Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
BarbarianElephant
Feb 12, 2015
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Liquid Communism posted:

Geek Squad hasn't been able to hire anyone competent in at least five years because they want people who are competent to do deskside support and customer service, but also want to pay $11 an hour and have them spend all their time upselling.

They went to Johnny Utah, aka 'we plug your machine in on the shelf in the back and have a remote team in India do the work' so they could have the GS people go sell in Computers years ago.

I think there's less of a need for a retail presence to fix your horrible computer now that modern OSs have more protection against spyware and trojans and most people have SLIGHTLY more computer skills than when computers were new and magical consumer goods.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012

BarbarianElephant posted:

I think there's less of a need for a retail presence to fix your horrible computer now that modern OSs have more protection against spyware and trojans and most people have SLIGHTLY more computer skills than when computers were new and magical consumer goods.

You give people way too much credit. :)

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

BarbarianElephant posted:

I think there's less of a need for a retail presence to fix your horrible computer now that modern OSs have more protection against spyware and trojans and most people have SLIGHTLY more computer skills than when computers were new and magical consumer goods.

I have customers who still cant figure out how to send an email.

Dameius
Apr 3, 2006
Build a better system and the universe provides a better idiot. It's a Truism for a reason.

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019
People didn't become more skilled at using computers - basic tasks just got simplified so they have an easier time doing them. Hoestly I think that whole mania around the first Iphones was mostly about computers becoming more accessible through a new type of UI.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!
Conclusion: If we had made command line interfaces a legal requirement, Trump wouldn't have happened.

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

Owling Howl posted:

People didn't become more skilled at using computers - basic tasks just got simplified so they have an easier time doing them. Hoestly I think that whole mania around the first Iphones was mostly about computers becoming more accessible through a new type of UI.

Today my public building was cleared because someone thought the motorized accessability toggle for the door was the red analog switch with "fire alarm" on it instead of the big silver button with a wheel chair on it 3 feet away and 2 feet lower.

UX matters!!

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?
The only person I know who's still in any kind of user facing IT constantly bitches that the young people at his company somehow manage to know less about computers than all the middle-aged office drones. It's a sample size of one, though, so eh.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Owling Howl posted:

People didn't become more skilled at using computers - basic tasks just got simplified so they have an easier time doing them. Hoestly I think that whole mania around the first Iphones was mostly about computers becoming more accessible through a new type of UI.

Also, massive gains from multitasking. I still remember when running a spreadsheet program was all the PC could without quitting into another app, now 90% of my work day is tabbing between web apps, spreadsheets, form documents, and email.

Alterian
Jan 28, 2003

Paradoxish posted:

The only person I know who's still in any kind of user facing IT constantly bitches that the young people at his company somehow manage to know less about computers than all the middle-aged office drones. It's a sample size of one, though, so eh.

As a professor in a tech field, I can attest that the newer generation is loving terrible at computers. They grew up on phones and tablets where everything works. I'm getting really loving tired this far into a semester explaining how to unzip and zip their projects and why they shouldn't be working directly off their flash drives.

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

Alterian posted:

As a professor in a tech field, I can attest that the newer generation is loving terrible at computers. They grew up on phones and tablets where everything works. I'm getting really loving tired this far into a semester explaining how to unzip and zip their projects and why they shouldn't be working directly off their flash drives.

Alexa, what is Napster?

Senor Tron
May 26, 2006


Alterian posted:

As a professor in a tech field, I can attest that the newer generation is loving terrible at computers. They grew up on phones and tablets where everything works. I'm getting really loving tired this far into a semester explaining how to unzip and zip their projects and why they shouldn't be working directly off their flash drives.

This triggers me.

So many problems students ask for help with is because they are opening a giant Unity project directly off a USB stick, and happily sit there waiting 30 seconds while it catches up after any change they make. No amount of telling them why it's a bad idea seems to stick.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Senor Tron posted:

This triggers me.

So many problems students ask for help with is because they are opening a giant Unity project directly off a USB stick, and happily sit there waiting 30 seconds while it catches up after any change they make. No amount of telling them why it's a bad idea seems to stick.

Hahahahahaha this is loving great im sure this event is met with a seething rage. Could you imagine they take this great idea to a real job?

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD
Had a person in their late 50s reply back to every automatic notification e-mail thanking the sender. They did not understand that no one was in fact sending them an Amazon receipt 7 seconds after they hit enter. After three different times of having this explained, they still didn't get it but at least stopped complaining about the errors they'd get when replying. We have another user in their late 30s who copies themselves on every e-mail they send out. "To have a record of it". They have a Master's Degree. I have users in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s that struggle with the most basic word processing tasks despite it being their job.

Meanwhile, my 89 year old grandmother can successfully use her Gmail account, browse the local obituaries for people she knew and play Bridge every waking hour. Her troubleshooting skills consist of "turning it off and back on it again" and then calling my mother.

So no, neither age or education grant any sort of intrinsic computer experience

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

The amount of people that think free wifi exists is depressing.

I mean, it should be, but so many people asking if a router will give them free internet. Or paying the same monthly fee as you would an ISP to get maybe 10 GB a month on a lovely hotspot.

