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DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

So did anyone else check out LackingSaint's videos on cops in media because that's been a lot of fun (PS, that second Dirty Harry film is trash).

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Archer666
Dec 27, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Althvag63pw

Michael Saba gives a history lesson on Japanese pop and its influences on the modern music genre called future funk.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Alaois posted:

I'm pretty sure everyone who has made a children's cartoon in the past 30 years is some kind of sex creep

I feel like I'm testing my luck saying this, but I haven't heard anything bad about Jhonen Vasquez, and I feel like if he'd done anything untoward it would have come out by now

Yet another reason why Invader Zim stands head and shoulders above most cartoons

Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Yet another reason why Invader Zim stands head and shoulders above most cartoons

Extremely debatable.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

I feel like I'm testing my luck saying this, but I haven't heard anything bad about Jhonen Vasquez, and I feel like if he'd done anything untoward it would have come out by now

Yet another reason why Invader Zim stands head and shoulders above most cartoons

I feel like he lets the crazy show through enough that he's probably not hiding anything untoward, if that makes sense.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

Zim's a smarter cartoon than people tend to give it credit for.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Neo_Crimson posted:

Extremely debatable.

i mean sure if you're dumb and wrong

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Roth posted:

MLP really didn't deserve the kind of fanbase it got. A pretty fun show just forever tainted for most people.

You say this like there is a show that did deserve the MLP fandom.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



squidbillies?

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i mean sure if you're dumb and wrong

This forever.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Roth posted:

Zim's a smarter cartoon than people tend to give it credit for.

it was also a huge, huge influence on a very large chunk of the western TV animation that came after it, to an extent where I'd very easily put it in the same breath as Simpsons or Dragon Ball

in a Zim-free alternate universe, Rebecca Sugar would probably be a CPA or something, Justin Roiland wouldn't have a career, and Avatar: The Last Airbender just straight up wouldn't exist, bare minimum

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

RareAcumen posted:

You say this like there is a show that did deserve the MLP fandom.

I can't even think of any as a joke

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



Archer666 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Althvag63pw

Michael Saba gives a history lesson on Japanese pop and its influences on the modern music genre called future funk.
wait, is there future funk that isn't explicitly city pop inspired?

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Roth posted:

I can't even think of any as a joke
There’s like 15 no-effort irony-poisoned cartoons on Adult Swim that could qualify.

stillvisions
Oct 15, 2014

I really should have come up with something better before spending five bucks on this.

Mokinokaro posted:

Kyle Kallgren (hope I'm spelling that right) pulled his Cinema Antifa videos for his personal health thanks to the fascist hate mob.

MonsieurChoc posted:

But... it was a really good video.

God dammit.

He had a post about making revisions to it because people had come up with micro-arguments that his definition was too broad, which amounts to him basically receiving endless Sealioning and "well, actually, using your definition we can define -insert good thing- as fascism". It was a great video and a valiant effort, but bad-faith arguments are a force to be reckoned with, unfortunately.

Sarcopenia
May 14, 2014
Sooo do you have to have seen this show before the age of 15 to get what's so great about it? Like I saw it in my teens and remember it as okay but super annoying but some people treat it like the holy grail of 2000s animation and I super don't get that.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

in a Zim-free alternate universe, Rebecca Sugar would probably be a CPA or something, Justin Roiland wouldn't have a career, and Avatar: The Last Airbender just straight up wouldn't exist, bare minimum
Like please explain this?

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

Pants Donkey posted:

There’s like 15 no-effort irony-poisoned cartoons on Adult Swim that could qualify.

But then they get the attention

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Sarcopenia posted:

Like please explain this?

the one I remember is that Rebecca Sugar got her start/attention from writing Invader Zim fanfiction

Sarcopenia
May 14, 2014

CYBEReris posted:

the one I remember is that Rebecca Sugar got her start/attention from writing Invader Zim fanfiction
Aaah I now understand why loathing that Peridot character from SU felt strangely familiar.
The only thing I knew about Sugar's past dablings was the Simpsons comic and the Ed, Ed and Eddy yaoi. But she honestly seems way more inspired by anime so I still don't get how that makes Zim the cornerstone of animation today.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

Oh No! It's another video on YouTube burnout but this time it's from Patrick (H) Willems and it revolves around his relationship with Kiki's Delivery Service.

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

Sarcopenia posted:

Aaah I now understand why loathing that Peridot character from SU felt strangely familiar.
The only thing I knew about Sugar's past dablings was the Simpsons comic and the Ed, Ed and Eddy yaoi. But she honestly seems way more inspired by anime so I still don't get how that makes Zim the cornerstone of animation today.

I think she semi-signaled that she was a /co/ resident one time so I think it's fair to say she got inspiration from a bunch of different places.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Sarcopenia posted:

Like please explain this?

