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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Blades last me at least a few years, but the wires not so much. I'm average at replacing the wires and it's kind of a pain in the rear end to do.

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLmrV6QHn1U

This is kinda neat.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

I guess I come from a fencing family, as my parents met in a fencing class when they were in college, but I’ve never done it. A few years ago my son attended a fencing demo at his school and told us he wanted to try it, so we signed him up. He has a lot of fun with it. I take him to the school on Tuesdays and Thursdays and wait on the sidelines while he fences. He does foil. While there I watched a few sabre classes and they looked like fun.

This past Saturday the school had two tournaments, a three-weapon tourney and an individual tourney. My son fenced foil in the three-weapon event and did well, especially considering that it was his first real tournament. His team came in fourth out of fifteen teams.

When it was time for the individual event I overheard the school’s owner talking with the other coaches. They didn’t have enough people for sabre to make it an official event. There were plenty of epee and foil people, but no sabre-types. I thought it over for about ten seconds, walked over, and said, “I’ll do it. Sign me up.”

I’m in pretty good shape – I run five miles per day, lift weights, and have done a lot of martial arts in the past. I’m not saying this to brag, just to point out that I’m not hopeless, condition-wise. They gave me a bunch of forms to fill out (please don’t sue us if you get stabbed) and started tracking down loaner gear for me. Before I knew it I was getting a quick ten-minute lesson from a coach in the back room. My registration went through on the USA Fencing website, and they started the match.

Needless to say I didn’t win, but I didn’t get shut out either. I fenced against five other people and went 5-2, 5-1, 5-1, 5-2, 5-3. I’m quite happy with that. After that was the elimination round; because I had finished last I went against the first place winner. He really looked the part – if a movie had a role for “German Fencing Instructor” they could have used him. I went in swinging, and I think my flailing caught him off guard a bit; I managed to get a few points against him before he figured me out. I lost, 15-8, and I’m still quite proud of the points I got.

Here’s a photo from the first round. I’m wearing (very smelly) loaner gear on the left. The guy on the right beat me 5-2.



I’m going to stick with it. There’s a sabre class (in the “dad league”) at the same time as my son’s foil lessons, and I’ll be at the school anyway, so why not?

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Anyone have any suggestions on buying sabre gear?

CleverHans
Apr 25, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!

Cessna posted:

Anyone have any suggestions on buying sabre gear?

Many, many moons ago my team would pretty much exclusively use Uhlmann or Allstar gear, but that might have just been the salle preference.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Cessna posted:

Anyone have any suggestions on buying sabre gear?

Probably can’t beat Absolute Fencing for entry level stuff

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Welcome to a fun new way to enjoy yourself by whacking people with a stick and risking mild joint pain! Good footwork is far more valuable than fancy sword techniques, so with your fitness and martial arts experience you'll probably be terrifyingly good in no time at all. And good on you for joining in, it sounds like everyone had fun.

Most of my gear is Uhlmann but a lot of my friends buy from PBT. I don't discriminate much between brands but would hesitate to buy any of the basic safety gear that isn't rated to tournament-worthy safety levels of stab-proofing: 800N for gloves and jackets, and 1600N for masks. Rule number one is to always hang everything out to dry and air as soon as you get home! This will be the difference between your kit lasting 6 months or 5+ years.

Expensive blades definitely feel nicer to use than the cheap ones, but they are ultimately consumables so don't obsess over them. The main thing is to avoid anything that doesn't have the S2000 safety rating (or FIE mark for foils/epees)...

I started out as a broke student with a glove and a wire, saved up for a jacket and mask, then finally started buying my own weapons, plastron and lames. If you are fencing on the cheap and can borrow other gear, having your own glove and wire is really nice: you know they'll be clean, working, and the glove affects how the weapon feels quite a bit.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

I ended up going with what the school had in stock, Uhlman for a sabre and Linea for the jacket/lame/trousers/etc.

I'm still having a lot of fun with it.

