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Jerusalem, no need to apologize for writing 90% of the words in a thread, man. Been a while since I watched this season but, even reading about it, the more I dislike Tony B as a catalyst or even as a central figure. His presence just repeatedly resonates with me as "cool actor we got for the show" and so little of what he does feels earned to me. Buscemi is a fine actor and I don't have a problem with the character, at least in a vacuum, but his whole presence is forced here. I GUESS we're supposed to be made to feel and notice that "earning an honest living is much harder than doing crime so 'gently caress it, I'm back in'. Put me in coach" but do we really NEED this particular new character to convey that? *sorry for jumping ahead in episodes* Even his freakout beating of the guy who was nice/coming around to him and helping him feels forced and out of nowhere; a lame excuse to get him into a plot contrivance that could have easily been filled by an existing character. The poo poo he sets off later would especially have worked better if they'd have used Chris being the one who fucks up again. Or, even better, some other character that actually had nothing to with Peeps getting whacked but who was unfairly blamed for it anyway. Or use any number of existing characters who are pissed about not earning enough so they cut a side deal and never figure to get caught, which ups the drama since now Tony Soprano doesn't know who to believe, etc. poo poo, have Paulie do it since he's already established and been shown trying to curry favor with the NY crew. As it shook out, we're supposed to feel all this emotional weight behind Tony's "gently caress you. He's my cousin" and his eventual decision to kill him anyway (except in a painless way without the torture Phil wanted) and the gravitas is practically non existent. At least for me. The Wegler character's "weaponized pussy" line was ice cold and brutal to the bone too but it rang true for the character. I know a lot "brutally honest" intellectuals who think they're doing the world a favor by "telling it like it is". I've been guilty of it several times myself. I think it goes to the heart of not being able to escape from the things that connect us in the first place - how we meet, who we know, our past, who we think we are, the roles we play and the ways our lives even intersect to start with. Wegler wasn't the least bit afraid of Tony because, in his world, it wasn't REAL to him. But people being opportunistic and wielding influence WAS so when he caught HIMSELF doing the same subtle yet still strong arming tactics with AJ's academic counselor or whatever, suddenly he could relate. I don't think Carmela was intentionally "using" him at all, so much as trying to be happy and "pay back" Tony with one of her 100 get out of jail free cards, taking some physical pleasure for herself after letting that sweaty fat pig ride her for years and her glowing smile made me happy to see. We're tragically shown here, though, how AJ's problems (as an extensions of Tony's) permeate everything even if it's not a direct violent threat. I wonder too about the meaning behind Carm's "watch your step" warning and whether it was a veiled threat of retaliatory violence, an admonishment to treat her with respect or some combination of the two. I read it with a double meaning myself; her way of saying "mind your manners" combined with an "I KNOW people" implied threat that was a natural defensive reaction to not only being hurt and shamed but WRONGED. Wegler's accusation missed the mark I think but I get how, rationally, he sees it that way even though he's a complete dick about it. And Tony Soprano's smug loving face when his cousin wants back in made me hate that dude. Again. He needs everybody to need him. That childish power play with AJ and the cereal bowl, for instance. His reactions sometimes are a lot like when a drug user who goes to rehab, gets shade from their friends when he tries to clean up and then gets welcomed with open arms when he caves and finally asks for a hit. Suddenly his user friends like him again since he's not only back in the fold, but no longer better than them - or trying to be better at all. Recall the intentional rise he provoked in Jan after her anger management course and how happy he was when he made her mad.
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Oct 12, 2019 17:22
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Mr Kim   Big Success JourneyPope Corky the IX posted:No reason at all to apologize. Not disputing your theory but I am pretty sure he had actually gained some weight again at the start of this season. Also agree that Father Jughead hasn't changed one iota since Season One and was being spiteful because Carmella had found some fulfillment in her life that didn't involve him. crispix fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 21:04
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I still remember first watching this episode and being so happy for Carmela for finding somebody new, and seeing it all fall apart is really devastating. But it easy to forget that she's far from perfect and does in fact like to use people to get what she wants, and it is really fascinating to see her out on her own, have something fall apart due to her own actions (and her new boyfriend's, he's not blameless at all) and see how she immediately twists that around into somehow being Tony's fault rather than her own.Pope Corky the IX posted:EDIT 2.0: I think Rosalie says "jigs" as in "jigaboos" not "chinks" I'm sure she did too, but the subtitles list it as chinks which I found weird, and when I listened back again it actually kinda sounds to me like they might have overdubbed the word slightly. I don't know why they would have, especially as Jackie was killed in a predominantly black neighborhood so the "jigs" slur makes (nasty) sense, but I decided to go with what was officially listed.
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Oct 12, 2019 22:11
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Tony B really does feel like he needs more than one season to be a full character, maybe to show him backsliding into The Life. I'm with BiggerBoat, this feels like the show's only real stunt casting* and they got somebody great but they tried to give him an arc that should have lasted longer. *Aside from when it was, you know, appropriate like with the Executive Game.
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Oct 12, 2019 23:34
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It definitely feels like stuntcasting, even though Buscemi was involved in the show from very early on as a director. Speaking of which, this episode was directed by Peter Bogdanovich (who plays Elliot Kupferberg, Melfi's therapist) which I thought was pretty cool since it was during a significant gap in his directing career.
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Oct 13, 2019 00:14
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The problem with Tony B is that its so hard to even imagine him in the shows timeline. Like him and T.S. have been super close since they were small kids up until he went to prison but noone but Artie who was around during that time (Sil, Paulie, Junior) ever acts like they'v encountered Tony B before. Noone reminisces with him, Junior never even shares a scene with him. At least with Ralph people act like they've known and hated him for a while and hes fleshed out a bit with the story of him running with Tony and Sil and Jackie Sr. All we're given for Tony B is some weak hi-jacking story.
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Oct 13, 2019 09:53
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There is an attempt made at least with Christopher during the episode where they head up to the farm to move bodies that have been buried up there and they talk about how they bullied Chrissy as a kid, but that's more about Christopher than Tony B really.
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Oct 13, 2019 11:10
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Jerusalem posted:It definitely feels like stuntcasting, even though Buscemi was involved in the show from very early on as a director. I don't think you mentioned it, though I may have missed it, but Sunshine, the dealer that Jackie Jr. kills, is Paul Mazursky, director of Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice, Harry and Tonto, an Unmarried Woman, and Moscow on the Hudson.
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Oct 13, 2019 13:08
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I just watched that ending posted back on p9 "no more Butchie" Holy gently caress that song. That would be unnerving without the show Someone needs to dub it over Manolo and Gina looking at each other at Tony's wedding
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Oct 13, 2019 23:48
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codo27 posted:I just watched that ending posted back on p9 "no more Butchie" Holy gently caress that song. That would be unnerving without the show IIRC David Chase heard that song decades ago and knew he'd want to put it in a movie/show one of these days. That hug between Christopher and Tony was amazing, with their eyes glazed over as soon as they're hugging.
