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Jesus Sam - missing the entire point.
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Oct 6, 2019 20:26
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To me the most helpful way to think about these things is by analogy to a television commercial--other than length, there's no objective difference between a commercial and "cinema". And certainly commercials can be well-crafted and make people cry and feel happy and so forth. AND some movies have product placement. But I think there's some subjective line out there where the gestalt flops over from noble artistic endeavor to cynical marketing operation. Personally I'm pretty lenient about this stuff (I thought Aquaman was pretty okay) but the Marvel movies clearly cross the line. They're evil.
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Oct 6, 2019 20:30
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McCloud posted:I actually wrote up a post where my definition of how "cinematic" a movie is depends on how well it uses cinematography, score, actors/actresses and script to convey ideas, themes and character development, but writing that I also realized that I considered movies with an idea or theme I agreed with more cinematic than those I didn't. People certainly receive movies that align with their ideologies more favorably, but, as SMG succinctly articulated, films, in order to be perceived as films, have specific objective properties. A film's "filmness" is what Scorsese is addressing, as it would make no sense to call Marvel movies literally not films. There is a collapse of meaning that occurs without having this conceptual framework in place, so we fall back to "everything is subjective" teagone posted:Sam Jackson's thoughts on Scorsese's comment: like Jackson does here.
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Oct 6, 2019 20:32
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Joker is on pace to make as much money as Justice League did in its opening weekend. There’s going to be a great book written some day about the production and collapse of Justice League and the DCEU in general
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Oct 6, 2019 20:43
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And always remember that Warners were taken aback by the reaction and absolute box office failure of Justice League as they thought they had “fixed” the movie.
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Oct 6, 2019 20:47
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As it turns out nobody really knows what cinema is
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Oct 6, 2019 20:47
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RBA Starblade posted:As it turns out nobody really knows what cinema is Cinema is inside all of us.
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Oct 6, 2019 21:02
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The real cinema is the friends we made along the way
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Oct 6, 2019 21:12
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In conclusion, cinema is a land of contrasts
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Oct 6, 2019 21:18
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Judakel posted:He didn't disrespect the filmmakers. He was just honest about what those movies are. Also, he did stop making gangster movies. You're just a dullard. Yeah I know it's sad, I'll look forward to his next film.....about a hitman from the Bufalino crime family starring like 7 people from previous gangster works of his. Ha ha ha, nobody cares about quality and everyone is going to poo poo on the old man that makes great films and there's nothing you can do about it.
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Oct 6, 2019 21:21
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jesus christ we get it, you want to hard kiss Martin Scorsese on the lips so bad. This has been going on for like, five pages now.
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Oct 6, 2019 21:22
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I mean this is Netflix we're talking about. They produce their stuff based on algorithms.
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Oct 6, 2019 21:25
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Scorsese has made like 5 gangster movies. Meanwhile the MCU consists of 20+ movies and they’re all more or less the same
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Oct 6, 2019 21:26
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sponges posted:Scorsese has made like 5 gangster movies. Meanwhile the MCU consists of 20+ movies and they’re all more or less the same How dare you! Doctor Strange has a funny cape, whereas Iron Man clwarly does not!
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Oct 6, 2019 21:31
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https://twitter.com/JamesUrbaniak/status/1180273508380622849
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Oct 6, 2019 21:33
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Mulva posted:Yeah I know it's sad, I'll look forward to his next film.....about a hitman from the Bufalino crime family starring like 7 people from previous gangster works of his. You have poo poo taste in movies and nobody is making GBS threads on him.
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Oct 6, 2019 22:10
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KVeezy3 posted:People certainly receive movies that align with their ideologies more favorably, but, as SMG succinctly articulated, films, in order to be perceived as films, have specific objective properties. A film's "filmness" is what Scorsese is addressing, as it would make no sense to call Marvel movies literally not films. There is a collapse of meaning that occurs without having this conceptual framework in place, so we fall back to "everything is subjective" Addressing a film’s filminess is hard if you’ve never watched it, ie what Gunn was saying in his first tweet https://twitter.com/jamesgunn/status/1180217947324915712?s=21
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Oct 6, 2019 22:19
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Judakel posted:You have poo poo taste in movies and nobody is making GBS threads on him. You just burned Martin Scorsese. High five! Bringing out the Dead is probably my second favorite film of his and I'm let down that only one person leapt to it's defense. e: vvv It's more like saying a tv show is bad when you've never watched it. "Yeah, but I already know what it is.". No, you don't. You can say it doesn't interest you, but you have no idea what the gently caress it is. You've never seen it. Mulva fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 22:29
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Then it's really no different from people whining about calling a tv show bad even if you haven't seen every episode or haven't gotten to "the good ones" yet. Gunn should just shut up and be glad his films weren't the ones that gave Scorsese his fairly accurate opinion.
