Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


EbolaIvory posted:

Zero setup outside of plugging it in and it has as pretty drat good display if you're in the IPD range for it.

Yeah the LCD screen on the S is a bit sharper and has less screen door than the Quest's pentile OLED screen despite having slightly less resolution on paper. Assuming you're in the IPD range.

It can be the difference between aircraft displays and instruments being readable and them being a blurry mess.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Yeah the LCD screen on the S is a bit sharper and has less screen door than the Quest's pentile OLED screen despite having slightly less resolution on paper. Assuming you're in the IPD range.

It can be the difference between aircraft displays and instruments being readable and them being a blurry mess.

If sims are your main concern though, the Reverb still seems the best way to go.

The Big Bad Worf
Jan 26, 2004
Quad-greatness
I bought an Oculus Rift S. First impressions were good-ish. I was happy to have Beat Saber in my house, finally. Clarity seemed fine at first, it didn't take too long to find a decent position on my head where one eye wasn't noticeably blurred compared to another when looking straight ahead. After using it for a few days, I think I'm starting to get a feel for some of the problems that having a mismatched IPD can introduce (I have 66.5, slightly biased towards my right side, the rift S has a fixed IPD of 63.5). If I really pull the headset down onto my face as low and as close as it will sit, cinch it to my head and also bring in the relief as close as the headset allows, clarity is good and I'm even afforded the chance to look around the lenses a tiny bit. It doesn't necessarily get blurry right away if I look away from the center, but the fact that I am physically incapable of looking directly through the perfect center of both lenses simultaneously means that I see certain artifacts sooner in one eye than I might in the other. The best fit for clarity I can muster has the left lens shell sitting directly on my nose, which isn't super comfortable. Looking left might introduce some blur in my left eye, but I still get good clarity in my right. Looking up or down, I get chromatic aberration in one eye sooner than the other. So on and so forth. It's not intolerable, but if a headset CAN do better, I'm interested.

No current adjustable IPD solution will correct for the slight bias towards my right eye, but I have to wonder; would a different headset allow for a more comfortable fit with similar, or perhaps greater clarity than I can currently get in the rift S? What is it like to look through the Index? Does their dual element lens design allow you to more freely look away from the center of the lenses while still retaining reasonable clarity? I don't expect it to be 100% going from edge to edge, but if it's improved substantially, I'd like to know.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Hadlock posted:

What is better about the S for fight sims?

There's also the extra frames, which is extremely minor. More important is that it actually is able to run flight sims.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



The comfort factor maybe good point in favor of Rift S, you are going to play long sessions with flight sims.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008
Yeah if I’m sloppy putting the quest on I’ll get a headache after a long session of bear saber but not with the S.

Nalin
Sep 29, 2007

Hair Elf

The Big Bad Worf posted:

No current adjustable IPD solution will correct for the slight bias towards my right eye, but I have to wonder; would a different headset allow for a more comfortable fit with similar, or perhaps greater clarity than I can currently get in the rift S? What is it like to look through the Index? Does their dual element lens design allow you to more freely look away from the center of the lenses while still retaining reasonable clarity? I don't expect it to be 100% going from edge to edge, but if it's improved substantially, I'd like to know.

I've heard that the Index has good visual clarity. At least better than the original Vive. Not as good as the Oculus lenses, but good enough that you only start to lose focus at the very edges. Incidentally, the Index is also the only answer to your question. The Oculus Quest has mechanical IPD, but it is not as comfortable as the Rift S. The only headset that has the comfort you want with the mechanical IPD you need is the Index. Sorry buddy.

EDIT: Somebody will probably reply and say how dare I not consider WMR headsets. This is my preemptive gently caress you.

Question Time
Sep 12, 2010



Played some Pavlov recently - it’s a lot more polished and fun that it was a year ago, with new game modes as well. I’m glad to see it’s still getting developed, and I’ll definitely be going back to it again.

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Yeah if I’m sloppy putting the quest on I’ll get a headache after a long session of bear saber but not with the S.

You might benefit from a counter weight. Humans can carry a crazy amount of weight on their heads with no issue if it's well balanced.

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

Nalin posted:

I've heard that the Index has good visual clarity. At least better than the original Vive. Not as good as the Oculus lenses, but good enough that you only start to lose focus at the very edges. Incidentally, the Index is also the only answer to your question. The Oculus Quest has mechanical IPD, but it is not as comfortable as the Rift S. The only headset that has the comfort you want with the mechanical IPD you need is the Index. Sorry buddy.

