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Mat Cauthon posted:Kids that got shipped off for medieval-type apprenticeships weren't much older than that, yeah. Sure, but this just seemed like a different situation, it being a small village they never really left. A little googling backs you up, and also shows other readers did think he was an orphan "..and in Faile's arms, Perrin broke down. 'I sort of knew them!!!i look like them!! they didn't really teach me anything about life or raise me but they're gone!! im pretty sad!!!! " Brolander fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Oct 27, 2019 |
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Oct 27, 2019 16:24
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Data Graham posted:Lol if the series makes up more characters Maybe they tug their braids in a different direction.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:10
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Atlas Hugged posted:There's also nothing else in the book, and maybe even the series, that operates that way. I was expecting it this reread and how he transitions from "this is where we are right now" to "now we're in the past" is at best vague and is sloppily handled so that first time readers could easily think the story is progressing forward when it's actually gone back a few days. The thing is, it's not like it's some crazy avant-garde narrative trick to do a skip-forward followed by a recap of what went on in the past few days. It's super common, and not just in movies with wacky nonlinear plots. People write like that all the time. It's a great way to break up the monotony of an otherwise repetitive or tedious narration. "'Oh! I feel like we've been walking for days!' She cried. It was true—they had been walking for days, trudging through the valleys and canyons and —" dot dot dot. Nothing challenging about that. The way the scarves thing is worded, though, is crazy misleading. The first iteration makes you think the encounter had happened in the past (going by verb tenses), and it never really puts you back on the right track with any clarifying language—seemingly intentionally, because a) it's totally easy to make that kind of narration clearer if you actually want to do so, and b) the story is deliberately trudging down a long endless road from village to village, farmer's cottage to farmer's cottage, over and over again, seemingly to try to bewilder the reader and make you unsure of your footing in time. A long time ago when I was writing comics I had the idea of trying to do dialogue that sounds actually natural—like seriously true to the way people talk in real life. Because nobody actually talks the way they do in print, no matter how "realistic" the dialogue is. Even the most verité style of scripted speech avoids all the stuttering, "um", "uh", stumbling over words, restarting sentences in the middle, all the kinds of meandering fitful babbling we do in real life. My thought was that if I tried to capture that kind of real realism, it would be a breakthrough of style, something really unique. But over time I eventually realized that writers do massage even their realest dialogue to be a lot more structured and economical than real-world verbal speech, and for good reason: it's unbearable to read it otherwise. Just absolute poo poo. Nobody wants to read a comic full of "um" and "uh" and sentence fragments and wrong word choice and all the dumb things we do when we're actually talking. (The difference between a raw transcript of even a politician's stump speech or interview—even a rehearsed one—and the cleaned-up-for-reprint version is a very vivid illustration of this. If it weren't worthwhile to clean it up, they wouldn't bother; but they have to otherwise it'd be agony to try to parse out in print, even for a politician who talks well.) Anyway that's kind of what I feel like Jordan was trying to do. He wanted a degree of narrative "realism" that conveyed the monotony and repetitiveness of the journey through atmosphere as much as through direct description, and that atmosphere included this odd disorienting narrative structure, which he could have easily avoided if he'd wanted to. Now, personally I feel like maybe a better choice might have been not to have the journey be so monotonous and repetitive to begin with, but that's his worldbuilding choice; I'll grant that the daily tedium of a long journey on foot while sick is something you're going to have to portray if you want your world to feel lived-in and expansive and well-populated, like a real-world place full of dull politics and daily chores and not all dragon battles and palace feasts day in day out. That's a totally valid choice. But even so—it's possible to do that kind of worldbuilding and be engaging about it and yet not deliberately gently caress with the reader's sanity. You can describe encounter 1 of N one way, then back off the description of each subsequent one as you go on, and eventually skip whole days of travel and maybe tell a side story or do something else to serve a narrative beat while still preserving the sense that they're in a long tedious slog. But by the time I got to the third book and the party had entered its fortieth inn which was described to the same nauseating level of detail, from the name hanging over the door to the layout of the tables to the invariably "bustling" innkeeper drying his hands on his apron, it was pretty clear to me that that's not how Jordan rolls. The repetitiveness and the tedium are kind of his thing.
