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Honestly just making paradise druid and goose only make green mana would would help slow green decks down a little.
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Oct 27, 2019 15:38
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https://twitter.com/fireshoes/status/1188294950385045504
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Oct 27, 2019 16:30
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You know whats worse than Oko in standard is Oko in limited
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Oct 27, 2019 16:42
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I went through the Day 2 decklists and ran a quick tally because i was  102 Decks Sultai Food: 36 Simic Food: 25 Golgari Adventures: 11 Gruul: 5 Temur Reclamation: 4 Bant Ramp: 3 Simic Flash: 3 Jund CatFood: 2 Bant Food: 2 Temur Midrange: 1 GW Adventures: 1 Gruul Adventure: 1 5-Color Fires: 1 Rakdos Catfood: 1 Esper Dance: 1 Azorious Control: 1 Izzet Flash: 1 Grixis Fires: 1 Jeskai Fires:1 Mardu Knights:1 So we can extrapolate a few things from this data: 1. LoL Oko like omfg jc 2. Enough grinders anticipated Simic Food being the best deck that they played the Sultai mirror breaker version, and now it's gonna be Sultai mirrors all day. 3. Despite Lee Shi Tian's heroic demonstration at MCV, Mono-Red can't exist in an environment when everyone has incidental life gain or indestructible creatures at every stage of the game. 4. 97 out of 102 are green decks. They are the 7 listed on the bottom. 5. Main deck Noxious Grasps ALL DAY and Vraska showing up in big numbers to eat Oko. 6. This format is CONCLUSIVELY dominated by planeswalker strategies and honestly still would be if Oko gets banned. Nissa is queen, Teferi is less en vogue but still dominant, and high end 5-6 mana walkers are all over the place closing out games. Tales Ends are a good pick up. 7. I was expecting a lot more Fires to succeed, and I can't really tell whats keeping them down. Fires isn't a Creature deck, but still seems incredibly soft to Oko and planeswalker strategies. I think some stronger version of these decks exist, and i'm curious what adaptation it needs. Basically just burn the 4 WC on Oko now because he's either the best card in every format right now and forever or he's gonna get E-Banned and you'll get a playset of Mythic WC back. The exciting things that stand out to me are: A) Golgari Adventures doing work and making me proud in this bloated Oko field. It really does have strong game vs. Simic strategies, with both its excellent removal suite and it's "go-wide-with-value" strategies. B) Korvald, Fae-Cursed King showing up in Day 2 decklists is loving awesome, and seems to be the only Brawl card making waves in standard? C) I'm gonna have to do some testing with the Gruul Adventure set-up. It's different but maybe Gruul just needs more of that green value. e:fb gooddammit whatever i had fun doing it while eating spaghetti
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Oct 27, 2019 16:47
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Woot I made diamond finally, got a good run of stuff that was broadly actually playing magic, and my deck is well fettled for actually playing magic.
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Oct 27, 2019 16:50
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Bust Rodd posted:7. I was expecting a lot more Fires to succeed, and I can't really tell whats keeping them down. Fires isn't a Creature deck, but still seems incredibly soft to Oko and planeswalker strategies. I think some stronger version of these decks exist, and i'm curious what adaptation it needs. fires sucks because the top deck is nothing but mana acceleration and resilient threats, theres not a lot of double-spell turns or fae of wish targets on turn 5 that will actually get you caught up also oko makes it really hard for planeswalkers to stick, when i was running golos i'd bring oko in against fires because its super hard for then to account for
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Oct 27, 2019 16:59
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The really obnoxious thing about Oko is that if you can't pressure or kill him early you just get into a situation wheres he's sitting at double digits loyalty while churning out token pressure Maybe a Grixis fires deck would work for noxious grasp but then you just run into the issue that simics end game of massive Hydroid Krasis just owns you
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Oct 27, 2019 17:07
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I don't think they change the bots much
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Oct 27, 2019 17:11
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Lmao Arena is such a bad game at the moment. Its legit terrible. Standard is 70% Oko decks. Oko isn't banned in Brawl. But at least I guess I can concede immediately. Limited bots still don't value mill cards high enough so you see a poo poo ton of loving mill. Every single format is hosed.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:16
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AngryBooch posted:Lmao Arena is such a bad game at the moment. Its legit terrible. Doubling down on my complaining about planeswalkers. Land card completely dominates meta? Ban. Planeswalker does the same thing? Lol.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:24
