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CharlestonJew posted:why were the shields down Same reason they didn’t run the anti-cloaking scan routinely, it's cheaper not to keep your defenses and your sensors engaged while you’re in combat
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Oct 4, 2019 20:04
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euphronius posted:I have no idea I wasn’t there you sure do post like you were
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Oct 4, 2019 20:05
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It's when you have conquered the entire rest of the galaxy and have the last vestiges of resistance trying desperately to pull a trick to escape from you, that cost saving measures are most important of all. Space fuel ain't cheap folks
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Oct 4, 2019 20:07
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Zoran posted:Same reason they didn’t run the anti-cloaking scan routinely, it's cheaper not to keep your defenses and your sensors engaged while you’re in combat They pulled two enormous spaceships out of their rear end but they couldn’t afford to keep the a/c running?
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Oct 4, 2019 20:09
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It shows that hux is arrogant. And he is. And that was a character flaw.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:11
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Speaks alot that the New Republic lost to a force led by a man who needlessly runs his war fleet in economy mode in the middle of battle
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Oct 4, 2019 20:17
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Truly, the only ones more pathetic and incompetent than hux are... all the heroes
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Oct 4, 2019 20:19
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Hux is shown to be competent in the movies. He’s has a few successes. But also arrogant to a fault in that he consistently underestimates the Rebels (probably based on his ideological views). In ww2 movie terms he’s the competent but blinkered and out of touch Nazi officer and the rest of the staff are world-weary Wehrmacht If you want to say being over arrogant is a form of incompetence ok. Sure
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Oct 4, 2019 20:25
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so when Holdo was sloooooooowly turning the ship around it never occured to Hux or the other commanders in charge of the other ships to put their shields up because she was going to ram them at hyperspeed?
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Oct 4, 2019 20:27
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It did but they were too late I haven’t seen the movie in a few months maybe I’m misremembering
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Oct 4, 2019 20:28
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euphronius posted:Hux is shown to be competent in the movies. He’s has a few successes. But also arrogant to a fault in that he consistently underestimates the Rebels (probably based on his ideological views). In ww2 movie terms he’s the competent but blinkered and out of touch Nazi officer and the rest of the staff are world-weary Wehrmacht An hour earlier in the context of the film the rebels just blew up their entire secret planet. Why would they have any reason not to be protective of their equipment when the last of the rebel’s are cornered and making what is clearly a desperate act of aggression? It’s stupid. It’d be characterization of hubris if the first order put up some big fancy shields and holdo’s maneuver just cut through it. Kart Barfunkel fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 20:33
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They're in a chase and the shields catch too much wind resistance
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Oct 4, 2019 21:19
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CharlestonJew posted:so when Holdo was sloooooooowly turning the ship around it never occured to Hux or the other commanders in charge of the other ships to put their shields up because she was going to ram them at hyperspeed?
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Oct 5, 2019 00:20
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FlamingLiberal posted:also if she was going to do that anyway she should have done it before the First Order wiped out most of the transports I can kind of understand that, since I think Holdo's plan was to just be a big obvious target for the FO to focus on and while they were killing her they wouldn't notice the little transports, at least until the anti-cloaking button pusher did his job
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Oct 5, 2019 00:34
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my preferred theory is that the anti-hyperspace tracking and the anti-ship crashing into you technology can't fit into the power outlet next to each other because their power bricks are too big and nobody wanted to go to the hassle of getting an extension cord
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Oct 5, 2019 00:47
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Every Star Destroyer should be an Interdictor to prevent hyperspace suicide runs.
