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CelticPredator posted:Louie needs to be gone for like at least 5 years. Yeah well that’s literally not going to happen. I was listening to an interview with Anthony Jeselnik and he said something that really stuck with me. He says it’s not about whether or not Louie should be performing, it’s about whether or not we should buy tickets. I agree with this completely. It’s really not about trying and failing to control people, it’s about making the personal decision to not support the artist and moving on with your life, kinda like every other divisive decision we have to make throughout the day. Jeselnik went on the record as saying that he doesn’t really give a poo poo about Louie besides him thinking it’s super funny to watch the biggest comedian in the world get dragged through the mud.
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Sep 22, 2019 04:14
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Maybe he shouldn’t have whipped his dick out then.
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Sep 22, 2019 04:20
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Louie: “mass debate meeeeeee
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Sep 22, 2019 04:28
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"Vote with your wallet" never, ever works.
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Sep 22, 2019 04:46
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If Louis C.K apologizes, will we all forgive him? or will we always remember he was an opportunistic creep that one time so him theoretically apologizing won't even matter? I'm just really asking when will this poo poo with him end, because i think there's bigger fish to fry
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Sep 22, 2019 05:04
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Fargin Icehole posted:that one time ...umm?
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Sep 22, 2019 05:45
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Fargin Icehole posted:If Louis C.K apologizes, will we all forgive him? or will we always remember he was an opportunistic creep that one time so him theoretically apologizing won't even matter? if he had actually spent some time away from the spotlight and came back with a sincere apology and tried to make amends for what he did, there's a pretty good chance that the larger comedy world would've accepted him back into the fold. As it is he's still performing and has people willing to stick up for him, but it's sort of in shadows and done behind people's backs or out of earshot of the public, but if he had actually come back and had seemingly learned from what he had done, he'd probably be getting his first big role post-scandal right about now instead of that, however, he is pretty much going into "gently caress you what I did wasn't wrong and I was hurt way more than anyone else in this situation" mode, which just shows that he hasn't actually changed at all. "this poo poo" will end either when he decides to give up and live with whatever money he has left in quiet, or he actually has an epiphany, or he does something even worse.
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Sep 22, 2019 05:58
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Snowman_McK posted:...umm? That one time that it was reported and actually gained traction, rather than ending up becoming one of many "rumours" throughout his career, my bad!
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Sep 22, 2019 06:39
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Bust Rodd posted:https://www.chicagotribune.com/ente...?outputType=amp I dunno, I kind of find it amusing that Louis CK, who used to be so clever that he could navigate his way around using the n word and joking about child molesters and slavery jokes somehow suddenly turned Klutzy McGee Butterfingers when it come to navigating his own crisis and keeps reacting in the most crybaby ways as he gets hounded by these reports
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Sep 22, 2019 06:44
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“We live in this world where everyone wants their feelings heard,” the guy next to me told me adamantly before the show, when I asked if he thought C.K. would address his sexual misconduct. “I hope he doesn’t apologize.” That guy — and other audience members like him — are certainly getting what they’re looking for out of Louis C.K.’s current tour. I wonder if Louis is. We live in a society
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Sep 22, 2019 06:49
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DC Murderverse posted:if he had actually spent some time away from the spotlight and came back with a sincere apology and tried to make amends for what he did, there's a pretty good chance that the larger comedy world would've accepted him back into the fold. As it is he's still performing and has people willing to stick up for him, but it's sort of in shadows and done behind people's backs or out of earshot of the public, but if he had actually come back and had seemingly learned from what he had done, he'd probably be getting his first big role post-scandal right about now As an incredibly poor person IRL, I personally feel like any amount of time he takes off would feel completely arbitrary because if I say he should take a year and Celtic Predator says he should take 5 years and the woman he hurt say he shouldn’t ever come back... well none of us really have any reason for our arbitrary deadlines, and there is no indication or data to support the idea that taking time off from society to live like an ascetic hermit actually has any impact on your behavior. The $40 million dollars that he lost for himself and his family feels like the biggest punishment any of these predators have faced so far (except for like Epstein). Also you’ve got a common misconception here. The “larger comedy world” still supports Louie and the number or anti-Louie comedians shrinks daily. Most of them vocally believe that any of these guys can come back whenever they want to because you can’t tell someone not to work and not provide for their families, and if he can’t produce shows or make movies and nobody wants to work with him on new projects, isn’t touring and doing stand-up really his only option? Like if you’ve had one career for 30 years and suddenly not only do you get fired but you’re also blacklisted and can’t ever work in that field again, what the gently caress are you supposed to do? Learn a new trade skill at 50 and work your way back up until you can support yourself again? It’s just an unrealistic expectation that anyone who gets cancelled just has to go crawl in a hole and die, that’s not how things work and I don’t think that’s how things should work. People need a chance. My brother is getting out of prison next month after 18 years for murder. I have to believe that people can renter society.