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Oct 14, 2019 13:05
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I can't not post it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KgB-sI2H-c
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Oct 14, 2019 13:39
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I mentioned how I laughed at the clip of Paulie throwing the chair, I don't remember my reaction the first time I saw that episode. We came to it last night and I laughed so hard, prob top 3 most/hardest laughing I've done in my life, basically the whole rest of the episode. Could barely keep up with what was going on. Throwing a chair at loving ghosts. How daft is poor Paulie at all. It was great seeing up until and since that I haven't been able to get out of my head "it's bloody this it's bloody that"
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Oct 14, 2019 15:29
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For some reason, Paulie screaming,"loving QUEERS!" at the ghosts while he throws the chair at them is what makes me laugh the most. Maybe because it's just such a bizarre thing to say, but I still laugh just thinking about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0b7jp4qXM&t=149s Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Oct 15, 2019 |
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Oct 15, 2019 00:17
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Jerusalem posted:Season 4, Episode 10 - The Strong, Silent Type I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to chime in on this episode. The first time I watched it, Imperioli's performance had me sobbing uncontrollably. I was about a year sober at that point and either Imperioli himself or someone very close to him has to be an addict, because he knocked it out of the park. He does it so, so well. The basically emotionless nature of him when he kills the dog, the way he's constantly trying to hide how high he is and how often, his addiction taking him to dangerous places, suddenly making friends that enable him, growing angry with those that love him because they won't support what he's doing... Then you come to the intervention scene, which still stands as one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Others have already touched on why, so I'll leave that, but I really want to address his sit-down in the hospital. As you said, Tony lays it all out for him, but I think he breaks down for a different reason than Jerusalem said. He'd given it everything he could, and he was utterly beaten. He'd been trying to hide from himself how bad it had really become, in spite of all the chaos it was causing him, and at that moment when he chokes out in utter despair 'how the gently caress did it get to this?'it just all came crashing home just how utterly hosed he was. I've seen more than a few people at that point in their lives, and he got it absolutely 100% spot on.
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Oct 16, 2019 08:28
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to chime in on this episode. I also wanted to mention for this episode, props to whoever noticed Eddie from the Park is wearing The Jacket. He wears it better than Tony, Richie, or Stasiu tbh
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Oct 16, 2019 13:48
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Page 25 in the thread. So mad I didn't find it earlier and I missed chiming in on so many points. I dont really see Pussy's sudden story about the 26yo acupuncturist being an attempt to get in their good graces, he knows he is done. One last laugh along with the shots, the most dignified farewell he has available to him at that point. It did always bother me though that they are firing multiple guns down for'd in a boat. I mean okay, they ain't bazookas or anything but I feel like there gotta be some chance a bullet could pass through Puss or miss and go through the hull. Its only fibreglass. The most mindblowing thing to me about the show is how they call tomato sauce "gravy". But I understand that I'm not only Canadian, but from the east coast too so the way we consume actual gravy here is already off the charts relative to anywhere else even in Canada, but especially when compared with the states. Friends say when they go to restaurants when traveling down there that they get weird looks asking for it, and then you have places like Denny's who will give you...white  gravy. Had thanksgiving dinner on Sunday and its truly tragic to my personal health how much gravy I use when we have those big dinners. My sister in law calls what I do "gravy soup". Also, gently caress you whoever posted that mulholland drive hobo. Or well, mentioned it and then I had to youtube it.
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Oct 16, 2019 14:31
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:He does it so, so well. The basically emotionless nature of him when he kills the dog, the way he's constantly trying to hide how high he is and how often, his addiction taking him to dangerous places, suddenly making friends that enable him, growing angry with those that love him because they won't support what he's doing... She must've crawled under there for warmth...
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Oct 16, 2019 16:14
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Why doesn't Chris just not do drugs? Tony likes to eat eggplant but he doesn't because it upsets his stomach. Learn some self control, Chrissy.
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Oct 16, 2019 16:20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSlX36QP_po&t=89s Artie is the best. 
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Oct 16, 2019 16:41
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codo27 posted:The most mindblowing thing to me about the show is how they call tomato sauce "gravy". But I understand that I'm not only Canadian, but from the east coast too so the way we consume actual gravy here is already off the charts relative to anywhere else even in Canada, but especially when compared with the states. Friends say when they go to restaurants when traveling down there that they get weird looks asking for it, and then you have places like Denny's who will give you...white Out of curiosity, calling sauce gravy might have come from Italian immigrants wanting to fit in. Even though we of course ate putsi before they gave us the gift of their cuisine.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:46
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MrMojok posted:Christopher was always my favorite character. I guess because his character was exactly the same age I was, while the show was originally airing. A dumb reason, I know. Of all the poo poo Tony did on this show, THAT stands out to me among the worst. The way he happily walks down the front steps out in the street - something about the fact that it was fall, leaves on the ground - Tony was also a dead, decaying thing.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:08
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Agent Burt Macklin posted:Of all the poo poo Tony did on this show, THAT stands out to me among the worst. The way he happily walks down the front steps out in the street - something about the fact that it was fall, leaves on the ground - Tony was also a dead, decaying thing. It was Janice though. She was a complete piece of poo poo, too 
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Oct 16, 2019 19:21
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Vichan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSlX36QP_po&t=89s Sopranos was decades ahead of it's time. It showed how debilitating being hit by milkshake was at a political rally long before anyone else was having this conversation.
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Oct 17, 2019 00:18
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It's also funny twenty years later with Governor Andy Cuomo freely throwing the n-word around during a radio interview to illustrate how much Italian Americans are being persecuted, and his brother Chris insisting being called Fredo is just as bad as a black person being called the n-word.
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Oct 17, 2019 00:23
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It's also funny twenty years later with Governor Andy Cuomo freely throwing the n-word around during a radio interview to illustrate how much Italian Americans are being persecuted, and his brother Chris insisting being called Fredo is just as bad as a black person being called the n-word. So they were about a second away from talking about their ancestors braving the Middle Passage?
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Oct 17, 2019 01:21
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I know we all have too much TV/other things to watch and things to do relative to our free time but for a look at more white collar crime, you really ought to watch Boss with Kelsey Grammer which tragically only lasted 2 seasons, owing to airing on a network I dont think many people had ever heard of. Such a good show and like this, with characters you will remember for a long time.
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Oct 17, 2019 19:49
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I haven't seen it brought up but did anyone watch the Stevie Van Zandt show, Lilyhammer? I've never heard anyone even talk about it
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Oct 17, 2019 23:05
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Didn't see it- heard you can watch it as if it's Sil's coma fantasy. Also, Tony Sirico makes an appearance.
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Oct 17, 2019 23:08
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Didn't see it- heard you can watch it as if it's Sil's coma fantasy. Also, Tony Sirico makes an appearance. In fact, Steven Van Zandt’s brothers on the show are Tony Sirico and Bruce Springsteen.
