|
on the one hand, Joker shows us protesters carrying "kill the rich" signs, so I'm rather inclined to think that the director isn't actually sympathetic to the left and is beating us over the head that this message is supposed to be extremist on the other hand these people totally loving deserved it. If you're going to implement austerity, you had better be prepared to have enough police to kill every dissident.
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 12:45 |
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:on the one hand, Joker shows us protesters carrying "kill the rich" signs, so I'm rather inclined to think that the director isn't actually sympathetic to the left and is beating us over the head that this message is supposed to be extremist I always like the comment by Mark Blyth on how the Hamptons is not a defensible position.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 03:50
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:love being a rube who thinks philanthropy isn't a scam i've created several wage-slave ventures that have mildly aggressive targets for positive outcomes in dealing with disadvantaged people though!!!!
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 03:54
|
|
|
The politics of any comic book property is gonna be suss just because it's by nature going to be a product of the most industry conforming Hollywood lifers so, at best, it's gonna be the product of some twerpy neolib who writes a story that tries to wrestle with the grim reality that there are people to the left of them by writing said lefties as villains that make some cool speeches before getting outed as insincere or crazy, or it's gonna be some mental grimdark poo poo written by a conservative that's so slow action dinosaur brained that they haven't realized they stopped being punk 20 years ago and are well on their way to being straight up fascist.
mysterious frankie has issued a correction as of 05:29 on Oct 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 05:25
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:on the one hand, Joker shows us protesters carrying "kill the rich" signs, so I'm rather inclined to think that the director isn't actually sympathetic to the left and is beating us over the head that this message is supposed to be extremist this is what i thought before i saw the movie, but it never really shows the protesters doing anything bad. like the obvious comparison is tdkr, where nolan went out of his way to show stuff like the rioters beating up defenseless people, holding kangaroo court trials leading to executions and had catwoman be appalled at something as simple as people taking over a rich person's mansion and living in it. nolan clearly wanted you to think this stuff was bad. todd phillips is a much worse filmmaker, so he doesn't have this element in the film. the protesters-turned-rioters are set off by the government cuts and sanitation worker strike > joker killing three finance bros on the subway > cops pursuing joker killing a random protester > joker admitting to the killings on live tv and then killing murray franklin. then we see rioters and looters burning cop cars, fighting the police and smashing storefronts etc. there's just no scene that shows them going too far, or doing something that an average audience member would consider beyond the pale. the cops suck, and no one cares when they killed beat down and their poo poo gets destroyed. i don't think the movie has a pro-leftist message, but it uses the visual language of anti-capitalism and revolt and is either too lazy or too dumb to show you why you should think those things are bad thomas wayne, usually a saintly figure in batman lore, is a major dick who goes on tv and talks about how rich people who "made something" of themselves will always see poor people as clowns so long as they protest. and wayne never gets a redemption. when he gets gunned down in the alley, do you feel bad for him? i didn't, and the movie never even tries to make you like him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 05:26
|
|
|
Serf posted:this is what i thought before i saw the movie, but it never really shows the protesters doing anything bad. like the obvious comparison is tdkr, where nolan went out of his way to show stuff like the rioters beating up defenseless people, holding kangaroo court trials leading to executions and had catwoman be appalled at something as simple as people taking over a rich person's mansion and living in it. nolan clearly wanted you to think this stuff was bad. todd phillips is a much worse filmmaker, so he doesn't have this element in the film. the protesters-turned-rioters are set off by the government cuts and sanitation worker strike > joker killing three finance bros on the subway > cops pursuing joker killing a random protester > joker admitting to the killings on live tv and then killing murray franklin. then we see rioters and looters burning cop cars, fighting the police and smashing storefronts etc. there's just no scene that shows them going too far, or doing something that an average audience member would consider beyond the pale. the cops suck, and no one cares when they killed beat down and their poo poo gets destroyed. i don't think the movie has a pro-leftist message, but it uses the visual language of anti-capitalism and revolt and is either too lazy or too dumb to show you why you should think those things are bad I just wish other superhero flicks were subject to this kind of scrutiny. Mainstream outlets never run articles about what idolizing Batman could do to a kid, and even if they wanted to they would be stopped because page 8 is an ad of Alfred Pennyworth vaping.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 05:36
