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9 has the loving Cleansing. Anyway, book 1 is real interesting on a reread. Rand is channeling all the time and it's awesome how Jordan had the language for it down even that early in the series.
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Sep 24, 2019 06:27
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6 is good, 9 is good-ish. About half of 7 is good, about 1/3rd of 8 is good. You can skip literally all of book 10 and miss virtually nothing. The plot picked back up with 11, and then he died.
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Sep 24, 2019 10:05
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You can skip a lot of Book 1 once you realize he keeps copy-pasting the wagon drivers who give them scarves saying "They belong to my boys. You don’t know me, understand? It’s hard times”
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Sep 24, 2019 12:50
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Atlas Hugged posted:9 has the loving Cleansing. I think 9 is actually good overall. Most of the book is the Seanchan stuff in Ebou Dar, the political scheming chapters are actually interesting, the Far Madding thing is suspenseful and then BAM, Cleansing with like 8 different POVs and channelers absolutely demolishing each other. It's unfortunate that book 10 immediately goes back into a slog and he wastes a bunch of time in each chapter with that character's retrospective of the Cleansing. Data Graham posted:You can skip a lot of Book 1 once you realize he keeps copy-pasting the wagon drivers who give them scarves saying "They belong to my boys. You don’t know me, understand? It’s hard times” LOL.
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Sep 24, 2019 13:50
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Data Graham posted:You can skip a lot of Book 1 once you realize he keeps copy-pasting the wagon drivers who give them scarves saying "They belong to my boys. You don’t know me, understand? It’s hard times” I think he was trying some sort of complex narration style there that didn't work. It's always the same dude giving them the scarves, you're just flashing forward and backward in time before and up to the the Scarf Moment.
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Sep 24, 2019 13:51
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I don't remember these scarves from Book 1 at all. I just remember it's like 400 pages of, "Run you defenseless sheepherder, there are trollocs after us" followed by a brief stint of the aforementioned defenseless sheepherder using the source to kill Baazlamon. And for how loving cool the cleansing itself was, it sure felt like Jordan didn't go anywhere with it. It was just a bunch of "drat what's that off in the distance?" and "The taint is gone? lol yea ok buddy. See you're starting to go mad already"
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Sep 24, 2019 14:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think he was trying some sort of complex narration style there that didn't work. It's always the same dude giving them the scarves, you're just flashing forward and backward in time before and up to the the Scarf Moment. Cause I mean the drivers have different names, their circumstances/geographical locations are described in detail... I don't know. I mean it's not like that thing in Book 2 where he gets stuck in that literally copy-pasted hallucination loop with the kitchen and rotting food
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Sep 24, 2019 14:17
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He starts one chapter with the scarf thing, then flashes back in time and spends like 2 chapters catching up to that moment again. It's extra confusing because they get rides from like 3-4 different farmers in those chapters but only one of them is handing out scarves. I guess he wanted to mix up the monotony of "R+M arrive in village, play music, get hassled by darkfriends and move to the next village".
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Sep 24, 2019 14:26
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Huh. On review it appears you're right. That's weird as hell though.
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Sep 24, 2019 15:13
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calandryll posted:Book 6 is the worst one to skip. It probably has the best last quarter of a book with Dumai's Well. Nah, that's still book 5. In terms of endings, 6 is good, but nowhere near as good as 5.
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Sep 24, 2019 16:05
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Nah, that's still book 5. In terms of endings, 6 is good, but nowhere near as good as 5. I think a lot depends on when you started reading the books. I started reading them when book 4 came out, had read through 4 by the time 5 came out, and then had a longish wait for book six. In that context, the ending of six is this incredible world changing cliffhanger, with a years long wait to see how this whole new Black Tower thing is going to play out in book 7. Now, when you can jump directly into the next books and discover that actually the Black Tower never really gets satisfactorily resolved, it’s not nearly as satisfying. But at the time, holy hell was that an ending. Kneel or be knelt.