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Oct 17, 2019 23:54
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Season 5, Episode 7 - In CamelotJ.T. Dolan posted:Am I supposed to be afraid? Continuing the tradition of family dinners now that Carmela no longer holds the family together, Tony has invited Janice, Bobby and the children to join him and AJ at his house for lunch. Janice and Tony discuss their history of arguments, including the infamous "roadies" comment he made about her the last time she was at the house. He doesn't apologize but he also isn't being a dick about it, simply noting she gave as good as she got (she nailed him on ruining his marriage and family life), and the entire mood is oddly amicable. He notes that she seems to be getting on well with Bobby's kids and she outlines a rather peculiar strategy that would have been completely alien to Livia: she stays out of their business and lets them do as they want, with the mindset that they'll gently caress up badly and that's the best way to learn there is. It also has the added benefit of her not having to do anything proactive! She brings them hamburgers as they watch Beethoven in the lounge, but her willingness to leave them alone hits a brick wall when she ask if they can have a dog. Ignoring Bobby Jr's childish promise that he will clean up after it, Bobby clearly appreciates his new wife playing the bad guy in this situation. It has unearthed a treasured childhood memory for Tony though, as he happily reflects on his old dog Tippy. He loved that dog, but it got worms so it had to move up to the country. Janice is flummoxed, the dog didn't go to the country, it got put down! Tony is bewildered, what does she mean? She can't believe it, her brother is so cynical about everything but he believed that? Yes Tippy got worms, and he'd drag his rear end on the carpet and their mother hated it. Tony can't believe it, he really thought Tippy had gone to a farm, and an amused Bobby says that same farm must have billions of dogs living on it, with dogshit up to the rafters! Still distracted/upset, Tony answers the phone and immediately gets more bad news. Janice and Bobby immediately pick up that it is something serious, and as he listens he quickly catches them up to speed: their cousin Josephine has called to let them know Aunt Concetta has died.   A surprisingly clumsy voiceover/sound-bridge from Tony explains how she died on the couch watching Meet the Press and was found by her husband of 70+ years, Uncle Zio. His voice carries over to the image of the family gathered at the cemetery with said Uncle as the coffin is lowered into the ground and he is left alone for the first time in decades. Father Intintola finishes the prayer over Concetta's coffin as the family watches, Tony together with both his sisters, Carmela there in spite of their issues since a dinner is one thing but this is a family funeral and that supersedes all else. As everybody breaks away from the grave, Tony joins Junior who is standing enjoying the sun shining on his face, dressed up in a nice suit and hat. Tony plans to go visit his father's grave while at the cemetery and asks Junior if he'd like to join him. He's surprised by Junior's instant dismissal, claiming that on such a beautiful day he isn't going to waste it being maudlin. Tony can't believe he'd say that about his own brother's grave, but Junior dismisses it as just going to talk to "chunk of headstone": he got 5 hours out of his home detention to attend this funeral and he intends to make the most of every second. Junior heads off, and Bobby steps up beside Tony to let him know that Junior is currently on intake inhibitors that have not only improved his short-term memory but also his general demeanor. Tony really doesn't know what to make of that, so he heads on alone to go visit his father's grave. When he arrives however, a strange woman is sitting viewing the two headstones, one for Johnny (who died in 1986) and of course one for Livia, whom Tony has not mentioned once when talking about paying his respects. Johnny Boy's headstone reads "In memory of a loving husband and father" while Livia's simply reads,"A mother's love..." and leaves it at that, making no claims about the woman herself or her ability to love. Tony tries to get the attention of the stranger, who doesn't hear him at first and is startled when he approaches. He assumed she knew his mother, but when she gets a closer look at him she leaps to her feet in surprise, guessing that he is Anthony. It appears she is a little deaf, assuming he is asking if he is annoying her when he asks if they know each other. She clarifies that she was a "friend" of his father's, and a wide grin splits his face as he guesses what that means and also dimly recalls from his teen years exactly who she is. She was "the lady from Bamberger's, in the fur department", his father's goomar from back in the day when that type of thing was such an open secret even Johnny Boy's 16-year-old son knew about it. She introduces herself as Fran Felstein and they take a seat, and she admits that she comes to visit every so often when she misses him. He's pleased to hear it, that his father still has somebody who thinks of him (Tony never visits Livia, but that's okay, she lives rent-free in his subconscious). Belatedly Fran mentions being sorry to hear about Livia's passing and Tony grunts that at least she didn't suffer, a rote response, before cracking a joke about how everybody else suffered instead. Fran doesn't quite hear and apologizes, her hearing has been going the last few years, admitting she is too vain to wear a hearing aid. She tells him how proud Johnny Boy was of him and it clearly touches him, but his guard raises when she warmly adds that Johnny always told her to go and see Tony if she ever needed anything. His smile is more forced now as he asks what she wants, and startled again she quickly explains she doesn't want anything. She really was simply just telling him something his father told her, and he relaxes again, pleased to have finally met somebody who is just telling him nice and pleasing things without any ulterior motive in mind.   Joining Junior for the "after-party" at Vesuvio's (Carmela sits at a different table entirely, with Quintina and Bobby), Tony talks with him about Fran. Junior's good mood just continues to get better as he fondly recalls "that was class", casually objectifying her before launching into a story about how he had a crush on her and would have even considered marriage, but he never screwed up the courage to ask her, worried about bringing "this life we live" on her, and she fell for Johnny Boy instead. He said nothing because it was his brother, and suffered in silence for years. Tony heads off and Junior spots the waiter Mario, and enthusiastically asked if he brought his guitar, as this is the man who played for him when he sang so sweetly at Jackie Jr's wake. Mario, who knows this is a far more sombre occasion than the last, shakes his head no, but Junior is being carried away to his happy memory of being the center of attention that day. He sings a few lines, getting just a little too loud, Carmela casting a look of minor disgust his way, unseen. Christopher attends an ANN meeting where the man of the hour is J.T. Dolan, a TV writer and addict who gives an entertaining account of the complete collapse of his career thanks to drugs and alcohol, particularly heroin. After 18 months without work he managed to get into a rehab program in Pennsylvania, where he met Christopher and they bonded over their shared love of television/films and of course their mutual drug problems. Tony has a therapy session with Melfi where he discusses Fran Felstein. Tony speaks with pride of the fact that Fran and Johnny Boy were a "thing" right up until Johnny Boy died, claiming he got from her what he couldn't get at home. Melfi clearly doesn't endorse this mindset but is trying to find a way to state that diplomatically, and he elaborates: support, love, a smile when he walked in the door. Fran gave Johnny Boy those things, Livia did not. This puts Melfi on firmer ground as she asks HIM if he HE thinks that justifies Johnny Boy's infidelities. Tony angrily defends his father, it was Livia who drove him into Fran's arms, in fact to ALL of the women he slept around with. Melfi gives him a meaningful look which he doesn't want to acknowledge (he's talking about himself, of course, trying to justify HIS infidelities) so he continues with lambasting his mother, claiming he has no recollection of her ever visiting Johnny Boy's grave (we know from season 1 she absolutely did) while Fran showed true devotion by regularly visiting. Melfi points out that visiting the grave of her husband may have been too painful for Livia, and Tony as always mocks not the idea of her having feelings but the idea that her feelings should have been taken seriously. Seeing this isn't progressing anywhere, Melfi asks what it was like to sit there with Fran, and when he says it was weird at first she asks him if he was attracted to her. Tony, who had already told Junior Fran had nice legs for an older woman, laughs at the notion, reminding Melfi Fran is old enough to be his mother, and is simultaneously amused and disgusted at her wry look, proclaiming not for the first time that he did NOT want to gently caress his mother!  