Rebecca Sugar got her start in art/writing doing Zim fan poo poo and it's pretty likely she wouldn't be an artist/writer otherwise

Justin Roiland hasn't openly acknowledged it the way Sugar has, but it's super obvious in his voice acting style and sense of humor

Avatar: TLA literally 100% exists because Zim's art director went "oh poo poo I'm gonna be unemployed" after that show got cancelled and called up a college buddy to make a pitch together

Grassy Knowles
Apr 4, 2003

"The original Terminator was a gritty fucking AMAZING piece of sci-fi. Gritty fucking rock-hard MURDER!"

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Rebecca Sugar got her start in art/writing doing Zim fan poo poo and it's pretty likely she wouldn't be an artist/writer otherwise

Justin Roiland hasn't openly acknowledged it the way Sugar has, but it's super obvious in his voice acting style and sense of humor

Avatar: TLA literally 100% exists because Zim's art director went "oh poo poo I'm gonna be unemployed" after that show got cancelled and called up a college buddy to make a pitch together

Roiland’s house of cosby’s didn’t really give off a Zim feel imo

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Grassy Knowles posted:

Roiland’s house of cosby’s didn’t really give off a Zim feel imo

The thing is I'd call his sense of humor more of an iteration on Zim's than a ripoff

What they share in common is a juxtaposition of pitch-black comedy and goofy surrealism without any kind of dividing line being drawn between the two; you can see it in Zim with episodes like Bad Bad Rubber Piggy (in which the title character murders a 12-year-old boy by replacing various objects throughout his life with little pink rubber pigs) or Dark Harvest (in which the title character goes around harvesting everyone's organs and swapping them for random crap so he can have the Most Organs and be the Most Human), and you can see it in R&M with episodes like the Unity one or Pickle Rick. House of Cosbys is pretty much along the same lines, it just has the scale tipped pretty significantly in favor of surrealism over darkness.

It's not something you see very commonly and I'm pretty sure Jhonen Vasquez is basically patient zero for this style (Zim is, if anything, the toned down version of this compared to JTHM or Squee!).

(hell, now that I'm thinking about it, the plot of Dark Harvest almost straight-up sounds like a Roiland joke.)

e: I should also probably note, those two episodes and Bloaty's Pizza Hog are probably the best intro point to Zim. The pilot's a good episode once you've gotten a feel for things, and it does a lot of table-setting that the show eventually comes back to, but it's really light on the characters that are actually the most fun, and it's really heavy on the characters that can get grating.

Bloaty's Pizza Hog in particular is both probably the most direct antecedent to what R&M does in episodes like the Unity one or Pickle Rick (an oddly serious and well-handled revelation about the characters packed into an incredibly goofy plot), and a really loving funny episode that, instead of relying heavily on characters that can get grating, is almost 100% about the best character.

WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 18, 2019

Sarcopenia
May 14, 2014

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Rebecca Sugar got her start in art/writing doing Zim fan poo poo and it's pretty likely she wouldn't be an artist/writer otherwise

Justin Roiland hasn't openly acknowledged it the way Sugar has, but it's super obvious in his voice acting style and sense of humor

Avatar: TLA literally 100% exists because Zim's art director went "oh poo poo I'm gonna be unemployed" after that show got cancelled and called up a college buddy to make a pitch together
"I got laid off from this project and therefor had to work on something else" is a weird example but I guess it might not have existed if that dude wasn't going to be jobless at that exact time. I think two of those are reaches and Sugar is inspired by so much else that I don't know if it would had been that much different without it. Like do you really think that none of these would have come into existence without being inspired by Zim Invader?

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005

by sebmojo
absurdism and black humor didn’t exist before the goth who wrote Johnny the homicidal maniac

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Sarcopenia posted:

"I got laid off from this project and therefor had to work on something else" is a weird example but I guess it might not have existed if that dude wasn't going to be jobless at that exact time.

I looked into this to try and figure out what Bryan Konietzko would be doing in some hypothetical world where Zim never happened at all, and... it turns out IZ was his second job ever in the animation industry, and his first remotely high-profile one (the only previous work he has on IMDB is character design for a few random Family Guy episodes). Not only would A:TLA not have happened (and certainly not on Nick and certainly not at the time it did), but it's reasonably likely that Konietzko would just be some random journeyman animator, if he stayed in the industry at all.

I'm not really guessing anything with Sugar, she's openly acknowledged that Zim was a huge influence on her and a huge factor in her doing creative poo poo at all. Roiland's the only one where I'm filling in any blanks, and they're relatively easy ones (especially since he turned around and did work on Enter the Florpus).