|
|
|
i wonder how many idiot parents are going to take their kids to see joker because they consider superhero movies to inherently be tame family friendly depictions of violent murder well lets be fair i could write that sentence about pretty much any superhero movie couldnt i
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 07:58
|
|
|
I mean murder happens in kids movies as well. The only real divide is how explicit the killing is
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 08:02
|
|
|
in ye olde pop culture news i just watched the old kirk douglass flick there was a crooked man its a decent enough prison break western with kirk douglass in the lead role as a charismatic thief and murderer with a huge chunk of cash stashed in the middle of nowhere its a well done genre story with good performances but the politics just wow very explicitly taking the hard line that prison reform is for naive morons that they are cold blooded killers who will slit anyones throat at a moments notice and that they should never be allowed privileges or basic humanity under the slightest circumstances lest they murder us all an extremely appropriate movie to ring in the seventies oh yeah theres also a huge chinese guy whos treated like a stupid animal and the climax features a sequence that implies a woman is about to be gang raped by prisoners out of control and then theres the horny widow scene anyway my point is that random old movies can be surprisingly gross and horrifying thanks for reading
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 11:17
|
|
|
saw joker last night and the worst part for me was that it was called joker. the batman related content within the film is so minor that you could change just two details (gotham > new york, thomas wayne > thomas smith) and not lose anything and i feel like it would have been a stronger film for it. hell you could still have phoenix be a clown-themed psycho and keep all of those elements and plot beats and it would still make sense in the context of the film if it wasn't titled "joker" i feel like somebody wrote a completely serviceable love letter to falling down and then WB found it and paid them to make it about the iconic villain The Joker in the most tenuous way possible. also if you read the leaked script from a few weeks back, it was nearly 100% dead-on accurate, so if you don't want to see the movie but for some reason still crave a plot synopsis, just google the leak
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 13:58
|
|
|
Freaking Crumbum posted:saw joker last night and the worst part for me was that it was called joker. It's functionally similar to Falling Down, except that Falling Down is an angry authoritarian who know what things should be, whereas Joker gradually moves from care bear to nihilist. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:19
|
|
|
nightcrawler absolutely wants you to hate the main character so it's more of a critique than an endorsement of psychopaths that thrive in capitalism falling down is a really hosed up movie drive's soundtrack slaps and has really beautiful cinematography
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:24
|
|
|
Percelus posted:nightcrawler absolutely wants you to hate the main character so it's more of a critique than an endorsement of psychopaths that thrive in capitalism Of all of these movies Drive is the most certain that the protagonist is actually a hero. I hate it. It's pretty, some of the music is good. The dialogue is poo poo/hilariously absent and the story is rancid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:31
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:i wonder how many idiot parents are going to take their kids to see joker because they consider superhero movies to inherently be tame family friendly depictions of violent murder see also: watchmen
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:36
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:see also: watchmen Someone brought an infant to Once Upon A Time in Hollywood. The baby was thankfully.... quiet. However, rather than realizing their mistake, the parents took a couple "Baby's first movie!" selfies mid-film.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:38
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:see also: watchmen that reminds me i wonder how the the new hbo series is shaping up Wikipedia posted:The series takes place in Tulsa, Oklahoma in an alternative reality in 2019—one with no internet or smartphones—34 years after the comic ends. Robert Redford is the longest-serving President of the United States, having been elected in 1992. After a white supremacy group of Rorschach followers that call themselves "The Seventh Cavalry" (wearing homemade Rorschach masks) commits simultaneous attacks on the houses of police members, the police start wearing masks. somehow i am not optimistic