J.T. and Christopher grab coffee and a meal at a diner after their meeting, to discuss J.T's return to live in New Jersey after 15 years in Hollywood. It doesn't have to mean the end of J.T's career, his new agent is trying to get him a meeting with Dick Wolf's "guy" to see if he can get a job as a staff writer for Law & Order, about the best gig a TV writer based in New York/New Jersey could desire. As they chat though, J.T keeps looking at his watch, clearly distracted even when asking Christopher how he is doing. When Christopher admits that he fell off the wagon, J.T is concerned even with Christopher's white-washed account of events (his fiance was in a car crash, he drank some wine, didn't like it and went to an AA meeting, as opposed to he beat the poo poo out of Adriana, drank a bottle of vodka and pulled a gun on a mob boss) but is still checking his watch. He reminds Christopher that he can call him any time but then excuses himself to meet a friend, hugging him before leaving. Christopher watches him go, suspicious. With the recent funeral having whet his appetite for being out of the house, Junior scours the obtituaries looking for the death of anybody he has even a tangential connection with. Finding one, he quickly calls Melvoin and explains he wants to get permission to leave the house for Vincent Patronella's funeral, the godfather of his niece he met ONCE at a BBQ at the Bicentennial. Yes, over quarter of a century earlier, and Junior only thinks they might have met that day. Melvoin says he'll try though, having taken the call despite having a young black client in for a meeting. One would suspect that Melvoin getting Junior Soprano a mistrial has greatly upped his appeal to gangsters both organized and not, so it is no surprise he'd always answer any call that came through from him. Tony visits Fran at her home, bringing her flowers which touches her great as it is something Johnny Boy used to do too, though he'd bring lingerie too! Tony looks around her home, smiling to see a photo of her in her prime, clearly seeing what his father saw in her at that time. But it is another photo that really gets his attention: a young man with glasses happily hugging a healthy looking dog. He asks about the photo and she proudly talks about her son Bruce who married an Israeli girl and moved to Tel Aviv, but he quickly corrects her that it is the dog he is talking about. That's the family dog Freckles, a gift from Johnny Boy, and Tony's heart is broken.... that's Tippy! Tony stares in disbelief at the photo, a stunned Fran saying she had no idea Johnny Boy had taken "Freckles" from Tony. But Tony is already adjusting, finding a way to make this horrible reality into an acceptable fantasy. His mother made his father give the dog away, it is HER fault. All Fran can offer is that Bruce loved the dog and they had 10 wonderful years together before he moved to Tel Aviv and Fran had Freckles put down. As he attempts to calm himself, she points out the pictures on the coffee table that she'd promised to show him, along with a pair of his father's slippers. Containing himself, he settles down on the couch and looks through the photos, impressed at how classy his father and Fran looked together, even more impressed with a young Hesh looking like George Gershwin with his (black, of course) girlfriend of the time. Fran however does not have favorable memories of Hesh, who was a whoremaster and cheap (she makes it sound like the latter is worse) AND screwed her out of her retirement money. That perks up Tony's interest, and in spite of her protests it only takes a little prompting to get her to unload. Johnny Boy owned a midget auto racetrack along with Hesh and "Phil something" from New York with funny hair. Tony knows the track, Chickamauga Raceway in New Egypt, and remembers that Johnny Boy cut Phil Leotardo in on the racetrack to pay off a poker debt. Fran explains that because Johnny Boy couldn't put her in the will for obvious reasons, he told her that she would inherit his share of the racetrack. When Johnny Boy died, she went and saw Hesh... and he gave her $500. Tony is aghast and Fran, getting a little teary, quickly stands up and exits to the kitchen, apologizing for bringing it up. Tony assures her it is fine, and when she tells him her son sends her money from time to time he explains this isn't the point: it was his father's wish, and that wish wasn't honored. Troubled, he suggests they take a ride after they eat, he has something in mind.   In the car, he can't help but bring up Junior, and cheekily lets her know that his Uncle had a little thing for her. That's no surprise to her though, and her account of their interactions is a hell of a lot different from Junior's. He would skulk outside her building, make weird phone-calls, essentially he was a stalker. She always suspected that he was the one who told Livia about her and Johnny, all of which astonishes Tony. He gets uncomfortable though when Fran talks more about Livia, noting that while she wasn't sexy she was "statuesque". Fran pulls a flask from her pocket and takes a swig, offering some to Tony who is surprised by her day-drinking. With the typical charm of an old alcoholic, she muses that it's simply "one for the road" and as they're on the road, why not take a drink? Tony, who isn't in the habit of controlling himself, figures why the hell not and takes a swig himself. They arrive at Chickamauga Raceway, where the midget cars are zipping about, as he wanted to take a closer look. He doesn't think the place is probably making money, but he knows that Hesh still wouldn't be involved in it if there wasn't cash being generated somewhere in the mix. To her credit (or perhaps more accurately, her intelligence), Fran doesn't light up or push for more, instead she keeps the conversation on Tony. She wants to know about his women, starting with his wife. Tony is uncomfortable on this subject, offering bland generalities about Carmela being a "good woman, a good mother" before shrugging that the marriage just unfortunately hit the rocks, acting like it is just something that happened as opposed to directly because of his actions. He's on safer ground when she playfully asks about his girlfriends and he tells her enthusiastically about Valentina, being sure to assure her that while she is Latin, it's Spanish Latin, as if that somehow makes a difference. Christopher and J.T have hit the gym at Chris' suggestion, where Chris is spotting him on the bench press. Christopher called him out on false pretenses though, he wants to confront him about his suspicions that he is using again. The way he raced out of the IHOP the other night has made Chris convinced he is back on something, but J.T quickly assures him that his rush was because he and a date were going to the racetrack at Meadowlands and he didn't want to miss the last race. Promising him that he remains clean and sober, he gives Christopher a hug to show his gratitude that his friend cares enough to look out for him like this. But now that is out of the way, a different side of Christopher naturally emerges without the slightest hint of malice of forethought. Why didn't he go to Christopher if he wanted a little gambling action? J.T is amused, asking if he'll take a "dime" on an upcoming game. Christopher is impressed at the amount he's willing to gamble, but less impressed that the money comes from a residual on an episode of That's Life he wrote. Christopher complains that "fake guinea-fest" was totally unrealistic, a little jab from the writers since this was one of the shows that was created in the wake of The Sopranos' popularity as an "answer" to the issue of Italian-American representation in the media. Tony and Fran walk arm-in-arm at the raceway, where Tony is impressed by her linen handkerchief and states she has a lot of class. "Just like your girlfriend" agrees Fran, which would almost feel like a backhanded insult about Tony's lack of class if it wasn't clear she sees zero issue in his infidelities (which says a lot about her own class). Their mutual good mood drops though when they spot the raceway billboard (a giant Indian statue in front of it is equally "classy") and spot that the final race is coming up this weekend, because the place has been sold.  Tony visits Hesh that evening to get his side of the story, and despite Hesh's protest his side appears to line up pretty cleanly with Fran's. Yes Johnny Boy asked Hesh to make sure she was taken care of, but Hesh assumed "some money" was the extent of that obligation, and defends himself by saying it was more than anybody else did for her. But Tony has a few other questions, like how come if Hesh didn't give Johnny Boy's end to Fran, Tony has never seen a dime of any of the racetrack's money all these years? Hesh again has a self-serving argument, he was running the place himself for all these years what with Johnny dead and Phil in jail, he felt he deserved it. When Tony complains that they're friends, Hesh complains right back that he's only a friend to Tony when Tony needs something, complaining about the time Tony hauled him out of bed in the middle of the night to play therapist for him. In any case, Hesh assures Tony that he'll be getting his end of the sale, though he makes no claim that he would have been doing this if Tony HADN'T found out abut it, a 25% share though he feels Phil should assume part of that burden as well. Slightly mollified, Tony reminds Hesh that whatever his personal feelings, Johnny Boy loved Fran, and when Hesh complains she always rubbed him the wrong way, Tony suggests maybe it was because like Junior he also had a thing for her. On this ground at least Hesh is 100% confident, smirking at the idea and reminding Tony that she's far too "pale" for