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Sep 24, 2019 16:18
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I can't remember which particular books had the whole pointless Faile and Morgase being captured by the Shaido Aiel part but those chapters could have been excised entirely with no real impact on the plot. While I'm here it would have been neat if literally anything had happened with those titular Towers of Midnight.
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Sep 24, 2019 17:54
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A ton of stuff happens in Towers of Midnight.
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Sep 24, 2019 18:00
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I reread the series a couple of years ago and skipped Nynaeve/Elayne chapters that didn't feature Mat, all Egwene chapters after she got to the rebel Aes Sedai and all of the Faile hunt. Sure there's a few important things that happen in there but it's just unbearable to read for a second time.
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Sep 24, 2019 18:10
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bloom posted:I reread the series a couple of years ago and skipped Nynaeve/Elayne chapters that didn't feature Mat, all Egwene chapters after she got to the rebel Aes Sedai and all of the Faile hunt. The boob ceremony
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Sep 24, 2019 18:14
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Data Graham posted:The boob ceremony There are multiple boob ceremonies you could be referring to.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:15
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Mad Hamish posted:While I'm here it would have been neat if literally anything had happened with those titular Towers of Midnight. The Towers of Midnight are both famous buildings in Seanchan, and another term for the Forsaken. And there was quite a lot of Forsaken action going on in ToM.
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Sep 24, 2019 22:11
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The scarves thing confused me the first time I read it because I wasn't expecting him to try and throw a narrative curveball, but on rereads I've never had an issue with it and it's hardly very much of the book. The first 100 pages, on the other hand, are fairly dull, but at least all the principle players of the book are introduced and given a moment to shine before chaos breaks out. Key character traits are firmly established before things get going. Then it's 200 pages of running from trollocs with the odd action sequence before the party splits. The one thing I'm critical of is that everyone keeps saying that Rand has always fantasized about leaving the village, but the Rand chapters up until Shadar Logoth have him very much opposed to leaving the Two Rivers and thinking that such ideas are foolishness. He seems very nearly ready to settle down with Egwene and live the life of a farmer. The only references to him daydreaming about adventure are when he reaches Baerlon and he debates bringing the sword with him since he had fantasized about wandering a city with a sword before, which lasts all of a sentence before they move on and never mention it again, and then when they reach Shadar Logoth he says he had poured over the mayor's old map daydreaming about adventure but had never heard of Aridhol or seen it marked. It's not the biggest complaint, but it is 200 pages in before Rand starts to hint that he wants this and 300 before it's clear that Rand had had flights of fancy same as everyone else. But everything up to and in between those moments are very much Rand not wanting anything to do with any sort of adventure and thinking the whole thing madness, for himself and especially for Egwene. The really big moment for his character is when he finds out that Egwene might go and be Wisdom in a village on the boundaries of the Two Rivers and that upsets him because it doesn't fit his life of shepherding. It just feels contradictory, especially because until the 300 page mark, he's the only point of view outside the omniscient prologue. In his head, he has no interest in this bullshit, but Nynaeve and Egwene keep telling him otherwise. Like it makes sense for them to do that to Mat because at least from his dialogue he's the most excited one to be out of Emond's Field, but it doesn't fit Rand very well early on. I think Robert Jordan is making the assumption that we all agree that all little boys daydream of adventure and the mentions of exploring in the woods as children are proof of that.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:36
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where do they treat Rand as if he always wanted to leave?
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Sep 25, 2019 03:25
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It's in a lot of the dialogue, especially between him and Egwene. It comes up between him and the other boys as well. To me it's mostly just a case of telling and not showing, reminding us the reader that he deep down wants an adventure despite the thoughts in his head being exactly opposite. The sword thing in Baerlon stands out especially because it's himself saying, "Oh man I've been waiting for the day that I could wear a sword in a city," but the preceding 200 pages mention nothing of the sort. It's then dropped entirely until Shadar Logoth and the reference to the mayor's map, 100 pages later.
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Sep 25, 2019 04:11
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To be fair desperately running from monsters that he until very recently thought were fairytales is probably not the sort of adventure he'd been daydreaming about.
