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I mean, I'd give a poo poo if it was anyone but Disney and Marvel, who have spent the past, oh, four decades ish actively stomping out any attempt for indies and small trades in their wheelhouses from growing so forgive me if I find it hard to disagree with anyone who makes Iger mad enough to go "OH SO WHAT DO YOU NOT THINK BLACK PANTHER WAS IMPORTANT, RACIST?!"
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Oct 24, 2019 16:33
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Wasn't Scorcese the guy who liked Black Panther so much he made the people screening it for him rewind it? multiple times, I think? So I don't think anyone should take his words as a damning indictment, unless he is just making an exception for Black Panther which actually would make it more entertaining tbh 😂😂
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Oct 24, 2019 16:33
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Oct 24, 2019 16:34
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Scorsese's opinions of MCU are not nearly as offensive to me as Bob Iger using one of the very few directers of color the MCU has as a shield from criticism.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:34
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Yardbomb posted:If you wanna do that, I'm a broke trans/nb millennial with diagnosed depression, anxiety and the bergers who's had to live around southern fundie christian family and I've now for years been suffering from a kidney problem that I just flat out don't have the money or options to probably ever get fully fixed, so am in near daily pain without a constant dose of painkillers, which I have to constantly go in and argue to keep getting because of medical bullshit and the healthcare system trying to treat me like a drug fiend because DA OPIOD CRIIIISIS when I just want to not wake up some days feeling like I ate some glass, except he's wrong and sounds like a dumbass old snob. Outta my face with the oppression olympics. lol
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Oct 24, 2019 16:35
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Koalas March posted:Wasn't Scorcese the guy who liked Black Panther so much he made the people screening it for him rewind it? multiple times, I think? I really would love if he was just all 'no but Black Panther was legit yea' since that's what Iger went to as his big smuggo 'oh so are you saying diversity in movies doesn't matter' as if Marvel and Disney genuinely gave a poo poo about that
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Oct 24, 2019 16:35
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Yardbomb posted:And hell, I'm not even a fan of the marvel movies, I thought like 2 of them were good, haven't bothered to watch most, I've just gotten sick of old rich shits playing authority, yes disney are the system too, they also suck, but while they're also trash, the point is more that old white people going N-NUH UH, I DON'T LIKE THAT, IT'S NOT ~ART~ are lame, gently caress em.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:37
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also yea people spinning him making a completely valid 'yea I don't really see the appeal, they just kinda are generic popcorn movies you go to and I'm just not into that' statement and freaking out over ~art~ is genuinely annoying. It weirdly is way MORE reductive and harmful than his statement because it's creating this fake strawman of 'all movies MUST be art to be valid' and then saying 'no but that's right, it's just that Marvel IS art!!!!'
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Oct 24, 2019 16:39
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Oct 24, 2019 16:41
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Bug Squash posted:My local art museum has a display of letters they received from people who were mad as hell about them aquiring Andy Warhol and Roy Lichtenstein pieces. It's just a debate that cycles every generation. Of course, Scorsese was present for the last one so he's got a bit less excuse. logan is good. the guardians are good. winter soldier and civil war are pretty good. the spider man movies are good and the animated one is amazing. id even say some of the avengers are good too. least the last 2. black panther was good. i mean i am more a "classic" art person myself but andy is cool too. arts weird. i think art much like critical theory about it, is subjective as gently caress. you can think whatever. just be prepared to defend it. sexpig by night posted:I mean, I'd give a poo poo if it was anyone but Disney and Marvel, who have spent the past, oh, four decades ish actively stomping out any attempt for indies and small trades in their wheelhouses from growing so forgive me if I find it hard to disagree with anyone who makes Iger mad enough to go "OH SO WHAT DO YOU NOT THINK BLACK PANTHER WAS IMPORTANT, RACIST?!" yeah. gently caress the mouse.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:41
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didn't he even say in the first interview he thought the movies were fun? He wasn't even making GBS threads on them, nerds are just the most fragile people on earth and can't handle someone saying 'yea I don't think these movies are that deep'
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Oct 24, 2019 16:42
