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Dawgstar posted:What's funny is Kingsley was in BloodRayne. In real-life, he'd have taken the part in Cleaver. Doesn't he ultimately pass because he felt intimidated?
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Nov 4, 2019 14:21
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It also gave us the scene where they're all discussing horror movies, and Vito is confused that the protagonist is a ghost, and Silvio gets pissed when JT insists Michael Myers is supernatural. Also, the Sopranos ended with a cut to black. It's loving weird seeing so many people call it a "fade to black" for the last twelve years.
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Nov 4, 2019 15:40
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Catching up with the last few write-ups after being busy with Halloween season. To be honest, in previous runthroughs of the series I don't think I ever really followed the whole Johnny Sack vs. Little Carmine conflict very well. I think because in general the New York/New Jersey dynamic always confused me and I was never quite certain exactly what Johnny Sack's role was and who Carmine/Little Carmine were. Obviously I knew they were mob guys but the structure of the organization always confused me. Anyway, I'm seeing it all in much clearer detail now that I'm reading Jerusalem's write-ups and it's a very rewarding experience.
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Nov 4, 2019 17:58
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It's fine if Jerusalem's next writeup takes a little longer to account for the single weirdest event in the entire series: the Star Wars-esque wipe after Carmela tells Wegler she's reconciling with Tony. This was apparently an editing mistake but has received a lot of attention for how strange it is when watching the episode. It's still strange, but makes more sense knowing it was a mistake. My only question is, how does a mistake like that get made?
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Nov 4, 2019 19:57
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I can only assume they did some rough edit meaning to come back to find a smoother transition and just.... never did. It's bizarre, even watching the episode again and being prepared for it, it remains incredibly jarring. I can kinda see the slow-mo sorta maybe a little bit possibly working, but the wipe is just loving inexcusably terrible.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:20
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It's particularly jarring because it lasts longer than you remember. And it's not just a wipe. First there's a stuttering slowdown of the framerate, then a complete freeze, then the wipe.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:28
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I never knew that was a mistake tbh. I always though it was to emphasize the moment where she realized she was getting back together with Tony.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:30
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Basebf555 posted:To be honest, in previous runthroughs of the series I don't think I ever really followed the whole Johnny Sack vs. Little Carmine conflict very well. I think because in general the New York/New Jersey dynamic always confused me and I was never quite certain exactly what Johnny Sack's role was and who Carmine/Little Carmine were. Obviously I knew they were mob guys but the structure of the organization always confused me. Anyway, I'm seeing it all in much clearer detail now that I'm reading Jerusalem's write-ups and it's a very rewarding experience. Interestingly Tony's family's relationship with New York is all based on real-life mob stuff re: having a family that takes care of Five Family business in New Jersey called the DeCavalcante family. In a funny look at real-life Mob nicknames, they were led for ages by a guy everybody called 'Sam the Plumber' DeCavalcante because his straight job was owning a plumbing supply store.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:31
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Matt Zerella posted:I never knew that was a mistake tbh. I always though it was to emphasize the moment where she realized she was getting back together with Tony. Should have added a needle scratch too.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:35
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As an online editor, half of my job is emailing clients to make sure any weird wipes or transitions are intentional or not. If that got past their editor, then it should’ve been caught in the online review where usually the dp or director sit in to ensure the cut is 100% but even then, sometimes things slip through the cracks. I always thought it was intentional too but I forgot about the wipe, I only remembered the slow motion as Carmela’s leaving.
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Nov 4, 2019 22:40
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Seriously, every time I see a wipe in something I immediately hear a John Williams score and expect to see C3PO wandering about a desert.
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Nov 4, 2019 23:32
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Here's the scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=results God dammit I got a really cool post swallowed up by a disconnect but the long and the short of it was that, like most things, I thought it was intentional when I saw it. I thought it was Carm being paralyzed and slowly returning to her old life and that she was erasing her affair. I thought the "wipe" to the 3 hitmen was suggesting Wegler would be wiped out by any one of these guys once Tony learned about the infidelity. I thought Chase did it intentionally to make us focus on that moment. Even if it's a genuine gently caress up and out of place, it's still a testament to the show's direction that it still makes us wonder wtf it meant. I choose to believe it was done entirely on purpose  I've been monkeying around and perusing a quite ancient Sopranos message board and it's really funny to read people's predictions, reviews, the things they notice that they think have meaning. Very amusing to read it in contrast to this board where we all know what happens.
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Nov 5, 2019 00:12
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That's just overthinking an obvious mistake. Even if it had been intentional it was a schlocky ham-handed way at conveying something which is just as out of place in the show.
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Nov 5, 2019 00:14
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Solice Kirsk posted:That's just overthinking an obvious mistake. my friend, you must be new to the internet
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Nov 5, 2019 08:29
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Goddamn if you ever needed to cite one episode to show that Tony is an irredeemable piece of poo poo it might be Cold Cuts.
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Nov 7, 2019 04:09
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Sacre bleu! Where is me mama! 
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Nov 7, 2019 04:18
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Basebf555 posted:Goddamn if you ever needed to cite one episode to show that Tony is an irredeemable piece of poo poo it might be Cold Cuts. In the middle of writing it up at the moment and yeah goddamn his happy little strut down the sunny suburban streets to close the show is just loving infuriating.
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Nov 7, 2019 04:44
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Jerusalem posted:In the middle of writing it up at the moment and yeah goddamn his happy little strut down the sunny suburban streets to close the show is just loving infuriating. He can't handle anyone improving their lives at all.