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Sep 25, 2019 06:44
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's in a lot of the dialogue, especially between him and Egwene. It comes up between him and the other boys as well. To me it's mostly just a case of telling and not showing, reminding us the reader that he deep down wants an adventure despite the thoughts in his head being exactly opposite. The sword thing in Baerlon stands out especially because it's himself saying, "Oh man I've been waiting for the day that I could wear a sword in a city," but the preceding 200 pages mention nothing of the sort. It's then dropped entirely until Shadar Logoth and the reference to the mayor's map, 100 pages later. I always took this as a kind of youthful, "Man, wouldn't it be cool if..." kind of daydreaming contrasting with the traumatic reality of the situation. Rand is getting to live out one of his fantasies, but at this horrifying cost. I doubt any of the Two Rivers kids thought they'd ever leave, but that doesn't mean they didn't dream about it. Then this nightmare happens and they're trying to cling to any semblance of control over the situation they can grasp. Of course Rand gets excited about wearing a real sword in a real city. It's an excuse not to think about how he got to that city in the first place.
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Sep 25, 2019 06:59
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Guiness13 posted:I always took this as a kind of youthful, "Man, wouldn't it be cool if..." kind of daydreaming contrasting with the traumatic reality of the situation. Rand is getting to live out one of his fantasies, but at this horrifying cost. I doubt any of the Two Rivers kids thought they'd ever leave, but that doesn't mean they didn't dream about it. bloom posted:To be fair desperately running from monsters that he until very recently thought were fairytales is probably not the sort of adventure he'd been daydreaming about. I think this is exactly what Jordan was going for, I just don't think he pulled it off as well as he could have is my point. By making Rand such a homebody early on, it makes the conversations he has stand out and that moment in Baerlon seems completely counter to his established character. "I once daydreamed about wandering around a city with a sword, better take this chance," really feels like it comes out of nowhere. Jordan should have found a way to mention pouring over that map in like the second or third chapter, not on page 300. It's not like there weren't plenty of moments where Rand was being reflective or remembering his childhood fairly early on.
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Sep 25, 2019 07:35
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Torrannor posted:The Towers of Midnight are both famous buildings in Seanchan, and another term for the Forsaken. And there was quite a lot of Forsaken action going on in ToM. I cannot for the life of me recall them being mentioned save for the prologue in one of the books.
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Sep 25, 2019 12:13
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Mad Hamish posted:I cannot for the life of me recall them being mentioned save for the prologue in one of the books. It's the prologue of the titular book, even! Definitely the worst title of the series.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:51
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Does Nynaeve's ability to sense people close by who she has healed ever get referenced outside of book 1? It's a minor plot point but I can't remember it ever coming up again.
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Sep 26, 2019 10:14
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Atlas Hugged posted:Does Nynaeve's ability to sense people close by who she has healed ever get referenced outside of book 1? It's a minor plot point but I can't remember it ever coming up again. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t.
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Sep 26, 2019 12:52
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I feel like it gets brought up again with other channelers but I could be crazy. I did enjoy that it helps to explain why she's such a good tracker in addition to "grew up huntin' with my dad" as she's been healing people in the village with the OP ever since she was an adolescent.