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Endorph posted:that isnt what he said at all. he said they're totally fine for what they are but that they aren't really art pieces designed to explore anything. I mean “It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being.” Scorsese was asked to offer his opinion again, and he doubled and tripled down. “It’s not cinema. It’s something else, we shouldn’t be invaded by it,” he later explained of the superhero-movie subgenre. “We need cinemas to step up and show films that are narrative films. Theaters have become amusement parks. That is all fine and good but don’t invade everything else in that sense,” the director said.” Sounds incredibly eye rolly.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:45
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like some marvel movies are fine but itd be cool to take the funds for THOR 17 THIS ONE MIGHT HAVE A FUNNY LINE and spread it out to like 20 random arthouse dudes to make whatever the gently caress they want, and law of averages says one or two of those might even be successful. it isnt even that the movies are bad just that by necessity of their huge budgets and global marketing they just, arent ever going to do certain things. black panther was the most radical of those and it still had a white cia agent presented as a good guy and a bad guy who thought racism was bad but like, he thought that *too* much you know. like theres a reason the most they can claw together for gay rep is a random background character mentioning his dead husband. these are mass market, bland products by design. they are meant to appeal to literally everyone on planet earth. and that doesn't mean they're bad or lack value whatsoever if you enjoy them but it means they're never going to do anything that interesting or fresh. Yardbomb posted:I mean How is that eyerolly? Disney literally bullies theaters into only showing their movies and showing them for a certain amount of time. Marvel movies are objectively, in a factual sense, bullying out smaller products and taking up like half of every year's film release cycle. They're even muscling out less franchise-y blockbusters. He literally says 'it's fine and good' for marvel movies to exist, just that they shouldn't destroy all other forms of filmmaking. Which Disney would be totally happy to do.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:46
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Scorsese is objectively wrong (for bringing it up at all and thus subjecting everyone to this interminable argument over and over again like Roger ebert did with video games aren't art)
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Oct 24, 2019 16:46
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Marvel movies are all CIA ops.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:48
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Bar Crow posted:Marvel movies are all CIA ops. and yeah captain marvel was literally a 2 hour long air force recruitment ad lol
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Oct 24, 2019 16:48
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Yardbomb posted:I mean He does have a slight point. It’s near impossible to get a film distributed if you don’t have Marvel money on your side. And even if you get lucky, it’s not going to make all that much when you’re up against an End Game. So it looks like you made a flop and the chances of any studio giving you money at that point is slim to none.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:49
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I enjoy MCU stuff well enough but I'm real fuckin tired of superhero poo poo after 10+ years and Disney forcing theaters to have their movies in a certain amount of showings is the worst.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:53
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Endorph posted:How is that eyerolly? It's the bits like "Theaters have become amusement parks" that makes me side-eye more of the rest of it, there are obviously parts that are right, from the first bits I've clarified that I don't have a problem with it because I love the pretty people supermovies and disney and all that, disney scraping hard to absorb all media as a whole is obviously horrible and not as if I'm one of the twitter weirdos trying to stick up for the poor little guy disney lol, I didn't say they're completely wrong persona non grata or anything, just that it grates on me because it gives off an ugly air of snobbery in parts that I'm tired of, I want to dislike every angle of our crap system.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:56
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Endorph posted:that isnt what he said at all. he said they're totally fine for what they are but that they aren't really art pieces designed to explore anything. They're just popcorn flicks. I think this is objectively wrong. Like you can make the argument that as films that some films are higher as art pieces than others and the MCU movies have some level of modern 21st century consumerism in them; but at the same time all media are reflections of their pre-existing cultural context. They might not be the Usual Suspects but they're still art, with themes, social commentary, character arcs across multiple films, and plenty of substance to analyze and explore; they don't always do all of these things well at the same time but they are there. You can't look at the whole Thanos arc and conclude it wasn't about something or exploring something, that's ludicrous on its face. Wisecrack made like what, five videos exploring the possibly philosophical themes and ramifications? That's low hanging fruit to wit.