his tastes: Hesh has always had a thing for black women (and exploiting black male artists), Fran really was just somebody he knew. Melvoin works his magic on a phone-call to the prosecutor, arguing Junior's case for an exemption to his house arrest to attend yet another funeral. Junior sits in the office with expectantly watching as Melvoin lays out the details: the deceased was the sister of Junior's cousin via marriage. Yes it's not technically a blood relative but for God's sake the man wants to pay his respects! Junior nods along, impressed by Melvoin's fire, even moreso by his threat to call Judge Runions and get him involved which will make the prosecutor look like a heartless rear end in a top hat. This has the desired effect, and Melvoin promises it will be no more than 5 hours, with Junior attending the service and then paying his respects to the family afterwards. After hanging up, Melvoin can only bask in Junior's delighted approval, claiming that his lawyer is worth every cent. Junior prepares for the funeral, which Bobby is attending with him. As Bobby talks about the service - there will be Scottish bagpipes - Junior only has eyes for himself in the mirror, making sure he is squared away nicely in a well-tailored suit and hat. He has to look good, this is his opportunity to get out and about! Christopher sits at the bar at the Bada-Bing, where a happy J.T meets with him to collect his winnings from his successful bet. He has the decency to buy Christopher another drink at least, a second ginger ale while he himself has a diet coke, and tells him he's thinking of going to the Indian Casino to try his hand at poker. Christopher offers to hook him up in a real game, one with VIP guests and high stakes. J.T does seem interested, and admits that he never used to get the appeal in games of chance but now he gets a strange thrill out of it he can't explain. But in his own good mood he can't help but notice Christopher looks downbeat, is it because J.T won the bet? No, Christopher admits that he fell off the wagon, getting high on weed with his Superintendent earlier today when he came around to fix the caulk around the toilet. J.T is mad, not that he used but that he is only admitting it after-the-fact instead of looking for help beforehand. Christopher just wanted to see if he could get high like a normal person, but J.T - who is now chasing the high of gambling - reminds him that neither of them are normal people and they both have to accept that if they want to stay the course. He points out the absurdity of their location, two addicts meeting at a bar, but while he is upset by these things he doesn't judge. Instead he gives Christopher another hug to let him know he still supports him, that he is still his friend. Less friendly is the chilly meeting being held by Johnny Sack to discuss the breakdown of the sale of the raceway by Hesh and Phil. Tony has come with Silvio as his second to allow Johnny to make the ruling, a way to avoid the appearance of bias towards himself while also buttering up to Johnny by recognizing his current authority even as the war for Lupertazzi Boss heats up. For Johnny it's a fairly straightforward decision, one at odds with his own spluttering anger over Carmine's tendency to cost him money: the track is selling for 625k, Tony's share of that is 150k with 25% coming from Phil and the other 75% from Hesh. Tony is completely fine with that amount (he had no idea ANY money was due to him until a few days ago) but Phil is upset, he thought the raceway would sell for more and now 40k of his own cash has to go to Tony? Johnny coldly makes it clear to Phil that his decision is final and Phil very quickly gets that message and capitulates... to Johnny. To Tony he casts a sardonic look and notes the "kid" has got some balls, unknowingly hitting the button that is guaranteed to enrage Tony: calling him a kid. Tony snarls at him that it isn't the 70s anymore as Johnny, Silvio and Hesh all quickly speak up trying to relax him. Phil, looking icily amused, explains he was just using an expression and Tony angrily (but rather hilariously) tells him he has an expression for him: he's got five days to give him the money! Tony and Silvio leave, though Hesh remains behind. Philly, clearly feeling secure despite Hesh's continued presence, complains that Tony was out of line, and Johnny reminds him that Tony is a Boss. Johnny, clearly sharing the same mindset of the late Carmine, rejects that: a "Boss" from Jersey? Come on! Johnny can't help but smile at that himself, and it's once again made clear that New York thinks of the DiMeo/Soprano Family as a glorified crew.   Tony visits with Fran again, where she is shocked and delighted to learn that Tony wasn't sidelined by Hesh and Phil but actually got a result, and she'll have money coming her way soon enough. Eager to reciprocate in some way, she decides to show him something, an idea she got when he complimented her linen handkerchief. She brings out a box which he opens, and finds another handkerchief with initials embroidered into it: JFK. Yes it belonged to President Kennedy, and an excited Tony tells her about the captain's hat he bought at auction (as seen worn by one of his girlfriends in the pilot). She tells him that is her lipstick on the cloth, and with a mixture of pride and embarrassment admits that she and JFK "had a little thing". Tony, who only moments earlier was checking his watch waiting for an excuse to escape, is not a captive audience: she slept with the President!? Sure many of the "friends" didn't like JFK, but Tony was in grammar school when the assassination happened, JFK has been for him - like a great many Americans - a source of utter fascination for decades. He doesn't need to push her hard for details, as she excitedly recounts how she and a girlfriend were at the Copa and were invited to a party at the Pierre Hotel by Kennedy's friend Lem Billings. Being young and impressed by his limo they go to the Presidential Suite and find models and celebrities packing the place (Sinatra and Jackie Gleason included) but most importantly, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He approached her, introduced her around, and then at the end of the night delivered one hell of a line when he claimed her sable meant he had to keep her around for National Security reasons to make sure she wasn't working with the Russians. Tony is thrilled, both by the audacity of the line but also the fact of who said it. Eager for more he asks if they were an item, and she admits it was only a one-time thing but there had been attempts on both their parts to make it go further. He'd invited her to spend the weekend in D.C but had to call it off due to a steelworker's strike. As they talk, the potential that she was simply a one-night stand and nothing special looms more and more ominously and Tony quickly makes an excuse, noting he was probably busy after the Bay of Pigs. Fran herself offers some level of self-awareness, admitting she was fully aware she wasn't the only other woman in his life: Judy Campbell and Marilyn Monroe being the most obvious. But she claims that she and JFK had a crazy passion together, and then uncomfortably brings Livia into the picture by noting this was the issue she had: she didn't realized that when you're with a powerful man you have to make him feel powerful, or he'll resent you. At first Tony is more than willing to agree that Livia was a bad partner to his father, but when Fran continues on mocking how Livia would dress for things like New Year's Eve parties, it starts becoming uncomfortable. He tells her he's going to have to skip the coffee as he has a meeting in the City, and she looks crestfallen. Standing up, he peels off some money as an advance against her share of the raceway, encouraging her to use it to get up to date with her rent and have her phone turned on. She thanks him sincerely, telling him his father would be proud to have raised such a gentleman. Christopher has been as good as his word, and gotten J.T into the poker game, which is now being run by Carlo since Feech went back inside. Unfortunately for J.T, he's having a bad run against Vito. Tony has come along to speak with Carlo, letting him know he has "big people" coming in next week, and Christopher is also present, though as a player as opposed to a supervisor. One of the other players tries to make conversation with J.T about his writing, but the usually charming writer is in no mood to go into details about writing for Dylan McDermott and "Nicholson's girlfriend" (of course they refer to her by her male partner). Christopher, seeing he's down to almost nothing and is getting a short-fuse, asks amicably if he'd like to finish up for the night. J.T, like far too many gamblers, sees being almost out of chips as the reason to STAY, and Christopher says that he himself is shot and is going to head out. J.T barely notices, completely locked into the game, another David Scatino in the making. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 31, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 09:11