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Sep 26, 2019 13:06
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I feel like it gets brought up again with other channelers but I could be crazy. I did enjoy that it helps to explain why she's such a good tracker in addition to "grew up huntin' with my dad" as she's been healing people in the village with the OP ever since she was an adolescent. The Eye of the World has a very clever structure to it and does a lot of things right narratively. Nynaeve is a great example how a clever reader would be rewarded the same as someone doing a reread. When Nynaeve finds Moiraine after Shadar Logoth, Moiraine does the exposition dump of how she knew Nynaeve was there and a channeller, but if you pay attention and remember details from a hundred pages back, you'd realize that Rand showed all of those symptom as well in Baerlon after refreshing Bela. But there's just enough pages between the events that if you weren't looking for those details, you'd miss the connection altogether. But all the evidence you need to know that Rand is at the very least a channeller and probably the Dragon Reborn is in the first third of the novel. Apparatchik Magnet posted:I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. Which is a shame because characters are healing each other all the time throughout the novels and it would be a neat way for them to know where men or women they weren't bonded to were. It could even have been used to track specific members of the Black Ajah or other Darkfriends. I can't recall it ever being mentioned outside of book 1 and I had even forgotten that it existed in book 1 until this reread. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 02:55
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's in a lot of the dialogue, especially between him and Egwene. It comes up between him and the other boys as well. To me it's mostly just a case of telling and not showing, reminding us the reader that he deep down wants an adventure despite the thoughts in his head being exactly opposite. The sword thing in Baerlon stands out especially because it's himself saying, "Oh man I've been waiting for the day that I could wear a sword in a city," but the preceding 200 pages mention nothing of the sort. It's then dropped entirely until Shadar Logoth and the reference to the mayor's map, 100 pages later. This thread made me start a reread, and he does actually bring up that he's daydreamed about adventures, or talked about it with the other boys before. He doesn't say it to anyone, but it's part of his POV that he's wanted to go on an adventure.
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Sep 27, 2019 05:42
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seaborgium posted:This thread made me start a reread, and he does actually bring up that he's daydreamed about adventures, or talked about it with the other boys before. He doesn't say it to anyone, but it's part of his POV that he's wanted to go on an adventure. I'm curious where just because I may have glossed over it.
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Sep 27, 2019 09:36
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seaborgium posted:This thread made me start a reread, and he does actually bring up that he's daydreamed about adventures, or talked about it with the other boys before. He doesn't say it to anyone, but it's part of his POV that he's wanted to go on an adventure. Right, it makes sense. You're a boy from a small farm town. Adventure sounds great. Until your father is almost murdered, your hometown burns down, and now you are told you have no choice but to adventure or everyone you love will die. Oh and also your adventure will involve running from manifestations of evil chasing you that will eat you and your friends if they catch you. Ps you don't know anything about fighting have fun 
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Sep 27, 2019 12:36
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Oh yeah and one of you might be the reincarnation of the person who directly caused the breaking of the world and the tainting of the male half of the source. Good luck!
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Sep 27, 2019 13:25
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RC Cola posted:Right, it makes sense. You're a boy from a small farm town. Adventure sounds great. Until your father is almost murdered, your hometown burns down, and now you are told you have no choice but to adventure or everyone you love will die. I didn't say he still wanted to go on an adventure, he just wanted to when he was a kid. It did not turn out like he expected. Edit: Also, page 91 of Eye of the World he does say he daydreamed of going on adventures, and he talks about it several times once he grabs Tam's sword that he used to play around with Mat and Perrin like they were heroes. seaborgium fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 17:15
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seaborgium posted:I didn't say he still wanted to go on an adventure, he just wanted to when he was a kid. It did not turn out like he expected. 91 of the paper back is just him stumbling after Egwene. Maybe we should go back chapter markers?
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Sep 27, 2019 20:27
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Atlas Hugged posted:91 of the paper back is just him stumbling after Egwene. Maybe we should go back chapter markers? We should, I got one of the collections off Kindle. He just put Tam on the litter to drag him back, and he decides to strap the sword to his belt in Chapter 6.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:57
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It's also mentioned in whatever that first city is, but only internal monologue and I forget the tone.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:19
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Data Graham posted:Cause I mean the drivers have different names, their circumstances/geographical locations are described in detail... I don't know. The time loop in the traveling stone scene was amazing though, made up for the creepy kitchen bigtime.
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Sep 28, 2019 04:44
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:It's also mentioned in whatever that first city is, but only internal monologue and I forget the tone. Its funny how Baerlon feels like one of the biggest cities in the entire series because it was the first city they ever saw. Feels way bigger than Illian or any borderland city
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Sep 28, 2019 04:50
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https://twitter.com/rafejudkins/status/1176981248259936256
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Sep 28, 2019 13:43
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