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Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

can't you just cast your jump spell again right before you land? you don't even need another enchanted item or effect, just use the same spell over and over. With proper timing you can even jump again in the same cast that lets you land safely.

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Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

1 point of slowfall negates falling damage completely.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?
its all a bunch of alteration bullshit one way or another

Sibling of TB
Aug 4, 2007
Wasn't this title made spooky for last Halloween (2018)?

On topic, I remember being really annoyed in Oblivion and the Skyrim that they simplified and polished some of the systems that I used to break Morrowind, but then again I don't think I ever legitimately played Morrowind the "intended" way. Do you think fixing the obvious exploits was actually a good decision they made?

John F Bennett
Jan 30, 2013

I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

Sibling of TB posted:

Wasn't this title made spooky for last Halloween (2018)?

On topic, I remember being really annoyed in Oblivion and the Skyrim that they simplified and polished some of the systems that I used to break Morrowind, but then again I don't think I ever legitimately played Morrowind the "intended" way. Do you think fixing the obvious exploits was actually a good decision they made?

yes, and right in place for this Halloween now too!

Morrowind was more of a sandbox which was very fun to mess around in. I still think Morrowind is the best TES there is but at the same time it has aged terribly and the changes made starting with Oblivion were for the best.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:

John F Bennett posted:

changes made starting with Oblivion were for the best.

:thunk:

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747
The more actiony combat instead of aim-to-hit-but-also-roll-to-hit is a definitive improvement; the rest, meh.

ambient oatmeal
Jun 23, 2012

Pressing the attack button and occasionally holding down the attack button has always sucked and Bethesda needs to take a look at how to make the combat actually good if they're going to make every game all combat all the time.

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

John F Bennett posted:

yes, and right in place for this Halloween now too!

Morrowind was more of a sandbox which was very fun to mess around in. I still think Morrowind is the best TES there is but at the same time it has aged terribly and the changes made starting with Oblivion were for the best.

Oblivion made so many terrible decisions. Like take npc schedules for example. What do they add? The fun gameplay possibilities of having to hit the “wait” button every time you want to do some shopping but the shopkeeper is somewhere else. The immersive thief gameplay of sneaking into the throne room at dead of night and picking the master locks only to discover that all the treasures are worthless replicas. The immersive giant quest arrow that is now essential because the questgiver is never in the same place twice and nobody can think of a fun way for you to find them so welp you just magically know where they are at all times ...

Morrowind was right, just make npcs stand around in the same place all day and all night, it’s better even though it sounds worse

poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.


It’s part of their endless quest to make the games “immersive “ without thinking about what might be fun or interesting. You can pick everything up! The quests are dynamic based on who you know and who you’ve talked to! People live their daily lives and move according to schedule!

In theory, that’s all awesome and gives you a full world to live in. In practice, well, you know. Just loads of useless junk, missing NPCs requiring magic arrows, boring nothing quests.

If they were going for immersion they’d have to make dialogue and character options deeper than their simple quests. They’d give you the option to be a hunter, a trader, a scholar, etc. instead we get the Bard College in Skyrim that’s just three dungeons just like the rest of them.

me your dad
Jul 25, 2006

I'm level 14 and I went with a battlemage with a melee weapon in one hand and casting destruction in the other.

My armor situation is kind of a mess.

My heavy armor skill is 39 and my light armor is 29. I'm wearing a combination of light and heavy armor.

I like the protection from heavy armor but it seems to deplete my stamina pretty easily. I see a level 70 skill that negates the stamina consequence.

Should I expect to get my heavy armor skill to that level?

Should I just go ahead and wear all heavy armor?

My stamina is 130.

Smol
Jun 1, 2011

Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus.
Just pick one armor type and run with it. Either one works, in the late game they are both as effective at mitigating damage.

I’d recommend picking the one that looks better to your eye.

Smol fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 16, 2019

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Smol posted:

I’d recommend picking the one that looks better to your eye.

The answer is usually Ebony.

ambient oatmeal
Jun 23, 2012

Boiled netch leather

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013

ulmont posted:

The answer is usually Ebony.

Yeah, ebony had consistently best looking armour and weapons since Morrowind. Gold and Black is colour combo that's hard to beat.