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pointsofdata posted:I don't think they change the bots much I just did a limited run that was very refreshing. Only one mill deck and I just rushed him down. When there's no mill Eldraine limited is super fun.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:25
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The Sean posted:Doubling down on my complaining about planeswalkers. Land card completely dominates meta? Ban. Planeswalker does the same thing? Lol. Still lots more ways to interact with walkers than Lands
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Oct 27, 2019 17:49
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Nice meta you got there
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Oct 27, 2019 17:51
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Eking out a win against an opponent that resolved two Okos and two Nissas was pretty satisfying, but not really worth it for how frustrating the actual game was. Ban all planeswalkers. Also 'everyone plays this game too slow' is basically as evergreen a complaint about the game as there can be, but this weekend has felt really miserable to me. I guess I should take a break.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:26
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Still lots more ways to interact with walkers than Lands This doesnt address what I said at all.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:28
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The Sean posted:This doesnt address what I said at all. Yes it does. It illustrates why they were so quick to ban one and not the other. That being said, I'm pretty certain Oko will eat a ban
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Oct 27, 2019 18:31
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The whole 'we have this brand new play design process to make sure everything works as intended' thing really doesn't seem to be going as smoothly anymore. With Oko it really seems like it should have been obvious from the start instead of some kind of unforeseen interaction that just snuck up on them when it got into the wild.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 18:34
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Sinteres posted:The whole 'we have this brand new play design process to make sure everything works as intended' thing really doesn't seem to be going as smoothly anymore. Honestly there is no way play design wouldn't catch this, this isn't some non-intuitive combo it's just a case of extremely good generic value. Something either changed at the last minute or someone higher up wanted a busted mythic to sell packs.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:38
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imweasel09 posted:Honestly there is no way play design wouldn't catch this, this isn't some non-intuitive combo it's just a case of extremely good generic value. Something either changed at the last minute or someone higher up wanted a busted mythic to sell packs. This is what the Arena Decklist guys posit, and it makes sense. In fact, I bet they actually know this for certain since at least one of them (GerryT) likely knows some of the people on Play Design and is getting this from them off the record, but of course they can't come out and say this on the podcast.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:50
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drainpipe posted:This is what the Arena Decklist guys posit, and it makes sense. In fact, I bet they actually know this for certain since at least one of them (GerryT) likely knows some of the people on Play Design and is getting this from them off the record, but of course they can't come out and say this on the podcast. It does feel like a Skullclamp situation where it was changed at the last minute. I'm guessing originally the Food ability was +1 and the Elk ability was -1 until just before it shipped out the door. Play Design definitely seem to prefer to put out sets with powerful cards on the assumption that anything too out of hand gets banned and that there will still be a bunch of other powerful stuff out there, but Oko & Field of the Dead seem to be a step too far. Hopefully we aren't going to see an Masques style overcorrection though.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:04
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So it seems like the only way to play this game is to break action economy and have some combo that let's you draw and play a billion cards, no matter how useless they are. That is significantly less fun than just playing the game and trying to kill the other person.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:12
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pointsofdata posted:I don't think they change the bots much yeah I played a draft to see if I could feel the changes and if anything it feels harder to pick up good black cards to beat the secretkeepers a secretkeeper was the last pick of pack 3. Internet Explorer posted:So it seems like the only way to play this game is to break action economy and have some combo that let's you draw and play a billion cards, no matter how useless they are. That is significantly less fun than just playing the game and trying to kill the other person. there's like no decks in standard that do this that aren't complete jank, what were you even playing against?