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Oct 27, 2019 17:42
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Brolander posted:If you didn't pay attention you might think he was an orphan for how much he quotes the Luhanns. Yeah, I remember the first time I got to that part being real confused.I remember thinking wait, Perrin's family died, why are the Luhans showing up Data Graham posted:Was that the scarves thing? Yeah the scarves thing is just a bit of meta-narrative that Jordan flubbed the landing on.
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Oct 27, 2019 18:23
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There's an entire book that uses the same concept
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Oct 27, 2019 18:31
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FWIW I'm ok with not meeting Perrin's family. We knew the character well enough that his grief was real, the important bit was what it meant to him
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Oct 27, 2019 19:38
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Rereading the series, I'm sort of surprised by some of the stuff I missed that was really predictable. You learn in the first book that the Aiel send male channelers into the Blight to "kill Sightblinder". You learn in the second book that channelers can be forcibly turned to the Shadow. And in book 7 or so you learn that channelers who are not bound by an Oath Rod can live to be several hundred years old. But somehow I never put all these facts together to reach the logical conclusion that there's probably 500+ years worth of Shadow-turned male channelers living in the Blight somewhere.
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Oct 28, 2019 00:03
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Enough people were hung up on the scarves thing that it got its own entry in the WOTFAQ! click here to be taken back to pure 90s Internet gold
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Oct 28, 2019 01:21
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buffalo all day posted:Enough people were hung up on the scarves thing that it got its own entry in the WOTFAQ! I see that my name has survived in the contributors section.
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Oct 28, 2019 01:45
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Khizan posted:Rereading the series, I'm sort of surprised by some of the stuff I missed that was really predictable. And their descendants. It's not really a twist but it a nice culmination of lots of overlapping things that shake up the stakes in the Last Battle. It seems like humanity is coming together and might be able to present a united front and BOOM there's like 6 different unexpected threats dropped in from seemingly nowhere to completely gently caress poo poo up. More of that sort of complex plotting coming to a head in the earlier books would've been nice.
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Oct 28, 2019 01:46
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buffalo all day posted:Enough people were hung up on the scarves thing that it got its own entry in the WOTFAQ! quote:Tadalafil and sildenafil citrate are two major impotence treatment often prescribed to men suffering from erectile dysfunction or problems getting and keeping an erection. Generic tadalafil is the ingredient often used in production of non-brand medications, which are absolutely identical and have the same effectiveness as the brand ones. Read full info: somespammyurl.com 
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Oct 28, 2019 02:42
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Invalid Validation posted:I don’t even remember that one specifically and I read it recently. I just know whenever I’m confused the most with his writing is when he just time travels/dream prophecies all of a sudden. It might also be cause I’m reading on kindle but there has been a couple times he switches perspectives without a break and it takes like 3 paragraphs before you can figure that out. The books have little symbols at the start of chapters that clue you in on what going to happen in that chapter. Haven't read them in forever but I don't remember struggling with that at all. Not sure if the kindle version keeps those in.
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Oct 28, 2019 17:14
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Dankzilla posted:The books have little symbols at the start of chapters that clue you in on what going to happen in that chapter. Haven't read them in forever but I don't remember struggling with that at all. Not sure if the kindle version keeps those in. It does. I've got them all on Kindle and have been rereading them along with that WoT Spoilers podcast posted upthread.
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Oct 28, 2019 18:57
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Apparatchik Magnet posted:I see that my name has survived in the contributors section. Huh I could've sworn there was a h5 thing, but hi fellow contributor!
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Oct 28, 2019 21:25
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Huh I could've sworn there was a h5 thing, but hi fellow contributor! Please tell me you're Timothy Bruening and it was all one huge troll.