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Tony has a "date" with Valentina, which ends with him banging her on the bed as she gasps out eagerly for him to "show Valentina you love her", equating his orgasm with a sign of love he long ago made clear she wasn't going to get from him. As he bangs away at his "class" girlfriend though, he becomes distracted by a framed poster for a William Wegman exhibit, which features two dogs, immediately bringing back to mind his long-lost Tippy. Needless to say, this doesn't make him feel particularly amorous.  Junior is going stir crazy in the "prison" of his home. When Bobby arrives with the groceries he eagerly approaches him to at least have somebody to interact with, and isn't happy when Bobby almost immediately makes to leave. Bobby explains that he needs to go buy flowers, Sal the Drycleaner's 7-year-old boy drowned in a Jacuzzi, a tragic accident. He leaves, and Junior is left reflecting on this horrifying news... and immediately calls Harold Melvoin (eating pizza and drinking coke at his desk) to demand he be allowed to attend that funeral as well! Melvoin, who likes to do everything he can to keep his golden goose happy, immediately tries to shut down the idea by noting that there needs to be some level of familial relationship. There is, Junior promises him, his father came over to America with the dead kid's great, great grandfather! The whole village of Avellino settled in the area, he's basically related to everybody if you go back far enough! When Melvoin still seems uncertain, Junior just comes right out and admits it: he HAS to get out of the house, he can't take it any more. Christopher returns to the poker game still in process, surprised to see J.T is still at the table. It's not the morning after Christopher left, it's the morning after the morning after, J.T has been playing straight for close to 48 hours now and is being mauled by the other players at the table. He goes all in with the bare remnants of his chips with a pair of tens, and loses to Vito's flush, wiping him out. As J.T buries his head in his arms, Christopher quietly takes Carlo aside to ask how badly he is doing, and is shocked to learn J.T now owes 57k to the house. He pulls J.T aside and asks him what the hell he is doing, and with the typical brash confidence of the problem gambler the exhausted J.T assures him that once he gets the on-staff writing position with Dick Wolf he'll be raking in the money and can easily pay off a debt like that in a month. But Christopher asks a pertinent question: what about this month? J.T, lighting a cigarette and acting for all the world like it's no big deal, it's cool, it's not a problem, "casually" asks if Christopher can spot him the cash so he can take care of this short term issue... oh yeah and also some child support payments he owes. Jesus Christ  Christopher, without missing a beat, slips smoothly into loan-shark mode without a second's hesitation. He'll cover the 57k and throw in 3k for incidentals, making a total of a 60k loan.... with 2 points added every week till Christopher is paid back in full. J.T is astonished, he's going to charge him vig? Yes he is, on top of the original which is compounded if he's late, which means one week from today 1200 is going to be added to what he owes and exponentially up from there. Christopher sees the look of disbelief on J.T's face, warns him with surprising frankness that this is J.T's problem and not his, and he will not "enable" him. Tony drives down the street smoking a cigar and listening to The Clash when he spots Phil Leotardo heading away from an ice-cream shop. He pulls up and gets out of his car, cheerfully calls out to the Lupertazzi Captain... who ignores the Boss of a Family to hop into his car without a sideways look. Tony calls out louder, close enough now that Phil can't pretend he hasn't seen him, so he simply shouts out that he has to go meet Johnny and peels out. Tony, livid, races back to his car and pulls out after him, what was going to be an aggressively "friendly" conversation about the money he is owed now a furious lesson to be taught about respecting rank. Rock the Casbah plays as Tony weaves in and out of traffic, Phil tossing the ice-cream out the window to concentrate on trying to lose Tony and deal with the consequences later. But Tony has gotten too close, driving up alongside him and screaming at him, asking where he thinks he can go to get away from him. Too late Phil realizes he has been boxed in, unable to brake in time to avoid driving straight into the back of a parked truck. Tony comes to a stop and rushes out of the car as shocked onlookers start to gather, slipping up to the driver side window first and putting on an earnest voice as he asks,"Jesus Christ. Mister, you okay in there?" Phil is NOT okay, his airbag (new or "new"?) deployed but his neck is badly wrenched and he's in considerable pain. Close enough that his bulk is blocking the onlooker's view, Tony grips Phil tightly by the hair and his collar and shakes him back and forth, hissing at him, how dare he run from him? Getting in nice and close, he demands to know where his money is, and Phil's brief attempt to maintain a stoic face collapses from the pain and he begs off, promising Tony he'll get it. He certainly enjoyed lording it up over Lorraine when he had her in a similar position, and while he isn't instantly reduced to offering to suck cock, there is a certain gratification in seeing the hardass Captain put in his place. Tony shakes him again, asking if he thinks he's an rear end in a top hat, Phil struggling to maintain composure as he begs Tony please, promising he'll get him his money. Tony takes immense satisfaction in telling him he has 24 hours, and this time there is no comment about the balls on this "kid", or sneering that he's the head of a glorified crew. Phil is hurt and scared, and that gives Tony immense satisfaction.   So what's the difference between Tony laying his hands on this Made guy and the time he did it to Ralphie? Especially as this particular Made guy is from a different Family? It's very different, even if Tony might have gone a little too far in running him off the road before physically threatening him. A sitdown was down, Phil's Boss laid down a ruling, it was accepted by all present. That Phil has not yet fulfilled that ruling is bad enough, but to ignore the Boss of another family, to drive away from him with only the barest acknowledgement? That is a slight that absolutely cannot go unanswered, and if Tony had let that happen he'd have looked incredibly weak, especially during this transition period where the final head of the Lupertazzi Family hasn't been firmly established. This isn't the last of the encounters to come between Tony and Phil, but Tony was on fairly solid ground in this situation.... at least as far as the mad, often contradictory "rules" of the mob go. At the funeral for the dead 7-year-old, the mother sobs uncontrollably and is taken upstairs to be given tranquilizers. The house is full of somber, miserable people devastated by the tragedy... and a beaming Junior Soprano chowing down on a plate of food having a wonderful time out and about outside of his home! Bobby quietly approaches him and suggests diplomatically that they leave, but Junior is having none of it, he means to make use of every second of the five hours he has been given. As one mourner passes by, Junior happily points out that the chicken is nice and spicy! J.T sits at his laptop, thinking very carefully about the screen in front of him, knowing everything relies on what he does with it next... and of course it's revealed he's actually playing an old video-game rather than doing any writing. There is a hammering at the door and he takes a peek through the peephole, cringing when Christopher calls out that he can see his shadow. He opens the door, pretending he was trying to ghost a clingy ex-girlfriend, but Christopher isn't interested, he just wants to know where the money is. J.T, again doing the whole "it's totally not a thing" thing, admits he went to Atlantic City and crapped out. But he assures Christopher it's fine, Rene Balcer is Dick Wolf's Right-Hand Guy and told J.T's agent he liked his writing, which means he is a shoe-in to be on staff for Law and Order. Christopher is unimpressed, explaining that he "got out of that business" (he was never in it) because people like Jon Favreau hosed him over by trying to steal his ideas. J.T promises him he'll have him the money next week, but that wasn't the deal, and Christopher makes the only concession he is willing or able to make: 24 hours. He'll be back tomorrow and he wants the money. Tony goes to dinner with Fran, where she shows off the Bottega Veneta shoes she bought for "only" $600. Tony is surprised, the money he gave her was to get her phone back on and her rent paid, and she admits she knows she should have, but she just wanted to enjoy the chance to treat herself after so long. Tony, who has spent most of his adult life indulging himself, can accept that. Artie brings over an ice-bucket, and after he is gone Tony starts to tell her about his Uncle Zio, who is starting to go downhill after the loss of Aunt Concetta, whose funeral was the impetus for Tony and Fran to meet. As he talks with fascination about the fact they were together for 70 years, Fran is completely lost. This is not a place where her conversation shines, she was always the other woman, talking about family and relationships and thoughts and feelings were the province of the wife, she was there for the good time: sex, money, drinking, parties, luxury etc. So she sits awkwardly unsure what to offer back, only lighting up when the wine arrives. A day has passed and Tony returns to J.T's, this time with Little Paulie in tow. He makes no conversation, no easing in, he just demands to know where his money is. J.T, trying to pretend everything is cool and acting like Christopher is being the weird one, tries to introduce himself to an indifferent Little Paulie, who sees only a deadbeat who owes money. Irritated at the "act", J.T asks if they're trying to scare him, what is this, Pulp Fiction? "I don't know, I didn't see it" grunts Little Paulie, and just keeps on with the dead-eyed stare. J.T complains to Christopher that he already told him he didn't have the money, and when Christopher simply replies to get it, he makes the biggest mistake of his life by acting amused and reminding his friend that he's suffered so much in life already there isn't much they can do to hurt him. "We'll think of something" responds Christopher, and without a moment's hesitation punches his good friend right in the face. J.T goes down and Little Paulie immediately moves in, kicking him as Christopher pulls down a poster of Doctor Strangelove and smashes it over his head. He joins Little Paulie in giving J.T a kicking, including one directly to his face. All without malice or expression, just two guys going about their business.   