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CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen

Wark Say posted:

Why was Takamura vs Hawk (and most of the chapters that surrounded it) so drat good, though? Like, some of the fights can be stellar and even make you emotional, but how the devil did Morikawa pulled it off? Hell, it even made me not hate old man Kamogawa despite everything else the character is about before his flashback arc?

it was just classic shonen through and through. Hawk was built up to be the perfect heel, his trainer was this negative-world version of Kamogawa, and you had chapters upon chapters of Takamura starving himself Rikishii-style to reach the weight limit for the fight.

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Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006

Morikawa made hawk really hateable so you wanted to see Takamura kick his rear end. Takamura started at a disadvantage. The fight is the great back and forth between them pulling out moves and then countering each other.

Plus it's the first time you really see Takamura struggle in a fight. He's been pretty much a superman up to this point, so it's shocking to see him barely make it.

I watch the anime version of this fight at least every year. It's a god drat masterpiece.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

CharlestonJew posted:

it was just classic shonen through and through. Hawk was built up to be the perfect heel, his trainer was this negative-world version of Kamogawa, and you had chapters upon chapters of Takamura starving himself Rikishii-style to reach the weight limit for the fight.

Hawk's trainer seems to just have a good eye for Talent. It's how he got Woli too.

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


Monaghan posted:

Morikawa made hawk really hateable so you wanted to see Takamura kick his rear end. Takamura started at a disadvantage. The fight is the great back and forth between them pulling out moves and then countering each other.

Plus it's the first time you really see Takamura struggle in a fight. He's been pretty much a superman up to this point, so it's shocking to see him barely make it.

I watch the anime version of this fight at least every year. It's a god drat masterpiece.

Yeah, Takamura struggling for real finally was a huge thing in the manga / the fight that changed a lot. Also Takamuras brother and sister showing up when we never really knew anything about him before.

Namnesor
Jun 29, 2005

Dante's allowance - $100

Namnesor posted:

Takamura vs. Hawk is like six episodes of slabs of concrete throwing 747s at each other, and it's loving great

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Takamura vs Eagle was also a great fight.

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream
The hawk and eagle fights were both really well written with their dynamics. Eagle did a good job of challenging Takamura without making a heel out of his opponent.

FutureCop
Jun 7, 2011

Have you heard of Fermat's principle?

MonsterEnvy posted:

Hawk's trainer seems to just have a good eye for Talent. It's how he got Woli too.

A little silly if you think about it though: Miguel thought they could just ride through with their raw talent and unique fighting styles, but in both instances, his fighters lost because they did not have enough boxing fundamentals drilled into them. Why in the world did he count on Woli/Wally when he already learned this lesson from Hawk? It's been awhile since I read, so maybe he does give an excuse and I'm just not remembering it.

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



Woli was full on bullshit that still upsets me, even if it apparently supposed to be a tribute of some form to Joe given how out of place it was.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Woli/Wally is full-on bullshit and it straight-up made me give up on the manga for a while.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?

FutureCop posted:

A little silly if you think about it though: Miguel thought they could just ride through with their raw talent and unique fighting styles, but in both instances, his fighters lost because they did not have enough boxing fundamentals drilled into them. Why in the world did he count on Woli/Wally when he already learned this lesson from Hawk? It's been awhile since I read, so maybe he does give an excuse and I'm just not remembering it.

It's been awhile but I don't think Miguel was playing the same hand he did with Hawk. It was Woli's third professional fight or so and Miguel had taught him boxing fundamentals so that he could get started. He figured that Woli needed more experience at that point in time and fighting a national champion and one with deeply rooted fundamentals(in the first half of the series at least) was a good step forward. He also warned Kamogawa that Ippo's boxing style will lead to disaster and he doesn't get bad guy shading so Miguel seems pretty sharp.