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Oct 6, 2019 22:30
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This is a dumb as gently caress argument and I think a lot of problems could have been solved by Scorsese articulating his point better. He could have just said "They're not the kind of cinema experiences I enjoy." Instead he said "That's not cinema." Sure, he goes on to clarify, but that doesn't matter. He hosed up with his statement.
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Oct 6, 2019 22:51
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Scorsese also said that he had watched a few of the MCU movies. He didn't name them so heck for all we know maybe GotG was one of them. Tho even if it wasn't if you're trying to watch a series of 20-something films and you have a bad time with the first few, why would you continue?
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Oct 6, 2019 23:05
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Also worth noting that Kieth Richards' favorite musical genre is reggae followed closely by american blues. I don't think a 75 year old rock guitarist saying "rap mostly sucks" is enough evidence to suggest he's a loving racist or something.
BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 6, 2019 |
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Oct 6, 2019 23:27
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Mordiceius posted:He hosed up with his statement. No he didnt. He shouldn't have to tiptoe around his opinion to make sure he doesn't upset crybabies.
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Oct 6, 2019 23:38
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Mordiceius posted:This is a dumb as gently caress argument and I think a lot of problems could have been solved by Scorsese articulating his point better. He articulated his point better by going on to clarify. He only issued the sort of blanket statement people are criticizing if you take a fragment of his comments in isolation. At that point, if people are going to act in bad faith, there's no way to offer an opinion without someone being able to manufacture some way in which you hosed up.
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Oct 6, 2019 23:55
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Now let's head over to cinemasins and see how many sins Scorsese has racked up compared to the marvel universe...
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Oct 6, 2019 23:58
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Mulva posted:You just burned Martin Scorsese. High five! Bringing out the dead is one of his worst movies, so the comment stands. Mordiceius posted:This is a dumb as gently caress argument and I think a lot of problems could have been solved by Scorsese articulating his point better. Why couch it with that, though? I don't think most people consider those films artful, cinematic, or containing the virtues that make cinema as an art form so special. Hell, the majority of people watching those films have no basis on which to think of films in that sense. Judakel fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 00:05
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Judakel posted:Bringing out the dead is one of his worst movies, so the comment stands. It's not even one of his worst films of that decade, and that was a strong decade for him creatively.
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Oct 7, 2019 00:14
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Goffer posted:Addressing a film’s filminess is hard if you’ve never watched it, ie what Gunn was saying in his first tweet Scorsese said he's tried to watch them. I don't have to read all of Jordan Peterson's work to make a competent judgement of him, despite his fans' protestations.
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Oct 7, 2019 00:33
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The Cameo posted:And always remember that Warners were taken aback by the reaction and absolute box office failure of Justice League as they thought they had “fixed” the movie. This is something I will always cherish.
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Oct 7, 2019 00:48
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The Cameo posted:And always remember that Warners were taken aback by the reaction and absolute box office failure of Justice League as they thought they had “fixed” the movie. Remember when they held back the unveiling of the movie's RT score? They must have known something was up.
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Oct 7, 2019 00:53
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teagone posted:Sam Jackson's thoughts on Scorsese's comment: lmao as if Sam Jackson is watching these loving movies in his spare time, he's not gonna bite the hand that feeds though
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Oct 7, 2019 00:57
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SLJ is one of the least precious actors and I'll always respect that.
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Oct 7, 2019 01:03
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Necrothatcher posted:Remember when they held back the unveiling of the movie's RT score? They must have known something was up. Imagine being one of the studio flacks that first press screening. That movie was warmed over poo poo and there’s no way the press wasn’t showing how bad it was on their faces once the lights went back up.