Uncle Zio has died. Laid out in his offin with a framed photo of he and his wife, the family are gathered as Father Intintola gives a warm and loving testament to the strength of the bond between the two, which caused Zio to follow his beloved Concetta into death so soon after her own. Again the family are gathered as a single unit in spite of any issues between them, Carmela sits with Meadow and AJ, Janice and Barbara with Quintina behind them, Tony, Bobby and Tony B. standing in the rear. Uncle Junior sits at a chair against the wall, directly across from Carmela, there would have been no need to finesse his presence, this was about as clear a case of a family funeral as possible. But as Father Phil talks passionately about the enormity of Zio's grief, Junior seems to be paying far more attention that at any of the many funerals he has already attended this episode. Father Phil speaks of the deep bond between Zio and Concetta, the joy of their children and grandchildren, the constant of each other through good times and bad. With shocking suddenness Junior bursts into tears, loud, sobbing tears that astonish everybody present. As they try to say the Lord's prayer, he actually wails in his grief, startling Carmela. Tony, Bobby and Janice hurriedly rush to his side as he cries out that he can't take it anymore, what is the point? They help him out of the room, leaving behind Tony B (Buscemi directed the episode) who is confused and surprised by the outburst. I believe this may be the only scene Tony B and Junior share together in the entire season? In desperation, J.T has rushed to a pawn shop to try and sell off his Emmy for writing to raise enough cash to keep the wolves from the door. But the pawnbroker is unimpressed, offering him $15 for the award, saying he could MAYBE go up a little if it was an Oscar. J.T can't believe it, declaring the Emmy (which the Sopranos won multiples of) is huge, but the pawnbroker remains unimpressed... the movies, sure, but TV? Doesn't he have anything else? J.T grunts all he has is his laptop, and with indifference the pawnbroker says he'll check that out. J.T, face bruised and cut, reliving a familiar downward spiral he probably went through with heroin, trudges outside to sell the one item he supposedly is capable of making money with. Little Paulie meets with Christopher with the good news, when he went around to collect, J.T had the money. Christopher is pleased, until he asks if there was any issue and Little Paulie says the only problem was keeping him awake, because he's obviously nodding off from heroin use. Christopher is horrified, his friend J.T is using again!?! Oh no! Tony visits with Fran and they toast to her windfall, as Phil and Hesh came through with the money and he's now handing over 150k to her to fulfill his father's wishes to make sure she was taken care of. He takes a seat as she grills Filet Mignon, and she happily recounts the story of the time she and Johnny Boy stayed at a place in Point Pleasant around Labor Day. Pausing, she recalls it was only a couple of months before he died, then continues on, explaining about how they stopped at a liquor store with a blind clerk so she could get some cigarettes. But as she begins to tell the story of how Johnny Boy tricked the blind clerk, Tony pulls her up short... she was getting cigarettes? Two months before his father died of emphysema? She didn't stop smoking? Fran is confused, saying he didn't mind, but when Tony begins ranting about how they had to set up an oxygen tent inside the house for him and even Livia quit, she shifts her story to claiming she offered to give up smoking but he insisted she continue. By now Tony should have realized that she has a way of telling him only what he wants to hear, but he's still caught up in the desire to do "the right thing" for his father. Calming himself, Tony asks her to continue the story. But she's lost the flow, saying it was just a matter of Johnny Boy getting them free champagne. Her oven dings and she brings him water chestnuts wrapped in bacon for him to try, but as he eats she stands staring at the other bag he brought with him, desperate to know what it is. Amused, Tony pulls out the hat he told her about earlier, JFK's captain hat. Thrilled she asks if she can try it on and rushes to the mirror to look at herself, remembering happier times. Turning towards him with a sly smile, she begins to sing, aping Marilyn Monroe's infamous "Happy Birthday" song to the President. At first Tony smiles, amused by it, but she just keeps going and he becomes more and more uncomfortable. The absurdity of his situation is obvious, but also the sheer pathetic sadness of it. This old woman, a drunk who spent her life as a good time girl and then got left alone living with nothing but memories of when she was young and attractive and powerful men lavished attention on her.   Christopher meets with J.T at his apartment, stripped of almost all his possessions which he pawned simply to make the first vig payment. He's a mess, admitting that he met with Dick Wolf's guy and learned they'd hired some kid from Yale over him. Now he has nothing, owes tens of thousands to Chris, his ex-wife is after him for child support AND he's gone back to using heroin. Christopher listens with a firm resolve to be here for his friend. He pulls no punches, telling J.T he hosed up after doing so well, and a furious J.T demands to know where HE gets the right to say that. Christopher, who is long practiced at compartmentalization, simply reminds him that they're both in the program and if he was going to use he should have called his sponsor, and if he couldn't reach him, then why not call Christopher himself? J.T is agape at that, shocked that Christopher apparently thinks he can be simultaneously his supportive friend in drug rehabilitation but also the mobster loanshark who beats the poo poo out of him when he can't pay him back what he owes. Tony meets with Melfi to discuss his realization of the sad state of Fran, venting about her continued obsession with his father when she was only his mistress. He doesn't live with Valentina, but Fran kept Johnny Boy's slippers? He's disgusted, and Melfi of course knows there is more to it than the obvious and encourages him to speak on that. Slowly he lets it come out, his recalled memory after leaving Fran's of a time when he was 16, the same age AJ is now. His mother was pregnant despite being close to menopause, and he came home from school to find a note from Aunt Quintina that Livia had started bleeding and gone to hospital, and he was to find his father and meet them there ASAP. He called every number he had but nobody knew where Johnny Boy was, and so it wasn't till late at night when he was watching television that Johnny Boy finally got in touch. He was with Fran of course, enjoying a night out with his mistress, but the moment he heard about Livia's state he was devastated... and then explained he was tied up but he'd get to the hospital when he could. What was he tied up with? Fran had made him lamb-chops and he was going to have his dinner. It wasn't until the next morning that he finally returned home and picked up Tony (Janice had presumably run off by this point, and Barbara was presumably in the care of another member of the family) and they went to the hospital together. Livia had lost the baby by that point, and was enraged at Johnny showing up so late, accusing him of being with "that whore". Johnny Boy of course promised none of that was true, insisting he'd picked up Tony from school and taken him to the Yankees game, then the timing belt on the car got thrown and they had to spent the night at cousin Jimmy's before returning home this morning to discover the shocking note. Disbelieving, emotionally and physically distraught, Livia had demanded the truth from Tony and, 16-year-old boy that he was, he had stood up for his father and told her the story was true. Did she believe him? Or did that moment mark one of the points where she buried and nurtured and grew a festering hatred for her own son? Tony himself has clearly not thought of this for a long time, he buried the memory successfully in his continued insistence on lionizing his father and demonizing his mother. But now? Meeting with Fran, her growing comfort with denigrating his mother, his (perhaps subconscious) realization that Johnny Boy may have considered Fran like he considers Valentina, it's helped unearth the memory. His mother had a miscarriage, and his piece of poo poo father sat at his mistress' home and ate lamb-chops, hosed her and spent the night there before bothering to go see his wife in the hospital.   