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Oct 5, 2019 00:55
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euphronius posted:It shows that hux is arrogant. And he is. And that was a character flaw. Considering that the leaks point to Hux being the mole, leaving the shields down on purpose makes sense. Especially if he was in on knowing about the suicide bomb plan. An A-Wing crashing through the bridge took down the Executor. And crashing two Star Destroyers together and crashing "that" into a planetary shield led to the Death Star plans getting out and basically the whole government falling a few years after that. Holdo's suicide bombing is gonna have the same effect on the FO too with letting the Resistance escape and eventually win in IX. Han even exploits the fact that Star Destroyers don't handle collisions well at all to escape the fleet in the asteroids. A whole Destroyer is even destroyed when it takes one to the bridge later. The Empire's stock military tactics is probably just really bad at watching out for obvious poo poo like "What if *blank* crashes into the ship tho? Shouldn't we have shields/shock absorbers specifically for that?". It has definitely hurt their war effort dramatically at very costly times. It's a silent Achilles heel no one really talks about, which is pretty cool and likely realistic because poo poo like that "does" change history in real life. Real military around the world probably have similarly stupid blindspots that people in the know call out while those in charge are like "Nah, can't afford it and I don't like change. It'll be fine". Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 01:46
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Wasn't part of the reason they needed the hacker was so they could get through the shields of the big bad ship?
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Oct 5, 2019 02:12
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Dishwasher posted:Considering that the leaks point to Hux being the mole, leaving the shields down on purpose makes sense. Especially if he was in on knowing about the suicide bomb plan. lol?
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Oct 5, 2019 02:29
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Dishwasher posted:Considering that the leaks point to Hux being the mole, leaving the shields down on purpose makes sense. Especially if he was in on knowing about the suicide bomb plan. if the leaks are correct hux almost certainly didn't start feeding information to the rebels until kylo ren usurped him and snoke.
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Oct 5, 2019 03:30
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SolarFire2 posted:Wasn't part of the reason they needed the hacker was so they could get through the shields of the big bad ship? IIRC they needed to mimic the security codes for the big bad ship so the FO wouldn't immediately blow them to smithereens as soon as they approached the ship
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Oct 5, 2019 05:00
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The Hyperspace thing is a bit of a distraction because what Holdo does is just... ram a ship with another ship. Like it happens once or twice in Star Trek. Heck, the Enterprise almost does it against the Borg. It's incredibly effective. However, it's also really obvious that it's a huge waste of life and equipment, so the only people who make it a regular combat doctrine are the Jem Hadar, who are slave soldiers.
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Oct 5, 2019 06:46
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R. Guyovich posted:if the leaks are correct hux almost certainly didn't start feeding information to the rebels until kylo ren usurped him and snoke. Smart of him to throw in with the faction that is literally a dozen people. Glad he read the script in advance
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Oct 5, 2019 08:57
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Zoran posted:Smart of him to throw in with the faction that is literally a dozen people. Glad he read the script in advance Hux has a nose for plot armor. If you read the books and comics and played the video games you would know this.
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Oct 5, 2019 09:14
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Zoran posted:Smart of him to throw in with the faction that is literally a dozen people. Glad he read the script in advance It's probably more like trying to use them against a stronger rival.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:00
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Rumor has it that the trailer is going to be this Monday during Monday Night Football, not next Monday.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:16
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The MNF game day thread for the TFA trailer was magical
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Oct 5, 2019 10:30
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euphronius posted:They knew what she was doing and would have stopped it if they had their shields up “Their shields have a fractional refresh rate. Keeps anything traveling slower than lightspeed from getting through.” -Hans The baddies have zero defence against hyperspace kamikazes, except blowing the ship up before it can strike. It’s specifically their main weakness. The actual trouble with the hyperspace kamikaze attack is that it takes a long time to charge up, it has to be done at very close range and, (despite being flashy) it doesn’t actually accomplish much. I’m pretty sure none of the baddie ships are actually destroyed; it’s cosmetic damage. This leads to a dissonance between plot and narrative. The plot relies on Holdo’s attack being weak in order to explain why it’s exceptional and unexpected.
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Oct 5, 2019 13:22
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Hell yeah
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Oct 5, 2019 17:25
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I just rewetted the scene because I had no idea what you guys were talking about. Not only were the First Orders shields not down, the Raddus was within weapons range. Sure they at first thought the Raddus was a distraction, but the fact remains that you can easily get a ship in range and insta-kill a whole fleet. For that tradeoff Hyperspace Kamikaze's are the most cheap and cost effective tactic in Star Wars history.
