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I want to hear that whole book. And yeah, I caught the Kavanaugh influence, when he started whining that the whole thing was "a joke". He is very solidly in the Too Real category, making it even more satisfying when Chidi clocked him.
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Nov 2, 2019 17:29
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Props to Chidi for actually throwing that lunch as well. I cheered when it happened, season one Chidi would never! And yeah, my theory stinks, I get where you are all coming from x
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Nov 3, 2019 00:46
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Sloth Life posted:Props to Chidi for actually throwing that lunch as well. I cheered when it happened, season one Chidi would never! I feel like I missed a meal.
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Nov 3, 2019 02:09
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So, this is the way I think this is going to go down. They fail the experiment, but by that time the seeds of change have grown in the bad place. So, everyone keeps getting sent to the bad place, but the bad place has really become the OK place and the demons have taken on the mantel of rehabilitation full time rather than torture.
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Nov 3, 2019 05:35
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good place podcast, brent actor, on his meltdown upon being confronted: "I watched the Kavanaugh hearing a lot" edit: whoops you nerds beat me to it
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Nov 3, 2019 08:05
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I think that while Brent will probably fail the experiment, the accountant will off-handedly mention that the original four have continued to gain points. Everyone seems to think they lost points this time around but Chidi made a decision to throw that punch, Jason helped out Chidi with dancing, Micheal learned how to mentor, etc. The accountant is definitely keeping tabs on the score or the original four also. Also pretty sure Michael got through to Bad Janet. Do we know how many eps are left?
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Nov 3, 2019 16:38
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Michael absolutely had some effect on Bad Janet, and now the two most intelligent and capable Janets are going off-script. Which should be fun. The fact Michael freed her from imprisonment, rather than eternally punishing her seems to have shook her in a big way, going off her final reactions, and seeing what she does next is what I'm looking forward to most at the moment. The previously suggested twist that the 4 humans fail, but Team Cockroach wins anyway because of their effect on Bad Place denizens looks more and more plausible.
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Nov 3, 2019 16:56
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Coatlicue posted:I think that while Brent will probably fail the experiment, the accountant will off-handedly mention that the original four have continued to gain points. Everyone seems to think they lost points this time around but Chidi made a decision to throw that punch, Jason helped out Chidi with dancing, Micheal learned how to mentor, etc. I don't know that Brent will ultimately fail. The point of the original four was that anyone can learn to be a better person with the right education, support, and incentives. Having one of the new guys be unreachable undermines the basis of the whole show.
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Nov 3, 2019 19:14
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I disagree, specifically because the point as you said is that anyone can get better with the right education, support and incentives and the experiment is making it clear that they haven't provided those. Just because he didn't get better in the current circumstances does not mean he can't get better full stop. Brent seems like someone you'd have to make it clear he had made a mistake and that there was no pushing responsibility off on someone else etc. before he would have reason to improve. Which Team Cockroach have not done. We've already seen Chidi improve and get better, Simone was never particularly bad in the first place so far as we know and the other guy seems like he's actually improving under the current system thanks to Tahani; if someone is going to fail and make the flaws with their current setup explicit, then it's Brent.
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Nov 3, 2019 19:48
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Coatlicue posted:Do we know how many eps are left? What I can tell you, is the the names of next three episodes!  11.07 Help is Other People 11.14 The Funeral to End All Funerals 11.21 The Answer Enjoy them, because there looks to be a six-week break between episodes after that. *One of the podcast (I don’t remember which) stated that the show’s contract stipulates short, 13-episode seasons, with an option to add 2 more episodes, IIRC. I may not, in fact, RC, so if anyone knows anything, feel free to pipe up
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Nov 3, 2019 20:28
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It's been mentioned many places that the final season was 14 episodes.
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Nov 3, 2019 20:33
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:I don't know that Brent will ultimately fail. The point of the original four was that anyone can learn to be a better person with the right education, support, and incentives. Having one of the new guys be unreachable undermines the basis of the whole show. I agree, there is no doubt that Brent is a horrible person, but so was Eleanor to a lesser degree. If evil demons can learn to be good then so can Brent, and I think the show would be betraying its own message if it decided that Brent's variety of horrible (right wing egotistical american) was beyond redemption. It would be so great if we get to the last episode and realize that Brent has actually turned into a pretty ok person, who like everyone else is still learning.
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Nov 3, 2019 21:42
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This whole 'remake the experiment' thing still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The original experiment was sticking two deluded people and two people who know they're frauds together and watch them without interfering with the intent that the torture each other, but they accidentally improve each other instead. Everyone in the new system believes they earned their place there, so there's no reason for them to 'fake it till they make it'. I guess Brent is kinda doing it the opposite way, but the other 3 are just kinda sitting there enjoying it. And Jason is there doing his Jason stuff kinda...