7c Nickel
Apr 27, 2008
I feel like heavy armor is easier to get the mats together if you want to craft it yourself. Like for ebony you just head to the Orc Stronghold near Windhelm.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I'm thinking of doing a (vanilla with DLC) playthrough where I craft literally as much of my own gear as possible. What clothing items will I not be able to make? I forget, can you make general clothing, or is it just armour and stuff?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'm thinking of doing a (vanilla with DLC) playthrough where I craft literally as much of my own gear as possible. What clothing items will I not be able to make? I forget, can you make general clothing, or is it just armour and stuff?

You can make jewelry, but I don't think you can make clothes. Also, iirc, the only way to real level smithing it to cheese it with a million daggers as you'll never craft enough to level it up naturally.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.
They changed smithing really early on so that the gold value of what you make has a huge influence on how much exp it's worth, specifically because of the dagger grinding. The hot smithing grind became transmuting iron into silver or gold and making expensive jewelry.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'm thinking of doing a (vanilla with DLC) playthrough where I craft literally as much of my own gear as possible. What clothing items will I not be able to make? I forget, can you make general clothing, or is it just armour and stuff?

You can't make the actual clothing items (like miner clothes) or mage robes without using mods.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Ok, thanks. So I guess aside from clothing, I'm going to try and craft everything myself.

Including my houses :black101:

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747
just stay naked and wear only an axe

it's the nord way

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Cat Mattress posted:

just stay naked and wear only an axe

it's the nord way

This is also a valid option, yes.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Not all Nords run afoul of witches.

Babe Magnet
Jun 2, 2008

yes they do

ThaumPenguin
Oct 9, 2013

If you haven't run afoul of a witch you haven't lived

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013

Soricidus posted:

Oblivion made so many terrible decisions. Like take npc schedules for example. What do they add? The fun gameplay possibilities of having to hit the “wait” button every time you want to do some shopping but the shopkeeper is somewhere else. The immersive thief gameplay of sneaking into the throne room at dead of night and picking the master locks only to discover that all the treasures are worthless replicas. The immersive giant quest arrow that is now essential because the questgiver is never in the same place twice and nobody can think of a fun way for you to find them so welp you just magically know where they are at all times ...

Morrowind was right, just make npcs stand around in the same place all day and all night, it’s better even though it sounds worse

Really?

One of the biggest issue Morrowind has is how empty and lifeless the towns feel. Everybody just stands around scratching their rear end talking about stepping in guar poo poo all day waiting for you to talk to them. Like come on, at least they could've made NPCs magically disappear at night and close the shops, but no everything stays the same forever. Even daggerfall cities felt more lively.
This even made the thief gameplay worse, burglary was either stupidly easy or impossibly hard because nobody ever moved outside of a few exceptions. If you found an empty room then you can literally steal everything from there without any repercussions or any skill check since nobody is in that room to notice you and nobody will be. But what if there is someone in the room, and usually there is someone when there is something valuable in the room? Well then you either minmax so you can crouch down and be invisible to everyone or get 100% chameleon or find that one perfect spot from nobody can see you and hope they won't randomly just turn around to greet you while you steal the thing.

If you want static NPCs make them cardboard cutouts like in Daggerfall

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Soricidus posted:

Oblivion made so many terrible decisions. Like take npc schedules for example. What do they add? The fun gameplay possibilities of having to hit the “wait” button every time you want to do some shopping but the shopkeeper is somewhere else. The immersive thief gameplay of sneaking into the throne room at dead of night and picking the master locks only to discover that all the treasures are worthless replicas. The immersive giant quest arrow that is now essential because the questgiver is never in the same place twice and nobody can think of a fun way for you to find them so welp you just magically know where they are at all times ...

Morrowind was right, just make npcs stand around in the same place all day and all night, it’s better even though it sounds worse
So basically go back to Ultima III or, like, any Pokemon game, where all the NPCs just stand in place and say pre-scripted lines?

John F Bennett
Jan 30, 2013

I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

I 100% agree with that.

I really like to roleplay an ordinary thief/burglar in these games. Scoping out houses and waiting until night time to start work, breaking in with my lockpicks and sneaking around sleeping people and opening their cupboards is so much fun! Morrowind does nothing for me in that regard.

At least Skyrim added random valuable jewelry in peoples' homes which made me feel even more like a true thief. Oblivion with its leveled loot was less fun.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Speaking of thief gameplay, I'm thinking along with making as much of my own gear myself, my next character gimmick will be to be as loud as possible. Just the absolute antithesis of stealth.

And then I'll try and see how far I can get in the Thieves Guild.