But the weight of a lifetime of biases are heavy. Melfi admits that Livia had many, many issues but maybe it is finally time for Tony to admit that his father played a part in causing those, that he - a man Tony strives to emulate - had more than his fair share of blame. But Tony can't do it, when she asks him to finally forgive Livia and put her away, to stop endlessly blaming her for everything and giving her monstrous presence in his mind power... he simply can't. Faced with the stark truth of the horrible person his father was, he retreats to the safe comfort of the tried and true: Livia Soprano was the bad one. She made his father give his dog away! Melfi isn't having that, sarcastically reminding him he claimed his father was a big tough guy, could little Livia really force him to do anything he didn't want to? Tony decides that Livia would have had Tippy killed, but Johnny Boy gave it a happy life for 10 years with his girlfriend's kid! Why, in fact his father giving away his dog to his mistress was actually a good thing! Christopher drives J.T in his car to a parking lot to meet with his sponsor. He's gotten the book value on the car and happily tells J.T that he'll take 17k off what he owes in exchange for the car, and the rest they'll sort out when he gets back from rehab, where he's now sending him. A miserable J.T signs over ownership of the car, and again is left in disbelief when Christopher happily offers him more nuggets of wisdom from the Program, reminding him there is no chemical solution to a spiritual problem. For Christopher of course there is no issue, his role as loanshark and his role as friend are entirely separate, and he can easily kick J.T's head in one day and offer him moral support and encouragement the next. J.T staggers out of the car and joins his sponsor, a bewildered mess who has been pulled into the black hole of the mob thanks to his gambling. Unlike David Scatino, he doesn't have a sports store for them to suck dry, but that's not an issue. As Christopher told him earlier, I'm positive they'll find a way. Janice and Tony have brought Junior to the doctor's to discuss his emotional breakdown at Uncle Zio's funeral. The doctor figures it could have been a transient ischemic attack (mini-stroke) but it is hard to tell since they didn't bring him in right away, and they're not sure if he suffered memory loss at the time. Junior speaks up, subdued and still emotionally fragile, claiming that he took more of the medicine but it wasn't doing poo poo, he feels like the walking dead. The doctor promises it is probably just a matter of adjusting the medication to get exactly the right dose, but Junior sees no hope, he's just sad all the time. Tony, trying to be helpful and failing, says this is probably because he goes to funerals all the time, but Junior moans back that it is the only way to get out of the trap of his house thanks to his house arrest. "My life is only death" he groans,"I'm living in a grave." As he laments his lack of children and the pointlessness of having beaten prison if there is nothing to show for it, the doctor, Janice and Tony can only stare in uncomfortable silence. Janice offers a comforting arm but can give nothing else. What can they say? He is a lonely old man trapped in an empty house, and the fact that almost all of that is entirely his own doing isn't going to make him feel any better.   At the Bada Bing, Silvio is going through the cash from the register as he chats to Tony, Tony B and Artie at the bar, and the subject of Johnny Boy's goomar comes up since Hesh told Silvio about it. They all look at him expectantly to hear details, all of them grew up knowing and respecting his father after all. Tony has a moment to consider, his father's blame, the wreck Fran became, his own complicity in lying to his mother, the pathetic sordidness of the so-called great love affair. He considers... and he makes his decision. Oh you should have seen her in her prime! She was JFK's girlfriend for three years! She'd go to the White House on the weekends when Jackie Kennedy was out of town! Jackie even thought the marriage might be over at one point things got so passionate between them. And this was the woman his father was with! What reflected glory! What proof of his masculinity! The others drink it all in, sharing in the myth, building it all up in their minds. As topless women with fake breasts gyrate to music for money, Tony Soprano smokes his cigar, knocks back his drink and forces himself to move to the beat as if he's having a good time. There can be no excuses anymore, on some level he knows.... but quite clearly, he prefers the fantasy to the reality. Season 5: Two Tonys | Rat Pack | Where's Johnny? | All Happy Families... | Irregular Around the Margins | Sentimental Education | In Camelot | Marco Polo | Unidentified Black Males | Cold Cuts | The Test Dream | Long Term Parking | All Due Respect Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2019 09:11
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There was something both funny and sad about Chris thinking he's still in good sponsor mode for TJ and how he's not going to enable him to gamble while wanting twelve hundred bucks a week at the start which will only go up with the difference added to the principle. Honestly Tim Daly's just great all around.
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Oct 19, 2019 13:18
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I never really got the hatred for this episode. It's actually one of the most important in the entire series when it comes to Tony and his father. I'm glad Jerusalem picked up on all of that.
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Oct 19, 2019 13:39
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Whenever I watch the scene of JT awkwardly leaving I always figured he wanted to avoid paying the bill/tip.
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Oct 19, 2019 13:47
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Vichan posted:Whenever I watch the scene of JT awkwardly leaving I always figured he wanted to avoid paying the bill/tip. It's left incredibly ambiguous. You don't know if he was just really uncomfortable around Chris at that point, if he was looking to score, if he really did have a date, etc. I absolutely love the fact that so much in the show was left up to interpretation.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:13
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I never really got the hatred for this episode. It's actually one of the most important in the entire series when it comes to Tony and his father. I'm glad Jerusalem picked up on all of that. I never knew this episode was hated. As you say you get a lot of insight into Tony and Johnny Boy, to say nothing of the gold with Daly.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:52
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Dawgstar posted:I never knew this episode was hated. As you say you get a lot of insight into Tony and Johnny Boy, to say nothing of the gold with Daly. Yeah, I don't get it either. It went a long way towards character development, motivation and, as usual, had great acting. I really liked how they showed JT basically transferring his addiction from drugs to gambling and also demonstrating how, once again, real change or any type of reform is basically impossible when you are mobbed up. Chris' compartmentalizing his roles as AA supporter with loanshark is masterfully pulled off and calls back to Tony's relationship with Davey, right down to taking his car. I always took Junior's breakdown as a combination of attending so many funerals and the fact that he was using depressing environments as his only way of experiencing freedom and joy, so just constantly being surrounded by crying sad people so he could get 5 hours out of the house has to take a toll and is rightfully painted as pathetic. I just figured he was absorbing the sadness he was surrounding himself with. It's a stark contrast. "Yay, a funeral!" while everyone else is "gently caress...a funeral" Tony's recovered memories and eye opening revelations about his Dad that he refused to face was really great too and watching him make excuses for his shithead dad and actively resisting any therapeutic breakthroughs was great writing. Gandolfini does some really great body language acting and emoting in this episode.
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Oct 19, 2019 17:17
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What was the bigger shock to you on first watch, Paulie's vision in the bing or Junior shooting Tony? The latter for me, but both shook me completely
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Oct 19, 2019 17:34
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Tony getting shot felt like something out of a horror movie when I first saw that episode. The way Junior comes out of the shadows, mouth sunken in because his dentures removed, lost in a memory induced by dementia and armed with that snub nose, that poo poo was crazy. Doesn’t he call Tony ‘Salamanca’ when he shoots him too? Breaking Bad/Sopranos crossover when?
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Oct 19, 2019 19:14
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Cazzata Malanga, or "loving Malanga"- that apparently being "Little" Pussy Malanga, the guy Junior was going to have whacked at Vesuvio.
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Oct 19, 2019 19:41
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