of getting defensive is really important!
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Sep 7, 2019 00:55
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Lt. Danger posted:AAA-gaming isn't about monetisation/"casinos for pre-teens" any more than it was about Woozy's "open-world action game with RPG elements". At various times AAA-gaming has described: graphics-demo Quake clones; WW2 or modern military shooters; cover shooters; heavy use of cinematics; open-world mechanics; multiplayer mechanics; RPG mechanics; games-as-service. The common thread is that these trends are identified as "the next big thing" and get money poured into them on a massive scale, with commensurate results. But even these trends are temporary and pass with time - now Gears 5 is the throwback! There's a pretty big gulf between the 3rd party AAA stuff and 1st/2nd party stuff, I admit. But in the space of the former, you have a lot of games packed to brim with gambling mechanics, and it's a huge issue since these games are rated and marketed to kids. It's also a big deal when they are marketed at adults, since these are digital casinos in some form (some literally) that don't have any of the restrictions and regulations on them that normal casinos do. Microtransactions and loot boxes have really increased the expected level of profit (by preying on addicts and children in ways a normal gambling instituion couldn't) out of AAA 3rd party games to the point where a lot of genres get crowded out. See the whole EA "single player is dead" thing, because single player games are much harder to get extra monetization out of like you can in multi-player games. Again this is specifically not the fault of women or a bigger audience, but instead the more standard short-sighted corporate greed. Of course the idiot manchildren in the core gamer demo blame women and minorities, because that's who they've been primed to hate by the various alt-right grifters.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:59
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I disappear from the forums for a bit and this is what I come back to. I can't get away from this crap at all anymore, can I? It follows you everywhere you go. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 7, 2019 01:02
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Backhand posted:I disappear from the forums for a bit and this is what I come back to. Not everything is about you.
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Sep 7, 2019 01:03
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Backhand posted:I disappear from the forums for a bit and this is what I come back to. I mean if you come into a thread with this title, you probably can't get away from it, no.
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Sep 7, 2019 01:04
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Yeah, thanks.
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Sep 7, 2019 01:05
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Backhand posted:I disappear from the forums for a bit and this is what I come back to. Now imagine if you were someone who had to deal with being harassed and humiliated every day! Sure sucks, doesn't it?
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Sep 7, 2019 01:06
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Grapplejack posted:is she saying that zach's apology thing was fake or insincere? or is this just about his friend trying to cover for him Both, as mentioned. It's really conspicuously not apologizing for the abuse, just for any damage it might have subsequently done to her career -- which is a real issue, but is way more minor than the rest. Even if we assume complete sincerity, it still displays massive privilege. This is something where he can say "oh, geez, what an rear end in a top hat I was!" after ruining someone's life and get backpats for Being Better Now; it's a part of his past he can mostly ignore and is unlikely to cause major repercussions for him, even in the current environment. He clearly hasn't been carrying this around or really had to live with it, unlike the person he hurt.
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Sep 7, 2019 01:08
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Guys, help! I actively clicked on a topic I'm sick of hearing about! I just can't get away from it!
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Sep 7, 2019 01:09
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Furthermore, she's said in one of her linked essays that apparently he's been telling other people about how much he regrets what he did to his wife, and how much he's changing in therapy ... but he's never made the effort to apologize to her directly.
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Sep 7, 2019 01:13
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I can't think of a way to get away from this topic other than shutting off my computer and spending some time outside. In other words, it's completely impossible. Anyway, thanks for the good read The_White_Crane. I think I'm going to stop saying that people i don't like look like thumbs. Ariong fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 01:14
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Lt. Danger posted:AAA-gaming isn't about monetisation/"casinos for pre-teens" any more than it was about Woozy's "open-world action game with RPG elements". At various times AAA-gaming has described: graphics-demo Quake clones; WW2 or modern military shooters; cover shooters; heavy use of cinematics; open-world mechanics; multiplayer mechanics; RPG mechanics; games-as-service. The common thread is that these trends are identified as "the next big thing" and get money poured into them on a massive scale, with commensurate results. But even these trends are temporary and pass with time - now Gears 5 is the throwback!
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