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H3VR is pretty much a must-buy for PC VR, it must have sold hundreds of thousands of copies by now. I'd say Anton is doing fine
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Nov 5, 2019 18:29
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edit: whee forum fuckups
wolrah fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 18:47
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BMan posted:H3VR is pretty much a must-buy for PC VR, it must have sold hundreds of thousands of copies by now. I'd say Anton is doing fine I think you vastly over estimate the size of the PCVR playerbase/the market penetration of H3VR. Many of the big VR youtubers have never played it. Keep in mind he has never had any marketing support from anyone (Steam/Viveport/Oculus). I wouldn't be surprised if that Oculus Marvel game, or Defector has more copies sold (and no one playing) then H3VR.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:36
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Stick100 posted:I think you vastly over estimate the size of the PCVR playerbase/the market penetration of H3VR. Many of the big VR youtubers have never played it. Anton said they sold 100K, and that was more than a year ago
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Nov 5, 2019 19:43
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Yeah that is easy except in the history of all games on any system no one has done it yet. Sorry but that's hilariously wrong. Payday 2 for one, but there are many others. Weirdly ignorant and arrogant post. Why buy... dude do some quick googling this thread doesn't have time to educate you on the basics of video game economics and business models. But you are talking out your rear end 100%.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:43
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Stick100 posted:I think you vastly over estimate the size of the PCVR playerbase/the market penetration of H3VR. Many of the big VR youtubers have never played it. No, seems like they're right: Steamspy says 200,000-500,000. They aren't nearly as accurate as they used to be but that very wide range should still be in the ballpark.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:45
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"Big YouTubers" is what I have my wife call me when she wants my attention when I'm surfing VR waves
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Nov 5, 2019 19:58
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NRVNQSR posted:No, seems like they're right: Steamspy says 200,000-500,000. They aren't nearly as accurate as they used to be but that very wide range should still be in the ballpark. Yeah after I posted it I looked and saw it's at 4400 reviews. The standard estimation is 20-100 buyer per review with clustering around 50. 50*4400 = 220,000. I'm really happy he is doing well, that's great. 220000*20*.7 = $3 million dollars. Yeah I think keeping it at $20 (or maybe slightly raising the price) and just making more content forever is probably the best call. I now have much more faith in the VR audience. VR will continue to grow, once the Oculus Link comes out there are tons of new potential buyers (Quest only VR users). As a side note that might seem like buckets of money, but lets assume for a second we're wrong and instead of $3 million it's $1.5 million. Lets assume for a second he only get's half of that (costs, minor development partners), then it's $750k to him/4 years fulltime work = $187k/year which probably is less then the total compensation he would get working as a VR developer in LA (where he lives). I think he's doing very well (after all I started with a 75% haircut assumption), but it's sometimes good to throw cold water on big numbers. Of course also by making a title on Steam is it will continue to sell forever without more effort, so he could probably coast and make a ton of money never updating H3VR again (short of doing something to piss of the community). Stick100 fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 20:05
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I'd really be down for some of these H3VR modes to be more polished but come at a reasonable DLC price. For whatever reason I am way more inclined to spend $5-$10 on a VR game that I know I'll only play for a couple hours so I could definitely see myself shelling for that. I know people have a bad taste in their mouth on DLC modes, but something like this where the base game is basically a platform with tons of guns, plinking, and a couple modes and then more engineered, polished modes available as DLC seems like a good fit.
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Nov 5, 2019 21:43
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I'm one of those weirdos that can't get into the idea of H3VR because of the weird hotdog thing. The contrast of ultra realistic gun sperg with silly hotdog enemies just doesn't do it for me  I'd love to see them take that level of gunsperg and I don't know have space aliens or fantasy monsters or something if they don't want to have human enemies. Just not silly hotdogs.
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Nov 5, 2019 22:21
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As I've been using my index more, I strangely find myself missing the oculus touch controllers. What they lack in finger tracking, they do have great tactile feedback. I never have to guess if I failed to grab something because I didn't squeeze the controller hard enough or if my hand wasn't positioned correctly, because it's just a grip button on the touch. The controller tracks fewer fingers and does so to a lesser degree, but because the sensors are in physically separated buttons, when I want to get a certain hand shape, I get it every time, whereas it feels like the index controllers only ever accurately track my thumb and index fingers. Whatever dynamic calibration is in place just can't seem to separate my ring and pinky fingers. Occasionally my middle and ring fingers get stuck together too. Drumming my fingers helps if I do it for a few minutes, but it doesn't give me much hope for a game that will actually use every finger for interacting with it. I also seem to have a weird obstacle with the analog sticks. When I play moss on the touch, I can maneuver quill perfectly, but as I hold the knuckles controllers, I just can't seem to internalize which direction is up. I frequently get the angle wrong and fall into pits or run into enemies. The tracking definitely is noticeably smoother and more accurate (I see no perceivable jitter in the headset), but for stuff like beat Saber, I'm struggling a bit too. The beam comes out at an appropriate angle on both controllers, but the way I hold the index controllers doesn't seem to work well with the game. On the touch controllers, their handle is short enough that I find it pretty natural to hold them in a way where I can consistently get good cuts. On the knuckles, their size seems to force my hand into a more relaxed position, which puts the blade angle wide enough that I'm slicing two notes or hitting mines when I know I wouldn't be on the touch. Trying to hold my wrists a bit more straight does alleviate this, but it takes considerable conscious effort, to a degree that it just isn't happening in faster or harder songs. I expected to see higher scores, but frankly the reduced volume of good and perfect cuts is making that "new high score" screen fairly elusive. The controller size issue is about the opposite of what I expected, since I have larger hands, I had assumed the index controllers would be more comfortable and easier to use than the touch ones, not less. I do like that the built in audio is as good as it is, and the screens to have higher resolution, better fov, and higher contrast as well, but starting in steamvr feels like it takes more friction compared to the oculus software, and even after a weekend of use I don't seem to be adjusting well to the knuckles. Software wise, I'm impressed at how many games just work with the index controllers, even if they were made well before the index or haven't received index specific updates. But I'm also finding that in game prompts are still using vive wand imagery, or assuming you have a huge track pad to work with, which makes certain titles awkward. Older games with the touch controllers will still show you the gen 1 touch controllers, but there's not much actual physical difference between cv1 touch vs rift s/quest touch and the same prompts in game still make sense. Every headset seems to come with a fair amount of compromises, I think I'm just kind of lost at how many even a top dollar headset comes with.
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Nov 5, 2019 22:38
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Sounds like you need to grab the boosters. I have similar issues with the index controllers and as soon as I get this printer rolling I think thats going to be my saving grace. I really really miss my touch controllers.
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Nov 5, 2019 22:47
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mashed_penguin posted:I'm one of those weirdos that can't get into the idea of H3VR because of the weird hotdog thing. The contrast of ultra realistic gun sperg with silly hotdog enemies just doesn't do it for me Try it, play 2 rounds of Take and Hold (I suggest arm swingers) yes most everyone feels the same way (the hot dogs are stupid until you play). You can refund if you don't love it. It's overwhelmingly positive on Steam in Recent and Total Reviews, how many game do that?
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Nov 5, 2019 22:47
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The Big Bad Worf posted:... Try boosters they might fix some of your issues. But yes, "forward" on the index feels about 20% instead of straight ahead. I think that's because naturally you turn your hands in a little bit. I haven't gotten used to it even after a few months. I wonder if there is a advanced setting/controller setting hack I could use to restore the direction.
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Nov 5, 2019 22:51
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I had the exact same issue initially. You can just go into Settings > Controllers and calibrate the "up" direction of the analog sticks there. No hacking necessary 
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Nov 5, 2019 22:59
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The Big Bad Worf posted:As I've been using my index more, I strangely find myself missing the oculus touch controllers. What they lack in finger tracking, they do have great tactile feedback. Agreed. The Index is a much better piece of hardware overall, but I miss the touch controllers, and I weirdly miss Oculus Home being the default as well. I'm hoping the next generation gets haptic gloves of some sort. I thought the knuckles would have some of those hand-tracking functions, but that part just doesn't work well. They ended up being just ergonomically worse Touch controllers.
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Nov 5, 2019 23:41
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If anyone, like me, found BoxVR poo poo because you couldn't hit uppercuts... it may be your tracking. Having adjusted to a new tracking setup, and made sure all my Rift sensors are registering properly by trying different USB 2.0/3.0 combos until it stopped giving me warnings about one of them, it turns out BoxVR works fine if you have tracking actually set up properly. I guess for stuff where your hands are moving seriously fast, you really need things to be working perfectly. Duh.
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Nov 5, 2019 23:42
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Stick100 posted:Try it, play 2 rounds of Take and Hold (I suggest arm swingers) yes most everyone feels the same way (the hot dogs are stupid until you play). You can refund if you don't love it. It's overwhelmingly positive on Steam in Recent and Total Reviews, how many game do that? Maybe one day but I'm finding it real dubious that I will sudenly find them not stupid after seeing them in the magic of VR. Next game In vr I'm planning on playing is Stormland which appears to be 100% hotdog free.
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Nov 5, 2019 23:57
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Zaphod42 posted:Sorry but that's hilariously wrong. Hmm I guess I haven’t played the games that do it or bought the textbook that explains the invisible hand of video games. I know your time is precious and wasted on explanations in light of such a huge ignorant and arrogant mood
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Nov 6, 2019 00:01
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Hmm I guess I haven’t played the games that do it or bought the textbook that explains the invisible hand of video games. Considering how scattered MP in general is (Looking at you survios and your bullshit not crossplay crossplay crap), having a game with scattered DLC isnt really unheard of. Stuff like payday 2 was flat games that learned, most VR stuff isnt by flat studios with tons of game exp. Guess we'll see!
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Nov 6, 2019 00:16
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Hmm I guess I haven’t played the games that do it No I guess not. Which would be fine if you were more self aware and not telling people they're wrong when in fact you are. Jim Silly-Balls posted:or bought the textbook that explains the invisible hand of video games.  dude what is this post even meant to accomplish, what are these words. Why are you doubling down on this, this is crazy.
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Nov 6, 2019 00:17
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The invisible hand is an economic concept and you implied your time was being wasted with my arrogant attitude 
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Nov 6, 2019 00:40
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I know what the invisible hand of the market is, but implying that general gaming business practices are "the invisible hand" is weird at best? But like, what are you trying to accomplish with continuing this? If you don't care why keep it up? If you do care, why not just google it? Or if you are really posting in trying to get me to explain it to you, maybe don't say that stuff about a textbook? IDK it just seems snide, but if you think I'm dumb or don't care what I think, why bother? Payday bundles content together, a level and some guns and some masks. If you had to have all 4 people buy a level DLC to play, nobody would buy them. But making it so only one person needs to buy it to play, means some people will choose to buy them so they can then play co-op with friends on those levels. Their friends can play the levels with them, but miss out on the cosmetics, so still maybe feel jealous and buy the dlc themselves later. Also, they can't play the levels solo, so they can't practice, and if their friend is offline then they would not just have to find some randos to do it with, but randos that own that dlc and want to play it right now. For a simple matter of convenience and getting to play the level whenever you want, you buy it, as long as its priced reasonably. This also creates a "try before you buy" situation, which helps convert people. Maybe you're on the fence, but you play through a level with a friend and you like it and want the cosmetics, so you buy in. There's also the new hotness that everybody from Red Dead to Fortnite to Destiny is doing right now where both free players and paid players enjoy the same seasonal content, but those who buy the dlc get more cosmetics, or more items, or level faster, for having paid for it. Now, all of these things only work in the context of multiplayer, which H3 isn't even anyways (for now??) but its been pretty well established game business practice that selling level dlc doesn't work if everybody has to own it to play. That model just kills your dlc sales.
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Nov 6, 2019 01:00
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SirViver posted:I had the exact same issue initially. You can just go into Settings > Controllers and calibrate the "up" direction of the analog sticks there. No hacking necessary Oh, this is good Is there a universal way to change how grips work? I have tendinitis, and anything that would allow me to grip less firmly and less frequently would be a boon. Something like a universal reduction in the required grip strength would be a good starting point, or if it could be adjusted so a firm grip initiates and you can use a looser grip to maintain it. I think these two adjustments alone might be enough to convince me to learn how to live with everything else.
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Nov 6, 2019 01:10
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Zaphod42 posted:Now, all of these things only work in the context of multiplayer, which H3 isn't even anyways (for now??) but its been pretty well established game business practice that selling level dlc doesn't work if everybody has to own it to play. That model just kills your dlc sales. I feel like people would totally be down to buy fully fleshed out H3 modes for $5-10 USD. I'd pay big money for a fully fleshed out sport shooting scene like an expanded and redesigned MEATS with a nice chill area instead of SPACE WAREHOUUUUSE. Most everyone here knows that game dev needs constant stable income to keep everyone paid. And sales generated by constant updates are not enough to sustain the game they're making. Hell every update you can tell Anton has basically crunched his rear end off for weeks to get it done on time. It's just not a sustainable business model and they need more cash to hire more people. Before Anton burns himself out. Whatever gets Anton & Co in a place where they can streamline development I'm on board for. Right now H3VR comes so close to being the VR GOAT but is constantly kneecapped by Anton having way too much on his plate and having to shift focus every month or so. He needs to delegate more and income is what affords you another high end engineer. I mean, honestly a tightened up "H3VR Lite" on the Quest would be an excellent idea to drive more income. They'd have to rely on more smoke and mirrors game design tactics to keep the simulation charm, but ultimately it's 100% do-able.
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Nov 6, 2019 01:56
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Calipark posted:Most everyone here knows that game dev needs constant stable income to keep everyone paid. And sales generated by constant updates are not enough to sustain the game they're making. Hell every update you can tell Anton has basically crunched his rear end off for weeks to get it done on time. It's just not a sustainable business model and they need more cash to hire more people. Before Anton burns himself out. I wouldn't really worry about this as much as you think, because they seem tend to budget their time fairly well. Whenever there's a big push like Rottweiners or Meat fortress, there's generally a week or two of no patches afterwards (like this coming week). And sometimes just interstitial ones to take a break as they need.
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Nov 6, 2019 03:07
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Calipark posted:I feel like people would totally be down to buy fully fleshed out H3 modes for $5-10 USD. I'd pay big money for a fully fleshed out sport shooting scene like an expanded and redesigned MEATS with a nice chill area instead of SPACE WAREHOUUUUSE. I hope you are!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjByIj87ows Haha, nowhere near H3 quality yet but hey, I made some serious progress today. Now there's some different guns you can pick up and drop and swap around, turn on and off the laser pointers and more. Next thing is manual reloads! That's gonna be fun. I think I have a quick and dirty solution which should work fine for now, and then I can improve the gestures if I find its inaccurate in practice...Calipark posted:Most everyone here knows that game dev needs constant stable income to keep everyone paid. And sales generated by constant updates are not enough to sustain the game they're making. Hell every update you can tell Anton has basically crunched his rear end off for weeks to get it done on time. It's just not a sustainable business model and they need more cash to hire more people. Before Anton burns himself out. Indie game dev itself is barely a sustainable business model from the numbers I've seen from other people trying to make a living off it. Its pretty grim. Its hard to say anything definitive, like I'm not sure I agree that sales from updates can't sustain the game; I mean, look at minecraft. Clearly that actually is possible. Not that you should bank on becoming the next Minecraft, they caught lightning in a bottle. But there's a lot of different people doing different things in different ways... Definitely burnout is a problem and I hope H3 guys do well. I think having their game as one of the top 3 played steam VR games since it came out has got to be a huge confidence booster. But I'm with you that they could probably monetize it more... and I wouldn't even really be offended or anything. But its tricky. You know how gamers are, so willing to flip tables over anything.
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Nov 6, 2019 03:43
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Zaphod42 posted:...I mean, look at minecraft. Clearly that actually is possible. Not that you should bank on becoming the next Minecraft, they caught lightning in a bottle. But there's a lot of different people doing different things in different ways... Did you just compare the sustainability of a niche gun sim game exclusive to high end VR headsets to Minecraft. The most popular, highest grossing, universal cross platform game of all time? What works for Minecraft's profitability will not apply to 95% of any game, let alone an indie game.
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Nov 6, 2019 04:22
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Calipark posted:Did you just compare the sustainability of a niche gun sim game exclusive to high end VR headsets to Minecraft. The most popular, highest grossing, universal cross platform game of all time? What works for Minecraft's profitability will not apply to 95% of any game, let alone an indie game. ...you should probably go ahead and finish reading the thing you quoted
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Nov 6, 2019 04:24
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Looks like the new SteamVR update fixes a bunch of audio issues people have had. Also now reverts the audio I/O devices to what they were before you turned on SteamVR when it's closed by default.