Cessna fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Oct 8, 2019

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Full kit? Nice! My sabre is also from Uhlmann, they make some really nice stuff.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Crazy Achmed posted:

Full kit? Nice! My sabre is also from Uhlmann, they make some really nice stuff.

Yeah, I went ahead and got what I need, calling it a late birthday present to justify it.

Everything still feels strange and off-balance, but I'm really enjoying the challenge.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

I'm a bad sabreur but there is nothing quite like getting a nice sabre riposte. So incredibly satisfying.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

Anybody have any experience or opinions about Rocky Mountain Swordplay Guild? I’m looking to start taking some historical fencing classes and they look like my closest option. The local SCA group has fighting practice closer to my apartment but I’ve gotten the impression that a HEMA school will give me a better instruction on reconstructed techniques than SCA.

I have a preference towards earlier period weapons like longsword and spear for no reason other than I think they look cooler, so I’m open to whatever is close enough and works with my schedule/budget if there are other schools in the Boulder/Longmont area that focus on other weapons/periods but have better cadre/classmates.

Birudojin
Oct 7, 2010

WHIRR CLANK
I've inherited some swords from my grandfather, which are probably pushing a century in some cases, with split / missing handles, rust, etc. I believe most are foil but there may be some sabre as well.

I don't have any plans to use them but would like to prevent further damage; is there a best oil or the like I could use before putting them on the wall?

We do have a dog and kids but I'm not really worried about them licking sword blades if that matters..

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

I don't know the school but they say they're a branch of Greg Mele's Chicago Swordplay Guild. Mele's been working on Fiore since the beginning of time so he's got a thorough perspective on the book. They probably don't fence nearly as often as the SCA guys do, however, and you’re guaranteed to meet at least half a dozen Sword Dads with medieval turnshoes and walls full of really expensive weapons.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

Sword Dads with expensive weapons sound cool where do I hang out with them

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Medieval re-enactment events and HEMA clubs run by middle-aged upper middle class dudes.

The two aren't entirely the same crowd but there's significant overlap.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Internet Wizard posted:

Anybody have any experience or opinions about Rocky Mountain Swordplay Guild? I’m looking to start taking some historical fencing classes and they look like my closest option. The local SCA group has fighting practice closer to my apartment but I’ve gotten the impression that a HEMA school will give me a better instruction on reconstructed techniques than SCA.

I have a preference towards earlier period weapons like longsword and spear for no reason other than I think they look cooler, so I’m open to whatever is close enough and works with my schedule/budget if there are other schools in the Boulder/Longmont area that focus on other weapons/periods but have better cadre/classmates.

Depends entirely on the interests of your HEMA club vs local SCA chapter.

There's people doing SCA fencing who are deeply interested in learning historical styles just the same as there's people in HEMA who are there for the sport of modern competitive longsword and don't give a gently caress about historic method beyond the basics.

I'd advise going to whichever one strikes your fancy and seeing if you mesh with the people and if they're interested in doing the stuff you're into. I bounced off my local HEMA club for that reason, I'm much more interested in backsword/broadsword, but all they really want to do is early German longsword, which doesn't appeal much to me. Decent enough seeming people, though.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Speaking of sport HEMA, Tyrnhaw's going on and they've got a livestream. Rapier and dagger finals going on at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFnuBK-6CM

Edit: The Youtube stream shat itself so they streamed the finals on Tyrnhaw's facebook page. Not sure if there will be a recording or not. https://www.facebook.com/pg/Tyrnhaw/

Siivola fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Oct 19, 2019

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Birudojin posted:

I've inherited some swords from my grandfather, which are probably pushing a century in some cases, with split / missing handles, rust, etc. I believe most are foil but there may be some sabre as well.

I don't have any plans to use them but would like to prevent further damage; is there a best oil or the like I could use before putting them on the wall?

We do have a dog and kids but I'm not really worried about them licking sword blades if that matters..
I've never tried but probably a bit of fine sandpaper to remove the rust and then some WD-40 or similar? With all of my stuff, rule number one is keep it dry and it seems to keep just fine. If you wanted to spruce any of them up, you could probably buy new handles and bits pretty cheaply.