Doomykins fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Sep 20, 2019

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen
Miguel is basically the only person in the series to acknowledge that Kamogawa is a lovely coach

Billzasilver
Nov 8, 2016

I lift my drink and sing a song

for who knows if life is short or long?


Man's life is like the morning dew

past days many, future days few

Where’s Ginpachi anyways? In a normal shonen, he would join the team to take over all the coaching duties that kamogawa is too lovely to do.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

FutureCop posted:

A little silly if you think about it though: Miguel thought they could just ride through with their raw talent and unique fighting styles, but in both instances, his fighters lost because they did not have enough boxing fundamentals drilled into them. Why in the world did he count on Woli/Wally when he already learned this lesson from Hawk? It's been awhile since I read, so maybe he does give an excuse and I'm just not remembering it.

I think he wanted Wally to get his fundamentals down. Like he was partially hoping Wally would lose so Wally would take things more seriously and allow Miguel to mold him into a better Boxer. Rather than becoming like Hawk and coasting on his talent.

Like I bet he was hoping to hold onto Hawk and mold him into a better Boxer had he not given up entirely from his sole loss. Hawk no doubt had more raw talent then Takamura and he likely could have been even better had his defeat motivated him to train and get better, instead of breaking him.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 21, 2019

FutureCop
Jun 7, 2011

Have you heard of Fermat's principle?

CharlestonJew posted:

Miguel is basically the only person in the series to acknowledge that Kamogawa is a lovely coach

Don't forget Vorg's coach, Ramuda, who famously said: "I find that Japanese trainers always spout the same answers. Answers like "fighting spirit" and "great effort" as they continue to push their fighters—and as a result, the fighter's career is shortened. Youth with immeasurable talent are broken..." Even Kamogawa couldn't say anything back to that.

tbp
Mar 1, 2008

DU WIRST NIEMALS ALLEINE MARSCHIEREN
another huge selling point about the hawk arc is how perfectly the fight is choreographed. compare it directly to say woli and it becomes obvious. the pace switches between the two pretty much nonstop, but each switch is more and more drastic than the last, culminating in takamura running out of gas and then going into his like animal mode. After all this, when the two are left on basically less than empty, the idea of takamura screaming at his legs and arms to move just a bit more, anticipating hawks buzarre counter, etc. it really just makes for a genius level fight

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Billzasilver posted:

Where’s Ginpachi anyways? In a normal shonen, he would join the team to take over all the coaching duties that kamogawa is too lovely to do.
:yeah:



The replacement ain't doing much for me. :v:

But seriously enough, Ginpachi strikes me as someone who, senility and punch-drunkenness aside, might be less vague about what Ippo would need to make a comeback.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008


Gravy Boat 2k
Welp, just went by and spent an hour and a half rewatching Takamura vs Hawk.....again. God drat, I forget how good a job the anime actually did.

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos
Hajime no Ippo's anime tends to do the fights very well. I sold my friend on it saying the punches sound like jet engines going off.

Shindragon fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Sep 21, 2019

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014

by sebmojo
I am immediately reminded of the fight vs. Sanada, where it sounds like a building just about ready to collapse.

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.


Grimey Drawer

Onmi posted:

Isn't that literally Gonzales's gimmick?! I would at least accept a gimmick where Martinez secret style is Peekaboo boxing

MonsterEnvy posted:

I think he was talking about Gonzales by mistake there.

I think Richardo was said to just really good.

Don't think so. I didn't feel like digging through all the manga but here's that part from the anime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaGcAE8DbX0&t=785s

Ricardo's second lays it out at 14:55. I did think it was weird/lazy that Gonzalez seemed to have the exact same thing going on but chalked it up to weird Japanese racism.

OnimaruXLR posted:

Ricardo's "true style" isn't a stance change or a secret second personality anything, it's just the character of his boxing when pushed is less about technical execution and more "tear some meat off."

Basically like Volg, but with less hand-wringing and emotional baggage. Or Gonzalez, with less macho rage.