Grand Prize Winner
Feb 19, 2007


Free wifi existed from like 2004-2011 depending on how technically adept your neighbors were.

Solaris 2.0
May 14, 2008

I work in Service Desk.

They key to completely bringing your organization to a grinding halt is to initialize a Group Policy that removes your users desktop shortcuts.

A major of users, no matter the age, are utterly paralyzed when you remove their shortcuts. Like, they can’t even figure out how to click the Windows Start menu, a functionality that has been around for nearly 25 years, to find their programs / Google Chrome.

This includes our application development team. People who should loving know better.

It’s nice knowing there will be a need for service desk/Desktop Support for the foreseeable future.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Solaris 2.0 posted:

I work in Service Desk.

They key to completely bringing your organization to a grinding halt is to initialize a Group Policy that removes your users desktop shortcuts.

A major of users, no matter the age, are utterly paralyzed when you remove their shortcuts. Like, they can’t even figure out how to click the Windows Start menu, a functionality that has been around for nearly 25 years, to find their programs / Google Chrome.

This includes our application development team. People who should loving know better.

It’s nice knowing there will be a need for service desk/Desktop Support for the foreseeable future.

What problem are you trying to solve that involves getting rid of desktop shortcuts?

I mean, yes I can go find the programs again, but doing something like that is basically the digital version of clearing everyone’s desk and putting the papers in random drawers.

Solaris 2.0
May 14, 2008

Solkanar512 posted:

What problem are you trying to solve that involves getting rid of desktop shortcuts?

I mean, yes I can go find the programs again, but doing something like that is basically the digital version of clearing everyone’s desk and putting the papers in random drawers.

Our IT director wants them gone on all newly imaged computers for “reasons”

It doesn’t make any loving sense to me either.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant
Kids, afaik, use the Caps Lock as a shift key.

That means hitting Caps, typing one key, hitting Caps again... I literally just said "Hold the shift key that's what it's there for!" And they were like "oh but this way is better" :bernchloe:

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:

FilthyImp posted:

Kids, afaik, use the Caps Lock as a shift key.

That means hitting Caps, typing one key, hitting Caps again... I literally just said "Hold the shift key that's what it's there for!" And they were like "oh but this way is better" :bernchloe:

That's more a Trump thing imho
"I'm gonna do it the wrong way anyway, cause that's how I already do it!"

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012

FilthyImp posted:

Kids, afaik, use the Caps Lock as a shift key.

That means hitting Caps, typing one key, hitting Caps again... I literally just said "Hold the shift key that's what it's there for!" And they were like "oh but this way is better" :bernchloe:

A friend of mine does this, first time I saw it I had to bite my tongue not to say anything. I mean, why?

Alterian
Jan 28, 2003

Senor Tron posted:

This triggers me.

So many problems students ask for help with is because they are opening a giant Unity project directly off a USB stick, and happily sit there waiting 30 seconds while it catches up after any change they make. No amount of telling them why it's a bad idea seems to stick.

We teach the same game engine! Submitting builds is always fun. No, its not some random file you found. Its the whole drat build folder. No, that's not the .cs file with your script in it, that's another random file you found. Yes you got a zero for your project. I can't open your Unity project from just the scene file. Where are your notes from the multiple times I've demoed this or from the two videos on the topic I made for the class?

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup



Grand Prize Winner posted:

Free wifi existed from like 2004-2011 depending on how technically adept your neighbors were.

Unless you're near a business offering free wifi to its customers. Other than that, every new router comes locked down from the factory.

The early 2000s were a magical time when you could sponge off your neighbor's wifi and they weren't tech-savvy enough to realize it.

Lambert
Apr 15, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
Fallen Rib
WEP ("Wired Equivalent Privacy") being hilariously broken certainly didn't help.

Senor Tron
May 26, 2006


Balliver Shagnasty posted:

Unless you're near a business offering free wifi to its customers. Other than that, every new router comes locked down from the factory.

The early 2000s were a magical time when you could sponge off your neighbor's wifi and they weren't tech-savvy enough to realize it.

In the early 2000s we used to have a good time driving around the neighborhood, looking for unsecured networks with printers on them and just printing out a single page that said "hello".

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

FilthyImp posted:

Kids, afaik, use the Caps Lock as a shift key.

That means hitting Caps, typing one key, hitting Caps again... I literally just said "Hold the shift key that's what it's there for!" And they were like "oh but this way is better" :bernchloe:

People who use Caps Lock to capitalise one letter irrationally annoy me in the same way as people who try to move characters in video games by physically moving the controller right and left.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
I just loving hate computers.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I just loving hate computers.
Me too buddy.

My client's entire operation is run from terminals connected to an IBM 3033 and the last person there who knew how it worked retired 5 years ago.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup



Rent-A-Cop posted:

Me too buddy.

My client's entire operation is run from terminals connected to an IBM 3033 and the last person there who knew how it worked retired 5 years ago.

There's gotta be money in learning dead computer languages and dead systems for tech support purposes, because lord knows companies love hanging on to old-rear end hardware and software until bankruptcy or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes first*.