Bonaventure posted:

absurdism and black humor didn’t exist before the goth who wrote Johnny the homicidal maniac

How many things can you think of from before his work that mixed the two in an even remotely similar way? Because I'm pretty stumped myself and I'd be curious to check them out

Like you can probably point out R. Crumb and the Mask comics and such as very early antecedents to the same style, but there's a lot of notable differences there; typically one side gets sold out in favor of the other, as opposed to breathlessly juxtaposing the two

e: also JTHM is unironically in the top tier of fictional stories about mental illness. I genuinely haven't seen an author nail what intrusive thoughts are like better than Vasquez did with the Doughboys, and there are a couple bits of that comic that nail the internal voice of depression (for lack of a better way of describing it) in a way I didn't see equaled in any fictional media until the Free Churro episode of BoJack. the fact that it manages to do this, and in the same breath be a comic about random murder with a bunch of poo jokes in it, is pretty much the purest essence of what I'm saying he pioneered.

WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Sep 18, 2019

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Jhonen Vasquez and his assorted works kick rear end.

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005

by sebmojo

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

How many things can you think of from before his work that mixed the two in an even remotely similar way? Because I'm pretty stumped myself and I'd be curious to check them out

the absurd as an element of the comic, especially the darkly comic, is so common in the history of culture that i almost doubt you're asking this in good faith. i could try to show off and list a bunch of poo poo but an obvious contemporary example and one that Justin Roiland would probably have been familiar with is half the jokes Douglas Adams made

e: or Charles Addams for that matter. Let's just list Addamses.

Bonaventure fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Sep 18, 2019

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
Sometimes it's fun to run into a room and shout "SPORK!" at the top of your lungs

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
I'll give you Charles but not Douglas.

Douglas Adams is actually a shining example of what I was talking about with one side selling out the other- there's very little of the Hitchhiker's series that's both absurd and dark, aside from arguably the destruction of Earth at the start (where the text almost goes out of its way to minimize the enormity of the event and mitigate its darkness). It's just goofy for the first few books, and then the last two (not counting that... thing Colfer wrote) go full-on bleak with very little of the absurdity.

Charles Addams, however, absolutely did combine the two in a similar way, and Vasquez owes as much to him as the other people I mentioned owe to Vasquez (they even have vaguely similar art styles, though the latter tends to go more scratchy and abstract). I don't know how I blanked on him. He's also kind of the exception that proves my point, though; a lot of why Addams and his Family reached the iconic status they did is because nobody else was doing that before, and very few did after.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

Bonaventure posted:

the absurd as an element of the comic, especially the darkly comic, is so common in the history of culture that i almost doubt you're asking this in good faith.

"is this argument in good faith or are you actually this loving stupid" is a question i have to ask a lot when reading a LORD OF BOOTY post

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005

by sebmojo
Douglas doesn't count he only wrote a few jokes where the living meal begs to be killed and eaten

Les Chants de Maldoror, The Master and Margarita, Dead Souls and other Gogol, Titus Andronicus, Volpone, The Jew of Malta, The Second Maiden's Tragedy, Henry Fielding's Shamela, The Golden rear end of Apuleius, the Zucker brothers, the Clue film, Monty Python, Edward Gorey--George Carlin didn't make that "imagine Daffy Duck raping Porky Pig" joke until after he saw Invader Zim?

have you never heard a limerick?

Bonaventure fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Sep 18, 2019

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Invader Zim was widely accessible and readily talked about, it's not a stretch at all to imagine it was a whole lot of young people's formative introduction to the kind of things it did comedically.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Alaois posted:

"is this argument in good faith or are you actually this loving stupid" is a question i have to ask a lot when reading a LORD OF BOOTY post

I am very, very rarely insincere, though I'll cop to being an idiot

e: also, I'm not familiar with about half of the poo poo that got rattled off there and I haven't gotten around to a chunk of what I am familiar with, but... Titus Andronicus being considered comedic is news to me, the only Python I'd identify as in a related vein is Life of Brian and even then only mildly (the ending is 100% along these lines but not the rest of it), and that Carlin joke is "dark" in an entirely different direction that I don't typically see lumped in with this type of humor.

Most of the limericks I'm familiar with are just dick jokes.

The meat jokes are another example of what I'm talking about with Adams, where he goes out of his way to minimize the horror of situations that could absolutely be played for it. It's actually one of the things I like about Adams, I should note- the contrast between the events themselves and the narration and characters' stiff-upper-lip reactions is absolutely hilarious to me.

e2: I just noticed the Zucker Bros in there, what the gently caress :psyduck: Since when did they make anything remotely loving dark, unless you count the poorly-aged OJ jokes in The Naked Gun or the existence of An American Carol

WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 18, 2019

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
https://youtu.be/LNHbm7GBHwg New down the rabbit hole. This time about wingsofredemption.

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005

by sebmojo
there was a young man of Calcutta
whose balls were turning to butter.
in a day of great heat
the folks had a treat
as his testicles flowed down the gutter.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://youtu.be/LNHbm7GBHwg New down the rabbit hole. This time about wingsofredemption.

These are always vaguely horrifying, but I cannot turn away.

Big Bob Pataki
Jan 23, 2009

The Bob that Refreshes
I don't know why but I find Wings endlessly fascinating.

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Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007

LOOK, collaborate and LISTEN

E: drat, two hours

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