|
Big Medic is a stoic warrior monk.
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 19:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 04:16 |
|
|
Well poo poo I didn't realize it took 7 years to do MGS5. I thought it was more like 4. Was he actually developing it that entire time or was there just a long lead-up to actual development?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 19:27
|
|
|
Colonel Whitey posted:Well poo poo I didn't realize it took 7 years to do MGS5. I thought it was more like 4. Was he actually developing it that entire time or was there just a long lead-up to actual development? Pretty sure that includes development of the engine too, right?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 19:27
|
|
|
Colonel Whitey posted:Well poo poo I didn't realize it took 7 years to do MGS5. I thought it was more like 4. Was he actually developing it that entire time or was there just a long lead-up to actual development? He had some other projects. I think he started MGR before handing it off to Platinum, and he was lead on Peacewalker. But those were relatively small. And a lot of the dev time was spent on the FOX Engine. But he made the FOX Engine for MGS5 so it still counts. He had plenty of time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 19:29
|
|
|
Yeah a great deal of time must have been spent building Fox Engine, and probably a lot of gameplay prototyping. MGSV was a massive overhaul of how MGS plays, they didn't come up with that perfect control scheme out of nowhere. I imagine Kojipro also spent a lot of time experimenting with motion capture and 3D scanning, given how much Kojima loves it and how much it's featured in the game. Seems like Sony is getting DS so quickly because Kojima doesn't need to repeat all that experimentation. They're getting the returns on Konami's investment, pretty slick.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 19:36
|
|
|
Venom talks a lot in the tapes, though? I assume those were all intended to be cutscenes that never got made. I mean I guess not a lot in the sense that 90% of the game is capturing bases in an open world but in the six or so plot-centric missions (and tapes related to them) he talks a normal amount. Also he's always saying "where are your friends"
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 19:55
|
|
|
He doesn’t really even in the tapes. Mostly just listens which is common for the series but I felt like Snake chimed in more still in the older games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:08
|
|
|
I also thought he was relatively quiet in the tapes. And the performance was flat, like the only direction he got was "you have a smoker's vocal cords and you're tired." How many hours in the recording booth do you really think it'd take for Kiefer to bang out all his lines? Especially if all the other performances were already recorded and available for him to act against, which is possible since he was the only marquee voice talent.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:14
|
|
|
acksplode posted:I also thought he was relatively quiet in the tapes. And the performance was flat, like the only direction he got was "you have a smoker's vocal cords and you're tired."  I recall Snake not even being a part of most tapes. The majority being comprised of Ocelot talking about Afghanistan, Kazburgers, and copulation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:Venom talks a lot in the tapes, though? I assume those were all intended to be cutscenes that never got made. I mean I guess not a lot in the sense that 90% of the game is capturing bases in an open world but in the six or so plot-centric missions (and tapes related to them) he talks a normal amount. QUIET. Spit it out. QUIET. Get down.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
While I think Venom being mostly mute was an intentional design choice (the Skull Face truck ride proves that), it was a bad one. I think it was supposed to be so that the player could more readily project their own personality onto Venom but that only makes sense from a meta level. On a textual level, it's difficult to reconcile Venom being stoic and silent with the idea that he is a memetic clone of Big Boss who is equally worshipped by his soldiers. Outside of one optional cutscene (the low-morale fight club scene), Venom never shows any hint of leadership directly to his soldiers. The rest of time, it's Miller and Ocelot giving the orders and interacting with the soldiers while Venom kind of lurks uncomfortably in the background. Venom being mute should have been a problem for the characters in the story. His distinct lack of personality should have been a source of tension on Mother Base that forced Miller and Ocelot to take the reins instead, which only creates more conflict because they have different priorities and ideas about what Diamond Dogs should be. This would in turn provide more evidence that Venom is an imperfect memetic clone that is being "punished" in Big Boss' place. They can change his face and give him Big Boss' memories, but they can't make him the same charismatic leader of a cult of personality that the real Big Boss is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:45
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:Venom never shows any hint of leadership directly to his soldiers. I think you'll find punching your own men at random and being thanked for it is the pinnacle of leadership
