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Tired: Ban Oko. Wired: Ban Gilded Goose. Edit: What's in those Brawl preconstructed packs that makes them worth hunting down? Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 18:45
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BTW the 1-for-1 trades with Oko are bad because Oko will have generated value before you have a chance to ping him with a removal spell, advancing your game state none while the opponent has messed up the board for equal or fewer resources than you spent. Then next turn Questing Beast or Wicked Wolf drops. Or maybe just another Oko while one green mana is open to veil your next removal spell and make it a 0-for-1. This predicament can happen on turn 2 so you are in a fuckin' hurry as the longer Oko lasts the more value he's generating and the sooner he and gilded goose can shift to full-time elk production and bury you.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:52
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Mat Cauthon posted:Tired: Ban Oko. Arcane Signet and the commanders, i'm guessing. There are not a whole lot of 3 colour commanders in Standard right now.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:53
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Inspired: errata Oko to be 1guu and elking to a 0.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:56
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:BTW the 1-for-1 trades with Oko are bad because Oko will have generated value before you have a chance to ping him with a removal spell This is how every Planeswalker has worked since they were introduced. You can (and do) rightfully argue that your removal probably costs equal or more, and that isn't ideal, but Walkers always have and always will generate value before removal if they hit the battlefield
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Oct 27, 2019 19:07
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:This is how every Planeswalker has worked since they were introduced. You can (and do) rightfully argue that your removal probably costs equal or more, and that isn't ideal, but Walkers always have and always will generate value before removal if they hit the battlefield Like JTMS Oko does a lot to invalidate the creature combat side of removing planeswalkers by replacing them with meals for Questing Beast, or making his own 3/3 to block for him, and having way too much loyalty. That's why Oko is overpowering standard. The answers are unreliable and inefficient and leave you not much better off even if they do work.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:11
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Mat Cauthon posted:Tired: Ban Oko. They each have a shockland in addition to arcane signet and other interesting commander cards. Faerie deck has smothering tithe. Very solid value included.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:12
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:This is how every Planeswalker has worked since they were introduced. You can (and do) rightfully argue that your removal probably costs equal or more, and that isn't ideal, but Walkers always have and always will generate value before removal if they hit the battlefield This has also, coincidentally, been an issue with Walkers for a very long time
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Oct 27, 2019 19:18
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There are 130 Noxious Grasp main in 102 decks in this Arena MCQ.
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Oct 27, 2019 19:22
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If there are 3 mana Walkers that generate instant value and continue to dominate once they’re down, fine, but that means it’s time to print good playable answers to them that cost 1
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Oct 27, 2019 19:22
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Andrast posted:How dominant were other standard boogeymen of the day? Like how bad was caw blade? Caw Blade started changing 10+ maindeck cards solely as mirror breakers, and it was correct, because the deck was naturally powerful enough to beat other strategies, which is good because it wasn't like Caw Blade was 75% of the field. If Jace hadn't been wildly expensive, more people would have moved onto Caw Blade, which would have made the mirror-teched versions even better. Maybe Oko being so expensive (it's 90 tix online lol) means Oko won't take over as much in paper? Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The only way to stop a bad guy with Sultai Food is another bad guy with Sultai Food, or maybe a bad guy with Bant Food. fixed
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Oct 27, 2019 19:28
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I'm at the point where I think gilded goose is better than llanowar elves and it's not particularly close.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:02
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AngryBooch posted:I'm at the point where I think gilded goose is better than llanowar elves and it's not particularly close. It’s competition is and always had been Bird of Paradise and it might actually come out the winner.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:06
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AngryBooch posted:I'm at the point where I think gilded goose is better than llanowar elves and it's not particularly close. what do you feed it? oko tokens? (i haven't followed much of this standard)
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Oct 27, 2019 20:10
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Mat Cauthon posted:Tired: Ban Oko. Beyond the deck exclusive stuff, they each have a shock land and to a much lesser extent a temple. Knight of the ebon legion, smothering tithe. Each deck seems to have a couple cards worth $2-$3.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:21
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Yawgmoth posted:Where? I live in a major metro and my FNMs cap out at like 40 if there's a huge promo happening. Card Kingdom, at the height of the “terrible standard” of mono black / blue / UW control they were maxing out FNM’s for their space.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:22
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You, dumb:TheKingofSprings posted:If there are 3 mana Walkers that generate instant value and continue to dominate once they’re down, fine, but that means it’s time to print good playable answers to them that cost 1 Me, smart: Duress 
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Oct 27, 2019 20:29
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Duress seems particularly horrendous right now - you only need to miss like 10% of the time for that card to be unplayable, and against the decks with 4 Oko, 4 Nissa, 4 Once upon a Time and maybe some Grasps or Distainful Strokes, Duress is particularly likely to whiff. Like imagine an opponent has the turn 1 Swamp Duress, and your hand has lands, creatures and a Once upon a Time - you get to turn 0 Once and their Duress whiffs! And then obviously you topdeck Oko for the turn two Oko play for full rub-ins.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:41
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TheKingofSprings posted:It’s competition is and always had been Bird of Paradise and it might actually come out the winner.
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Oct 27, 2019 20:43
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rkajdi posted:Considering they were just as screwed by wotc as you were, I wouldn't be hard on them reselling those decks. Gooooooooooooooo fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yourself!