I don't really remember how different Gonzalez got, maybe Ricardo's beastmode was more subtle.

e:
You bastards made me go watch the 90 minute supercut of the Hawk fight :argh:



We know, coach, we know.

Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Sep 22, 2019

mabels big day
Feb 25, 2012

Ippo is 100% getting back into the ring. I have no faith he actually stays retired at this point.

Huzzah!
Sep 15, 2007

Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie.
The HNI Scantrad version includes other mangaka's congratulations art for the 30th anniversary.



Also theres gonna be a stage play of Hajime no Ippo. Sure, why not.

Huzzah!
Sep 15, 2007

Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie.
Chapter 1276 and 1277 are out.
Just get back in the ring already, Ippo.
Is a girl liking Ippo in highschool more unbelieveable than all that Woli poo poo?

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk
Wow, so I guess this confirms it's been around five years since Ippo fought Date? Date Jr. looked like he was in primary school at the time and now seems to be a young teen

edit: and then the next chapter says it's been seven years since he graduated high school, so that sounds about right

edit: actually i guess i read them in the wrong order woops

OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Oct 4, 2019

pnumoman
Sep 26, 2008

I never get the last word, and it makes me very sad.

Huzzah! posted:

Is a girl liking Ippo in highschool more unbelieveable than all that Woli poo poo?

Nah, I can believe she had a crush on the meek little kid in class. If Ippo made a move when she finally admitted it tho, that would've been unbelievable.

mossyfisk
Nov 8, 2010

FF0000
Does Date even realize he's describing his heart attack?

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream
Date: What you need is FIRE. Like, when you arm goes numb and you have trouble breathing. *falls over*

Just get back in the ring already Ippo.

Billzasilver
Nov 8, 2016

I lift my drink and sing a song

for who knows if life is short or long?


Man's life is like the morning dew

past days many, future days few

Ippo’s parasitic classmates are gonna get him brained

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


mossyfisk posted:

Does Date even realize he's describing his heart attack?

It's not the corkscrew blow, its atherosclerosis

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen

Billzasilver posted:

Ippo’s parasitic classmates are gonna get him brained

"You're not a drooling wreck being pushed around in a wheelchair, you look fine to me!"

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream
Everyone wants Ippo to die of brain damage

Hypocrisy
Oct 4, 2006
Lord of Sarcasm

Please don't die Ippo, you have students who will learn the wrong lesson from it.

Huzzah!
Sep 15, 2007

Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie.
Chapter 1278
Ippo is gonna coach Sendo? This seems to be an ill omen for Sendo.

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

Huzzah! posted:

Chapter 1278
Ippo is gonna coach Sendo? This seems to be an ill omen for Sendo.

That all but guarantees that Sendo is either gonna die, or be beaten into a vegetative state.

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos
Yeah rip Sendo.

Watch Sendo's death be the one to make Ippo get back in the ring. for REVENGE! :v:

Fabricated
Apr 9, 2007

Living the Dream
So you see, the real trick is slamming your face into his fist until his arms get tired

pnumoman
Sep 26, 2008

I never get the last word, and it makes me very sad.

Shindragon posted:

Watch Sendo's death be the one to make Ippo get back in the ring. for REVENGE! :v:

Yeah, that's my bet as well.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen
Hey Sendo have you ever heard of this thing called a "left jab"? I just learned about it last week and it sounds pretty rad, you should try it!

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Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.


Grimey Drawer
Yeah they're really laying it on thick with every NPC suddenly begging Ippo to fight again. Hopefully the 30th anniversary slapped Morikawa awake and he's finally setting things up to END THIS poo poo. Not that I don't still enjoy reading, if sometimes ironically, but some sort of conclusion within anyone's lifetime would be nice.

And yeah, also gonna bet that Ippo pours all his coaching spirit into Sendo who eats poo poo and has to retire, so Ippo takes the baton back and starts heading for za waurdu.

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