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:43
|
|
|
that watchman series has Nixon serve five terms because he conquered and annexed Vietnam
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 16:51
|
|
|
yeah its the dumbest part of the book that really highlights how moore knew absolutely nothing about nixon vietnam or american politics given that nixon is basically depicted as a god emperor responsible for literally every bad thing that happens in the background joke casting robert redford as a seven term follow up president in a world thats obviously gone to hell seems like an odd worldbuilding decision
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 17:02
|
|
|
MasterSitsu posted:It's functionally similar to Falling Down, except that Falling Down is an angry authoritarian who know what things should be, whereas Joker gradually moves from care bear to nihilist. of those four films, i definitely enjoy nightcrawler the most. jake is the right mix of insane-below-the-surface and subjectively persuasive about his twisted views that he makes a great villain drive really felt more like "what if roadhouse but swayze was a psychopathic murderer" to me when i watched it (years ago whenever it was released) joker was honestly "meh". the batman elements were so minimal it feels disingenuous to call it a superhero movie. the biggest narrative inconsistency for me was when phoenix sticks his hands into kid-bruce's mouth and kid-bruce just stands there and lets it happen with no reaction. i don't know a child alive (especially a rich pampered child) that would just stand indifferently while a random stranger tries to stick their fingers in their mouth
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 17:23
|
|
|
MasterSitsu posted:Of all of these movies Drive is the most certain that the protagonist is actually a hero. I hate it. It's pretty, some of the music is good. The dialogue is poo poo/hilariously absent and the story is rancid. I watched Drive expecting to love it and it just ended up being intensely boring. Nightcrawler is great though, because Jake Gyllenhaal's character completely internalizes the transactional ideology of late stage capitalism and it's intensely horrifying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 17:28
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdGnP_QVFe8
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 19:11
|
|
|
mysterious frankie posted:The politics of any comic book property is gonna be suss just because it's by nature going to be a product of the most industry conforming Hollywood lifers so, at best, it's gonna be the product of some twerpy neolib who writes a story that tries to wrestle with the grim reality that there are people to the left of them by writing said lefties as villains that make some cool speeches before getting outed as insincere or crazy, or it's gonna be some mental grimdark poo poo written by a conservative that's so slow action dinosaur brained that they haven't realized they stopped being punk 20 years ago and are well on their way to being straight up fascist. This isn't remotely true lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 20:38
|
|
|
Like unless you mean movies and poo poo which absolutely but there's plenty of dudes that get on books that the company doesn't give a poo poo about and go batshit with it and when the company realizes they're arguing for murdering Jeff bezos it's too late because the book is popular
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 20:42
|
|
|
Freaking Crumbum posted:saw joker last night and the worst part for me was that it was called joker. WB/DC can't compete on the same ground as Disney/Marvel Universe, so they typically give their directors and creative talent more freedom That, and the international market doesn't reward think-y type films, is how we get the Joker as a Scorsese-lite film BENGHAZI 2 posted:Like unless you mean movies and poo poo which absolutely but there's plenty of dudes that get on books that the company doesn't give a poo poo about and go batshit with it and when the company realizes they're arguing for murdering Jeff bezos it's too late because the book is popular Big studios screen their films extensively with test audiences. It would not at all be surprising if the watering-down happens because a test audience somewhere said the film was 'slow' or 'boring' in places.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:02
|
|
|
what DC doesn’t give more freedom. Their meddling is part of why they just aren’t as successful.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:04
|
|
|
BENGHAZI 2 posted:Like unless you mean movies and poo poo which absolutely but there's plenty of dudes that get on books that the company doesn't give a poo poo about and go batshit with it and when the company realizes they're arguing for murdering Jeff bezos it's too late because the book is popular What book did this?