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:55
|
|
|
I am not clear on the timeline exactly, but when did Miller end up peacing out. Was it when Diamond Dogs got rolled into Outer Heaven or before? The tape with him and Ocelot more or less said "fuckin hate that guy, gunna train up his clone to kill him." Then again, Big Boss personally trained Snake, was Miller around for that? What. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 20:57
|
|
|
I assume the Skullface truck ride was also rife with cut content because there's no way the song awkwardly playing after his monologue was the way they intended it to play out, that's easily the first "wait what" moment that made me realize the game was super unfinished Like I kinda see the prologue in the hospital, the White Mamba fight and the MB mission where the team gets infected as three pretty distinctly 'complete' missions and while he doesn't have any lengthy monologues in any of them he has normal dialogue in each and that seems closer to the intent than the others? But then BB also has very little dialogue outside of the intro in GZ which is otherwise all Kaz talking at you so I dunno maybe he just decided it would be cooler if Kiefer didn't say much or that it looked weird for the PC to talk outside of cutscenes or something 
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 21:04
|
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:I assume the Skullface truck ride was also rife with cut content because there's no way the song awkwardly playing after his monologue was the way they intended it to play out, that's easily the first "wait what" moment that made me realize the game was super unfinished Was the deal there that the dialogue was longer in Japanese? I know some speedrunners switch languages to get through scenes faster - people speedrunning the game Infamous do so in Italian 'cause it has shorter dialogues and the game sometimes waits for dialogue to finish before carrying on
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
As always, plenty of ways to interpret everything, the ending cutscene for example to me was pretty badass. It signified that Big Boss was positive on how things had gone, in that message he sounded pretty positive on the whole Venom situation. Good enough for Big Boss, good enough for me. I can see where scrutiny may be coming from though, if we look at this as a realistic institution. Eventually the leader being aloof and the machine rolling on on autopilot may be noticed. Maybe Venom Snake gets a bit more talkative after the events of this game, comes out of his shell a bit. Cowabunga. That said, I tend to take the MGS plot in broadstrokes, MGSV to me felt like a cool adventure Hideo wanted to make. On how it fits into the already concluded plot of MGS (Solid Snake's life in 4, and already largely covered Big Boss's development in 3/PW), I looked at this game as a bonus chapter doing it's own thing. And while this has been discussed over the years, I don't feel what we got felt unfinished. The unfinished aspect to me would just be the stuff we didn't get, the dropped subplots such as the stuff with Liquid. What we got was still a very impressive game to me. That would almost feel just like a DLC we didn't get. I don't think something like the Skullface ride for example was unpolished or anything. But everybody gets a different vibe from things. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 4, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2019 21:11
|
|
|
I like MGSV, but I feel like the Skull Face truck ride scene is the product of someone using a monkey's paw to wish away the use of any more live-action/stock footage from MGS games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 03:26
|
|
|
acksplode posted:Yeah, more than any in-game explanation, you have to resolve the question of why they cast Kiefer Sutherland, used his name in marketing materials, and then had him voice a nearly mute character. I think that surprised everyone, it suggests something weird going on backstage. It seems like Konami couldn't get much more commitment from him, for whatever reason. The most active involvement I think he had in promoting the game was a few seconds of prerecorded stuff played at trade shows. Norman Reedus and everyone else involved with Death Stranding seem way more engaged, none of them are acting like they're cashing a paycheck. Kiefer Sutherland just preferred Hayter Snake, obviously. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 03:55
|
|
|
I think i mentioned it before on the thread, it was something along the lines of Freakazoid being Big Boss, and Venom/We being his biggest fan/sidekick, and through convoluted Kojima poo poo, we have become the Freakazoid. Everybody wants to be the iconic character, and it would've been seemingly less interesting if you just simply be Big Boss's character this time. I think if MGSV was done well, Big Boss and Venom Snake would've been my favorite characters, because the end of MGS4 and MGS5 proved that Ocelot managed to fool this loving system that was so ahead of it's time and ten steps ahead of everything through Hypnotism. Buuuuut MGSV was severely unfinished and bogged down in infighting, so I'll just stick with Solid Snake on this one. Still saved the world many times despite the poo poo hands he was given, and by the 4th one, he (or you the player) was determined to see it through even though everyone told him that it wasn't his fight. Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Oct 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 04:45