CleverHans
Apr 25, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!

Birudojin posted:

I've inherited some swords from my grandfather, which are probably pushing a century in some cases, with split / missing handles, rust, etc. I believe most are foil but there may be some sabre as well.

I don't have any plans to use them but would like to prevent further damage; is there a best oil or the like I could use before putting them on the wall?

We do have a dog and kids but I'm not really worried about them licking sword blades if that matters..

Suppose if you wanted to be really serious about it, you could get some Renaissance Wax.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

I ended up with an impressive amount of bloodstains on my pants tonight. Turns out, though, that I'd just nicked my finger on something and not noticed it, then managed to smear it all over myself while adjusting my breeches. Fencing injuries are usually the most wussy and stupid things...

Future Days
Oct 25, 2013

The Taurus didn't offer much for drivers craving the sport sedan experience. That changed with the 1989 debut of the Ford Taurus SHO (for Super High Output), a Q-ship of the finest order that offered up a high-revving Yamaha-designed V-6 engine and a tight sport suspension.
Epee back flicks are kinda dumb and gimmicky, but pretty useful against lefties. As with everything, distance is #1.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Future Days posted:

Epee back flicks are kinda dumb and gimmicky, but pretty useful against lefties. As with everything, distance is #1.

I’m getting welts on my back just thinking about that

Future Days
Oct 25, 2013

The Taurus didn't offer much for drivers craving the sport sedan experience. That changed with the 1989 debut of the Ford Taurus SHO (for Super High Output), a Q-ship of the finest order that offered up a high-revving Yamaha-designed V-6 engine and a tight sport suspension.

dupersaurus posted:

I’m getting welts on my back just thinking about that

He's doing it right, so it doesn't hurt at all lmao. Still, I've been smacked pretty terribly when teaching flicks.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Any recommendations on how to loosen up my shoulders?

*edit* Meaning, are there any exercises/stretches that would help, or is there some way of thinking about it that could help me?

Also, any recommendations on getting our own gear? Is there a good store you would recommend?

spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Oct 31, 2019

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

spacetoaster posted:

Any recommendations on how to loosen up my shoulders?

I'm a boxer and my son, and I, are taking a 5 week beginning fencing course and the instructor is constantly telling me to loosen up my shoulders and I can't seem to get it.

*edit* Meaning, are there any exercises/stretches that would help, or is there some way of thinking about it that could help me?

It's a mental thing to get used to since you're using your arm in a different way. If you're gripping too hard it'll clench your whole arm up, so loosen your hand; most of the work happens in your forearm, so the less you do in your shoulder the better. Practice letting your arms and shoulders go limp and fall at your side; do that as you come on guard, and from there simply bend at the elbow to lift your weapon.

spacetoaster posted:

Also, any recommendations on getting our own gear? Is there a good store you would recommend?

Absolute Fencing Gear is my go-to

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

spacetoaster posted:

Any recommendations on how to loosen up my shoulders?

Yeah, I'm having a hard time with that myself. I KNOW I only have to lightly touch the other person to get a point, but when I try to go fast it ends up in my going hard, like I'm trying to smash an axe through a shield. I want to get to the point where I'm loose and quick, but it's not easy.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Do you have to use a different mask for epee, foil, and saber? I see that they are sold that way, but is it really important to have 3?

Also, is it a usual thing for a city's fencing clubs to prohibit membership into any of the other clubs too?

Cessna posted:

Yeah, I'm having a hard time with that myself. I KNOW I only have to lightly touch the other person to get a point, but when I try to go fast it ends up in my going hard, like I'm trying to smash an axe through a shield. I want to get to the point where I'm loose and quick, but it's not easy.

I mostly get yelled at for my shoulders not being loose when I'm en garde. I can usually "get it" if I can understand what the feeling should be like. I'm just not understanding what my shoulders should be loose like.

spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 31, 2019

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

spacetoaster posted:

Do you have to use a different mask for epee, foil, and saber? I see that they are sold that way, but is it really important to have 3?