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Nov 7, 2019 11:17
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it's the absolute peak tony moment, it rules
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Nov 7, 2019 11:42
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Jerusalem posted:In the middle of writing it up at the moment and yeah goddamn his happy little strut down the sunny suburban streets to close the show is just loving infuriating. and yet i still hate him less than i do janice there's something about the way that she emotionally tortures bobby's children into needing her that just hits me on a really deep level
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Nov 7, 2019 12:23
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Season 5, Episode 10 - Cold CutsDr. Jennifer Melfi posted:Depression is rage turned inward. A couple of mobsters wait at Port Newark late at night for a shipment of Vespas to arrive. They're nowhere to be seen, so they put in a call to Carlo Gervasi who tells them to keep waiting. The next day outside the Averna Social Club where Carmine Lupertazzi once ruled and Johnny Sack has made his central base of operations, Tony complains angrily to Johnny for his Captain's men sitting around all night for nothing. Johnny is unapologetic, claiming coldly that the Vespas never got to his guy to do the handover to Carlo's. He blames the heightened security due to concerns over Al-Qaeda, an excuse that Tony clearly doesn't believe. Billy Leotardo finishes washing Johnny's Maserati and that seems to be Johnny's cue to leave. He hops in, revving the engine as Tony follows him to the car to ask why nobody reached out to tell Carlo if the handover wasn't happening. Bitterly, Johnny agrees that a lot of things never happened that seemed like they happened, like for example Tony Blundetto not murdering Joey Peeps. With that he drives away, leaving a fuming Tony behind. He thought he'd settled this at the funeral, but now Johnny is affecting his ability to make money and he's not happy. Janice Soprano attends a soccer game for her stepdaughter Sophia. Like all the other parents on the sidelines she's eager to cheer for her kid to the point of distraction, getting upset when another soccer-mom throws out some disparaging comments towards Sophia's team. When her daughter fouls Sophia, Janice is furious and gets in the other woman's face, the two shoving each other as they get more heated, descending into an outright brawl which the larger Janice easily dominates until she's hauled off by the horrified onlookers. Tony arrives in the back room of the Bada Bing, clearly agitated and quick to explain why to Carlo, who was playing cards with Paulie and Silvio. With bitter sarcasm he offers them Johnny's clearly bullshit excuse about his longshoremen not being able to get their hands on the scooters, upsetting Carlo who reminds him he relies on the port for half his income. Silvio asks if Tony thinks Johnny is lying and Tony admits that he isn't entirely sure what to think, but dislikes how cute Johnny's comments have been. Paulie and Silvio bring up Johnny's behavior at Joey's funeral, with Silvio sniffing around looking for an explanation of what exactly the two of them discussed when they were alone in the back of the car. It seems Tony hasn't told them about the allegation Blundetto was seen near where Joey was murdered. His phone rings and he asks them for privacy, but not before taking action by instructing Benny Fazio to get together with one of Carlo's guys and start sniffing around the port to see if he can find out what is going on. It's Carmela on the other end, and Tony assumes she's calling to remind him about paying the property taxes on the home (which is in her name, remember). It's even more unpleasant than paying taxes though, as she informs him that Janice was arrested. Shocked, he returns home and watches in horror as a news story airs with guffawing news anchors cracking mob jokes as they show handicam footage of Janice assaulting the other soccer mom, then trying to flee the police and getting tackled. Janice is reported as having ties to the Mafia, and Tony's own name is mentioned as the reputed mob boss of New Jersey. Tony, already in a bad mood thanks to his meeting with Johnny, is enraged as a smooth-talking psychologist appears to discuss how rage is becoming an increasing problem in today's society, storming out of the house to head down the road to Bobby's.   Hammering on the door when he finds it locked, he's let in by Bobby and is immediately roaring at Janice, following her as she circles around the table and takes refuge at Bobby's side. He's understandably furious about his name being mentioned in the news due to her bullshit, and just gets angrier when she starts to claim she's going to sue the city. "NO YOU'RE NOT!" he bellows, absolutely fed up and not letting her turn this into another one of her crusades, ordering her to call Neil Mink and have him plead it down and then just quietly pay the fine. Bobby simply stands as all this unfolds, watching as his wife circles to keep the dinner table between herself and her brother, trapped between wanting to defend her and the fact Tony is the "Boss". He's confused when Tony suddenly turns darkly sarcastic, agreeing with Janice that the soccer-mom was luckily Janice didn't kill her. Sensing there is something he's unaware of here (Richie Aprile), he asks for clarification but gets only awkward silence. Tony makes to leave but returns when Janice, sensing he's going, tries to get the last word in and restore some measure of control by demanding he get out. Quietly, dangerously, he informs them both that this IS the end of the situation. He leaves again and Janice, sure he's really going this time, shouts,"GET OUT!" at him again. Bobby follows Tony though, now that the immediate rage is gone he wants to stand up for his wife. He understands Tony's concerns but he's actually touched that Janice actually referred to Sophia as her daughter. Tony dismisses that with contempt, but then thinking better about openly insulting his brother-in-law like this admits that yes this is something. But it doesn't excuse the mess she made, and not for the first time Tony - who is currently separated from Carmela - instructs Bobby to "get control of his wife". Upstairs, Janice tries to have a heart-to-heart with Sophia who tries to pretend she was asleep, really not wanting to engage with this mad woman who has infiltrated their life and now humiliated her at soccer practice. She complains that she never wants to have to face her friends again, and Janice tries to make light of it by saying once she is a parent she'll understand that a mother will defend her children like a lion would it's cubs. But when Sophia grunts that Janice is NOT her parent it devastates her, her face falling flat and her voice going cold as she reminds Sophia that she is here and is trying very hard. She orders Sophia to go to sleep, and Sophia hits her with another body-blow by asking sarcastically if she's going to punch her too. Bobby has arrived in the doorway and quietly asks Janice to come outside for a word, and for Sophia to go to sleep. Once in their bedroom, he makes things about as clear as he possibly can: this can't continue. He refuses to let her fob this off for discussion to tomorrow, ignores her timid attempts to elicit sympathy or to gain a moral advantage by poking him to lose his temper by talking about his weight etc. He's on a mission here and works with a singular focus of vision she's not used to from the men in her life. He rejects the idea of her therapist Sandy doing anything to help her (all she does is ask Janice to read her screenplays!) and explains she needs proper anger management therapy. If she doesn't? Well he won't have this level of rage in the house. It's as simple as that, his first priority remains his children, and while he loves her if she's going to have a detrimental effect on their lives he will remove her from it. Perhaps because this ultimatum is delivered so different to all the other men in her life, it hits Janice harder. Because Bobby doesn't yell or scream or threaten. He's calm, he's reasonable, he's loving... but he's firm. This is it, this is her only choice.   