|
|
|
Fargin Icehole posted:I think i mentioned it before on the thread, it was something along the lines of Freakazoid being Big Boss, and Venom/We being his biggest fan/sidekick, and through convoluted Kojima poo poo, we have become the Freakazoid. Everybody wants to be the iconic character, and it would've been seemingly less interesting if you just simply be Big Boss's character this time. That's what he was going for, but it fell flat, obviously. That is a lot of people's issue. I can appreciate what he was trying to set up, but the narrative didn't deliver. I'm not going to poo poo all over the game for that, but it is what it is. For me at least, Peace Walker didn't really show Big Boss falling, and I was really hoping that Phantom Pain would. The bait and switch with Big Medic I don't even mind, but it wasn't allowed to play out fully and so it ended up feeling hollow.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 08:46
|
|
|
I've always wondered how much of the stuff in Chapter 2 is intentional and how much of it is the result of the game being unfinished because Peace Walker made you do a similar bunch of jumping through stupid hoops to get it's real ending
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 11:26
|
|
|
Fargin Icehole posted:I think i mentioned it before on the thread, it was something along the lines of Freakazoid being Big Boss, and Venom/We being his biggest fan/sidekick, and through convoluted Kojima poo poo, we have become the Freakazoid. You know, it's a funny thing. Nobody likes poo gas, my friend.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 14:36
|
|
|
Akuma posted:The real Big Boss never shuts up, though, in the opening and ending. Keifer not having many lines of dialogue for Venom is the real phantom pain. Wolfsheim posted:Venom talks a lot in the tapes, though? I assume those were all intended to be cutscenes that never got made. I mean I guess not a lot in the sense that 90% of the game is capturing bases in an open world but in the six or so plot-centric missions (and tapes related to them) he talks a normal amount. I think the "Venom doesn't talk during actual gameplay except to bark orders at people he's holding up/pet the dog/whatever" is a fully intentional choice but the rest seems like Development/Budget Problems. Meridian posted:For me at least, Peace Walker didn't really show Big Boss falling, and I was really hoping that Phantom Pain would. The bait and switch with Big Medic I don't even mind, but it wasn't allowed to play out fully and so it ended up feeling hollow. Purple Monkey posted:I've always wondered how much of the stuff in Chapter 2 is intentional and how much of it is the result of the game being unfinished because Peace Walker made you do a similar bunch of jumping through stupid hoops to get it's real ending  MGSV has a very big "NEXT TIME ON! THE GAME'S NOT OVER! THERE'S MORE PLOT! PLEASE DON'T STOP PLAYING HERE!", which I assume is a reaciton to how a lot of people missed that there was more plot. And you had to do a lot more and less clearly labeled stuff to get to it in Peace Walker. Grind up all the parts you need to finish Zeke! Play Hide and Seek like five times, with very little in the way of hints! etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 14:49
|
|
|
In Peacewalker, BB becomes a villain just not a typical cartoon video game villain. He’s not going to murder indiscriminately or take over the world, but he is now all about himself and making his own rules by then. There’s no higher cause. Also he has nukes. Then in MGS5 he becomes what he hates.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 15:32
|
|
|
Venom had more lines originally - think someone dug them out of the game files - but then Kojima saw Drive and was so amazed by the stoic quiet main character that he decided Venom should be like that too. Yes, really.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 16:18
|
|
|
What was the given reason for getting Keifer Sutherland
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 16:24
|
|
|
https://youtu.be/FE0DWgA2Um4 Personally I dont think theres anything wrong with Kiefers performance. If I had a sharpnel the size of an orange embedded in my skull and an amputated arm, I'd sound like I was tired of this poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 16:46
|
|
|
Look Sir Droids posted:In Peacewalker, BB becomes a villain just not a typical cartoon video game villain. He’s not going to murder indiscriminately or take over the world, but he is now all about himself and making his own rules by then. There’s no higher cause. Also he has nukes. Big Boss was always a villain. He was a villain for years before he became a hero and in the game where he was a hero, it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to be a villain and the game was just about explaining why that happened. The Boss thought soldiers were worthlss tools of the state with no real will of their own. Pawns to be directed hither and thither and then thrown away. So we can draw on all the stuff said in MG2, MGS1 and MGS2 to conclude "so Big Boss decided that if soldiers are just pawns of governments, I'll make a government run for and by soldiers!" There was no need for anything after that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 16:55