Sabre is different as your face is a target area, so the masks are bare metal so they can complete the circuit. My son does foil and that's how I can tell our masks apart at a glance; mine is shiny.

Epee and foil - the mask is the same, but in foil the bib/chin is part of the target area so it needs to be metal and clipped/plugged into the lame. In epee it can be plain cloth.

spacetoaster posted:

Also, is it a usual thing for a city's fencing clubs to prohibit membership into any of the other clubs too?

That seems like a bit of a red flag to me. If you're confident in the quality of your school, sure, let people go to others and they'll find out that your club and coaches are better. Or maybe there's some bad blood there, who knows.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Cessna posted:

Sabre is different as your face is a target area, so the masks are bare metal so they can complete the circuit. My son does foil and that's how I can tell our masks apart at a glance; mine is shiny.

Epee and foil - the mask is the same, but in foil the bib/chin is part of the target area so it needs to be metal and clipped/plugged into the lame. In epee it can be plain cloth.


How is sabre? We're only getting foil and epee training and we're curious if sabre is fun.

Cessna posted:

That seems like a bit of a red flag to me. If you're confident in the quality of your school, sure, let people go to others and they'll find out that your club and coaches are better. Or maybe there's some bad blood there, who knows.

Yeah, that's what I was concerned about. But the school we're getting our beginning lessons from is not in our city (it's in an outlying town). The club in our city does not do beginner stuff (which is why we're going through a training course at another place) so we plan on joining there.

The rule about having a membership applies to all clubs, not just in our city. I was thinking it might be to prevent competitors from showing up to watch their training maybe?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
It's common for clubs to require you to list them as your primary club with USA Fencing to be a member, but I've not heard of bans on visiting. Around here there's a lot of cross-pollination.

spacetoaster posted:

I mostly get yelled at for my shoulders not being loose when I'm en garde. I can usually "get it" if I can understand what the feeling should be like. I'm just not understanding what my shoulders should be loose like.

My bit about letting your shoulders and arms go limp at your side when going en garde was introduced to me for exactly that reason. When fencing obviously your shoulders aren't actually going to be limp, but it helps you learn how to enter the position without overly engaging your shoulder

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

dupersaurus posted:

My bit about letting your shoulders and arms go limp at your side when going en garde was introduced to me for exactly that reason. When fencing obviously your shoulders aren't actually going to be limp, but it helps you learn how to enter the position without overly engaging your shoulder

I'll give it a go.


When you guys go to the club to fence, how long do you typically spend?

When I go to the gym I'll usually do 10-15 minutes of warm up followed by another 30 of drills. Then, if anyone is available, 20 minutes of sparring.

I ask because the club in my city is open for 5 hours in the evenings. Do people just show up during the open time and fence with whoever is there for however long they feel like it?

spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Oct 31, 2019

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

spacetoaster posted:

How is sabre? We're only getting foil and epee training and we're curious if sabre is fun.

I'm absolutely loving it. The school I go to does all three. Keep in mind that (a) these are newb opinions, and (b) they're just opinions.

Sabre seems a LOT faster. Because you can score with any touch at all, not just pokes, it's imperative that you get moving instantly and establish right-of-way. When I watch epee matches they seem to take a really long time, with the opponents sizing each other up tentatively for a while before one of them moves in. In contrast, sabre is like "ready, fence, zap" and if you miss and blow your right of way you jump back fast and hope they blow their attack or you get in a clean counter. Foil seems somewhere in between - it has the right-of-way of sabre, but it's harder to score (you must get in a poke and the target area is smaller).

Here, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKVU7XLFhFY&t=216s

spacetoaster posted:

The rule about having a membership applies to all clubs, not just in our city. I was thinking it might be to prevent competitors from showing up to watch their training maybe?

Dunno. The club/school I'm at is pretty chill and hosts a lot of the tournaments, so people from other schools come in anyway. I don't think we've got any Uber-Secret Ninja techniques that we want to keep secret (unless they haven't taught me them yet ;)) so there's no objection to having people come in to watch classes.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

spacetoaster posted:

When you guys go to the club to fence, how long do you typically spend?