At the illegal casino above the hardware store, Christopher and Paulie share a friendly nod to Tony B overseeing the place, then turn back to the bar and talk poo poo about him. They figure he's clearing between $2500-$5000 a night running the place, an enviable figure to be sure even on the conservative end, and one that Christopher feels should have been his. Paulie is delighted, happy to see Christopher no longer the "teacher's pet" of Tony Soprano, and laughs that he hopes now Christopher understands how HE felt when Christopher was the one getting all the attention and plum gigs. There's no malice in Paulie's mockery though, he burned that out of him after he and Christopher killed the waiter who dared complain about a lovely tip, he's now accepted Christopher fully as a fellow Made Guy/Captain. Christopher's bad mood continues though at a later date when he and Adriana are for once enjoying themselves as they shop for wedding cakes, only for Tony to pull up outside the shop and lay on the horn to get his attention. He tries to ignore him but can't, and heads out to see what he wants, not even sure how Tony was able to find him. Tony B is in the front seat too, but Christopher tries to ignore him even when he says hello. Tony, talking carefully because he just had his car serviced and is paranoid about listening devices, explains that "their friend with the orchard" is retiring to Florida, and Christopher needs to go up there to pick up the "canned peaches" he left behind. Christopher isn't happy but agrees it has to be done, but rejects Tony B's offer to come help. Blundetto insists, he wants to check on the "old guy", and Tony further explains his father ALSO left some "cans" up there that need to go too. Since the old man's daughter Louise now lives him, she is going to be around so they'll only be able to move them at night, and they only have two weeks till the developers show up with bulldozers. Christopher agrees, but as he leaves Tony B offers that he hopes Christopher has better luck with his wedding than he did with his own. Unable to resist getting in a dig, Christopher says as far as he can tell Blundetto's had great luck so shouldn't be cursing it out. Assuring an irritated Tony he isn't trying to start something, he tells Blundetto to call him and heads back into the cake shop. That night as they prepare for bed, Adriana asks for more details from an agitated Christopher. Obviously he's not going to explain about that the "canned peaches" are dead bodies, but he tells her everything else. "Our friend with the orchard" is their Uncle Pat, an old "knock-around guy" from Johnny Boy Soprano's generation who was allowed to retire to a farm upstate after he suffered a horrible case of the hiccups for a year (he warns her not to laugh about this, Pat almost committed suicide because of it). He eventually got over it but stayed retired, and young boys in the Family would be sent up for summers when they hit 12 or 13 so Pat could help school them. The relationship with Pat is clearly a treasured memory for Christopher, but he explains how the bad side came when the older boys would also come up to stay. He worshipped the ground 19-year-old Tony Soprano walked on, but when Tony Blundetto would show up both Tonys would constantly break Christopher's balls, bully him or play pranks including one time tying him to a tree and leaving him there till 3 in the morning. Adriana has taken this all in with a few pleasant nothings added in, but as she listens to her fiance complaining bitterly about Tony Blundetto getting a 200k a year cash-cow in the casino, she starts taking things more seriously. Stiffening her resolve, she admits to Christopher what she is going to say again might anger him... but if he's so unhappy, maybe he should reconsider her earlier suggestion that they give up on the life and move out to California? She still thinks she can escape the FBI trap she's in and have a happy ending, and for her that means having Christopher with her. He could get back into screenwriting, or maybe become a male model(!). He agrees that he does intend to get back into writing again at some point, but only from a position of great wealth. As for male modeling? Well he has no doubt he'd be a great success(!!) but he wouldn't want to be around people like that (I imagine he has a similar mindset to Jackie Jr who wanted to be "Hugo Boss but without the faggy parts"). Despite his open complaints and bitching from only a minute earlier, he gently but firmly makes her look him directly in the eye and reminds her that he is a soldier, and she needs to learn to accept that.   The next day Tony saunters through the backyard of Carmela's house in his swimming trunks, smoking a cigar and looking forward to enjoying the pool... only to find it empty. Enraged, he demands to know from Carmela who is cleaning up the yard where the water is, and she calmly lies that she drained it due to the fact it was eating up so much electricity and she can't afford it, especially as he is the only one who uses it. What she really means is that she detested him coming over whenever he felt like and making himself at home. He looms over her, breathing heavily, but she's about the only person in the world who can see this kind of display of aggression from him and roll her eyes at the sheer ridiculousness of it. Finally managing to spit out some words, he complains that he thought they were getting on better lately (presumably stuff happened between the restaurant confrontation last episode and this one). She betrays her true intentions and outright tells him she knows he polluted all the decent lawyers in New Jersey so they couldn't represent her, complaining he wasn't playing fair. Tony bellows that he didn't want a divorce in the first place and she sneers back at him that she's too worn out to pretend like he wasn't asking for it in a million different ways. She walks away, disinterested in any further discussion, leaving him livid with impotent rage. Back inside the house, she hides her own anger (and probably a healthy dose of fear) by keeping herself busy cleaning up at the counter as he storms back inside and gets dressed in the clothes he had once again just dumped haphazardly on her floor. He's still furious, but she continues to ignore him, and he forces himself to press down his rage, swallowing his anger to bring up an actual important issue they do need to discuss: Meadow's engagement. They both agree they like Finn, and Carmela agrees that provided they can both be civil to each other they should throw Meadow and Finn an engagement party. Still in constant motion to keep from having to address him directly, she sighs that Meadow is so young to be getting married, not helped by Tony reminding her it is the same age they got married themselves. She tries to move a basket of clothes from the bench and he grabs it, forcing her to have to look him directly in the eye, and sadly he reminds her their marriage wasn't ALL bad. Not able to hide away through busywork, she just glares at him and her own rage is apparent. It's not as showy as Tony's (and Janice's!) public displays of fury, but her disgust with him can't be denied. She pulls the basket away and strides away with it, leaving Tony dejected as yet again he's forced to face the consequences of his actions. Janice attends an Anger Management class, where the instructor is attempting to go through some of the triggers that cause people to get angry. He asks for examples from the group and several people - including Janice - eagerly put their hands up. But he asks a quiet, nervous looking man called Bradley to speak up instead, and timidly he expresses how his partner keeps blocking his car and getting angry at him for waking him up to move it when he can't find the keys. The instructor asks him to describe what he feels when this happens, but Janice runs all over him to share a story about her kids constantly leaving their bikes in the driveway. An older man suddenly has an outburst demanding Doris keep the bikes out of driveway, confusing everybody till he happily explains he is referencing a commercial from the 1960s for Bufferin. Basically it seems like the instructor is losing control of the class, but he's clearly dealt with people like this a lot. So he doesn't lose his temper, he doesn't blow up, he just smoothly transitions into making people face up to the fact that THEY are the cause of losing their temper. When Janice and a black woman called Evelyn in the group get into a heated argument after Janice's initial lauding of the Civil Rights movement turns into a bitter indictment of modern black youth culture, the instructor makes a point of noting Janice's physical manifestations of rage. She doesn't like being singled out, but Evelyn makes the connection he is aiming for and calls it out to Janice. Quasi-apologizing for hijacking the class, she reminds Janice that they're here for help because THEY are the problem, and while it doesn't forgive those who do them wrong, they have the power to control how they choose to react to that. In other words, they're not victims, they're perpetrators, and the idea that SHE is the one in the wrong seems to have never occurred to Janice before.  