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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:I'd second that delegitimizing the complaints as a hive mind was weird and kind of fragile, even if it's understandable. I do understand the stress, and if Olly's going to say that it was handled less than ideally because he was flustered, then that's fine and human. But there was this assumption everywhere that "the mob" wanted Natalie's friends to self-flagellate on stream, but I'd guess at least 95% just wanted a little acknowledgment. That's what all the replies seemed to say. Especially in Olly's case, where most of the replies were just people dropping "I smell smoke" references. This response is right because it’s addressing the substance of the question, but I can see the mode of address sparking a defensive or dismissive response. The presumed familiarity and imperative mood seem wildly inappropriately to me. Who treats a stranger this way and expects a polite response?
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Nov 10, 2019 02:44
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Nuns with Guns posted:There isn't a way, no, and people are going to express their disappointment in a number of ways every time it comes up. There's not a tidy answer to this besides "be affluent enough to afford ways to insulate yourself from the shittiest parts of the internet" or "don't be a public figure on the internet." The unfortunate reality is that the people whose voices need to be added to online discourse are the people most vulnerable when they're exposed to being a public figure on the internet. It would help if they didn't have this weird quasi-friendship intermingled with their professional one, it makes dealing with things like this much more difficult.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:46
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This response is right because it’s addressing the substance of the question, but I can see the mode of address sparking a defensive or dismissive response. The presumed familiarity and imperative mood seem wildly inappropriately to me. Who treats a stranger this way and expects a polite response? That's not imperative mood. If she said "Please speak up on..." that would be imperative. Metis of the Chat Thread fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 02:47
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Oblivion4568238 posted:All anyone embroiled in this mess had to say was "gently caress Buck Angel, he's a terrible person" and "ContraPoints either shouldn't have platformed him at all, or should apologize for doing so" and the only people that wouldn't be happy would be truscum. I guarantee everyone else would have been happy with those two very easy to say, very true statements. Hbomb only did the first one, days after it all went down, and even then everyone was happy with him. gently caress it, I'm a lurker, I don't post, I can't come up with an end for this post, but it's bullshit that you're pushing the line that this, of all audiences, was unpleasable. I mean i'm not even sure that Sex Pig wasn't just criticizing his response(I'd actually mostly agree if that was just that even though i do take what Olly said as sincere. ) without calling illegitimate but sure does read that way. A big flaming stink posted:while the observation "geez it seems like impossible to please every single person on twitter and social media" is valid to a degree, it's pretty goddamn self-serving to follow that up with "and that's why i've decided to do literally nothing" Neither of these is actually an excuse to paint Sex pig as completely unreasonable mind. Rockit fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 02:48
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professor metis posted:That's not imperative mood. That’s what I get for not reading carefully.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:50
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Rockit posted:Kinda forgetting the context of "oilly doing the first one then saying mea cupla for how he handled it" with at least one poster not accepting it. my post was in support of s. pig also both olly's initial response and eventually followup were incredibly weak. if he wants to claim that he was truly overwhelmed and unaware of the context maybe he shouldn't position himself as keenly aware of the responsibilities of being a good ally. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 02:51
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A big flaming stink posted:while the observation "geez it seems like impossible to please every single person on twitter and social media" is valid to a degree, it's pretty goddamn self-serving to follow that up with "and that's why i've decided to do literally nothing" 
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Nov 10, 2019 02:51
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professor metis posted:That's not imperative mood. I mean it still is kind of a pushy way of asking that question
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Nov 10, 2019 02:51
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Thompsons posted:I mean it still is kind of a pushy way of asking that question It’s extremely presumptuous in expressing entitlement to an answer and presumes guilt or moral laxity with the noun “collaboration” and epithet “known homophobe.” I feel like there’s a lot of people who never learned the difference between feeling an emotion and working it out all over somebody else.
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Nov 10, 2019 03:00
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A big flaming stink posted:my post was in support of s. pig Foldable outright said "sure" in response to me saying "Doing nothing is horrible way to deal with this". The point is irreverent to him doing s.pig dirty. As for the other point...one can mean it when they position himself as keenly aware of the responsibilities and have it not be the actual case. People can just be wrong and have an exaggerated view of their own skills.
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Nov 10, 2019 03:04
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Grapplejack posted:It would help if they didn't have this weird quasi-friendship intermingled with their professional one, it makes dealing with things like this much more difficult. That's true, too. I remember some twitter discourse happening like a year ago (probably around leftube  ) about how the expectations build up when you promote or feature other video creators because you like their content or met them at a con and got along well. But even doing that as a friendly gesture is professionally embedding them to you and then poo poo like this happens and you get the Concerned Parties demanding you give a statement. It's especially hard for smaller channels because there's an instinct to support and elevate them, particularly if they're bringing new PoVs to the conversation. Then you also risk dragging them down if you crash and burn and they have to choose between the optics of their channel and the well-being of a friend.and also this too: A big flaming stink posted:while the observation "geez it seems like impossible to please every single person on twitter and social media" is valid to a degree, it's pretty goddamn self-serving to follow that up with "and that's why i've decided to do literally nothing"
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Nov 10, 2019 03:04
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Rockit posted:Foldable outright said "sure" in response to me saying "Doing nothing is horrible way to deal with this". I just got the feeling you're talking about olly. If so mea cupla for misunderstanding. Yeah,. Inaction can still be called an action that harms. Sometimes you have to do what harms less. But saying "Buck did some bad things to put it lightly" and "I hosed up in how i responded and it's completely understandable how people read them." is also still doing and saying something even if you say "I don't know what to say" afterwards. TBF it's a bit off the cuff and the whole "I don't know what to say" may have had an implicit "Until now/I can stream this since i feel i can get it right if i use my voice" attached to it. Rockit fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 03:20
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:It’s extremely presumptuous in expressing entitlement to an answer and presumes guilt or moral laxity with the noun “collaboration” and epithet “known homophobe.” I feel like there’s a lot of people who never learned the difference between feeling an emotion and working it out all over somebody else. Actually the tweet uses "collab" as a verb, and the epithet is "transphobe," not "homophobe." You really aren't reading very carefully!
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Nov 10, 2019 03:25
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Something that should have been a edit
Rockit fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 03:33
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why do you keep quoting yourself
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Nov 10, 2019 03:35
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Uh why are you responding to your own posts
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Nov 10, 2019 03:36
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A big flaming stink posted:Uh why are you responding to your own posts Makes more sense to edit it back in then? Got it. Wasn't sure before.
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Nov 10, 2019 03:38
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:It’s extremely presumptuous in expressing entitlement to an answer and presumes guilt or moral laxity with the noun “collaboration” and epithet “known homophobe.” I feel like there’s a lot of people who never learned the difference between feeling an emotion and working it out all over somebody else. Like I said, she got one of the legit "Answer Me!" people and still just handled it instead of having a freak out when she would have been a little justified. From the replies, the person apologized for coming off like they were attacking her and thanked her. For whatever that's worth. They were frustrated. Not everyone is going to be elegant all the time, and if you've got a significant online presence you're going to be dealing with people who are possibly doing a lot online because they're socially awkward and not going to handle things perfectly. Maybe it's just the tiny part of my job that's online customer service speaking, but it's important for your sanity to remind yourself that most people (at least in your audience) are honest and decent, and may just be having a really bad day. It doesn't make it right for them to take it out on you, but you're in a position of being calm and having a lot of perspective and they're not. The 1% or 2% that are harassers, jackasses, con artists, etc. usually out themselves well enough with time and can be filtered out. Treating the other 98% like they're all part of that group just makes you paranoid and lovely to everyone. Parakeet vs. Phone fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 03:43
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Oblivion4568238 posted:All anyone embroiled in this mess had to say was "gently caress Buck Angel, he's a terrible person" and "ContraPoints either shouldn't have platformed him at all, or should apologize for doing so" and the only people that wouldn't be happy would be truscum. I guarantee everyone else would have been happy with those two very easy to say, very true statements. Hbomb only did the first one, days after it all went down, and even then everyone was happy with him. gently caress it, I'm a lurker, I don't post, I can't come up with an end for this post, but it's bullshit that you're pushing the line that this, of all audiences, was unpleasable. Yeah exactly this, I think I saw maybe a scant handful of actual shittiness in any responses and I looked through a lot of stupid twitter threads, the vast majority only wanted a "Buck Angel/Truscum are bad, nb people are cool, I don't know why Contra thought to include them and it'd probably be good to apologize" but that was just too hard for """breadtube""" to do or something, because it'd be "validating" the mostly invisible to normal posters bad people or whatever. A big flaming stink posted:Also both olly's initial response and eventually followup were incredibly weak. If he wants to claim that he was truly overwhelmed and unaware of the context maybe he shouldn't position himself as keenly aware of the responsibilities of being a good ally. Also this, I didn't accept Olly's responses because they're piss nothing advertisements to come watch him pretend to be an ally some more.