EDIT: Somebody will probably reply and say how dare I not consider WMR headsets. This is my preemptive gently caress you.

Index has extremely good visual clarity, nice large FOV as well. 144hz is great. It really helps cover up any frame rate issues.

Often with 90 it ends up jumping between 45/90 when it's having issues. with 144 it can choose much more minor changes so it's not nearly as jarring when issues popup.

Index is without a doubt the best HMD right now. Also keep in mind it only costs $500 if you already have lighthouses + controllers. For sim people with Hotos, getting a Index + Lighthouse for $770 is totally a reasonable solution. I'd say it's a shame to miss out on a ton of great VR content by not having hand controllers but many people use VR for only a single experience.

Oh, also you only need one lighthouse for sitting VR (as long as you don't turn all the way around). So if you're a simmer you can setup two location, or split the light house costs with someone else (for $270 you get 2 lighthouses).

The Big Bad Worf
Jan 26, 2004
Quad-greatness

Nalin posted:

I've heard that the Index has good visual clarity. At least better than the original Vive. Not as good as the Oculus lenses, but good enough that you only start to lose focus at the very edges. Incidentally, the Index is also the only answer to your question. The Oculus Quest has mechanical IPD, but it is not as comfortable as the Rift S. The only headset that has the comfort you want with the mechanical IPD you need is the Index. Sorry buddy.

EDIT: Somebody will probably reply and say how dare I not consider WMR headsets. This is my preemptive gently caress you.

I was starting to suspect this might be the case, sadly enough. I've been thinking about whether or not picking up a used rift or vive might be an option, but I'm not sure how much of a step back the optics are compared to the rift s, or if that might be a moot point since I'm not getting optimal clarity from the rift s anyway. And yeah, wmr isn't an option for my use case since I need something that can track beat Saber.

Leaning more towards the index since if something goes wrong (or I just hate it), returning a new item or getting support for it is much easier than getting support for an item that's no longer manufactured.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


As awesome as the Index looks I just have a hard time recommending it to people because of the price, especially as a first VR headset. I would never recommend it to someone starting out.

I could buy a Rift S and two Quests for the price of one Index setup. It's just so much more expensive that it really only makes sense for an enthusiast who knows they want to heavily use VR.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug
I played some VR for the first time this weekend on a room scale Vive in this family fun center setting. Even with one of the two headphones not giving any sound, Beat Saber blew my mind.

While I've got a beefyish PC, I'm still staring at the Quest because of the room requirements and portability.

Odds of any sort of holiday deal are basically 0 for it right?

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Does Oculus have any plans to do an "enthusiast" grade hardware in the near future?

Thinking I might get an Index with my Spring bonus to upgrade from my CV1 and really show off my mighty PC, but if Oculus is planning something comperable it seems like it would be less hassle to play Steam stuff on an Oculus platform than the other way around, and I do have a few purchases in the Oculus store.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Owlbear Camus posted:

Does Oculus have any plans to do an "enthusiast" grade hardware in the near future?

they had a prototype thing with a bunch of cool poo poo that would probably cost $1000 but rumours say it got dropped.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008

Truga posted:

they had a prototype thing with a bunch of cool poo poo that would probably cost $1000 but rumours say it got dropped.

They're doing crazy research on stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCB_mfGmh9w&t=6123s electronic varifocal, but I wouldn't bet on any hardware based on this being released in a consumer package anytime soon. They seem pretty set on the idea of only releasing stuff that has mass market viability.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
yeah what i meant, $1000 would be the lowest possible price for all that, just for the hmd probably

TIP
Mar 21, 2006

Your move, creep.



Lemming posted:

They're doing crazy research on stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCB_mfGmh9w&t=6123s electronic varifocal, but I wouldn't bet on any hardware based on this being released in a consumer package anytime soon. They seem pretty set on the idea of only releasing stuff that has mass market viability.

That electronic varifocal is loving amazing, both in the tiny form factor, and in the fact that it has no moving parts. That should really simplify manufacturing and increase the reliability.

I don't see Oculus releasing anything other than a Quest refresh in the next couple years, but maybe in 3-4 years they'll release something with this tech. It definitely requires getting eye tracking perfect and universally usable.