Tony B and Christopher drive across the Hudson Valley, the latter making every effort to ignore the former's attempts to make conversation. He only speaks to complain about Blundetto putting his feet up on the dash, pointing out his SUV is worth 50k (and he's complaining about Blundetto making too much money!) and he doesn't want it scuffed up. Tony B keeps trying though, talking wistfully about being 12/13 and getting to run around Uncle Pat's farm. Christopher doesn't even want to meet him halfway there despite his earlier fond recollections to Adriana. Instead he complains about how HE was forced to clear the brush by the fence with a scythe, but Blundetto assures him that was something every body who stayed up there had to do. Despite himself, Christopher finds himself engaging, noting that once Louise came to live with her father it was never quite the same. Before it was just you, Uncle Pat, and his great stories. Louise was fine, but she was an obstacle between the kids and Pat being free to talk. Continuing to drive in silence, Tony B's thoughts of childhood have unearthed an old memory in conjunction with the Hudson Valley reminding him of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Dull-eyed and dangerous, he grunts that "they" used to call him Ichabod Crane, and when Christopher asks who "they" were, Blundetto assures him they were some very sorry people. Nothing more is said, but it again a reminder that before he went away, Blundetto was a rising star in the mob not as an earner or a soldier, but an enforcer. This was, and yes still is, a dangerous man. Tony attends therapy, where Melfi is keen to hear what developments have occurred between him and Carmela since the night they slept together. Openly lying to his therapist YET AGAIN, Tony calmly explains that it was a one time deal and HE has moved on. He also claims not to have really thought about his admission of his feelings of guilt regarding Blundetto even though it has been competing with the Carmela situation for occupying every waking moment of his life. Instead he deflects, talking about Janice attacking the other soccer-mom and getting charged with aggravated assault. Melfi is surprisingly happy to hear this, seeing a chance to discuss temper in his family. She reminds him that depression is rage turned inward, implying that Janice's outward manifestations of rage are just a different version of the inner rage that Tony feeds into himself (not that he doesn't regularly explode with exterior anger too!). She wants to know more about the Soprano temper, but as he has for 85% of their sessions together since season 1, he shys away from actually exploring relevant concerns by forcing a change of subject. He admits getting angry is bad for business, but then goes on a derail about John Gotti and how the old Mustache Petes who came over from the old country and started "this whole thing" didn't get publicly angry, they just smiled and nodded and then made sure you got it later. Mangling a phrase, he claims that revenge is like serving cold cuts, and doesn't get the distinction when Melfi corrects him it is a dish best served cold. Melfi is in one of her pushing moods today though, she isn't going to let Tony wriggle out of actually doing some work and at least being made aware of his faults. Why is Tony always so angry? Can he look to Janice for answers? When he goes on a rather generic rant about modern inconveniences, she quotes Yeats (he hasn't got a loving clue) and agrees they're frustrating... but he he doesn't just get irritated, he explodes with rage when confronted with even the slightest roadblock. Why? Uneasy at being pinned down like this, Tony admits that Janice is undertaking Anger Management classes and she might have the idea, but immediately discounts the idea that HE also do the same classes when Melfi suggests it. He agrees all the agitation isn't good for him, wears him out and leaves him exhausted... but even though she's actually laying out one of the core causes of his depression he still refuses to accept that actually taking action to treat it is the right thing to do. As he's demonstrated many times before, he isn't interested in working to improve himself, he's interested in simply throwing money at somebody and assuming the cure will come by osmosis. Despite his own failed marriage he simply can't see himself as the one at fault, failing to make even that simple step that Janice made in Anger Manager when Evelyn called her out on it.   That evening at Uncle Pat's farm, Christopher and Tony B enjoy dinner with Pat and Louise outside under a bulb hanging from a nearby tree. Everybody is enjoying the countryside and the tranquility, but the two mobsters silently make it clear to Pat that time is getting on and they need to get a move on. He tells Louise it is time for desert and she heads inside to prepare it, warning him (with love) to be polite even if she isn't there. The relationship between Pat and his daughter is almost like that of an old married couple, they clearly love and cherish each other but also enjoy those moments they have can to themselves. With Louise gone, Christopher and Tony B ask him for more information: they know where Christopher's "canned peaches" are but not those buried by Johnny Boy. Pat remembers they were the Johnson Boys but not where they were buried, all he can offer is that it was a long time ago. With Pat and Louise retired for the evening, Tony B and Christopher head out to where Christopher buried Emil Kolar after he and Georgie moved the body back in season 1 (a good thing he did, Pussy knew the other burial location). As they dig, they ponder what Tony will do when he finds out they don't know where his father's kills are buried. Blundetto complains Tony can come and dig himself if he's so bothered, and Christopher laughs at the idea, noting Tony is a heart attack waiting to happen. To his great surprise and pleasure, Christopher listens in awe as Blundetto cracks a series of fat jokes at their Boss' expense. Feeling pretty good, Christopher notes that his lessons in recovery lead him to believe Tony eats to tamp down his feelings, and Blundetto gets more serious to agree that he needs to have a good talk with Tony since he used to be the most fun guy to hang around with. Christopher is surprised to hear that, despite worshiping Tony as a kid the bulk of his experience with him is Tony being a miserable, raging rear end in a top hat, and he notes that it's probably due to Tony isolating himself once he reached the top. "Him and his money" agrees Blundetto, half laughing but half bitter... he still remembers his sons lamenting the fact they couldn't live in Tony's big house instead of sharing a room in their Grandmother's house. Christopher hits something and brushes away the dirt to find Emil's skull. He explains Emil was his first kill, a "Czechoslovakian guy" (Emil was Czech-American) and he's moving his remains for the second time. They dig up the rest of the body. In an eerie scene, a terrified port security guard is chased silently down the port by a slow-moving car, driven by Benny Fazio and one of Carlo's muscle-bound enforcers. Benny removes the guard's own night-stick and demands to know what happened to the shipment of Vespas from Italy on the night of the 12th, and the weeping guard insists he wasn't here that day. Benny proceeds to beat him around the legs with his own nightstick, the guard howling in pain and terror but still not giving an answer. The musclebound enforcer takes the nightstick from Benny and casually explains that in two seconds he is going to jam it up the guard's rear end. This finally breaks him and he tells the truth: Phil Leotardo picked up the Vespas. Back at Pat's, Blundetto and Christopher smash up Emil's remains with a hammer, collecting the fragments in a sack. Christopher, over his earlier truculence at Blundetto's presence, thanks him for helping him. Tony B assures him it's nothing, he's his little cousin after all and he has to help him. As they work away though, he brings up something that has been bothering HIM. He's sure Christopher must have heard rumors by now about his involvement in trouble with New York (I don't believe Christopher had) and he wants to assure him there is nothing true about them. Christopher assures him he never thought there was, and is quick to agree that Blundetto's time away in prison has earned him the rewards he's gotten now like the casino... why in fact Christopher was just explaining that the other day to Benny, who was complaining about it! Blundetto reminds him that though he mocked Tony earlier, he loves him like a brother and doesn't want him getting the wrong idea (or spreading the word he made those jokes). This quiet confrontation over, they go back to work smashing up Emil's remains, and then throw the sack into the lake where the bulldozers won't find it.  