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Oct 7, 2019 01:17
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Blast Fantasto posted:Joker is on pace to make as much money as Justice League did in its opening weekend. It makes me wonder if the Snyder cut of Batman V Superman would have been more financially successful than the gutted PG13 cut.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:01
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Blast Fantasto posted:Joker is on pace to make as much money as Justice League did in its opening weekend. The Cameo posted:And always remember that Warners were taken aback by the reaction and absolute box office failure of Justice League as they thought they had “fixed” the movie. And also remember that the production budget on Joker was perhaps $60 million and the production budget on Justice League was five times bigger at an estimated $300 million. God alone knows how high the advertising budget went. 
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Oct 7, 2019 02:20
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ghostwritingduck posted:It makes me wonder if the Snyder cut of Batman V Superman would have been more financially successful than the gutted PG13 cut. Not cut at that length.
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Oct 7, 2019 02:25
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KVeezy3 posted:People certainly receive movies that align with their ideologies more favorably, but, as SMG succinctly articulated, films, in order to be perceived as films, have specific objective properties. A film's "filmness" is what Scorsese is addressing, as it would make no sense to call Marvel movies literally not films. Right: Marvel movies obviously are movies. They have editing and cinematography, and so-forth. Scorsese’s point is simply that nobody is watching these things for the cinematography. If you actually do pay attention to the cinematography in Avengers 1, and read it in terms of that cinematography, you might notice that the entire movie is presented ‘open matte’ with the wrong aspect ratio. You might also agree with Wally Pfister: "What's really important is storytelling. None of it matters if it doesn't support the story. I thought The Avengers was an appalling film. They'd shoot from some odd angle and I'd think, ‘why is the camera there? Oh, I see, because they spent half a million on the set and they have to show it off.’ It took me completely out of the movie. I was driven bonkers by that illogical form of storytelling." As with Scorsese, Pfister is making a very specific statement here. He is not (just) saying that Avengers is bad. He is saying that he approached it as a piece of cinema, but couldn’t follow the visual narrative of the film because there was little narrative logic to the shot choices. The shots were chosen instead, in his estimation, to show off the expensive sets. This is the key distinction between the cinema Scorsese is talking about and whatever the Disney fans are talking about. Avengers is arguably fairly good at presenting an elaborate simulation of a magical flying aircraft carrier, but it is very bad at telling a story about that aircraft carrier using stuff like ‘camera angles’ and ‘lighting’. Contrast the depiction of the Avengers ship with, say, the Nostromo in the opening scenes of Alien. The latter is inarguably more cinematic.
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Oct 7, 2019 03:01
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The MCU films aren't really designed to be films. They're episodes of a television show that feature people you like and want to spend time with. They're explicitly designed to function like this from a narrative, stylistic and marketing point of view. It's actually why they've worked as well as they have. Scorsese identified their primary trait, their defining feature. Also, you don't get to make smooshed down mass produced films where even really distinctive directors barely have any distinction and also have one of the embodiments of auteur directing praise them. You can't have it both ways.
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Oct 7, 2019 03:53
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Mulva posted:It's not even one of his worst films of that decade, and that was a strong decade for him creatively. It is pretty bland film and easily the worst of that decade for him. An attempt to return to what he used to make in the 70s, before finding his footing again with new material like Silence and The Departed.
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Oct 7, 2019 04:54
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Judakel posted:It is pretty bland film and easily the worst of that decade for him. An attempt to return to what he used to make in the 70s, before finding his footing again with new material like Silence and The Departed. In no reality do Casino or Kundun beat Bringing out the Dead, that is just crazy talk. Kundun is striking, but suffers as an actual film. Casino coming so close to Goodfellas just made me think "Man, I should go watch Goodfellas.", as DeNiro and Pesci were both better in that film. The most memorable aspect of 2/3rds of the main cast in that film is their deaths, because God was I glad to see them go. I'd hear arguments about the other four, but based on sheer impact I probably would have to give Goodfellas the nod for his best that decade, although I have to respect the gently caress out of The Age of Innocence. Cape Fear is probably second. I put Age with Kundun of his films that decade that are so perfectly what they were intended to be, even if what they were intended to be is not necessarily widely popular subjects. Bringing out the Dead is at worst a middling film for that year, a year in which he was taking some big swings. The 00s didn't really have anything that was him pushing himself or experimenting. Mulva fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 06:55
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