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Oct 27, 2019 20:55
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PJOmega posted:Gooooooooooooooo fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yourself! Its like race to the bottom these days.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:10
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Like JTMS Oko does a lot to invalidate the creature combat side of removing planeswalkers by replacing them with meals for Questing Beast, or making his own 3/3 to block for him, and having way too much loyalty. of course the big difference is that you need to be able to resolve a 4 CMC spell with a board of no more than one dude with JTMS, versus Okos setup being "be on the play or actually who cares you can cast it on turn 2 against a two drop lmao" and whose ability to defend itself is "gain some loyalty and pongify a fool"
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Oct 27, 2019 21:12
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Tubgoat posted:I didn't agree with this before but after playing some more Arena, I completely agree now. It's so innocuous - at first glance, the card reads "3G, T: gain 3 life", or at best "1G, T: you can activate me again next turn". But against aggro, it's actually an insane value engine that you have to remove even if the opponent already has a billion mana. Niton fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 21:24
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Rinkles posted:what do you feed it? oko tokens? (i haven't followed much of this standard) You feed it food tokens (artifact that you can pay 2 and sac to gain 3 life) but it can also make those tokens, which you can then use with Oko to swap for your opponent's best creature, or use to make your Wicked Wolf bigger and unkillable (until EoT). It's not busted but it synergizes just a little too well, in addition to ramp utility.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:31
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Niton posted:It's so innocuous - at first glance, the card reads "3G, T: gain 3 life", or at best "1G, T: you can activate me again next turn". But it's actually aggro, it's actually an insane value engine that you have to remove even if the opponent already has a billion mana.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:37
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Seeing the Simic Whirza decks where Oko and Gilded Goose make food tokens that then also tap for mana was sure something Also counting towards making the Karn token chubby enough to kill people for good measure
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Oct 27, 2019 21:42
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The more I play brawl, the more I wish it was just an option I could play whenever I want. Every other format on Arena is horrendous. I've also noticed that there are a lot of decks that just do not function at all if you kill their commander like, 2 times.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:47
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Mat Cauthon posted:You feed it food tokens (artifact that you can pay 2 and sac to gain 3 life) but it can also make those tokens, which you can then use with Oko to swap for your opponent's best creature, or use to make your Wicked Wolf bigger and unkillable (until EoT). oh i get it. it's ability to make food is powerful in and of itself, irrespective of it's ability to ramp.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:50
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Rinkles posted:oh i get it. it's ability to make food is powerful in and of itself, irrespective of it's ability to ramp. Yeah; it's a one-shot accelerant that then becomes a game-controlling value engine. Every time you have 2 mana at EOT, you can just recharge its mana ability or feed your deck's synergies.
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Oct 27, 2019 21:59
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Rinkles posted:oh i get it. it's ability to make food is powerful in and of itself, irrespective of it's ability to ramp. Yeah, the ability "1G, T: Make a Food" is actually good. In Limited, a one mana creature whose only ability was "1G, T: Make a Food" would be an exceptionally high pick. In Standard, it's not that good...but it's also attached to a mana creature that makes a food when it enters play, and Goose goes in the same deck as a planeswalker with effectively unlimited loyalty who makes a food every turn, and a 0/2 Flying body isn't a blank and can save quite a lot of damage over the course of a game.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:01
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Think a lot of these artifact token mechanics in recent sets should be counters i.e. energy counters. And they should print a poo poo load of cards that interact with counters in White to expand its color identity, and some in Red as well. And an artifact or two that do as well. If Oko couldn't elk or exchange a food token because it were actually a counter, we might be halfway to fixing him. I dunno, just spitballing here.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:07
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https://www.wizards.com/magic/starter/starter/welcome.asp
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Oct 27, 2019 22:22
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that rhox art was my introduction to mtg
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Oct 27, 2019 22:25
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I'd love to see the marketing brains involved in deciding that Rhox and Vizzerdrix were the new Faces of Magic.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:40
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Toshimo posted:I'd love to see the marketing brains involved in deciding that Rhox and Vizzerdrix were the new Faces of Magic.
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Oct 27, 2019 22:49
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Anyone have a couple Pioneer Arclight lists I can look at? I’d like to resurrect dead modern deck that I never played before the looting banning. Tia!
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Oct 27, 2019 23:00
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5 of the 8 decks in the SCG Modern top 8 are Whirza featuring 4 goose 4 oko
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Oct 27, 2019 23:06
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The first Pioneer Challenge was today, right? Curious what the format looks like after a proper event like that.
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Oct 27, 2019 23:06
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Sit on my Jace posted:The first Pioneer Challenge was today, right? Curious what the format looks like after a proper event like that. I woke up at 8:30 this morning to play in it, but then I decided I'd rather not play MTGO. It started at 6am for the west coast US lol.
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Oct 27, 2019 23:12
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Tubgoat posted:Better ones than we got now. Rhox wasn't that outlandish. For a Timmy creature and especially for the time, it had a pretty non-insulting combination of cost, stats and textbox. Vizzerdrix, on the other hand, has no defensible reason to ever exist, let alone as a rare. Same for its cousin Trained Orgg.
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Oct 27, 2019 23:15
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