Benny and Carlo's enforcer arrive at the back room of the Bada Bing where Tony is shooting pool with Carlo and Paulie. They let him know what happened with the Vespas, which disappoints but doesn't surprise Tony. With a bitter smile he explains to the wary captains that Johnny has gotten it into his head that Tony B somehow was connected to Joey's murder, Silvio cracking an OJ Simpson reference in an attempt to lighten the mood. Still trying to maintain his composure, Tony considers that a shipment of provolone cheese is coming in next month and they can probably forget getting their hands on that as well. Sensing the coming storm despite (or because of) Tony's eerie calm, the others brace themselves and sure enough it comes. As Melfi said, he responds to even the most minor setback with an explosion, and he smashes the pool cue over the table while cursing in a rage. Mr. Wegler is moving through the halls of AJ's school when he unexpectedly bumps into Carmela. He is surprised to see her there, clearly paranoid she might have come to confront him. She reminds him that AJ is a senior here now and she is here for a meeting to elect party chairs for senior night, relieving him as he feared a confrontation. Taking the opportunity, he apologizes for the things he said on their last date (accusing her of weaponizing her oval office, remember!), rambling through a pathetic assurance he had meant to call her etc that she cuts off with an abrupt,"I'm going back with my husband." He's startled while she simply smiles, and manages to get out that he thinks that is good and he wishes her all the best. Nodding with a pleasant smile designed to tell him,"You don't matter to me, I'm only talking to you to be polite", she turns and walks away and her face immediately falls as her mind races. She just blurted those words out without a thought, a desperate attempt to shut him up and prove that she was well over him, but now she has to consider what she just said. Edie Falco is a great actress and the conflicting emotions on her face tell 1000 words... it's just a shame that the editor apparently died of a sudden heart attack and the show decided to keep his rough cut in as a tribute. Because this is one of the most notoriously awful editing/transition moments in the series' history, even more embarrassing than Carmela grabbing an assault rifle and brandishing it at Meadow back in season 1. As she walks away, everything goes into slow-mo and the audio drops away before ending on a literal I swear to God freeze-frame. Perhaps you could argue it was about trying to capture Carmela's own frozen, slowed down panic over what she said... but NOTHING excuses the wipe that transitions to the next scene. It's serious amateur hour poo poo, and stands out all the more since the show is - if not particularly groundbreaking in its transitions - usually a little more elegant than that.  What, and I cannnot stress this seriously enough, the gently caress? Tony B and Christopher fish with Uncle Pat at the farm. As they drink home-made wine, Pat notices that Christopher isn't partaking and asks without malice if he doesn't drink anymore? Christopher explains he's been clean and sober for 14 months (kinda) and Pat observes that Christopher's mother had the same problem, and then most importantly simply nods, offers a,"Good for you" and doesn't bring it up again. He isn't judging or mocking Christopher, he simply asked, got an answer, and accepted it. As they enjoy the companionable silence, Pat suddenly makes a connection in his brain from the discussion of drinking, and gasps that he remembers where the Johnson Brothers are buried. On the night he and Johnny Boy buried them, he noticed that one of his pickers had left a Swiss Colony bottle upside down on a fence-post in the northwest corner, infuriating him because it proved his workers had been drinking on the job. That bottle is still there all these years later, a marker by which to find the bodies. Before they can get any more from him, Louise arrives with lunch, and they put it aside to enjoy the food and compliment her on her hospitality. As Tony's, he's pissed to discover his mail has been gathered up, not attended to by the girl he hired to clean up after his lazy rear end, mad she hasn't even shown up today. Janice is visiting before taking Bobby Jr and Sophia ice-skating, drinking coffee and completely at ease, telling him simply to hire another girl if he isn't satisfied with the current one. He mocks the idea that after two classes she's suddenly got wisdom to impart, and she is clearly agitated by the remark but takes the time to settle herself and calm down before responding. Instead of lashing out, she admits that she was wrong, that he was right to be mad at her for the assault, and she apologizes and is trying her best to better herself. Tony doesn't mock this, he knows it was tough for her to say all that so he simply agrees that Bobby told him how hard she is trying. She waxes lyrical about the benefits of the class, of what a relief it has been to let go of all that poo poo, to responsibility for her own anger rather than lashing out at the world. The entire time she is speaking, a small dog can be heard eternally yapping outside the house, which probably echoes around in Tony's head as he struggles to contain his own rage at seeing his sister who shares many of his own faults actually doing something about them while he refuses to. He laughs that she's just being taught to let people walk all over her, but she insists it is about personal responsibility, noting that anger is often about self-importance. Learning you aren't the be-all and end-all of the world is a big step, and that in and of itself must alarm Tony, because make no mistake, he believes himself to be the be-all and end-all of the world. When she mentions that letting go of the anger is helping her release a great sadness, he can't help but think of Melfi's words. Biting down his bile, he tells her he's glad for her and she thanks him genuinely before leaving. That leaves him alone with the yapping dog and the sound of a passing police siren crowding in on his ears and into his brain along with his rage. At Uncle Pat's they're playing pinochle when to their great surprise Tony shows up, having needed to get out of the house where he was feeling penned in. Pat is astounded, actually getting teary-eyed to see him there: this isn't just the kid who used to come and spend summers on his farm, this is the Boss of the Family, coming up here to pay his respects, it's a huge deal for him. Louise asks if he's eaten and Pat chides her, he's a guest so she doesn't have to ask, she just needs to bring him food. She leaves with a smile, and Tony joins the others at the table where they quickly catch him up on Pat remembering the location of the Johnson Brothers before Louise can return. He joins them at pinochle, taking a moment to enjoy the quiet and tranquility away from everything. In fact he ends up sitting outside smoking a cigar even as dusk rolls in, thrilled to be away from distractions and obligations and Johnny Sack and his estranged wife and just relax. Later that night the collection of the Johnson Brothers' remains has been a success, and presumably they've broken the remains up as they dump them into the water as they did with Emil's the previous night. Driving away in Christopher's SUV, they stop at a restaurant and enjoy a good meal and drinks, Tony B revealing that they were there the previous night too where Christopher seemed to be making progress with an attractive college girl (again, both Tony and Tony B's daughters are around the same age, how would they feel