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Oct 27, 2019 19:17
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flatluigi posted:there's like no decks in standard that do this that aren't complete jank, what were you even playing against? I'm not at the level that I keep track of what decks are what. All I know is that it always seems to involve lots of lands, lots of Planeswalkers, and lots of drawing cards. Whatever it is, it seems like if your goal is anything other than to always be drawing cards, you're going to lose.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:19
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I preferred Eldrazi winter to Oko
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Oct 27, 2019 19:44
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I prefer Oko to Field of the Dead personally. Oko decks lack the inevitability of Golos, and all of their other cards are strong but feel beatable. In any case the overwhelming response to Oko, as seen in the MCQ, is PLAY MORE BLAK
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Oct 27, 2019 19:48
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When is the next b/r announcement? Though I guess they could move it up again.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:53
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Doltos posted:You know whats worse than Oko in standard is Oko in limited Yes, but I’m usually more willing to forgive busted mythical in limited because they ruin far fewer games by the numbers. Though Oko is particularly frustrating in limited because he pretty much WILL win you the game but it might take a while, which is just awful to play against. Most busted mythics will at least end the game in a few turns
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Oct 27, 2019 20:23
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I dunno I kinda feel like Hydroid Krasis could have used a ban. It always feels more willbreaking that fields or Oko, because there's nothing you can do to stop it (except maindeck Tale's End I guess?) and they never don't draw into another one.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:44
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Krasis was a perfectly fine card in those Sultai Midrange decks prior to War of the Spark. Nissa juiced it up to ridiculous levels. Nissa used to be less durable, often dying the same turn she came down. But then Oko came along and froze out aggro while absorbing an early planeswalker removal spell. Nissa is more durable due to Oko. Gilded Goose is better than llanowar elves and is one of the best mana dorks ever printed. Once Upon a Time is extremely powerful but I'm not sure it'd be out of hand if it weren't able to fetch a goose. I think it'd be fair if it were just looking for Innkeepers, adventure creatures, or mana fixing. Think Oko and Goose both need to go.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:52
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Zero VGS posted:I dunno I kinda feel like Hydroid Krasis could have used a ban. It always feels more willbreaking that fields or Oko, because there's nothing you can do to stop it (except maindeck Tale's End I guess?) and they never don't draw into another one. I agree, it was an important card in field decks too. Especially with Nissa around it generates so much value. It'll be pretty funny if they ban it instead of Oko though
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Oct 27, 2019 20:56
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Goose is hardly overpowered without Oko. Gruul and Golgari midrange both dropped it immediately. The problem is, as you alluded, how your threats line up with their resources. Goose into Oko into Wolf into Nissa into Krasis. Each one skirts around usual answers, answers their threats and grinds the game out. Throw in Vraska if Wolf isn't good, but same basic thing - lines up perfectly.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:57
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Spiderdrake posted:Goose is hardly overpowered without Oko. Gruul and Golgari midrange both dropped it immediately. A mana fixing one drop accelerant is too strong for standard, full stop.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:09
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Oko walls out aggro with Elk tokens (on a freaking +1!!!!), cuts the legs out of midrange by turning their high value creatures into useless Elks (even the incredibly overloaded Questing Beast can't handle Oko the turn after) and puts a clock against control by constantly generating creatures. He's absolutely next on the chopping black.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:10
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Yeah, Goose is absolutely amazing frankly, it's one of the bases of all my green/x decks. The fact that it throws out food other cards can use and that boosts things that care abotu tokens (I still have an unhealthy attachment to WOodland Champion) is just gravy.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:14
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4x Icon of Ancestry (naming Elk) + 4x Mirrormade is the obvious Oko counter you fools. You absolute buffoons.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:16
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Tom Gorman posted:4x Icon of Ancestry (naming Elk) + 4x Mirrormade is the obvious Oko counter you fools. You absolute buffoons. Until Oko turns those icons.... into elks.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:18
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It’s honestly super weird that Questing Beast would be so pushed towards being an anti-planeswalker card but it cannot meaningfully interact with any of the Eldraine walkers at all.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:24
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It's a strong anti-walker card just due to being unblockable by chumps, and being able to target walkers and life at the same time. The fact that two of the strongest walkers CAN chump with 3-power creatures is just... balance issues. Both Nissa and Oko should probably make 2-power like most of the others do.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:26
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It's honestly weird to me that Questing Beast could be printed without Vigilance and Deathtouch and still be a perfectly fair Green card.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:26
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AngryBooch posted:A mana fixing one drop accelerant is too strong for standard, full stop.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:29
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