Looking forward to the hybrid Quest/Rift 2 with varifocal, wide fov, built in wireless PC play, and foveated rendering all in this form factor.



:circlefap:

EbolaIvory
Jul 6, 2007

NOM NOM NOM

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

As awesome as the Index looks I just have a hard time recommending it to people because of the price, especially as a first VR headset. I would never recommend it to someone starting out.

I could buy a Rift S and two Quests for the price of one Index setup. It's just so much more expensive that it really only makes sense for an enthusiast who knows they want to heavily use VR.

This is what this thread forgets.

Goons don't tend to think about non Goons and Non enthusiasts.

I'm 100% vive pro + Wireless + index controllers master race over here, I'd never swap to an index unless wireless hits. I'd NEVER recommend this setup to a normal person. Maybe people who can light money on fire, but even then, is wireless worth 1300 bucks to some people? Because thats basically the difference between the Index and my setup.

400 is cheap. Its a good entry point, and saying "oh the index is the best buy it" to most people would put a lot of them off simply due to price tag. Nicer or not.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...
The difference in optics quality with the Index and RiftS regarding edge to edge clarity is splitting hairs at best, but the Index has a much, much wider FOV. So overall for clarity and quality the Index wins by a pretty fair amount.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Honestly to someone who isn't already invested and wants to dip their toe into PCVR... if it weren't for the at-best iffy status of replacement cords, the best introductory option is a secondhand CV1 setup off someone who upgraded for ~$220-240. I have no ragrets and may pick up a basic VR-ready PC to hook it up to for local multiplayer VR if it's still working when I upgrade.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I've heard the Quest has a lesser fov than other headsets, can anyone confirm / deny?

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

ItBreathes posted:

I've heard the Quest has a lesser fov than other headsets, can anyone confirm / deny?

Similar FOV to CV1, unknown for S, less than Vive, much less than Index.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...
The Rift S and Quest both have a similar fov to the CV1

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK
Cybernetic Crumb
I read a bit more regarding the Index vs Pimax 5k question, and yea, it looks like the Index really comes out on top.

The 5k's widest view angle (200 degrees) is a marketing lie (they measured it in the diagonals, not horizontally). It actually is something like 170 degrees.

The problem is that those 170 degrees REALLY stresses your hardware, and also introduces some very noticeable distortions at the edges of your view. The distortions might or might not be fixed in future versions of their driver software.

Their medium setting (150 degrees) is much more usable right now - a clear image and a manageable hardware load. But that's just 10 degrees better than the index. Also those 10 degrees are completely in your peripheral vision, and as such are not that noticeable.

So yea, the index is the better package for now.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

Nektu posted:

I read a bit more regarding the Index vs Pimax 5k question, and yea, it looks like the Index really comes out on top.

The 5k's widest view angle (200 degrees) is a marketing lie (they measured it in the diagonals, not horizontally). It actually is something like 170 degrees.

The problem is that those 170 degrees REALLY stresses your hardware, and also introduces some very noticeable distortions at the edges of your view. The distortions might or might not be fixed in future versions of their driver software.

Their medium setting (150 degrees) is much more usable right now - a clear image and a manageable hardware load. But that's just 10 degrees better than the index. Also those 10 degrees are completely in your peripheral vision, and as such are not that noticeable.

So yea, the index is the better package for now.

There are so many other HMD feature categories where the Pimax is a steaming pile of garbage (irrespective of what is good in the current class of HMDs) and the Index is best in class, the Pimax might as well not exist.
Bad things like plastic cracking under a month of normal use, PiTool causing issues with SteamVR / OculusVR (it’s not a native SteamVR device) and overall shadiness of the company it’s just not worth dealing with.

EbolaIvory
Jul 6, 2007

NOM NOM NOM

rage-saq posted:

There are so many other HMD feature categories where the Pimax is a steaming pile of garbage (irrespective of what is good in the current class of HMDs) and the Index is best in class, the Pimax might as well not exist.
Bad things like plastic cracking under a month of normal use, PiTool causing issues with SteamVR / OculusVR (it’s not a native SteamVR device) and overall shadiness of the company it’s just not worth dealing with.

I think Bandoot really liked his. I think.

I swear he used it for quite a while.

EDIT: Not that its good. Please satan don't take it that way.

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

EbolaIvory posted:

I think Bandoot really liked his. I think.

I swear he used it for quite a while.

EDIT: Not that its good. Please satan don't take it that way.