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:05
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:what DC doesn’t give more freedom. Their meddling is part of why they just aren’t as successful. Justice League and Suicide Squad were failures at WB's attempt to create a DC cinematic universe, Joker is more of a return to form via Todd Phillips of The Hangover Trilogy, another successful WB franchise and cultivated relationship Chris Nolan basically ran the show with Dark Knight Peter Jackson with LOTR/The Hobbit Disney is certainly stronger managing from the top-down, but I'm not sure whether WB is better at finding exceptional talent to let run loose, or is lucky just enough to stay in business (RIP every Superman revival)
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
Man Musk posted:Justice League and Suicide Squad were failures at WB's attempt to create a DC cinematic universe DC's "Arrowverse" TV line is arguably a more successful shared universe than their film line is and I can't decide if that's in spite of their not being able to use the big name characters regularly or because of it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:34
|
|
|
docbeard posted:DC's "Arrowverse" TV line is arguably a more successful shared universe than their film line is and I can't decide if that's in spite of their not being able to use the big name characters regularly or because of it. considering gotham and supergirl are better received than the movies i'm going with in spite of a campy show with baby bruce wayne mostly starring gay lovers penguin and riddler was better than the zack snyder films
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:44
|
|
|
I think it’s because they don’t really care about those shows and aren’t desperate to catch up with Marvel. DC would be fine if they followed Marvels plan but they want to take shortcuts and it blows up every time. that and letting Zack Snyder run rampant
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 21:46
|
|
|
BENGHAZI 2 posted:This isn't remotely true lmao I was talking about comic book movies, hence the "hollywood lifers" part of the post.
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 22:41
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:What book did this? i mean im exaggerating but mark russell has made an ok career out of doing blatant leftist propaganda and getting away with it because he does it on books dc doesnt pay any attention to
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
shazam was the first decent comic book movie in years because it felt like a dude went what if i did big but he could fly and it was about family and then he made that movie and it was fine, i enjoyed it infinitely more than every designed by committee marvel movie
|
|
#
?
Oct 6, 2019 23:40
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:the device between trash and art or whatever is such a useless bougie point of view. one hundred percent correct
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 00:00
|
|
|
Freaking Crumbum posted:joker was honestly "meh". the batman elements were so minimal it feels disingenuous to call it a superhero movie. the biggest narrative inconsistency for me was when phoenix sticks his hands into kid-bruce's mouth and kid-bruce just stands there and lets it happen with no reaction. i don't know a child alive (especially a rich pampered child) that would just stand indifferently while a random stranger tries to stick their fingers in their mouth Joker correctly diagnosing Bruce as on the spectrum is a good thing, as for as I'm concerned, since that's probably the only way good way to portray Batman going forward lest you just have people pretending he's a libertarian shithead instead.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
ben affleck was already playing him like that though
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 00:07
|
|
|
Also, hot take, but I feel like Wonder Woman is a better film than most people give it credit for because in context of multitudes of genre films accepting war as a necessity, it at least somewhat critiqued the idea and necessity of war even as it tried also to make a contingent of the Germans proto-Nazis too, which wasn't great. But there was at least some hankering for peace as opposed to, "What's important is vanquishing our enemies, hoo-rah." And it even felt somewhat critical of the idea of personality politics being the center of resistance efforts with the twist being killing one dude doesn't solve the whole thing (though it again kinda undercut it by killing... one other dude, but hey, it was the Allies war-profiteer, so progress). It has issues, but it's one of the best DC films, and in some ways more tonally consistent than Shazam.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:I think it’s because they don’t really care about those shows and aren’t desperate to catch up with Marvel. I think this is exactly it. There's no way in hell they'd let Legends of Tomorrow get away with half the stuff they pull if they actually gave a poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 00:48
|
|
|
docbeard posted:I think this is exactly it. There's no way in hell they'd let Legends of Tomorrow get away with half the stuff they pull if they actually gave a poo poo. A typical Hollywood producer would look at you like you took all of the drugs if you proposed a movie based off of Legends of Tomorrow. Otoh, Guardians of the Galaxy exists and it's basically "rag tag team of weirdos save the universe" so who knows.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 00:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 12:45 |
|
|
Man Musk posted:That, and the international market doesn't reward think-y type films, is how we get the Joker as a Scorsese-lite film this always seemed like such a bullshit "foreigners are dumb" piece of conventional wisdom
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2019 01:13
|
|