John F Bennett
Jan 30, 2013

I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

I used to really RP these games being a thief. Including accepting the consequences if I get caught stealing or pickpocketing and just spend some time in jail if needed or run away to the woods and live there for a while hiding out, living off the land and hunting and so on until things died down.

But never murder because I was just a thief not a murderer.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

John F Bennett posted:

I used to really RP these games being a thief. Including accepting the consequences if I get caught stealing or pickpocketing and just spend some time in jail if needed or run away to the woods and live there for a while hiding out, living off the land and hunting and so on until things died down.

But never murder because I was just a thief not a murderer.

That playstyle was brought up in the Daggerfall manual, where the devs mentioned that you should roll with your decisions and not to save scum (not the wording they used, of course). I have to remind myself how rewarding it is, in general, to do this, from time to time.

I also never fast travel outside of in-world options (like horse carts) which really changes so much for the better.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."
Getting caught in Skyrim wasnt that bad because the Thieves Guild adds an option to bribe the guard to let you go for a paltry amount (assuming you got caught stealing and not murdering people in the streets).

And in Oblivion even if you go to jail there was a bug that makes everyone who ever followed you for any quest (those three fighters guild guys from the mine, the orc knight, etc) show up outside of the jail when you get out of prison like they're all throwing you a welcome back party, so that's at least pretty funny.

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

Morrowind is the best game to be a mage in, and the worst to be a thief in.

There are npc scheduling mods for morrowind and they all make the game much more tedious. It's actually really nice not having to open the wait menu because the shops are only open specific times.

Thief skills are also pretty useless as invisibility, chameleon, and open spells exist. Am I remembering correctly that skyrim doesnt have open spells?

ThomasPaine
Feb 4, 2009

We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.
I dunno I quite liked that some shopkeeper could get killed by a rogue mudcrab on their way home from work, maybe that's just me

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:

Thief skills are also pretty useless as invisibility, chameleon, and open spells exist. Am I remembering correctly that skyrim doesnt have open spells?
Only via mods. I think there's also maybe a special power with the Tower stone, but that also might be a mod.

Lockpicking is pretty trivial anyways.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Morrowind is not well suited to the sneaky, unless you're being a mage-theif, and being a mage-thing is almost the point of Morrowind.

For whatever vermissilitude shops being open / people being awake all night lacks, I find it much less distracting that running up to the door, hitting the wait button and watching a slider count down. That said, I don't get deep into RPing my characters. Maybe if you go do something different, or force yourself find a bed to sleep in (and watch said slider) it's not so bad.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747
I think the game would have to go much deeper and harder on the "sim" part to make NPC schedules more than an annoyance. Because the player avatar itself doesn't have a schedule. In Skyrim where you don't need to sleep to level up, you may even play the entire game without ever resting. So unless you go all realistic needs including circadian rhythm for the player character to kind of force players to stay in sync with NPC schedules, what's the point?

There's also the problem that time is accelerated in the games, with one real-world minute corresponding to one half-hour in game or something like that.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

For some reason I just didn't notice that stores were always open and always waited until noon anyway

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Cat Mattress posted:

I think the game would have to go much deeper and harder on the "sim" part to make NPC schedules more than an annoyance. Because the player avatar itself doesn't have a schedule. In Skyrim where you don't need to sleep to level up, you may even play the entire game without ever resting. So unless you go all realistic needs including circadian rhythm for the player character to kind of force players to stay in sync with NPC schedules, what's the point?

There's also the problem that time is accelerated in the games, with one real-world minute corresponding to one half-hour in game or something like that.

I always found it interesting that, because time is scaled down, that also means that distance is scaled down as well. Take the cloud district for example... it's.... it's right there, but maybe walking to it would, if this was 100% realistic, take 20-30 minutes. That doesn't really explain the massive difference between Skyrim's size, and how big the Illiac bay was made in Daggerfall, but at least walking from Whiterun to Solitude takes an appropriate amount of time in-game, even though the actual distance IRL would be like walking through a small town.

Also, I would never want to go heavy into the tedium of realism mods, but I think having some sort of debuff for not having eaten or slept for a while would make sense in the vanilla game. I know you get a bonus for being well-rested, but there should be something on the other end of that. Not game-breaking, but at least something to make both acts have purpose, if even a little.

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poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.


There is no way to make eating and sleeping in a game interesting, or having any kind of penalty for not doing

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