if a guy like Christopher was trying to pick THEM up in a bar?). Tony cracks a joke about how Louise has put on weight and Blundetto can't help himself, making the same jokes he earlier made about Tony but this time at Louise's expense. Christopher can't contain himself laughing, delighted to be in on a little insider-joke with Blundetto at Tony's expense. Tony is amused by the jokes but confused why Christopher finds them so funny, and Tony B makes the mistake of saying he's probably just a little too drunk. That brings up the issue of Christopher's sobriety, with Tony reminding Blundetto that Christopher doesn't drink, which kicks off a series of new jokes now at Christopher's expense. Tony does actually offer a token resistance, but quickly gets caught up in the fun of a double-act with Tony B, falling back into old habits like when they were 19 and Christopher was the annoying little kid cousin (like AJ and Bobby Jr). Just like a kid, his attempts to fight back with wit of his own fall flat, particularly against their practiced schtick. He points out to Tony that the fat joke about Louise was initially made about Tony himself, but Tony just seems amused and keeps on hitting Christopher with zingers. Angrier still, Christopher lashes out at Blundetto by noting he could have called him Ichabod Crane but didn't (he just did!), and that finally seems to hit a nerve. Tony is confused, he isn't aware of this particular insult his cousin used to suffer, but Tony B stops cracking wise at Christopher's expense. Is he pissed at him for saying it? Or does he realize he went too far and upset his little cousin? In either case, the jokes are over, and a confused Tony fills in the awkward gap by offering a toast to the long-departed Johnson Brothers... whoever the gently caress they were. They know his dad killed them, but none of them have any idea why.   After returning to the farmhouse, Tony watches the news while Blundetto has fallen asleep on the chair near him. At first Tony is amused to see a story about how less than 2% of shipping containers coming into the US are checked by Customs, knowing it's part of what helps make him a wealthy man. But his good humor drops when the report goes on to cover the fact that this same inability to inspect without shutting down all global commerce also leaves America vulnerable to possible terrorist attack. With more than a little air of scaremongering, the report explains that a terrorist group could smuggle a nuclear weapon or even an actual terrorist (Islamic Fundamentalists in particular, of course, that was the boogeyman of the time) into the country, and use a GPS to track the weapon and blow it up remotely at any time. Tony is horrified, looking to his cousin to see what he thinks, only to find him asleep. The next morning over breakfast, Tony talks about how upset he is over the story he saw on the news last night, complaining about how the Government isn't doing enough (something he's happily taken advantage of in the past). He's upset that the others don't seem particularly bothered, Uncle Pat going so far as to say it isn't going to be his problem much longer. Blundetto watches Tony gulping down food as he complains about his terrible nightmares, and quips that it obviously really blunted his appetite, making Tony smile. Wanting to keep his cousin cheered up, Blundetto cracks a joke at Christopher's expense about the poo poo he left in the bathroom being the real biological weapon. Christopher has had enough, but rather than lose his temper he simply announces that it's time for him to get going. They're surprised, the work is done but they had planned to go hunting today and thought he was going to join them. He insists he has to go, giving Pat a kiss and a hug before loading up into his SUV and driving back to Jersey. As he goes, he doesn't lash out or lose his cool or shout out his rage into the void. Instead, Christopher "I'm a soldier" Moltisanti drives in miserable silence, tears welling in his eyes, feeling no different to how he did when he was 11 years old and his older cousins would bully him. Nothing has changed, his accomplishments have meant nothing, he's still just the brunt of their jokes and considered an outsider/beneath them. At least in his own head.  It's a quiet day at the Bada Bing, Vito watching a stripper with faux appreciation (knowing he's gay puts his advances on Adriana during Christopher's convalescence in a whole new light), Silvio reading the paper and Georgie struggling to add up the receipts. Tony and Tony B arrive fresh from Pat's farm, carrying bags of produce they picked up while up there, speaking with great relish of the farm and how it lets all the bullshit fall away. Blundetto gets behind the bar and pours he and Tony a drink, while Tony tells Silvio, Patsy and Vito about how upset he is over the lack of security at the ports. Sure Customs is bad for them, but letting in terrorists? Having clearly misunderstood the story he watched, he claims a terrorist was caught trying to smuggle himself into the country. Paulie, having spotted Tony arrive, has joined the others, and cracks a joke about how the Government is too busy handing out non-competitive building contracts to their friends... but hey, that's something THEY can all understand. Tony has to shrug in agreement there, but he's still upset and wanting to rant about it, complaining that the only thing between them and a nuclear bomb at Port Newark is a chainlink fence. Which is when Georgie speaks up. "You gotta live for today!" he declares, and Tony becomes outraged, he's talking about their kids getting burned into cinders! "I can't even think about it..." says Georgie at last, unsure how to react, and Silvio shakes his head in disbelief that Georgie can't read a room. Tony, as Melfi warned, explodes at this completely innocuous statement. He hurls a shot glass directly into Georgie's eye, launches himself part the bar and begins smashing in Georgie's face with with the till, screaming at him to think about it now. The others quickly intervene, asking Tony to calm down, walking him outside to get some air, Silvio apologizing to the few customers present while George is left a bleeding, bewildered mess. The next morning Tony is woken by knocking at the door and comes downstairs to answer. It's Paulie, who has come to give him news on Georgie's condition as requested. Tony seems momentarily confused at first before belatedly remembering he beat the poo poo out of Georgie, when he saw Paulie through the window at first he had no idea why he was coming: the beating of Georgie didn't really stick with him at all. They're temporarily distracted when Tony's date from the previous night comes down the stairs and says an awkward goodbye. She's the nurse from the Dermatology clinic where he got the mole on his head removed, apparently when he couldn't sleep with Adriana he found another beautiful young woman well out of his league instead. Paulie is impressed, but then gets back to business. Georgie is a big, tough guy and will heal up.... but he's suffered some hearing loss and the doctors think it might be permanent. Paulie assures him Georgie knows to keep his mouth shut, presumably talking about not telling the police what happened but perhaps also Paulie's way of saying Tony was justified in attacking him. While Tony had seemingly forgotten Georgie, as always his immediately short-term satisfaction from losing his temper has given way to regret and he peels off some cash so Paulie can make sure the bartender is taken care of. The thing is though, Paulie reports, Georgie apparently is quitting the Bada Bing, tired of getting physically assaulted for seemingly no reason. He's even asked that Tony make a point of NOT coming to see him. Paulie of course takes Tony's side, but Tony is left again with that sinking feeling of - like Janice at the start of the episode - not having control of himself.  Carmela has let Rosalie know about her blurting out to Wegler that she was getting back together with Tony. Rosalie is astonished, asking if Carmela meant it. Of course not, Carmela insists, she just said it to get back at him for that bullshit about how he was going to call her. If he was going to, why didn't he? The two take turns insulting Wegler, deriving great satisfaction from it. Tony arrives at Bobby's with a bottle of wine from Uncle Pat, to go with the lunch Janice actually appears to be preparing herself. AJ hasn't come, and Janice assures him with great authority that at this age you lose them to their friends, but they'll be back. Tony takes that advice without comment, but he squirrels it away at the back of his head. Sophia enters the kitchen and goes straight to the fridge to grab a snack, trying to sneak it past Janice who simply, calmly calls her by name. Sophia reveals the snack and Janice queries again: before dinner? "Half?" bargains Sophia, but Janice just smiles knowingly at her and Sophia, knowing she was trying her luck, puts it away and heads away without ill-feeling. Tony is impressed, and greets Bobby warmly as he enters the kitchen while Janice answers the phone. It is a cold-caller, and Tony snaps at her to hang-up on them. Janice instead simply explains to the telemarketer that they're on a Do Not Call list and she would appreciate them not bothering them again. She hangs up sweetly and calls the kids to dinner, and Bobby gathers up the pasta and follows her into the dining room. Tony is left behind in the kitchen, surprised and... not happy. Janice has had barely two Anger Management classes and she's already showing a massive improvement in the quality of her life... and he hates that. Why? Because it proves that he has no excuse. His sister shares the same upbringing as him, the same prone to violence temper... and she's doing something about it while he refuses to. He joins them at the table, where he watches bitterly as she enjoys an animated conversation with the kids and her husband, who compliments her on the meal which makes her beam. They're... happy. All of them. The kids. Bobby. Janice. She took a couple of classes and improved not only herself but her family life and marriage. So he compliments her on the meal as well and then, perhaps remembering her line about AJ, asks where she thinks Harpo is having HIS Sunday dinner? Janice's face falls while Bobby Jr and Sophia perk up in interest, who is Harpo? Bobby explains that Harpo is Hal, Janice's son, and they're surprised. They had no idea she had a son (which makes him their step-brother). Janice doesn't answer, but she keeps her composure, eating her meal, remembering the lessons she was taught about CHOOSING how to react to somebody pushing her buttons. But Tony hasn't had enough, getting increasingly more confrontational, he brings up Harpo's Blues, getting the name wrong but remembering that it is the song Janice named her son after. Bobby, sensing something is wrong here, puts a hand on his wife's arm to assure her he's there for her, but she's already starting to react. Restraining herself with great effort, she points out he's making fun of a boy because of his name, hoping to shame him into being quiet. But Tony's on a mission now, revealing Harpo is half French-Canadian and asking cruelly what the French-Canadian for,"I grew up without a mother" is. When even THAT doesn't get her to lash out, he goes completely over the top, putting on an over-the-top French accent and blaring out,"SACRE BLEU! WHERE IS ME MAMA!?!" That's more than she can (or should) take. She lunges at him, clutching a fork and calling him a son of a bitch. He leaps up to his feet, a huge smile even now on his face as he calls out for her to bring it on. Sophia and Bobby Jr cry out in terror for their father, as Bobby himself jumps up and blocks Janice, holding her back as she screams obscenities at Tony. A horrible, nasty, poo poo-eating smile on his face, a completely satisfied Tony walks out of the house. He's "proven" that Janice is still subject to rage, and that therefore she can't have actually improved and therefore HE doesn't have to feel bad at his complete refusal to make any positive changes in his own life or admit to any wrong doings.   In one of the most enraging endings to an episode the show has ever done, Tony walks cheerfully down the sunny suburban street with his hands in his pockets. He's happier than he's been in a long time, the Happy Wanderer he so often despises, walking with a spring in his step and a song in his heart. Clearly he agrees with the lyrics, he's not like anybody else. Well that's true, there are few people who are as huge an rear end in a top hat as Tony Soprano is. Season 5: Two Tonys | Rat Pack | Where's Johnny? | All Happy Families... | Irregular Around the Margins | Sentimental Education | In Camelot | Marco Polo | Unidentified Black Males | Cold Cuts | The Test Dream | Long Term Parking | All Due Respect Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Nov 7, 2019 12:56
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What always sticks out to me is if the roles were reversed, Janice would do the same thing to Tony. So would Livia. That family deserves each other.
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Nov 7, 2019 14:42
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Dawgstar posted:What always sticks out to me is if the roles were reversed, Janice would do the same thing to Tony. So would Livia. That family deserves each other. I'd feel totally different about the scene if it were just Tony and Janice sitting there having a 1 on 1 lunch together. But the fact that he has no qualms about creating that kind of chaos in Bobby's home, right in front of his kids, it's unforgivable.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:58
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can't stress it enoughMrMojok posted:e: Also, I already loathed Tony but the way he beats Georgie at the end of "Cold Cuts" and then immediately after that gleefully ruins Sunday dinner, and walks out with his poo poo-eating grin, made me long for his death. Even though that would have meant the end of the show.
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Nov 7, 2019 21:20
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Jerusalem posted:Tony, already in a bad mood thanks to his meeting with Johnny, is enraged as a smooth-talking psychologist appears to discuss how rage is becoming an increasing problem in today's society, storming out of the house to head down the road to Bobby's. I love that Bela Kakuk seems designed from the ground up solely to infuriate Tony. I love Melfi’s expression when Tony casually mentions “John (Gotti)”- a sign that he’s casually inducted her into his criminal world referring to a mob boss by his first name as if she should be as familiar with Gotti as he is.
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Nov 7, 2019 21:45
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A recurring thing this season has been Tony telling Bobby,"CONTROL YOUR WIFE!" which is ironic considering his own marriage has fallen apart. Bobby actually does take control in this episode, but in a healthy and reasonable fashion. He doesn't scream at Janice, he just calmly explains that what she is doing is unhealthy for her and for the whole family, and as much as he might love her ("I like a spitfire type") he is going to put the wellbeing of his family first. All of Janice's little tricks don't work on him (in this one instance) and so it works, she listens, she tries, she succeeds. He does EXACTLY what Tony demanded he do, and so how does Tony react? He does everything in his power to make her lose control, simply to make himself feel better. I am so, so looking forward to the episode in season 6 where Bobby has enough and just beats the poo poo out of Tony. Edit: Should have thrown that last line behind a spoiler tag, sorry. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 23:39
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Jerusalem posted:A recurring thing this season has been Tony telling Bobby,"CONTROL YOUR WIFE!" which is ironic considering his own marriage has fallen apart. Bobby actually does take control in this episode, but in a healthy and reasonable fashion. He doesn't scream at Janice, he just calmly explains that what she is doing is unhealthy for her and for the whole family, and as much as he might love her ("I like a spitfire type") he is going to put the wellbeing of his family first. All of Janice's little tricks don't work on him (in this one instance) and so it works, she listens, she tries, she succeeds. He does EXACTLY what Tony demanded he do, and so how does Tony react? He does everything in his power to make her lose control, simply to make himself feel better. Man, I should be mad about spoilers but that just sounds too amazing.
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Nov 7, 2019 23:55
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Oh don't worry, Tony is a big loving rear end in a top hat about that too.