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Sep 22, 2019 10:49
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Being a huge mega celebrity isn’t a right. People have been cast out for just making a bad movie, and never allowed to work in the system ever again.
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Sep 22, 2019 11:55
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Winona Ryder was shunned harder for shop lifting than LCK was for jerking off onto women.
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Sep 22, 2019 12:01
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Bust Rodd posted:As an incredibly poor person IRL, I personally feel like any amount of time he takes off would feel completely arbitrary because if I say he should take a year and Celtic Predator says he should take 5 years and the woman he hurt say he shouldn’t ever come back... well none of us really have any reason for our arbitrary deadlines, and there is no indication or data to support the idea that taking time off from society to live like an ascetic hermit actually has any impact on your behavior. The $40 million dollars that he lost for himself and his family feels like the biggest punishment any of these predators have faced so far (except for like Epstein). Your bro did 18 years. I'm a lot more willing to give Tyson another chance than CK cause at least Tyson did time and actually has admitted fault.
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Sep 22, 2019 12:13
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Bust Rodd posted:As an incredibly poor person IRL, I personally feel like any amount of time he takes off would feel completely arbitrary because if I say he should take a year and Celtic Predator says he should take 5 years and the woman he hurt say he shouldn’t ever come back... well none of us really have any reason for our arbitrary deadlines, and there is no indication or data to support the idea that taking time off from society to live like an ascetic hermit actually has any impact on your behavior. The $40 million dollars that he lost for himself and his family feels like the biggest punishment any of these predators have faced so far (except for like Epstein). He's rich he doesn't have to worry about supporting himself.
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Sep 22, 2019 12:15
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I agree w/ Bust about “if we say convicted criminals can be/are rehabilitated, what about these guys?” It’s so persnickety. Louis deserves consequences, for sure, he got to skate on some pretty gross poo poo for years. But he’s had his rear end kicked... but he hasn’t really apologized. Well, I think he put out a statement or whatever when it first blew up. Does he deserve to lose $50 million? $80 million? I’m not defending Louis or saying he deserves to come back at this moment. I just think the contrast with expectations for those in his position versus criminals who went through a trial and due process, along w an appropriate punishment, is worth talking about.
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Sep 22, 2019 12:16
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That's not really equal though for a discussion in good faith. Louis wasn't convicted of anything and didn't try to make amends for the abuse he caused. Celebrities like Mike Tyson, who did go to jail for sexual assault, seem to still be popular after the conviction. Louis shouldn't be put in a position of power again because he abused it.
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Sep 22, 2019 13:50
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A just punishment would ban him from any influence or power in the comedy community forever. He had one chance to do comedy. He hosed it up. He can't do comedy any more. It doesn't really matter what we think should happen, because what has happened is literally nothing. Am I supposed to feel bad about him losing 50-80 million? I feel bad that I spent money and time on his specials and performances and he was using that acquired clout and power to abuse people who trusted him.