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Oct 28, 2019 22:41
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Apparatchik Magnet posted:Please tell me you're Timothy Bruening and it was all one huge troll. Cinderblock belonged to Marilin Gemalphan. This now is canon.
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Oct 28, 2019 23:31
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The only other real complaint that continued to bother me in Eye of the World (and now into my second chapter of The Great Hunt) is everyone’s extreme mistrust of Moiraine specifically and Aes Sedai in general. I feel like he hints at the fact that maybe they’ve heard stories/legends about the Aes Sedai but we never hear any of them (so far), so it makes everyone’s distrust of Moiraine feel really forced. If a bunch of basically kids are away from home for the first time, you would think the one person guiding them and keeping them safe (with HER MAGIC) from every awful/evil obstacle they face would develop not only trust but dependence. It’s just one of those “the gang doesn’t trust Aes Sedai because gently caress you I said so that’s why, they don’t need a reason” things that doesn’t flow naturally from the writing.
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Oct 29, 2019 02:44
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Well there's the whole Aes Sedai won't lie to you but will absolutely allow you to believe something that's not true. And being so aloof all the time doesn't really endear much trust when you already feel like you're being manipulated. I get that they dealing with enormous world events and might not give a poo poo about the concerns of some country bumpkins but we don't get the story through Moiraine's point of view.
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Oct 29, 2019 02:56
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Soysaucebeast posted:It does. I've got them all on Kindle and have been rereading them along with that WoT Spoilers podcast posted upthread. Speaking of, Amazon just changed three of the book covers in the series and now I'm unreasonably mad about it. I really like the art they had (and still do for the other books) and hope they don't change all of them over to the boring new covers. I have Calibre and know I could just change them back with that, but if I do I won't be able to keep everything synced between my Kindle, my phone, and my work computer. This is so dumb and I hate it. 
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Oct 29, 2019 03:53
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That’s weird mine still shows the other covers.
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Oct 29, 2019 04:51
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Dankzilla posted:The books have little symbols at the start of chapters that clue you in on what going to happen in that chapter. Haven't read them in forever but I don't remember struggling with that at all. Not sure if the kindle version keeps those in. Those symbols also allowed Robert Jordan to be a bit sneaky. Like the chapter that had Lanfear's chapter icon at the start, yet there was no appearance by Lanfear in it... or so one might think when first reading the chapter.
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Oct 29, 2019 07:44
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lol the original covers were so bad they were good/funny
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Oct 29, 2019 08:58
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Mahoning posted:The only other real complaint that continued to bother me in Eye of the World (and now into my second chapter of The Great Hunt) is everyone’s extreme mistrust of Moiraine specifically and Aes Sedai in general. I feel like he hints at the fact that maybe they’ve heard stories/legends about the Aes Sedai but we never hear any of them (so far), so it makes everyone’s distrust of Moiraine feel really forced. If a bunch of basically kids are away from home for the first time, you would think the one person guiding them and keeping them safe (with HER MAGIC) from every awful/evil obstacle they face would develop not only trust but dependence. They Broke with the World with the Power. That's all people really seem to remember about Aes Sedai.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:21
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Mahoning posted:The only other real complaint that continued to bother me in Eye of the World (and now into my second chapter of The Great Hunt) is everyone’s extreme mistrust of Moiraine specifically and Aes Sedai in general. I feel like he hints at the fact that maybe they’ve heard stories/legends about the Aes Sedai but we never hear any of them (so far), so it makes everyone’s distrust of Moiraine feel really forced. If a bunch of basically kids are away from home for the first time, you would think the one person guiding them and keeping them safe (with HER MAGIC) from every awful/evil obstacle they face would develop not only trust but dependence. Think about how much people IRL (rightfully) distrust politicians and then imagine if politicians could use magic, had been not so secretly running the world for a couple thousand years, and oh those same people were responsible for the world-shattering cataclysm that basically set history as you know it in motion. That's all most people know about Aes Sedai, and for country bumpkins especially Aes Sedai are as much of a boogeyman as Trollocs. It's not absurd. They can appreciate Moiraine looking out for them while also suspecting that she has ulterior motives.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:31
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In one of the later books someone makes the point that the oath about not lying actually makes people more suspicious about Aes Sedai. Like everyone always assumes they're doing some wordplay pseudo-lying even if they're just trying to tell the truth.