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Nov 7, 2019 23:57
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Jerusalem posted:Season 5, Episode 10 - Cold Cuts Dawgstar posted:What always sticks out to me is if the roles were reversed, Janice would do the same thing to Tony. So would Livia. That family deserves each other. I think it's mainly an observation about how no one can really change. The whole episode in fact. How quickly the Tonys fell back in on the pattern of loving with Chris for example. It's borne out by therapy sessions too and reading about this episode made me affirm something that I tend to do in therapy (and probably a LOT of others do too) is talk about other people and their influence more than they talk about themselves or thier roles in it. I do it. I bring up my parents, my ex, my co-workers and boss, politics, etc. and they all feel like obstacles. It's really really hard for people to genuinely change and I'm skeptical that they ever really do in a truly fundamental way. I know I sound cynical but the way the episode played out made me think of it when I reflect on how deliberately provocative people can be. It's all over this episode the way people deliberately gently caress with others. I'm reminded of my own struggles with drugs and addiction and how weird it felt sometimes to be around "my crowd" when I had stopped using x, y or z and the ostracizing that would happen. Or even going to therapy for depression, partly at the bequest of my ex wife, and being met with resistance and triggers when I would learn and uncover things there that she wasn't comfortable with which I attempted to share. She wanted them to FIX me, not have her work WITH me, or even own up to some of the honest things I was uncovering about our relationship and I wanted HER to stop standing in the way of my development instead of dealing with my own poo poo. You have a whole episode here of people trying to change and complaining about how those close to them make that even harder, often rightly so. Real change is hard and I'm still not sure it's truly 100% possible. Not sure when who you are "cements" but when it does it settles pretty hard.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:39
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Jerusalem posted:His small edit; sister not daughter Oh man what an episode. Christophers blink and you'll miss it reaction as soon as Tony S tells him to have a drink is great. His little half-assed assertion that Chris is "doing the right thing" so he can end the conversation and not deal with how much of a piece of poo poo he just was mirrors the scene with Gloria on the boat. "Its more about sparing you than my feelings" "Go have a drink because your're driving everybody(Me) crazy with this poo poo" ~Tony s5 "All i am to him is some rear end in a top hat bully  " ~Tony s6
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Nov 8, 2019 01:35
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Jason Sextro posted:Man, I should be mad about spoilers but that just sounds too amazing. gently caress sorry, normally I'd have thrown that behind spoiler tags just to be on the safe side but I didn't think to do it this time. Also yes, it is amazing. banned from Starbucks posted:small edit; sister not daughter Thanks, fixed now. Also to be fair, I believe Janice is largely doing what she always does, which is fixating on something that makes her feel better about herself AND superior to others (especially Tony). It's just that in this case, what she's doing is actually admirable and it is having real and measurable results that are making the life of herself and those she loves better. Would it have lasted? Maybe not, but I can see her being insufferable in an entirely different way towards Tony and others while maintaining the stability in the home that Bobby desired and that would have been a net benefit. We'll never get to know, because Tony strangled it in the cradle just so he wouldn't have to spend a second in self-examination or admit that his problems are HIS fault and not something that is just part of nature he can't (and doesn't want to) control. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 01:57
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Jerusalem posted:Also to be fair, I believe Janice is largely doing what she always does, which is fixating on something that makes her feel better about herself AND superior to others (especially Tony). It's just that in this case, what she's doing is actually admirable and it is having real and measurable results that are making the life of herself and those she loves better. Would it have lasted? Maybe not, but I can see her being insufferable in an entirely different way towards Tony and others while maintaining the stability in the home that Bobby desired and that would have been a net benefit. We'll never get to know, because Tony strangled it in the cradle just so he wouldn't have to spend a second in self-examination or admit that his problems are HIS fault and not something that is just part of nature he can't (and doesn't want to) control. Yea, I really don't feel all that bad for Janice. Her efforts to change always seem to have some ulterior motive and she's just a very very selfish person, so no I don't buy that a few anger management classes were gonna transform her personality. But Bobby is right. Her volatility is not good for the kids, it creates a tense, negative atmosphere in the home than can be very bad for their emotional development. Especially after the trauma of their mother's death. So any form of improvement was going to have a very real positive effect on their lives, and Tony is fine with tossing that in the garbage for the chance to make his day less poo poo by feeling superior to Janice.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:13
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Basebf555 posted:Yea, I really don't feel all that bad for Janice. Her efforts to change always seem to have some ulterior motive and she's just a very very selfish person, so no I don't buy that a few anger management classes were gonna transform her personality. Well, neither is Bobby being in the loving mob and working for Tony.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:20
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BiggerBoat posted:Well, neither is Bobby being in the loving mob and working for Tony. Bobby had been a made guy for a pretty long time. Can't just quit because your kids are going through a rough time, it's literally not an option. I'm not trying to say Bobby is a role model or anything(he's a murderer), just that he's right in this specific instance. What Janice is doing is having a beneficial effect on the kids and their home life, and Tony goes out of his way to wreck that for nothing more than the momentary satisfaction of having gotten under Janice's skin.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:34
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Basebf555 posted:Bobby had been a made guy for a pretty long time. Can't just quit because your kids are going through a rough time, it's literally not an option. He's actually not and this becomes a plot point in season 6. e: Also Bobby's evolution as a character is a bit odd. He's used a lot for comic relief early on and you aren't really given any indications that he's smart or competent. Then later on David Chase turns him into a guy who is secretly quite competent and he just appears otherwise because he's introverted. He feels a little inconsistent that way. Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 16:53
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Ginette Reno posted:He's actually not and this becomes a plot point in season 6. Yeah, I think that they (rightfully) saw something in Steve Schirripa and gave him more "meat" to his character, which made him infinitely more interesting, but it does make his early appearances feel a little out-of-character with what we learn about him later.
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Nov 8, 2019 17:04
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Basebf555 posted:Bobby had been a made guy for a pretty long time. Can't just quit because your kids are going through a rough time, it's literally not an option. I get that and, yeah, he's "right" in the sense that publicly freaking out and beating the gently caress out of somebody is detrimental to the health of a family and setting a terrible example. Of course. I'm just saying that all of these mobsters - extortionists, thieves, pimps, drug dealers, smugglers, fixers and killers (Bobby did not have his button yet I know) - are always going on about their families and speaking about concern for their well being when everything they do creates a toxic environment for raising healthy children or sustaining a strong marriage as well as being actively corrosive to society. The difference (to them) usually exists in a nebulous area of secrecy that rationalizes all the terrible poo poo they do so long as the kids or the wives don't find out. Or, most importantly, the cops. They're selfish, rationalizing monsters each and every one and everything they do erodes the health of the families they pretend so much to care about. Janice's biggest sin was openly displaying what everyone else does in secret and getting the family's name broadcast all over the news, not simply loving somebody up or losing her temper, which all these mobsters do all the time. In addition, it creates an inconvenient...(what's the word...?...Google gives me "Morton's Fork" but that's not it)..."dilemma" where Bobby has to pick sides between his Boss/Business and his wife, balance his choice and placate all of them, compounded by the fact that his wife is his boss's sister. He has to choose between loyalties to his wife, his boss AND his don's sister while still considering his children's well being, along with his place in all of that. I doubt Tony would have given a poo poo if Janice hadn't made the news and had simply bloodied someone's lip or delivered a black eye to some rando soccer mom outside of the spotlight. Bobby being a relative saint in the context of multiple felons, many of whom are "worse", doesn't make him Father of the Year or even a good person. He's presented in the show as "soft", sensitive and compassionate relative to everyone else but he's still a mobster who thinks nothing of intimidating a union rep or threatening a juror.
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Nov 8, 2019 18:07
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Ginette Reno posted:He's actually not and this becomes a plot point in season 6. For some reason I remembered that scene having already happened in Season 4.
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Nov 8, 2019 18:14
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quote:"Morton's Fork" Hobson’s Choice?
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Nov 8, 2019 20:08
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Ishamael posted:Yeah, I think that they (rightfully) saw something in Steve Schirripa and gave him more "meat" to his character, which made him infinitely more interesting, but it does make his early appearances feel a little out-of-character with what we learn about him later. Sometimes I like to imagine that Bobby was reminiscent of Claudius, deliberately exaggerating his stupidity in order to remain alive as a former member of Junior's crew. Then I remember the Quasimodo scene and that whole theory flies out the window.
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Nov 8, 2019 20:15
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