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Nov 3, 2019 21:49
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I'd argue Brent is way worse than any of the original 4. I feel like they could have given him a couple redeeming features. Also, do they have to improve all 4 of them? I don't think anyone's argued that no humans belong in the bad place, they're trying to figure out if humans can get better, not that all humans necessarily will improve.
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Nov 3, 2019 21:51
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Brent’s bad in a different way than original Jason and Eleanor who were both super trashy liars and petty criminals, original Tahani was probably at least as entitled and oblivious tho obviously not racist.
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Nov 3, 2019 22:05
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honestly going 'sometimes people aren't redeemable' might be nice, especially when talking about a rich racist rear end in a top hat
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Nov 3, 2019 22:12
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As pettily smug as it might be, I would be disappointed for the show to go "happy endings all round, except for Brent who ended up in the bad place after all". He's an rear end in a top hat, but he's not literally-infinite-torture bad. Shut down the Bad Place, everyone goes to a 'Medium Place' limbo and is guided until they go to the Good Place. Which I realise means eventually Hitler goes to Heaven so the show probably won't go that way.
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Nov 3, 2019 23:48
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Guy A. Person posted:Brent’s bad in a different way than original Jason and Eleanor who were both super trashy liars and petty criminals, original Tahani was probably at least as entitled and oblivious tho obviously not racist. I feel the difference is that Brent is much, much more agile with his awfulness than any of the original 4. Tahani, Eleanor, and Chidi* could basically have a specific flaw get boxed in and isolated, allowing reflection and growth. Brent shifts to different flaws with inhuman speed and manages to constantly deflect one flaw from being isolated. *Jason is imo an outlier and I don't think the show developed him correctly.
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Nov 3, 2019 23:57
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uvar posted:As pettily smug as it might be, I would be disappointed for the show to go "happy endings all round, except for Brent who ended up in the bad place after all". He's an rear end in a top hat, but he's not literally-infinite-torture bad.
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Nov 3, 2019 23:58
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uvar posted:As pettily smug as it might be, I would be disappointed for the show to go "happy endings all round, except for Brent who ended up in the bad place after all". He's an rear end in a top hat, but he's not literally-infinite-torture bad. Dante's Purgatorio has some people waiting hundreds of years before they can even start the purgatory process so Hitler could be kinda solved with his journey taking thousands or millions of years.
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Nov 4, 2019 00:01
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It'd be pretty funny if the accountant stuck in the box was still using the account math where the consequences of each action taken was subtracted from your points, so even though The Soul Squad was doing good, all their lies and manipulations got everyone negative points. Which, honestly may be the idea now that I think on it. The real experiment isn't to see if humans can improve. It's to show how bad the math is.
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Nov 4, 2019 00:37
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Gobbeldygook posted:That's pretty much what Mormons believe about hell (which they call the "telestial kingdom"): it's a place where you're punished for a while but eventually everyone, even Hitler, goes to a Good Place (but not the Best Place, that's for married Mormons only). Most Hindus also believe in a temporary hell where after you're punished proportionate to your sins then you're allowed to go reincarnate again. According to my mormon dad, they very much believe in a hell, and that Hitler gets to stay there until the final judgement. The telestial kingdom is more for righteous non-believers and supposedly nicer than the medium place.
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Nov 4, 2019 00:50
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uvar posted:As pettily smug as it might be, I would be disappointed for the show to go "happy endings all round, except for Brent who ended up in the bad place after all". He's an rear end in a top hat, but he's not literally-infinite-torture bad. Eternity is a LONG time to be tortured for even if you killed 6 million people tbh.
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Nov 4, 2019 00:51
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qirex posted:I'd argue Brent is way worse than any of the original 4. I feel like they could have given him a couple redeeming features. Also, do they have to improve all 4 of them? I don't think anyone's argued that no humans belong in the bad place, they're trying to figure out if humans can get better, not that all humans necessarily will improve. They're arguing that the whole idea of postmortem judgments and punishments is inherently flawed. People who are terrible when they die aren't necessarily terrible forever because in the afterlife they still have the capacity to reason and change themselves. In the living world people are being held accountable for the negative consequences of their actions no matter how removed those consequences are or how ignorant they are of the connections between themselves and the various corners of the world. The Bad Place shouldn't exist, at least not in its present state, because it serves no real purpose even if people were aware of it. Punishment can incentivize good behavior, but never good intentions. Brent is just as much a product of his upbringing as Elanor was. The main difference is in the defense mechanisms they use to shield themselves from the truth about their bad behavior. Elanor's defenses were sarcasm and acting out so people would hate her, and the fake Good Place broke down these defenses by surrounding her with people who liked her and helped her no matter what she did to them. I imagine the best way to break down Brent's defenses would be to force him to live like one of the people he considers inferior until he realizes that their experiences are just as valid and human as his. The reason the current treatment is completely failing to reach him is because in life he was surrounded by people who pretended to like and help him no matter what he did.