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Sep 22, 2019 15:45
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graventy posted:A just punishment would ban him from any influence or power in the comedy community forever. He had one chance to do comedy. He hosed it up. He can't do comedy any more. That last sentence is so weird. Why would you feel bad for something that he did on his own? Presumably you bought his specials and whatnot because you liked it and it made you laugh. You may as well avoid any art on the possibility the person could be a monster. Are you grimacing over seeing Miramax movies in the 90s? EDIT: and I don’t agree about the punishment thing. Maybe in our eyes he hasn’t been punished, but to him, he’s experienced being ostracized, losing major opportunities, etc. And even then, there are guys like David Bowie and John Lennon who did explicitly more hosed up things to girls and women, but they’re timeless legends. I don’t think Louis deserves a pass, but there are clearly mixed signals. If we think his transgressions are worthy of cancelling, then why not Led Zeppelin for sticking sharks in pussies or whatever the story is? Boywhiz88 fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 15:54
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I don't particularly like supporting people who turn out to be monsters, so yeah, I feel guilty about supporting him. That's mostly my Lutheran upbringing speaking, probably. We feel guilty about everything.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:01
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Boywhiz88 posted:That last sentence is so weird. Why would you feel bad for something that he did on his own? Presumably you bought his specials and whatnot because you liked it and it made you laugh. You may as well avoid any art on the possibility the person could be a monster. Are you grimacing over seeing Miramax movies in the 90s? Might be slightly different situations because stand ups are way closer to being the work of a single person whereas on movies you have huge crews whose livelihoods would be hurt unfairly by boycotts. At least in the videogame world, when developers complained about lovely working conditions or sexual harassment at work, they uniformly say please don’t boycott my game because my bonuses are tied to its sale, please publicize the work abuses at my company so that the abusive executives can be shamed into acting right. That said, I still feel that you shouldn’t feel bad about having watched old Louis CK stand ups because really most of us didn’t know about any of this and even those that heard rumors didn’t know anything for certain. Louis CK went out of his way sending his manager to threaten people from spilling the beans on him, there’s no way we in the audience should feel responsible about any of this
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Sep 22, 2019 16:05
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Steve Yun posted:I dunno, I kind of find it amusing that Louis CK, who used to be so clever that he could navigate his way around using the n word and joking about child molesters and slavery jokes somehow suddenly turned Klutzy McGee Butterfingers when it come to navigating his own crisis and keeps reacting in the most crybaby ways as he gets hounded by these reports I'd argue that he was was never that clever and it was just a guy saying transgressive things to make people laugh while they told themselves "it's ok, it's ironic."
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Sep 22, 2019 16:06
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I'd argue that he was was never that clever and it was just a guy saying transgressive things to make people laugh while they told themselves "it's ok, it's ironic." That's a take now but prior to all this Louie was hailed as brilliant and a unique voice.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:07
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graventy posted:I don't particularly like supporting people who turn out to be monsters, so yeah, I feel guilty about supporting him. That's mostly my Lutheran upbringing speaking, probably. We feel guilty about everything. Hahaha, that’s fair! And hey, I might be telling on my lack of empathy or something by looking at it that way myself. I appreciate that everyone has approached this in good faith, I’m really not trying to weasel out a defense or anything for Louis. It’s just a part of these situations that I’ve thought about and wanted to know what other people were thinking.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:07
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Rhyno posted:That's a take now but prior to all this Louie was hailed as brilliant and a unique voice. I have to admit that I’ve gotten into coffee drinks this year. I run through Louis’ bit in my head about the guy making the drink and tamping and whatnot. It makes me giggle because it can be v accurate.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:10
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Rhyno posted:That's a take now but prior to all this Louie was hailed as brilliant and a unique voice. Not by me. I never understood why people fawned over him when there are comedians like Stewart Lee out there. You are right though that it wasn't a popular opinion.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:12
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Yeah you were definitely in the minority because fuckin everyone loved LCK.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:17
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I'd argue that he was was never that clever and it was just a guy saying transgressive things to make people laugh while they told themselves "it's ok, it's ironic." Your description could apply to 15-20 of the biggest acts in comedy. It’s almost like that’s what people WANT from comedians graventy posted:A just punishment would ban him from any influence or power in the comedy community forever. He had one chance to do comedy. He hosed it up. He can't do comedy any more. I really don’t understand the logic behind this at all. There is no court or ruling comedy hierarchy. What you’re proposing as Just sounds like nonsense. One chance? Why? I also think it’s important to remember that like the Kevin Hart thing the last incident was like over 10 years ago. Doesn’t anybody think that maybe the lessons were insisting he learn about not doing this are things that he HAS learned... like I dunno maybe when stopped doing this poo poo? Banning people for life from the only thing they know how to do just doesn’t make sense to me and certainly seems like a false equivalency. What if Netflix had said “you have to attend sexual harassment lectures and half of your proceeds from the next special go to a women’s charity”? Wouldn’t that be better than banning him from everything so now he’s just a rich, dangerous pervert with a chip on his shoulder?