|
|
|
If PW and MGSV didnt exist nobody would question why Big Boss is the main villain in MG1 after the events of MGS3.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 17:04
|
|
|
That’s because of all the excellent character development in Portable Ops.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 17:33
|
|
|
It is interesting how every game could have worked as the end of the series. Just pick your preferred ending and let that be your headcanon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
WaltherFeng posted:If PW and MGSV didnt exist nobody would question why Big Boss is the main villain in MG1 after the events of MGS3.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 18:54
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Honestly, the scene where LBJ awards him the title of Big Boss in return for having fuckin murdered The Boss and been a pawn all game seems like it leads into MG1 just fine, yeah. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 19:03
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Honestly, the scene where LBJ awards him the title of Big Boss in return for having fuckin murdered The Boss and been a pawn all game seems like it leads into MG1 just fine, yeah. Yeah. Kojima just can’t help making subtext text.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 19:11
|
|
|
Watching The Guns of Navarone rn. Kojima has good rear end taste in movies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 5, 2019 22:08
|
|
|
Hot Take: Peace Walker is an unnecessary chapter that retroactively damages the plot of MGS3 and the Boss's character through dumb retcons, and doesn't actually show Big Boss "fall" until the very end when he inexplicably decides the Boss betrayed him and that MSF isn't just a business, but an ideal. This is all before Paz reveals that actually it was all part of Zero's plan to immortalize Big Boss and use his army to support his own... secret organization? That needs a symbol for some reason??? MGSV is even worse, because gameplay and narrative elements that were used in the goofy Teen rated portable game are now being used in the gritty, gory hard M rated open-world game. I don't mind the Fultoning, but needing to rebuild the private army again is bad, and flies in the face of what was made out to be a fairly conclusive ending in PW. Taking light-hearted characters and either scarring them or killing them didn't make me appreciate the contrast, I just realized that I didn't need to care about them anymore because they had ceased being relevant to the plot. And yeah, it's all from Big Boss's perspective and "no one sees themself as the villain", except that Big Boss had literally prevented all out nuclear war in Cuba and reined in a crazy CIA plot, which is pretty heroic if you ask me. And don't get me started on Skullface and Cipher, and their shoehorned backstories. It's unnecessary retcons all the way down. Hell, even if I think PW's story was dumb, it still contributed to the Metal Gear mythos and history by showing Big Boss reestablish his credentials or whatever with the US government and also build a massive personal army, which paves the way to where he's at in Metal Gear 1 and 2. Phantom Pain contributes literally nothing of value
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 03:25
|
|
|
It just occurred to me how bizarre it is that when you're talking to the Winds after beat them in MGR that they like, hack and gurgle like they're spitting up blood. Monsoon, you're like, a head. You have no vocal chords, let alone lungs to expel air through them, you should sound normal!
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 14:23
|
|
|
People having casual conversations while incredibly dead is a tradition in the Metal Gear series.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 15:25
|
|
|
K8.0 posted:People having casual conversations while incredibly dead is a tradition in the Metal Gear series. How hard would it be to deliver a monologue like Wolf did while having a hole in your lung? Also one of the best lines in all of Metal Gear happens while a man is being eaten alive by birds Vulcan Raven: Snake, in the natural world, there is no such thing as boundless slaughter; there is always an end to it. But you are different... The path you walk on has no end. Each step you take is paved with the corpses of your enemies. Their souls will haunt you forever. You shall have no peace.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 19:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 04:16 |
|
|
I know most people already agree that MGS1 is better than The Twin Snakes but I like how in MGS1 Snake has a small healthbar to start off with but it increases with each boss fight. I'm not sure if it was purely for gameplay difficulty or if it had story significance. I interpret it as Snake starting off in a really bad way but with each successive battle he becomes more and more in touch with who he is. Liquid does have that comment about how he saw Snake's face during each battle and it was "filled with the joy of battle." So the health bar represents Snake getting healthier in away. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it. I can never tell if I'm giving Kojima too much credit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2019 12:03
|
|