I think he switched to an Index when they were available?

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy
Last time I was messing with a Quest, I really liked putting a battery on the back to counterbalance it. This time I ordered a Vive Deluxe Strap to try with it, hopefully that can reduce side play? I have the unfortunate situation of narrow IPD and a strong nose, so if there's any side-to-side at all, the lens moldings whack into the bridge of my nose since there's only a few millimeters of space between.

EbolaIvory
Jul 6, 2007

NOM NOM NOM

rage-saq posted:

I think he switched to an Index when they were available?

Oh yeah, Soon as he got his index he bounced off that pimax.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Zero VGS posted:

Last time I was messing with a Quest, I really liked putting a battery on the back to counterbalance it. This time I ordered a Vive Deluxe Strap to try with it, hopefully that can reduce side play? I have the unfortunate situation of narrow IPD and a strong nose, so if there's any side-to-side at all, the lens moldings whack into the bridge of my nose since there's only a few millimeters of space between.

Yeah, finding some way to tape or strap a bunch of coins to the back of the Quest headstrap goes a long way towards balancing it better and taking the weight off your face and moving it to the top of your head where it's much more comfortable.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy

Gort posted:

Yeah, finding some way to tape or strap a bunch of coins to the back of the Quest headstrap goes a long way towards balancing it better and taking the weight off your face and moving it to the top of your head where it's much more comfortable.

Right, though I mean, $18 gets you a powerbank and velcro for more than 3x the battery time, while still solving the counterweight issue:

$15 after coupon https://www.amazon.com/INIU-High-Speed-Flashlight-Powerbank-Compatible/dp/B07CZDXDG8

$3.22 https://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-Reusable-Fastening-Organizing/dp/B0006BB9MG/

None of that deals with side-play though so I'll let people know if the Deluxe Strap helps that specifically.

Clitch
Feb 26, 2002

I lived through
Donald Trump's presidency
and all I got was
this lousy virus
The ratchet mechanism on the DAS makes me thing of some of the swankier hard hat suspensions I've seen. I'm probably going to experiment with adapting one for my Quest, because that's the kind of redneck engineering I get into.

TIP
Mar 21, 2006

Your move, creep.



Clitch posted:

The ratchet mechanism on the DAS makes me thing of some of the swankier hard hat suspensions I've seen. I'm probably going to experiment with adapting one for my Quest, because that's the kind of redneck engineering I get into.

What are you gonna do for audio?

If I ever get a Quest I think I'm definitely gonna do the DAS, as it knocks out both of my biggest issues with it, and it looks like you can find it for about $60 pretty easily. Hard to beat that price for a fancy strap and headphones.

Clitch
Feb 26, 2002

I lived through
Donald Trump's presidency
and all I got was
this lousy virus

Tip posted:

What are you gonna do for audio?

If I ever get a Quest I think I'm definitely gonna do the DAS, as it knocks out both of my biggest issues with it, and it looks like you can find it for about $60 pretty easily. Hard to beat that price for a fancy strap and headphones.

I use earbuds even for regular PC gaming because I just don't like wearing OTE headphones. I have a comfortable set already, so I'll just use those or adapt something similar.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug
Are there any apps out there for 3d data analysis using a vr headset? I'm a statistician who would love to explore real 3d scatterplots

EbolaIvory
Jul 6, 2007

NOM NOM NOM

Tip posted:

What are you gonna do for audio?

If I ever get a Quest I think I'm definitely gonna do the DAS, as it knocks out both of my biggest issues with it, and it looks like you can find it for about $60 pretty easily. Hard to beat that price for a fancy strap and headphones.

Can't wait to slap my DAS (braaaaaand new) on my quest. Printer came today so hopefully by this weekend.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy
I haven't checked up on it for a while, are there any available PC -> Quest stream apps besides Virtual Desktop (sideloaded), ALVR, and VRidge?

Seems like ALVR hasn't had updates since May 31, and VRidge much longer than that.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

There's an experimental fork of ALVR here: https://github.com/JackD83/ALVR/releases/tag/ev7

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy

SCheeseman posted:

There's an experimental fork of ALVR here: https://github.com/JackD83/ALVR/releases/tag/ev7

Ah thanks, this one seems to work well enough.

I wonder if there's a VR app that will count frames so I can try to do a photo of lens and monitor at the same time, to compare latency with the different apps in their current state.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply