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If I'm watching 3 hours of people loving around they better be playing some retro game or something.
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Nov 5, 2019 15:31
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Macaluso posted:Believe in your dreams everyone How's it going dude
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Nov 5, 2019 15:33
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Yardbomb posted:If you made the axis non-playable in a historic strategy game, people would just mod it whether for good or bad, compromising your game for fear of dumbshit nazis taking historic nazis as anything but villainous is dumb. Well there is a distinction between the modding community doing something (Free Speech) and a private company doing something (Public Relations). Most game developers simply aren't equipped to tackle those topics in any kind of way that wouldn't be deeply tone deaf, offencive, or blatantly ignorant. So its respectable considering their position that there is simply no winning and thus why they just NOPE out of that entirely. But we see that they don't completely nope; and sometimes being like, "stop talking about politics" just means upholding a negative status quo and as a result we end up with a game with potentially concerning unfortunate implications (Fascism Better). In today's politically charged environment, I'd say making a WWII strategy game *should* try to go out of its way to embark on some kind of dialogue with its players. There's a WWII game where you're a German General on the Eastern front and you gotta juggle directives from Literally Hitler which means doing war crimes or acts that are counter productive from "trying to win the war" (i.e it presents the war crimes as the waste of resources counter productive acts of futile stupidity they are, while also making it clear that they're essential to Nazi ideology); while ignoring them can result in you eventually being sacked/transferred to norway/executed for treason. If you carry out Hitler's orders then when you lose (Because you always lose) you get tried and executed for warcrimes at Nuremburg. Currently I'd say WWII games, but possibly any game with clear real world applications, should make the effort to start that dialogue and engage with your players. Not all games have to do this and not until the end of time; but just that we're in a fairly unique point in time where real good could be done by acting responsibly. Which is why I like to bring up Spec Ops in these conversations as its one of the few games that seemed to make a concerted effort at making a political anti-imperialist / anti-US adventurism statement. Not every game needs to be like Spec ops that other game but a little effort goes a long way.
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Nov 5, 2019 15:43
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I think the paradox format of creating geopolitical simulations out of strategy wargame mechanics just sort of breaks down when applied to the nazis. abstracting a state into a single entity making strategic decisions means that you cant simulate how insane and counterproductive the politics of fascism actually are without just making all the bad poo poo into typical strategy game mechanical choices. You'd need to do something like CK2.
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Nov 5, 2019 16:19
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Hemingway To Go! posted:I had given Jay exci a chance earlier because some of his videos were funny, was annoyed with his steven universe video because it was very disingenuous, and now he's in those comments trying to get Jenny to watch that loving video "it's only two or three hours if you skip the right parts". Yeah, no, that's an unsub from me. What was a little shocking was Exci saying he listen to critique Mauler and company did on his stuff (and that it improved his work, apparently), but between that and going over CinemaSins videos and pointing out the stuff they don't get right (so, a lot) we can at least infer Jay does not value his time highly.
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Nov 5, 2019 16:25
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lol. i liked that movie but if your making an 11 hour video reaction to some other person video saying they didnt care for it. thats stupid and your stupid. watho posted:The thing about hbomb’s and Noah Gervais’ feature length critiques is that the analysis is really good and while they’re long they’re still watchable in a single sitting. Most people trying to replicate them are just awful at making coherent points and talk about things that are barely related for hours on end yeah. they are great as podcasts to listen too.
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Nov 5, 2019 16:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:Well there is a distinction between the modding community doing something (Free Speech) and a private company doing something (Public Relations). Most game developers simply aren't equipped to tackle those topics in any kind of way that wouldn't be deeply tone deaf, offencive, or blatantly ignorant. So its respectable considering their position that there is simply no winning and thus why they just NOPE out of that entirely.
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Nov 5, 2019 17:04
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Dawgstar posted:What was a little shocking was Exci saying he listen to critique Mauler and company did on his stuff (and that it improved his work, apparently), but between that and going over CinemaSins videos and pointing out the stuff they don't get right (so, a lot) we can at least infer Jay does not value his time highly. At absolute best he does not have any understanding of intentional emotional tones and is basically the movie criticism version of a "policy wonk", enjoys movie/tv criticism for it's own sake. Which is still loving weird as hell and not someone I'm going to give any more time to. I don't want to know if he has a worse game than that.
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Nov 5, 2019 17:18
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Farm Frenzy posted:I think the paradox format of creating geopolitical simulations out of strategy wargame mechanics just sort of breaks down when applied to the nazis. abstracting a state into a single entity making strategic decisions means that you cant simulate how insane and counterproductive the politics of fascism actually are without just making all the bad poo poo into typical strategy game mechanical choices. You'd need to do something like CK2. You could, it just takes effort, and might require shifting some control out of the player. Using Hoi4 as an example, we basically bring that other WWII game where you're a general and just extrapolate it to you being the anthropomorphic representation of the German state bureaucracy and officer corps and that Hitler is Hitler but not you. Basically, what if the focus trees were controlled by a scripted AI, that will do things, unreasonable things, on a timetable you aren't prepared to implement or execute. Even the most fashy of players will buckle under the barrage of metaphorical abuse they are trying to implement while still trying to win. But if he tries to follow it to the letter out of fashy loyalty he is more likely to drive his country into the ground. Then you just extrapolate this to other countries and systems and I think you end up with a more nuanced and profound game while still more or less giving you similar levels of agency. Sorta like taking the Hoi4 foci's with the annoying railroadyness of EU4 multiplayer victory cards. Sarcopenia posted:For the love of god Montresor The Cask of Amontillado? Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 17:22
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Mauler is the platonic ideal of "objective criticism". Which is to say he sucks
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Nov 5, 2019 17:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:You could, it just takes effort, and might require shifting some control out of the player. Most of this just sounds like a lovely game though. Is the plan to just make bad games, trick fash into playing them and hope they torture their brains to death? This basically hits the christian rock philosophy of good politics over good product and that's almost always a way to profit off of true believers rather than change minds.
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Nov 5, 2019 18:22
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Yeah nobody’s going to play a game like that unless it’s a little £10 indie thing you can finish in an afternoon. And even then it’d be mostly ignored save for a few gushing Polygon articles before it’s completely forgotten five minutes later.
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Nov 5, 2019 18:27
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So with all this talk about Mauler and insufferable twats who think themselves really smart... who's ready for Renegade Cut's video on Rick&Morty?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-8ICfWsUVw (Rick is the twat, not Leon)
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Nov 5, 2019 18:28
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I saw this video posted earlier... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaJDc85h3ME ...and I'm kinda shocked by this video from Knowing Better. I never came across it (or maybe I wasn't paying attention), but it's so unlike his other videos. Is there any story to it or is it just one video we can ignore?
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Nov 5, 2019 18:32
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Pachylad posted:So with all this talk about Mauler and insufferable twats who think themselves really smart... who's ready for Renegade Cut's video on Rick&Morty?: https://twitter.com/renegadecut/status/1191759554436108288?s=19
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Nov 5, 2019 18:33
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SpecOps the Line! SpecOps the Line! Have you heard about this game called SpecOps the Line! The game makes you feel bad about shooting bullets out the end of your gun! It makes you feel bad! SpecOps the Line! SpecOps the *gets dunked repeatedly in a toilet till I drown*
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Nov 5, 2019 18:35
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NovemberMike posted:Most of this just sounds like a lovely game though. Is the plan to just make bad games, trick fash into playing them and hope they torture their brains to death? This basically hits the christian rock philosophy of good politics over good product and that's almost always a way to profit off of true believers rather than change minds. I mean this seems like a lack of imagination. It's like saying no one would play a game where you just die over and over without the ability to change difficulty modes. You're positing that it isn't fun if the player has to deal with any kind of challenge whatsoever. Roguelikes for instance are famous for permadeath, something which actually existed in a AAA mmorpg back in the day. What I described isn't remotely as difficult or unfun as a majority of games made over the years. As long as the gameplay presents a compelling and engaging experience, "fun" by some narrowly defined metric isn't a requirement for success. Regardless it also misses the point, that five seconds of thinking off the top of my head I can come up with a pretty decent idea with minimal effort to address the previously brought up criticism of historical games with problematic factions. Professional designers with time and resources could think of a better idea if they put in the effort and had the motivation. It is not an unsolvable problem.
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Nov 5, 2019 18:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:I mean this seems like a lack of imagination. but enough about your posting,
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Nov 5, 2019 18:51
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Disco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMiY2f0DRSg
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Nov 5, 2019 18:54
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watho posted:Yes I’m still upset over
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Nov 5, 2019 19:01
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Bonaventure posted:but enough about your posting, Okay boomer.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:06
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Jesus christ a mauler response to a Jenny video is some cursed content. Sad to see Jay Exci is that whole orbit, glad I never bothered with his shaun response vid.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:14
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It feels like a bizarre product of modern society that not do people exist who have 11 hours straigh of free time to watch some real low effort content, like not original content but movie review reviews, but they exist in enough numbers to make a career out of catering to them
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Nov 5, 2019 19:22
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True but I don’t have as strong of a connection with silent hill as I do with twin peaks so I’ve never actually watched their videos before, just seen them mentioned by bob and voidburger in their grate debate vids and such. I didn’t make the connection until after watching it of who it was
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Nov 5, 2019 19:29
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I feel like the point of 11 hour response videos is just deliberate padding to serve as a disingenuous resource of debate. As long as there exists a video that is unwatchable, then they can always claim any argument they want out of it in response to criticism.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If I'm watching 3 hours of people loving around they better Also I dig the galaxy brain logic of "they watched your (33 minute) video, so you can watch their (11 hour, but more specifically just 5 hours worth) video". Also them not understanding how no one wants to watch a god drat 11 hour video and assume the entire video is about Jenny cause the only thing on the thumbnail is her picture, and the title has her name on it.
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Nov 5, 2019 19:54
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Do also note the stupid "long man bad" responses, just a casual rebranding of "orange man bad" that insufferable net-nazis use to try and play bad faith reduction of criticisms toward daddy with.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:17
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Its straight up disrespectful to peoples time
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Nov 5, 2019 20:17
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Nov 5, 2019 20:22
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Leal posted:Also I dig the galaxy brain logic of "they watched your (33 minute) video, so you can watch their (11 hour, but more specifically just 5 hours worth) video". Also them not understanding how no one wants to watch a god drat 11 hour video and assume the entire video is about Jenny cause the only thing on the thumbnail is her picture, and the title has her name on it. They operate on the assumption that to completely dismantle an argument, you need to pick it apart line by line and anyone that won't do the same back to them is a lazy intellectual coward and therefore wrong. It's basically the same recursive logic loop that Jordan Peterson fanboys always fall back on, you need to engange with All Of The Text to probably rebut it, and even if you think you have but still diagree then there is still some text you're missing. The only people invested enough to consume All Of It are there because they're seeking validation. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 5, 2019 |
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Nov 5, 2019 20:25
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What's the name of the thing where a douche knowingly tries to derail pointed comebacks and coherent responses by farting out too much divergent trash nonsense at once to realistically address, it's that thing.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:28
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Gish Gallop
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Nov 5, 2019 20:29
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LackingSaint did that video on him a while ago together with Patricia Taxxon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjCEaE5kvb4 It's the fetishizing of "objectivity" taken to it's logical extreme, where every argument is only underpinned by it being preceded by technically correct statements and the more you do this the more correct and objective you supposedly are.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:30
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The rule of anime twitter avatars strikes again.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:The rule of anime twitter avatars strikes again. It's amazing really. Even when they agree with you it takes 2 heartbeats and they're all "also age of consent laws"
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Nov 5, 2019 20:36
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Yeah they tend to go over things chronologically pausing every few seconds to “refute” something without ever really considering the sentences as part of a whole. This is a completely bonkers way of interacting with anything and if you don’t do it that way they will throw it out as taking things out of context or whatever. So basically if you respond to them with something shorter you’ve lost according to this logic. I watched some of the video on the cult leader streamer dude and he said that since people edit his podcasts you can never truly know if something was said before or after that changes the meaning and therefore you couldn’t hold him accountable for anything he said. Everything is always out of loving context.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:37
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Raenir Salazar posted:The rule of anime twitter avatars strikes again. He also retweets Gab tweets 
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Nov 5, 2019 20:41
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It's one where I'd love to know the breakdown between actual idiots and disingenuous jackasses among his defenders. None of them can actually list one of these supposed good points when pressed, it's just a borderline cultist "watch the video" response. No timestamps or memorable moments, just a vague recollection that they said good things about that mean girl. Out of curiosity I jumped into Jenny's subreddit and found a similar person who was posting in the thread for her Joker video. It's downvoted to oblivion, but it was interesting because he didn't have any real criticism. He just kept posting a shitload of words saying that Jenny didn't get the movie or discuss its themes, but he couldn't actually name a single theme she missed when a fan started dunking on him. Someone over in D&D's right-wing media thread said that he started responding to a bunch of alt-righters and Peterson fans by just linking them to huge irrelevant science and philosophy PDFs or articles that he said refuted their arguments. Surprise surprise, they didn't even bother to skim the link but still hastily shifted to other arguments anyway because they knew that theirs were bad faith trash anyway.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:45
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Pachylad posted:So with all this talk about Mauler and insufferable twats who think themselves really smart... who's ready for Renegade Cut's video on Rick&Morty?: If Rick and Morty is funny, and I'm sure it can be, I honestly can't imagine subjecting myself to the rest of it to get there.
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Nov 5, 2019 20:49
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Haven't heard of Jenny Nicholson til now but she brought up some good points I didn't realize til now, such as the whole thing with the social worker/therapist lady and the idea of a "clown rental agency".
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Nov 5, 2019 20:52
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