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Nov 6, 2019 05:16
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mashed_penguin posted:Maybe one day but I'm finding it real dubious that I will sudenly find them not stupid after seeing them in the magic of VR. Next game In vr I'm planning on playing is Stormland which appears to be 100% hotdog free. Oh it has nothing to do with them being magic in VR, it has to do with the fact that it doesn't matter. The game is SO good (Take and Hold is my favorite activity in VR and I've tried nearly everything, including most of the $60 games) that you don't care about the hot dogs. Instead of seeing the hot dogs you see the armor they are wearing and the guns they are wielding against you. Honestly, by making them hotdogs, it's much easier to get a read on the enemies than if they were humanoids/robots. What I was trying to say, is I said the exact same thing as you "I wish I could play it but I can't get past the hotdogs" a couple of months ago, then I tried H3VR again and realized it's the VR Greatest of All Time and kicked myself for not trying it earlier. Oh, I've played Stormland/Azguards Wrath/Skyrim/FO4, I think they are neat but prefer H3VR Take and Hold to all of them by a WIDE margin.
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Nov 6, 2019 05:42
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I'm not good enough for take and hold, I just keep making a fool of myself and dropping my clip or double-toggling the safety so every time I come rolling up on the enemy with 3 guns and then I just stand there going "oops, uhhh, oops, gently caress, give me a second, gently caress!" while they kill me.  I can't seem to get a hang of when you grip and when you trigger. In the shooting range taking your time, its fine, but with enemies attacking from all sides... I just keep fumbling. Meanwhile in Payday I'm a god of death that has killed millions.
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Nov 6, 2019 06:06
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm not good enough for take and hold, I just keep making a fool of myself and dropping my clip or double-toggling the safety so every time I come rolling up on the enemy with 3 guns and then I just stand there going "oops, uhhh, oops, gently caress, give me a second, gently caress!" while they kill me. Play with 50000 HP and check your HP at the end of the last Hold, and keep going until you stop fumbling and/or survive with >30k HP. Then you get to murder while not having to restart and fumble through the first few guns every ten minutes.
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Nov 6, 2019 06:19
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm not good enough for take and hold, I just keep making a fool of myself and dropping my clip or double-toggling the safety so every time I come rolling up on the enemy with 3 guns and then I just stand there going "oops, uhhh, oops, gently caress, give me a second, gently caress!" while they kill me. I think everyone's had a moment where they've accidentally lost the magazine or dropped their gun mid-firefight, regardless of skill level  .
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Nov 6, 2019 06:29
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Does H3 have a reach grip? It needs that if not. Picking poo poo up off the floor sucks.
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Nov 6, 2019 06:32
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Zaphod42 posted:Does H3 have a reach grip? It needs that if not. Picking poo poo up off the floor sucks. It does. It's that red laser you can project (I forget the default mapping, as I almost always gently caress with controls). It'll turn color when over an object, at which point you can grab it.
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Nov 6, 2019 06:48
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Zaphod42 posted:I'm not good enough for take and hold, I just keep making a fool of myself and dropping my clip or double-toggling the safety so every time I come rolling up on the enemy with 3 guns and then I just stand there going "oops, uhhh, oops, gently caress, give me a second, gently caress!" while they kill me. Keep playing, that's kind of the whole challenge and why I love it so much.
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Nov 6, 2019 07:17
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Zaphod42 posted:Does H3 have a reach grip? It needs that if not. Picking poo poo up off the floor sucks. Hold down on the touchpad/thumbstick, click the trigger.
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Nov 6, 2019 07:31
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Zaphod42 posted:Does H3 have a reach grip? It needs that if not. Picking poo poo up off the floor sucks. Click in thumbstick and hold on Rift gives you a laserpointer that lets you telegrab things.
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Nov 6, 2019 07:34
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Butt Discussin posted:Agreed. The Index is a much better piece of hardware overall, but I miss the touch controllers, and I weirdly miss Oculus Home being the default as well. It really makes me sad that Touch 1.0 is dead and gone because it overall really was hands down the best VR gaming controller, full stop. Nothing compares, and the Index controller is the only thing that comes close after you get past the QC issues.
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Nov 6, 2019 08:00
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