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Sep 22, 2019 16:21
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Alan Smithee posted:“We live in this world where everyone wants their feelings heard,” the guy next to me told me adamantly before the show, when I asked if he thought C.K. would address his sexual misconduct. “I hope he doesn’t apologize.” That guy — and other audience members like him — are certainly getting what they’re looking for out of Louis C.K.’s current tour. I wonder if Louis is. That's... that's how feelings work.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:24
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They had jobs before they were comedians. Wendy's is always hiring.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:24
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louis ck has already gotten enough money to never need to work a day in his life before this scandal hit the mainstream, boo loving hoo if he doesn't get to keep making millions more from 'the only thing he knows how to do'
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Sep 22, 2019 16:26
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I mean I don’t want to go out of my way to defend the guy but I got into arguments about use of the n word (which I myself was guilty of misusing when I was younger and had to think about when I got called out on it) and had to mull over why Louis CK got away with it when Bill Maher didn’t. I think, and feel free to tell me I’m wrong on this, but I think Louis CK acknowledged how dangerous the word is in his routines and made its weight part of the point of his bit. (I don’t think it’s a great bit but I acknowledge he “gets away with it” because he put some thought into how to couch it) Same with his SNL opener when he talked about child molesters and the standup about “of course but maybe,” they’re all making the taboo of the topic part of the point. That takes some thinking and some cleverness and some understanding to pull off. So when Bill Maher says the n word, he gets unanimous blowback on it because he treats the word flippantly and in a way that’s degrading. “I’m not your house n——“ he says, which comes across as putting down slaves. So it’s hilarious to me now that once this harassment crisis hits Louis CK and because it’s about him and his behavior towards women, it hits closer to home for him than anything else and he’s unable to utilize the cleverness he exhibited before. He’s unable to let go of the pickle to free his hand from the jar. He’s unable to make a sincere apology that sticks even though that’s the only path to absolution for him. It’s entirely within his power and yet he can’t because he can’t emotionally bring himself to make the 100% full apology. He’s unable to take his lumps on the chin to earn back forgiveness and instead is whining about the public ridicule he’s rightfully getting. He was so clever about topics that were personal to others; slavery, the n word, child molesters, but couldn’t apply that same level of thought to dealing with himself Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 16:29
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Bust Rodd posted:I really don’t understand the logic behind this at all. There is no court or ruling comedy hierarchy. What you’re proposing as Just sounds like nonsense. One chance? Why? Because he serially molested people. He hasn't had one chance he had lots of chances to not go up to up and coming women in comedy and do what he did. He had tons of chances to not send his manager to make sure the stories stayed quiet. You know how loving easy it is to not molest people? It's pretty loving easy. I said it wasn't a realistic punishment, but comedy is a hardscrabble career that talented people fail at all the time. What has he done to deserve a second chance? Not even a second chance but re-emerging from a vacation to go right back to headlining.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:42
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Just speculating but it wouldn't surprise me if he used comedy writers for his standup after he made it big. When the accusations went public, said writers quit and his act declined.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:43
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Brother Entropy posted:louis ck has already gotten enough money to never need to work a day in his life before this scandal hit the mainstream, boo loving hoo if he doesn't get to keep making millions more from 'the only thing he knows how to do' Yeah, people keep saying that he lost $35 million but he didn't lose a goddamn cent. He lost a bunch of contracts which would have earned him tens of millions of dollars more than he already had so he lost a ton of potential earnings but he was already insanely wealthy. He'd earned over $50 million in just the 12 months alone before the scandal. It's not like he's suddenly struggling to keep a roof over his family's head, he's still way way richer than anyone in this thread could ever hope to be.
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Sep 22, 2019 16:45
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graventy posted:You know how loving easy it is to not molest people? It's pretty loving easy. Must feel really good to molest people because there is no worse life to a person than being a caught molester and yet they keep doing it!
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Sep 22, 2019 16:49
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I think it’s important to these kinds of discussions to use the correct language. There is no doubt Louis sexually harassed people, but he didn’t touch anyone, so it’s wrong to say that he molested them. Might seem like splitting hairs to some, but I think the reason these conversations go off rails so often is because the language isn’t super clear and you end up with people basically lumping everyone into one big pile regardless of the severity of their actions or crimes, which leads to bullshit like the Aziz Ansari thing Edited to think more clearly about a point I wasn’t making well
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Sep 22, 2019 16:50
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Nobody deserves to have $50 million dollars or whatever anyway
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Sep 22, 2019 16:52
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Steve Yun posted:Must feel really good to molest people because there is no worse life to a person than being a caught molester and yet they keep doing it! People feel good using/abusing their power and getting away with it because they can. Edit: Ah I see what you did there! 
Joe Chill fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 16:58
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I think it’s important to point out also that when we say “Louis lost 35-40-50 million dollars” were also saying everyone who worked for Louis, his production company, his writers, his actors, his production managers, his set designers, and all the people who depended on him lost their jobs and immediately had to find to new work” Obviously what Louis did impacted his fictions severely and dramatically, but Louis losing all that money isn’t just about not putting his kids through private school, it’s about finding new careers for the 100+ people who worked for him.
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Sep 22, 2019 17:00
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