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Oct 24, 2019 16:57
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Yardbomb posted:It's the bits like "Theaters have become amusement parks" that makes me side-eye more of the rest of it, there are obviously parts that are right, from the first bits I've clarified that I don't have a problem with it because I love the pretty people supermovies and disney and all that, disney scraping hard to absorb all media as a whole is obviously horrible and not as if I'm one of the twitter weirdos trying to stick up for the poor little guy disney lol, I didn't say they're completely wrong persona non grata or anything, just that it grates on me because it gives off an ugly air of snobbery in parts that I'm tired of, I want to dislike every angle of our crap system. Raenir Salazar posted:I think this is objectively wrong.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:02
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i just want people to agree what the word art means for once
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Oct 24, 2019 17:05
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Junpei Hyde posted:i just want people to agree what the word art means for once Look, I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:07
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Endorph posted:'Theathers have become amusement parks' is him saying that they're showing nothing but marvel movies and associated disney products, and disney are the people strongarming them to do that. Then I wish he would just say that, because my stupid brain's come to attribute malice to a lot of things sounding certain ways.  Junpei Hyde posted:i just want people to agree what the word art means for once It's actually an acronym, Asexual Reproduction T
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Oct 24, 2019 17:10
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Old man yells at cloud. Everyone collectively loses their god drat minds.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:11
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the MCU is high fart
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Oct 24, 2019 17:14
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Junpei Hyde posted:i just want people to agree what the word art means for once Art is a spook 
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Oct 24, 2019 17:15
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I have it on good authority that Martin Scorsese is really quite a jovial fellow.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:16
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Classic Greek plays and Shakespeare were the Marvel movies of the day. The only difference now is cultural clout, and that's always what this dumbass "art" debate has been about. Just let people enjoy things, jesus. History will decide if it has merit or not. Endorph posted:I don't think it's meant to be snobbish or anything or that he's against the movies existing, just that he feels they're taking up too much room. 'Theathers have become amusement parks' is him saying that they're showing nothing but marvel movies and associated disney products, and disney are the people strongarming them to do that. For some reason I don't think Scorsese would have a problem if Disney strong armed theaters into showing movies he liked/made. 
Neo_Crimson fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 17:20
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He did say it wasn't Art, he said it wasn't Cinema you dumbasses.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:21
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If a superhero movie is shown and nobody watches it, is it art?
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Oct 24, 2019 17:37
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Neo_Crimson posted:For some reason I don't think Scorsese would have a problem if Disney strong armed theaters into showing movies he liked/made.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:40
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Like, who cares if Scorsese thinks marvel movies are/aren't art, you don't get a medal if you watch something an old dude thinks is good instead of a thing an old dude thinks is bad. His core point, that Disney's muscling in on theaters and the film industry is bad, is an obvious truth that anyone should agree with. People are lining up to take a stand for disney because they're more concerned with being approved of for liking the most popular thing on Earth than a megacorp having a monopoly.
Endorph fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 17:47
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Can’t believe the creator of MANTIS wrote something bad.
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Oct 24, 2019 17:48
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Neo_Crimson posted:Classic Greek plays and Shakespeare were the Marvel movies of the day. The only difference now is cultural clout, and that's always what this dumbass "art" debate has been about. honestly thats what i find funny. like people talk about Shakespeare(who i do love) as like super deep high art for smarties. when it was basicaly just super popular stuff for everyone based off already existing media for the most part. i mean yeah, there is depth and such but alot of stuff has depth. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 17:50
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the shakespeare comparison doesn't work in this context because shakespeare's plays were performed at like, two theaters and he wasn't trying to establish a media monopoly on, like, kabuki and vietnamese water puppets at the same time. and also a lot of government/city officials disliked him
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Oct 24, 2019 17:53
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Endorph posted:the shakespeare comparison doesn't work in this context because shakespeare's plays were performed at like, two theaters and he wasn't trying to establish a media monopoly on, like, kabuki and vietnamese water puppets at the same time. and also a lot of government/city officials disliked him i agree. i just always find the truth about Shakespeare funny after reading bloom and other lit critics for school. i feel like alot of regular folks would like shakespeare more if they realized how "mainstream" his plays are outside the "old" new English language barrier. maybe its just the history major in me though. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 17:56
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Endorph posted:the shakespeare comparison doesn't work in this context because shakespeare's plays were performed at like, two theaters and he wasn't trying to establish a media monopoly on, like, kabuki and vietnamese water puppets at the same time. and also a lot of government/city officials disliked him If this debate was just about Disney monopolizing theaters, then why mention Marvel movies not being "cinema" at all? Disney would do that with more arthouse movies if they could. If not them, then Sony or Paramount. Even those indie studios too if they had the money.
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Oct 24, 2019 18:03
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Neo_Crimson posted:If this debate was just about Disney monopolizing theaters, then why mention Marvel movies not being "cinema" at all? Disney would do that with more arthouse movies if they could. If not them, then Sony or Paramount. Even those indie studios too if they had the money. Because his point is that only one kind of movie is being allowed to exist, flashy hollywood blockbusters. Which has always been an issue but Disney has exacerbated that problem tenfold.
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Oct 24, 2019 18:13
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I love the Marvel movies but he's right.
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Oct 24, 2019 18:21
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