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Oct 29, 2019 14:51
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Even moraine was like don’t trust any of them.
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Oct 29, 2019 15:05
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Also to a certain extent they were correct about not trusting Moiraine
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Oct 29, 2019 15:12
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Just finished a reread of great hunt, I had forgotten how unlikable Matt was while still linked to the dagger. At least after the trip through the portal stones, he started moving more towards the Matt we all love at the end of the series. All that said, if Perinn wasn't stuck with Faile, he'd be my favorite character, instead of Matt
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Oct 29, 2019 15:18
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The portal stones were cool and got us grolms. I wish there were more using them and less instant-travel teleportation. Seems kinda cheesy. 1/3 through book 14. Enjoying it so far.
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Oct 29, 2019 15:56
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:lol the original covers were so bad they were good/funny They sucked so much rear end. Atlas Hugged posted:They Broke with the World with the Power. That's all people really seem to remember about Aes Sedai. The only one worth trusting is Verin.
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Oct 29, 2019 15:58
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It really is amazing on this reread how much of books like seven through ten is just outright skippable. If the series gets that far they could do all four books in half a season.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It really is amazing on this reread how much of books like seven through ten is just outright skippable. If the series gets that far they could do all four books in half a season. Prior to starting each book on my first read, I looked at the blurb on the ebook and it was a paragraph of "So-and-so draws ever closer to the ultimate confrontation at the Last Battle". I kept thinking, no, surely they're just being coy, there's no way you could really summarize each of these huge books as "each thread of characters moves gradually from one place to another". But, welp.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It really is amazing on this reread how much of books like seven through ten is just outright skippable. If the series gets that far they could do all four books in half a season. Mat, Egwene, and Perrin could have been left in the village, like the pretty boy who got on the first book's cover but was cut from the group by an editor, and the main plot would have been unaffected.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:34
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It's hilarious to compare ASoFaI fandom's problems, perpetual yearly hope for a book that will never come out, to old Jordan fandom problems, several books in a row released yearly or nearly so like clockwork but with nothing happening and crap like the Faile kidnapping lingering forever.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:35
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ChubbyChecker posted:
Not an emptyquote.
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Oct 29, 2019 16:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It really is amazing on this reread how much of books like seven through ten is just outright skippable. If the series gets that far they could do all four books in half a season. Book 7 - fucks up Sammael, recover Bowl, Rand gets hosed up by Fain Book 8 - Bowl used, Rand arguably shows first real act of madness by blasting half his army while wrecking the Seanchan, open rebellion by Asha'man Book 9 - cleanse Saidin, Osan'gar gets teamkilled Book 10 - Egwene captured There, saved you the trouble. I forget if the chapter "In So Habor" happens in book 10 but its dope af
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Oct 29, 2019 17:10
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Oh wait, book 9 also has Birgitte getting drunk af to hide from Elayne going to town with Rand
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Oct 29, 2019 17:14
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Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who appreciated the Aes Sedai politics stuff in those books 
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Oct 29, 2019 17:15
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Oh no I'm really enjoying that stuff too this reread, particularly the hunt for the Black, but they are fairly slow moving
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Oct 29, 2019 17:17
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bloom posted:In one of the later books someone makes the point that the oath about not lying actually makes people more suspicious about Aes Sedai. Like everyone always assumes they're doing some wordplay pseudo-lying even if they're just trying to tell the truth. Yeah, that's where I could agree with their attitude. Even the ones who tell you the truth will not tell you the whole truth, or are flat out using it to manipulate whoever they're talking to. They'll admit it, and quite often they're huge dicks to whoever they're around at the time.
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