When I go to the gym I'll usually do 10-15 minutes of warm up followed by another 30 of drills. Then, if anyone is available, 20 minutes of sparring.

I ask because the club in my city is open for 5 hours in the evenings. Do people just show up during the open time and fence with whoever is there for however long they feel like it?

Clubs definitely set aside time and space for people to show up and fence on their own. My club has open fencing every day it's open, but it varies by club depending on their space and what classes they do. I'm usually there for two hours or so. Back when I had the time I'd be there 2-3 times a week from 7 until closing I was in much better shape back then

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

spacetoaster posted:

When you guys go to the club to fence, how long do you typically spend?

An hour and a half. First half hour is warmups and calisthenics, second half hour is drills, then half an hour of sparring/matches.

spacetoaster posted:

I ask because the club in my city is open for 5 hours in the evenings. Do people just show up during the open time and fence with whoever is there for however long they feel like it?

Sure. The club/school also does private lessons for 1/2 hour sessions. You get a set number each month. I'll show up, do a private lesson while my son does "open fencing," then drop into "open fencing" while my son does his private lesson.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

Ok, my son and I are enjoying this sport. I think we'd like to look at getting our first set of beginner gear. We are heavily involved in other sports (boxing, BJJ) so fencing will be just something we do on occasion for fun (for the time being at least).

Any recommendations on a decent set? Should I just try and snag used gear? Are the electronic stuff a requirement (we've been training with non-electric stuff)? And do I have to have 3 different masks?

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Can you buy stuff through your school/club? If so I'd recommend that route, as you'll be able to try on stuff first and, as with any sporting equipment, that's important.

I don't know if the electronic stuff is a requirement, but it's really helpful. One of the big things I'm learning is how subtle things are. You don't have to swing your sword around like you're trying to cleave through someone and split them in half; just a flick and a touch is enough to score a point, and this becomes more clear when you're using the electronic stuff. You don't have to try to swing hard and smack the other guy around, just get fast, quick circuit-completing touches.

Like I said earlier, a sabre mask is different; it's shiny bare metal. You can probably find masks that work for both foil and epee by swapping the bib/chin (or just not plugging it into anything when you do epee). But really, try it on first before you buy it.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

spacetoaster posted:

Any recommendations on a decent set? Should I just try and snag used gear? Are the electronic stuff a requirement (we've been training with non-electric stuff)? And do I have to have 3 different masks?

Where are you? The main American options are Absolute and Blue Gauntlet, of which I reccomend Absolute. Y'all should start with your uniform: front-zip jacket, plastron, knickers, glove, and mask.

You should also ask your coach about what you do and don't need. I would say yes on getting electric equipment, but you should wait if your coach plans to have you fence dry for 6 months.

You should only need the equipment for what you intend to fence. You should hold off on lames, specific mask, and sabre glove until you reach that decision. And, no, you shouldn't fence electric with the wrong mask.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Second hand gear can be really good value or utter garbage, check it for damage and try it on before committing. Jackets/plastron/breeches are the same for all 3 weapons (glove too if you use a lame cuff for sabre), so consider starting out by investing in good protective gear that you know isn't traumatically smelly.
Whites should be rated to withstand an impact of 350N or 800N, the latter is considered the minimum for most competitions as it's safer. If you think you might stick with the sport and have the budget, skip the 350N stuff. Treat your gear well and it'll last for years before it even starts getting ratty. I bought the cheapest 800N jacket available to me when I was new; it's comfortable enough and has lasted over a decade now.

Things can get a bit ridiculously priced if you venture into the stuff marketed as premium, but so long as it's got a decent safety rating and fits good, just go with what feels good to wear.

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Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Yeah, I wouldn't buy used gear that I hadn't seen in person and tried on.


Edit: And buying used gear on line sounds like a way to end up with some really stinky stuff.

Cessna fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Nov 6, 2019

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