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Oct 6, 2019 00:08
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Zoran posted:The MNF game day thread for the TFA trailer was magical Oh my gently caress I forgot all about this lmao
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Oct 6, 2019 00:57
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galagazombie posted:I just rewetted the scene because I had no idea what you guys were talking about. Not only were the First Orders shields not down, the Raddus was within weapons range. Sure they at first thought the Raddus was a distraction, but the fact remains that you can easily get a ship in range and insta-kill a whole fleet. For that tradeoff Hyperspace Kamikaze's are the most cheap and cost effective tactic in Star Wars history. Asteroids with hyperspace generators are the next big thing. trust me bro.
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Oct 6, 2019 14:32
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CharlestonJew posted:you sure do post like you were "Let me justify the terrible script a million times over but when I can't scrounge up horse poo poo out of my rear end I'll just handwave it!"
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Oct 6, 2019 17:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:“Their shields have a fractional refresh rate. Keeps anything traveling slower than lightspeed from getting through.” Cosmetic damage? The giant bad guy ship gets sliced almost in half and we several smaller Star Destroyer types getting cut into thirds.
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Oct 6, 2019 17:50
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sigher posted:"Let me justify the terrible script a million times over but when I can't scrounge up horse poo poo out of my rear end I'll just handwave it!" I said I haven’t seen it in awhile Also i don’t think it’s a great movie.
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Oct 6, 2019 17:56
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The kamikaze definitely totaled the targeted ships, but still didn’t matter much considering the first order has has an infinite amount of ships
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Oct 6, 2019 18:13
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perhaps the first order has found all the star maps
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Oct 6, 2019 18:25
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I'm pretty sure they've also charged all the crystals
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Oct 6, 2019 18:47
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galagazombie posted:I just rewetted the scene because I had no idea what you guys were talking about. Not only were the First Orders shields not down, the Raddus was within weapons range. Sure they at first thought the Raddus was a distraction, but the fact remains that you can easily get a ship in range and insta-kill a whole fleet. For that tradeoff Hyperspace Kamikaze's are the most cheap and cost effective tactic in Star Wars history. The tactical problem IS that you have to be within (close enough for shield penetration) weapons range. Like, ships actually traveling at lightspeed are functionally immaterial, so the kamikaze only works if you can place yourself at the exact distance such that your ship intersects the enemy ship right before you wink out of sight. So the maneuver has both a minimum and maximum range, and that range band puts you so close that the other ship can just blow you to pieces while you’re charging your hyperdrive, assuming they don’t just back up or turn out of your way. Holdo had the advantage that her target was training all its guns on the escaping lifeboats and ignoring her.
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Oct 6, 2019 21:46
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SolarFire2 posted:Cosmetic damage? The giant bad guy ship gets sliced almost in half and we several smaller Star Destroyer types getting cut into thirds. The idea of smashing into the enemy aircraft carrier at faster-than-light speed is immediately countered by the reality that there is no incredibly huge explosion. What actually happens is that chunks of each ship touched by The Radish are ‘pulled into hyperspace’ and, effectively, deleted. That’s the source of the dissonance: there’s a lengthy build-up to a massive explosion, “EXECUTE”, big close-up of a hand pressing that shiny red button, a blinding flash of light, God Himself pauses in terror as the universe falls silent.... But what happened? Seemingly all the ships are still operational, and the baddies have no trouble deploying a ton of troops and fighters down to the planet. Holdo accomplished a momentary distraction, but the guys who could hollow out an entire planet and convert it into a vacuum cleaner (that works in a vacuum) aren’t going to have any problem replacing the panelling on a half-dozen large boats. Ultimately, nobody cares that the ship is damaged. Hux and Kylo have an argument over who gets to lead the army. Then they evaluate what the Resistance are up to, casually assemble the troops, load them into transports, attach cables to the big cannon, and so-forth. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 21:51
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