*Or when the next CEO demands everything be thrown out for the latest newest tech fad, throwing the ecosphere into a never-seen-before level of utter chaos.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

Balliver Shagnasty posted:

There's gotta be money in learning dead computer languages and dead systems for tech support purposes, because lord knows companies love hanging on to old-rear end hardware and software until bankruptcy or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes first*.

*Or when the next CEO demands everything be thrown out for the latest newest tech fad, throwing the ecosphere into a never-seen-before level of utter chaos.

There is, but there's also so little demand that getting such a job is all luck

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Balliver Shagnasty posted:

There's gotta be money in learning dead computer languages and dead systems for tech support purposes, because lord knows companies love hanging on to old-rear end hardware and software until bankruptcy or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes first*.

*Or when the next CEO demands everything be thrown out for the latest newest tech fad, throwing the ecosphere into a never-seen-before level of utter chaos.

I've got an ex-coworker who retired a few years ago and still makes five digit callout fees a couple times a year because he knows FORTRAN on a practical level and can troubleshoot old systems that run it.

There are a ton of places with huge amounts of maintenance debt that are on frighteningly fragile systems to do necessary work for their core business.

I once serviced a paint tinter at Sherwin Williams that was running MSDOS in Linux shell because it was from the late 80's and wouldn't talk to anything current, but was also a $100k machine so they refused to replace it until it physically quit working.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

HootTheOwl posted:

There is, but there's also so little demand that getting such a job is all suck


Ftfy

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Liquid Communism posted:

I've got an ex-coworker who retired a few years ago and still makes five digit callout fees a couple times a year because he knows FORTRAN on a practical level and can troubleshoot old systems that run it.

There are a ton of places with huge amounts of maintenance debt that are on frighteningly fragile systems to do necessary work for their core business.

I once serviced a paint tinter at Sherwin Williams that was running MSDOS in Linux shell because it was from the late 80's and wouldn't talk to anything current, but was also a $100k machine so they refused to replace it until it physically quit working.

Yeah, it's the "practical level" part that's important. It's not all that hard to find these jobs, it's just hard to come by the experience that you need to do them. Companies would be fine with telling their own people to just learn FORTRAN or whatever, but reading a book doesn't put you into a position where you can actually deal with a crumbling legacy system that no one can explain to you.

BlueBlazer
Apr 1, 2010

Liquid Communism posted:


There are a ton of places with huge amounts of maintenance debt that are on frighteningly fragile systems to do necessary work for their core business.


I've done side work for years repairing dated ACS/CNC/PLC controllers. Good tools can keep living if you give enough of a poo poo and have no capital. Interfacing old logistics systems and enterprise EDI's is another area where an experienced troubleshooter can do quite well. Just because there is better technology doesnt always mean you NEED it. It really comes down to your employees willingness to retrain if you do.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




The edi's the marine terminal systems use are old old old.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

Paradoxish posted:

Yeah, it's the "practical level" part that's important. It's not all that hard to find these jobs, it's just hard to come by the experience that you need to do them. Companies would be fine with telling their own people to just learn FORTRAN or whatever, but reading a book doesn't put you into a position where you can actually deal with a crumbling legacy system that no one can explain to you.

It's also worth noting that just reading a book can learn you a modern language but not an old one. They all had all sorts of weird quirks and lack a lot of features that modern languages have to make things easier. A lot of them are practically assembly they're so esoteric and weird. They're also massively easy to break accidentally as they don't get a lot of the safety features modern languages have. These are often also business critical applications; part of what they're paying for is just knowing how to interact with the systems at all without accidentally breaking anything. FORTRAN in particular dates back to the 50's. poo poo has come a loooooooooong way since then and that ancient greybeard that's been dealing with it for 40 years can tell you all sorts of mad things.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
That's not really an accurate representation of the situation though. Usually those old programming languages aren't running on actual original hardware and versions of the language or OS, they've been brought forward and modified quite a ways even if the initial version of the software was written 50 years ago.

It is exceedingly rare that you are asked in those situations to use strictly original FORTRAN or even FORTRAN 77 for instance, you are way more likely in a business context to have something that's been brought forward to at least a 90s revision with various changes to the base code as part of that. This is even more true for COBOL based stuff.


Also the idea that you can learn modern languages from just reading a book but you can't learn COBOL or FORTRAN or any other old langs that way? That's just false, it makes no sense. Those languages were designed around local operators at a company or college mostly learning how to use the drat things from books and if they were lucky maybe a few hours of active instruction. And meanwhile if you've just read a book on Javascript or whatever today and then start trying to jump on maintaining someone's existing code, it's probably going to work out terrible!

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I knew a guy who both retired and bought a house doing COBOL in the lead up to y2k. He kept bugging us "young" techs to learn it because he had too much work (he was around 45 at the time). I knew a bit from school fuckery but never wanted to bother so maybe jokes on me.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Smiling Jack
Dec 2, 2001

I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.

I know a guy who was still making a living as a fuckin MUMPS programmer in 2017.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply