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Morgue file here if anyone wants to laugh at how I could have easily beaten Tomb with what I had http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/AverageBear/morgue-AverageBear-20191103-064041.txt
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Nov 3, 2019 07:48
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Hello. I want to start my very first ever rogue-like crawl but I'm not sure which one to pick. Also I read Pyke/Shadow pussy wanter's crawl diary and now I am afraid. E: I installed the Android version on my phone and this tiny hard to type on Hackers keyboard. Everything is so small. Im amazed people can do this on a phone. Charles Bukowski fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Nov 3, 2019 |
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Nov 3, 2019 17:23
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Crawl is a normal game, pretty straightforward. It's normal to die 30 times and spend a few hours just dying over and over until your eyes glaze over. It's normal it's normal nits normal normal its normal
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Nov 3, 2019 17:38
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Average Bear posted:Morgue file here if anyone wants to laugh at how I could have easily beaten Tomb with what I had We’re not judging you for skipping Tomb but we are judging you for playing trunk
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Nov 3, 2019 17:59
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gently caress centaurs
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Nov 3, 2019 21:42
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Charles Bukowski posted:Hello. I want to start my very first ever rogue-like crawl but I'm not sure which one to pick. Also I read Pyke/Shadow pussy wanter's crawl diary and now I am afraid. It was also a conjurer of veh though and blaster casters always take longer than tab masters Edit: while I'm reading the thread again. Has lvl 1 permaflight been added to tengus in goooncrawl? World Famous W fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Nov 3, 2019 |
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Nov 3, 2019 22:32
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Sort of tempted to give trunk another go, what with Fedhas being updated. At the very least you don't have to sacrifice rations to get your tower defense game of oklobs going.
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Nov 4, 2019 00:42
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Charles Bukowski posted:gently caress centaurs Don't gently caress centaurs.
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Nov 4, 2019 01:12
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Average Bear posted:Cleared my first Zig tonight. Got all 5 runes from pan. But still, somehow, I am completely helpless in Tomb. Hmmm I guess that's my fault for not thinking to pick ghoul. BECAUSE THERES NO OTHER COUNTER FOR SMITE AND TORMENT SPAM Yeah lichform is the trick and you should be aiming to get it up and running no matter what build you're doing as far as I'm concerned. Also, bonus points for getting Silence castable and then you just laugh and laugh as you send the mummies back to Ra.
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Nov 4, 2019 16:40
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Glagha posted:Don't gently caress centaurs. loving centaurs is some fun and exciting geometry
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Nov 4, 2019 16:47
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FulsomFrank posted:Yeah lichform is the trick and you should be aiming to get it up and running no matter what build you're doing as far as I'm concerned. Also, bonus points for getting Silence castable and then you just laugh and laugh as you send the mummies back to Ra. IMO if there's only one or two approaches to solving a branch, it's a bad branch. My deep dwarf axe guy shouldn't have to become a master necromancer to beat tomb. And I certainly shouldn't have to plan my build around beating it. Any build can carefully stumble their way through any other branch if they use their resources well. It's be like getting to the orb and finding out you can only pick it up with telekinesis. I know everyone here knows tomb sucks and mainline crawl mostly sucks. Just gotta rant. It's like the tomb dev saw too many people beating his precious branch and flew into The Virgin Rage, slapping as much artificial difficulty he could into it.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:02
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Average Bear posted:IMO if there's only one or two approaches to solving a branch, it's a bad branch. My deep dwarf axe guy shouldn't have to become a master necromancer to beat tomb. And I certainly shouldn't have to plan my build around beating it. Any build can carefully stumble their way through any other branch if they use their resources well. It's be like getting to the orb and finding out you can only pick it up with telekinesis. You're not wrong and I'm sure others here can chime in and say I'm wrong but Tomb fuckin sucks and I ain't messing around if I'm going 15-runes. That said I believe gooncrawl has a better tomb version in it currently than trunk, so it's not as bad. I'll let someone who is more in the know on versions chime in though.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:10
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I mean, you could also probably beat Tomb by stockpiling scrolls of silence and fog
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Nov 4, 2019 18:17
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Being able to actually use stairs makes Tomb bearable, I actually 15-rune in Gooncrawl, and I never would in Trunk without the crown of torment or a VERY specific build. That doesn't mean it makes it good or fun. It prooobably needs an overhaul. Edit Maybe instead of traditional mummy's curse, what if the mummy's curse built up over time in Tomb based on either mummy kills, or time spent? Similar to Hell effects, but slowly escalating. If it's kills, you have to decide between clearing it quickly to get the rune and get out, but that does kind of make it RNG because you don't know how many "necessary" enemies there are going to be between you and the rune. It seems like it'd be the easiest to code, though. If it's time spent, then you have to do one of a few things. Either not have the timer tick up on turns you're only resting (to keep "retreat back out and rest outside" from being the only reasonable strategy,) or lock the door and make it very mild growth scaled to the expectation that you're going to rest a couple times. Lock the door could be something where you're asked to confirm before leaving, because if you do, the branch resets (but, bonus, so does the timer.) There are pros and cons to any of these, but at least they present choices besides "do I want to deal with loving Tomb." girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 18:18
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I've done tomb about four or five times as a treeform, immolation reading, fully potion buffed monster. Treeform is the secret potion tech for dealing with torment. Just be careful for the smite. TSO makes quick work of the mummies and the health gain on the kills keeps up with the curses usually. Kiku (or was it the other undead god) will give a 50% chance to ignore torment. Crown of Torment or Torment Rod are rare finds but can help mitigate most the issue if you luck into them. Lichform is great and stoneform can help. Tomb sucks though, I won't defend it. It does have more than one solution though World Famous W fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Nov 4, 2019 |
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Nov 4, 2019 19:18
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Just starting this game out now and a few dumb questions: - you either have to go up or down once you clear a level, right? you can't zone laterally? - stealth is passive not activated right? - is stealth useful at all? I cheated my stealth skill up and my stealth rating is 3/4 full, still wake up half the sleeping monsters I see - if I want to be a spellcaster at all I need to start as a caster/ hybrid since spells seem really rare?
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Nov 7, 2019 17:37
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Mr. Pool posted:Just starting this game out now and a few dumb questions: Yes Yes No To put in a bit more detail: there are branches, but no such thing as lateral movement. You either go up or down, or down/up into a new/previous branch. You cannot go sideways. Stealth is really useful because it lets you control engagements. The one thing that will kill you more than anything else is getting swamped by groups with no way to escape or mitigate damage to a sufficient degree. Stealth makes it so that even if monsters near you wake up, monsters a bit farther away will not and will not home in on you. This doesn't sound like it would matter much, but it does. Spellcasters come in a wide variety of flavours. The thing about spellcasting is that you don't actually need a wide variety of spells. Spellcasters can supplement their arsenal with usable items no less than melee characters can. What you need is a spell that works for you and then to get really, really good at it. A necromancer can coast by on the increasing damage of Pain for the first ten to eight levels easily and your starting spellbook will contain basically everything you could need to survive for substantially farther than that. Spell variety comes mostly in once you understand the game well enough to thing about synergies.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:03
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Cardiovorax posted:Yes TY for feedback, i'm starting to think stealth is more useful for spell casters, esp if you come upon a group of enemies that are distracted or asleep, you can AoE them all vs maybe get a stab on one of them. Spells don't "level up" individually right? by being better at pain spell you mean leveling up the spell school/skill that goes with it?
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Nov 7, 2019 18:40
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Next question: is unarmed ever useful outside of hand mutations/transmutations? There aren't any synergies or special abilities on its own right? kinda sad you can't kung fu through the dungeon it seems
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Nov 7, 2019 18:42
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Next question: is unarmed ever useful outside of hand mutations/transmutations? There aren't any synergies or special abilities on its own right? kinda sad you can't kung fu through the dungeon it seems Also: Can I sell or stash items anywhere?
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Nov 7, 2019 18:43
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Mr. Pool posted:Next question: is unarmed ever useful outside of hand mutations/transmutations? There aren't any synergies or special abilities on its own right? kinda sad you can't kung fu through the dungeon it seems Unarmed combat is a fairly common choice for centaurs since it's the physical thing they are least bad at Edit: also usually most people stash thing on the first or second floor of lair of the beasts and you are purposefully not allowed to sell anything
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Nov 7, 2019 18:48
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quote:Spells don't "level up" individually right? by being better at pain spell you mean leveling up the spell school/skill that goes with it? Unarmed is something that is definitely not bad if you can pick up the right mutations or spells for it. A Troll Monk is one of the suggested starter classes because they shred everything and can easily take you to the late midgame without basically any equipment at all. It's situational, but no more than weapon skills are situational for expecting you to find a good weapon within their category. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 19:02
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Mr. Pool posted:Next question: is unarmed ever useful outside of hand mutations/transmutations? There aren't any synergies or special abilities on its own right? kinda sad you can't kung fu through the dungeon it seems Unarmed scales really well, since the base damage is your UC skill and you get down to a .5 delay, which is on-par with rapiers/demon whips and only beaten by quick blades. You also get decent bonuses from high Strength/Dexterity. The three main problems with Unarmed: 1. You lose out on brands, enchantment, and stabbing bonuses, which helps put other weapons on a level playing field. 2. The skill investiture into Unarmed is on-par with a blaster mage--if you're going to go UC, never turn it off. You get better all the way up to 27, whereas you'd turn off other weapon skills when you hit mindelay. 3. If you're able to do so, why wouldn't you add Blade Hands? For a relatively small investment and the cost of shields/gloves, you're adding a ridiculous multiplier to your damage.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:24
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Mr. Pool posted:TY for feedback, i'm starting to think stealth is more useful for spell casters, esp if you come upon a group of enemies that are distracted or asleep, you can AoE them all vs maybe get a stab on one of them. Spells don't "level up" individually right? by being better at pain spell you mean leveling up the spell school/skill that goes with it? Stealth is nuanced. The general rule of thumb is that everyone can benefit from a little stealth, but you should prioritize your main damage and physical defenses first, whether that's a particular weapon skill or a particular magic school, and after that, armor, dodging, shields, or...more magic. Stabbing is a viable (somewhat more difficult) playstyle, but should be backed up by evocables, spells, or other abilities so you can create stabbing opportunities on awake monsters, approach monsters more stealthily, or escape/finish the fight after your initial attempt. And correct, spells do not have individual skill levels. You only need to worry about your skill in whatever school(s) they're associated with. More skill levels in the appropriate skills usually makes your spells both easier to cast AND stronger, so that's usually a high priority for mages. The generic skill Spellcasting does help a little overall, but it mostly gives you more mana and more room for new spells; it's helpful, but generally much less important than the skill for a particular spell you want to cast (ie, ice, necromancy, poison, etc). Mr. Pool posted:Next question: is unarmed ever useful outside of hand mutations/transmutations? There aren't any synergies or special abilities on its own right? kinda sad you can't kung fu through the dungeon it seems Unarmed is an incredibly powerful and consistent melee type; you don't need to find the perfect weapon or anything, so it's reliable, and at higher levels is on par with or better than most alternatives. It does start a little weak, so it helps if you can supplement it with transmutations or other buffs. And thanks to Wu Jian, you can in fact have a god that allows you to straight up movie kung-fu your way through the dungeon, kicking off of walls and using ridiculous martial arts magic.
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Nov 7, 2019 23:54
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I think it could be cool to make it so that you can put brands on gloves, since then you would have an upside for using unarmed without a hand mutation, could balance it a little bit.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:10
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Stealth is nuanced. The general rule of thumb is that everyone can benefit from a little stealth, but you should prioritize your main damage and physical defenses first, whether that's a particular weapon skill or a particular magic school, and after that, armor, dodging, shields, or...more magic. Stabbing is a viable (somewhat more difficult) playstyle, but should be backed up by evocables, spells, or other abilities so you can create stabbing opportunities on awake monsters, approach monsters more stealthily, or escape/finish the fight after your initial attempt. I played with Wu Jian briefly, but it didn't seem like there was any specific synergy with unarmed though. Is it mostly just faster attacks = more Wu Jian procs? and unarmed is the fastest so it kinda fits?
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Nov 8, 2019 00:12
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This is one of those things that are conceptually a bit difficult to implement. The game is currently just not really set up to treat anything except weapons as a valid target for on-attack branding. It looks like Claw mutations 'replace' your hands with claws and that this is why you can no longer wear gloves, but that isn't really quite what the game does - it just removes the hand slots while giving you a bonus to unarmed damage when no other weapon is being used. Putting a brand on that is would require a lot of reworking that and more besides.quote:I played with Wu Jian briefly, but it didn't seem like there was any specific synergy with unarmed though. Is it mostly just faster attacks = more Wu Jian procs? and unarmed is the fastest so it kinda fits?
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Nov 8, 2019 00:19
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Isn't there already a glove fixedart with elec for UC?
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Nov 8, 2019 00:37
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None that the Crawl wiki lists.
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Nov 8, 2019 01:04
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There's one in gooncrawl, the thunder fists or something like that
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Nov 8, 2019 01:15
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Well, guess that's one problem with having brands like that already solved, then. 
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Nov 8, 2019 01:16
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I do want to add that trolls have an extremely painful midgame unless you manage to scrounge some dragon armor and slap on a shield
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Nov 8, 2019 02:14
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Yeah, it's important to remember not all races are made equal. Trolls and Gnolls both have easy early-games that get a bit more complicated in the midgame, which is a way of saying you're at the mercy of drops to determine whether your run will be relatively easy or hellishly absurd at that point. Faerie Dragon is the go-to 'easy' caster race; it's kind of grossly powerful early on, and steadily levels out to be around average difficulty/complexity by Zot (which I recognize is probably not an assessment everyone will agree with, but most races are pretty straight-forward once you reach Zot, I don't believe the FD to be that much stronger or weaker at that point for the average player). Minotaur is the 'safe' melee race; they aren't especially extreme in any way, but they're good at what they do and don't have any particular drawbacks you need to keep track of. Skeletons are hell, but life is tough for skellemans and skeleglory is the best glory.
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Nov 8, 2019 02:52
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Tomb in 0.24 is basically impossible now, I lost two 14 rune characters to it recently. One CEHu and one MfIE. The drops down to the floors below are just brutal without having the stairs up as an escape option, and even if you’re torment immune you will still be hit 3-4 times an aut by the multiple Smiters in LoS. Genuinely believe you likely need controlled blink, necomutation, firestorm and shatter all flawlessly castable, as well as about 35 ac or ev to do it now. If you’re not a spell caster I wouldn’t even bother either. You’ll quickly get surrounded with hordes of Summons with no way to reach the priests and mummies summoning then.
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Nov 8, 2019 12:44
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Did they fix ogres in gooncrawl? It's been a while since I played but last time I checked I remember ogre clubbing and rock throwing getting nerfed in favor of their spellcasting which was weird. Edit: Oh I looked at the changelog and they totally did yay. I might wanna try a Nu-Ogre in gooncrawl at some point, because while I never really bothered to do much spellcasting on my last ogre, I do like the idea they're big SMASH PUNY DRAGON dudes that are still a little magical. Glagha fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 14:27
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Mummy priests also have way too much health and ac somehow. They're wrapped up corpses and my deep dwarf with a +9 executioners axe might as well have had a chisel.
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Nov 8, 2019 15:38
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Ok yeah Wu jian is better than I thought now that I've realized its level 2 attack is an AoE and now that I know that the level 3 ability is activated not passive (doh). Still think Uskayaw (Dance god) powers are more powerful but probably get less utility out of those since most fights are too short to get used. But then again maybe its still better because those trash fights I don't need them anyway? Tough to decide which is how you know this game is pretty well balanced 
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Nov 10, 2019 01:12
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I think I'm done with crawl now. Just lost an incredibly strong FoFi in zot5 because I went around a corner and a lich walked onto an alarm trap, resulting in getting dogpiled. Survivable, sure, but then I get loving polymorphed into a bat by a killer klown, who also incidently is wielding throwing nets. Killed in literally 2 moves after that. alarm traps, honestly, need removing.
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Nov 12, 2019 19:24
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Drone_Fragger posted:I think I'm done with crawl now. Just lost an incredibly strong FoFi in zot5 because I went around a corner and a lich walked onto an alarm trap, resulting in getting dogpiled. Survivable, sure, but then I get loving polymorphed into a bat by a killer klown, who also incidently is wielding throwing nets. Killed in literally 2 moves after that. You have to admit that's pretty funny though.
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Nov 12, 2019 19:29
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 19:51 |
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Drone_Fragger posted:I think I'm done with crawl now. Just lost an incredibly strong FoFi in zot5 because I went around a corner and a lich walked onto an alarm trap, resulting in getting dogpiled. Survivable, sure, but then I get loving polymorphed into a bat by a killer klown, who also incidently is wielding throwing nets. Killed in literally 2 moves after that. I'm just imagining this done in mspaint and it's hilarious sad, but hilarious skull dude steps on an alarm clock and then a clown turns you, an ant-man, into a bat and throws nets at you until you die
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Nov 12, 2019 19:29
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