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Nov 4, 2019 01:05
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Taear posted:Eternity is a LONG time to be tortured for even if you killed 6 million people tbh. Also those six million went to The Bad Place forever. What a great system!
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Nov 4, 2019 01:07
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flatluigi posted:honestly going 'sometimes people aren't redeemable' might be nice, especially when talking about a rich racist rear end in a top hat This is the kind of twist I didn't realize I even wanted.
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Nov 4, 2019 02:06
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Taear posted:Eternity is a LONG time to be tortured for even if you killed 6 million people tbh. I think that's kinda the point of the show. There's nothing like taking something to its logical conclusion to highlight its absurdity. This show does that for organized religion's concept of an judgement-based afterlife.
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Nov 4, 2019 02:20
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I think that's kinda the point of the show. There's nothing like taking something to its logical conclusion to highlight its absurdity. This show does that for organized religion's concept of an judgement-based afterlife. But the main focus of the show has always been on being ethical, the difficulty of being good in a world where all your decisions have unintended consequences. Just making it about some religions’ conception of the afterlife would kinda detract from that.
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Nov 4, 2019 03:16
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The problem with the idea of the system becoming a Medium Place where everyone learns to be better is that it removes incentive to be good. If you're already dead, and you're not going to suffer (since torture is presumably out), then what's the motivation to do better? If it's 'To Get Into The Good Place', then that doesn't work either because all your actions are then influenced by the desire for reward (to get better treatment). You'd have to repeat the whole 'lying about the afterlife' experiment with every person that dies to motivate them to improve after their death.
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Nov 4, 2019 04:01
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If it takes nothing less than the threat of infinite torture for people to learn to be better then humans really are hopeless and the bad place is right
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Nov 4, 2019 04:17
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Regy Rusty posted:If it takes nothing less than the threat of infinite torture for people to learn to be better then humans really are hopeless and the bad place is right Hey, save this kind of enthusiasm for next Beraimy, you munch.
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Nov 4, 2019 04:28
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Interview with Schuur discussing Brent.
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Nov 4, 2019 09:06
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If Michael really wanted Brent's book, he could have just asked Janet for $60. Maybe he trying not to overtax her given how much strain the neighborhood has put her under already though.
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Nov 4, 2019 09:16
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Zachack posted:*Jason is imo an outlier and I don't think the show developed him correctly. They've avoided addressing the big elephant in the room with Jason, which is a question of moral culpability for someone who's pretty clearly characterised as intellectually disabled. At this point it looks like they're just going to ignore it instead of ever getting to it. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 09:28
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MikeJF posted:They've avoided addressing the big elephant in the room with Jason, which is a question of moral culpability for someone who's pretty clearly characterised as intellectually disabled. At this point it looks like they're just going to ignore it instead of ever getting to it. I guess they're saying he's not ACTUALLY stupid because he does have good ideas. But then they play it as a joke and....I dunno.
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Nov 4, 2019 09:40
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BioEnchanted posted:If Michael really wanted Brent's book, he could have just asked Janet for $60. Maybe he trying not to overtax her given how much strain the neighborhood has put her under already though.
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Nov 4, 2019 11:03
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BioEnchanted posted:If Michael really wanted Brent's book, he could have just asked Janet for $60. Maybe he trying not to overtax her given how much strain the neighborhood has put her under already though. I think that was mostly Bad Janet being 'strained'. Good Janet seems to be perfectly fine ever since coming back.
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Nov 4, 2019 11:18
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Jason is pretty much governed by his impulses. There is no question that he is "not smart" but a lot of it comes from the fact he is off in his own head and doesn't pay attention. When he does try, he's able to put things together ok. He's still kind of unrestrained Id and a wild card though.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:09
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Is it me or is this season, while still good, the weakest of all? In hindsight this show should have ended after the first season. The biggest problem is that it's just no longer funny.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:36
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CarlosTheDwarf posted:In hindsight this show should have ended after the first season. The biggest problem is that it's just no longer funny. Completely false and you have wrong opinions.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:51
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