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Nov 10, 2019 03:50
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Yardbomb posted:Yeah exactly this, I think I saw maybe a scant handful of actual shittiness in any responses and I looked through a lot of stupid twitter threads, the vast majority only wanted a "Buck Angel/Truscum are bad, nb people are cool, I don't know why Contra thought to include them and it'd probably be good to apologize" but that was just too hard for """breadtube""" to do or something, because it'd be "validating" the mostly invisible to normal posters bad people or whatever. And now it's apparently "Sure he said those things now but it's too little too late". Correct?
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Nov 10, 2019 03:57
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So is my rap sheet boring enough that I can weigh in on this?
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Nov 10, 2019 04:06
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Stormgale posted:So is my rap sheet boring enough that I can weigh in on this? The other posters got rap sheets longer than you. I'd doubt even Foldable cares.
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Nov 10, 2019 04:12
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Rockit posted:And now it's apparently "Sure he said those things now but it's too little too late". He hasn't though, last I ever saw he's still just doing that flaky little act.
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Nov 10, 2019 04:27
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Like I said, she got one of the legit "Answer Me!" people and still just handled it instead of having a freak out when she would have been a little justified. From the replies, the person apologized for coming off like they were attacking her and thanked her. For whatever that's worth. They were frustrated. Not everyone is going to be elegant all the time, and if you've got a significant online presence you're going to be dealing with people who are possibly doing a lot online because they're socially awkward and not going to handle things perfectly. Agreed—I can just see why this dynamic produces bad outcomes so often. The actual underlying cause is that twitter is a machine designed to create that dynamic.
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Nov 10, 2019 04:27
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IronicDongz posted:I cannot unravel this argument at loving all Don’t bother
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Nov 10, 2019 05:14
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Edit: gently caress this not getting involved.
Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 05:23
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LibrarianCroaker posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKIokef7Mg lol. he had one on tokay geckos and i assumed this video was that one, but apperently that vids gone now. 
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Nov 10, 2019 05:25
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loving hell. Things kinda went to poo poo here, didn't they? Sorry, people have very legitimate complaints about Contra and what she's done. Dan, you're kinda just being a dick with your responses here. This has clearly hosed a lot of people. I mean, I feel sorry for people like Maggie Mae Fish who are pretty new and coming up and THEY'RE getting poo poo. And frankly, it's on Contra. You can talk about people's rap sheets all you want but Contra's sudden schtick, putting people like Buck Angel on, justifying herself as this "old school transexual" or whatever and pretending that anyone her age is truscum or whatever is just plain head up rear end nonsense. I do feel sorry for the other people who've been caught up because Contra decided to not let anyone else on to this poo poo. But let's not pretend that people's anger isn't valid because of loving rap sheets or whatever. That's kinda it or whatver. Maybe this should just be consigned to the ether and not discussed anymore. There's nothing coming from it but more harm and hurt. gently caress the lot of it.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:42
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Kim Justice posted:loving hell. Things kinda went to poo poo here, didn't they? this. its lovely situation all around at this point. Sex pig has their issues but i do think they are arguing here in good faith.
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Nov 10, 2019 05:48
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KSI WINS - SPLIT DECISION
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Nov 10, 2019 06:41
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I'm gonna start defending the Star Wars prequels so everyone can hate me instead of other people. I liked the Senate scene in Phantom Menace.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:56
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I remember watching a video about how the prequels were based on Doctor Zhivago that really made me think about them in a different light. Now I appreciate there was genuine artistic intent behind them which kind of makes the scope of their failures even worse.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:11
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SMG once did a long rear end post about how Jar Jar and Gungans were supposed to be a reference to Gunga Din and represent the heart of the movie, that the people of Naboo and Queen Amidala didn't need to look outside for help. They just needed to accept the native people of their planet and work together to fight off the true evil of the galaxy, capitalism/finance/colonization/"civilization." And that this tied into the larger plot of the Jedi and Republic being worthless. And that's a beautiful take that I really wish was true. Rewriting the text to support that makes for a pretty great adventure film *sigh*. It also started to make me wonder if part of the contention in CD is that the Mandela Effect is real and we're just watching different movies.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:26
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It becomes a lot more obvious what Hayden Christiansen is doing in AotC and RotS when you watch Rebel Without a Cause and realize he's doing a shockingly pitch-perfect James Dean impression.Parakeet vs. Phone posted:It also started to make me wonder if part of the contention in CD is that the Mandela Effect is real and we're just watching different movies. I mean its really obvious that a lot of harsher takes on media are the result of people checking out, not paying attention, and filling in the blanks later. Great example once was somebody specifically criticizing Zack Snyder's Sucker Punch for having "a bunch of anime style panty shots," which it... does not? At all, remotely have?
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Nov 10, 2019 08:38
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:It becomes a lot more obvious what Hayden Christiansen is doing in AotC and RotS when you watch Rebel Without a Cause and realize he's doing a shockingly pitch-perfect James Dean impression. Is that the Snyder Cut everybody keeps clamoring for?
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Nov 10, 2019 08:40
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Sucker Punch mostly sucked because I just remember all the song covers being bad.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:44
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Sucker Punch is bad for so many reasons. Not least of which is that the girls dress up in sexualized school girl uniforms in their own dreams and that they're basically Charlies Angels to some old white guy.
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Nov 10, 2019 09:02
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:SMG once did a long rear end post about how Jar Jar and Gungans were supposed to be a reference to Gunga Din and represent the heart of the movie, that the people of Naboo and Queen Amidala didn't need to look outside for help. They just needed to accept the native people of their planet and work together to fight off the true evil of the galaxy, capitalism/finance/colonization/"civilization." And that this tied into the larger plot of the Jedi and Republic being worthless. Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I mean its really obvious that a lot of harsher takes on media are the result of people checking out, not paying attention, and filling in the blanks later. Great example once was somebody specifically criticizing Zack Snyder's Sucker Punch for having "a bunch of anime style panty shots," which it... does not? At all, remotely have? Eschenique posted:Sucker Punch is bad for so many reasons. Not least of which is that the girls dress up in sexualized school girl uniforms in their own dreams and that they're basically Charlies Angels to some old white guy. Honestly how has there never been an adaption where Charlie is Charlotte? Have her be a retired Emma Peel type, guiding the next generation.
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Nov 10, 2019 09:49
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Mr Phillby posted:Genuinely can't tell if this is a mistake in some new undocumented auto moderation filter or if the system has become aware enough to start making and implementing its own rules without human oversight or apparent override. nationalize youtube
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Nov 10, 2019 09:58
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Twitch uses a system that turns normal words into emotes (unlike for example SA where you need words inside colons), so the only reason for the autobans I see if the two words for the emotes are some kind of slurs. The system sees hundreds of slurs in a row and just bans, the person revieweing the logs sees hundreds or slurs and upholds the bans.
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Nov 10, 2019 10:12
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