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somepartsareme posted:i haven't seen the orville but "star trek for people who can only enjoy things ironically" makes a lot of sense This is the exact opposite actually. Orville is incredibly earnest
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Nov 11, 2019 21:14
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Flinger posted:Good and correct post I only saw a few clips but it was so aggressively unfunny.
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Nov 11, 2019 21:16
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Koalas March posted:This is the exact opposite actually. Orville is incredibly earnest I've heard that's very important to be.
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Nov 11, 2019 21:16
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somepartsareme posted:i haven't seen the orville but "star trek for people who can only enjoy things ironically" makes a lot of sense I'm not even going to bother responding to the post above this one but I can understand why someone could get this from what I said, especially using Family Guy as a basis for MacFarlane stuff. It's really not that at all though. The thing that pleasantly surprised me about The Orville was that it wasn't a parody, or a mean spirited sardonic "heh we're so above this nerd poo poo" show like I thought it would be - even though I don't like Star Trek, I also wouldn't like to watch something that just dumps on it either. I knew nothing about MacFarlane's love for Star Trek when I first watched this, but I could tell you after finishing it without reading any outside material that the guy has a deep and genuine love for the source material. He clearly enjoyed Star Trek sincerely, and the light hearted tone of the show allowed me to get past my main block with Star Trek which was the disconnect between the inherent silliness of it and the seriousness with which it was portrayed. It's the same reason I like Star Wars and don't like Star Trek and I wouldn't say Star Wars is "enjoying it ironically", it's just something I find more of a tonal match.
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Nov 11, 2019 21:20
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Why would I want to be a character Jim Varney played?
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Nov 11, 2019 21:20
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I think it's pretty funny to see the Orville compared unfavorably to TNG because it has a couple slow episodes at the beginning. The date-rape-space-madness episode of TNG is literally number two. "Code of Honor" is episode three.
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Nov 11, 2019 21:24
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Sir Lemming posted:It seems like it would be shorter to say "Family Guy sucks" and not "everything Seth MacFarlane does sucks, except American Dad, and The Orville, and..." A Million Ways to Die in the West is one of the worst films I've ever seen.
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Nov 11, 2019 21:35
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christmas boots posted:I've heard that's very important to be. One might go so far as to say it's Wildely important.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:00
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somepartsareme posted:i haven't seen the orville but "star trek for people who can only enjoy things ironically" makes a lot of sense The second season is pretty earnest and mostly about exploring relationships with about 3 or 4 good action episodes that'd fit right into TNG. They also took almost all of the spotlight off of McFarlane's character and moved to the ensemble. The second season had maybe one bad episode that I thought was still okay. It is basically just more Star Trek: TNG, for better or worse. It's less ironic and more jokes about the elevator being awkward, or the security officer being Patrick Warburton with an elephant trunk for a nose who keeps messily eating food at work because his species needs to constantly eat. Or kids hacking a replicator to make booze. Or just doing an episode about someone getting addicted to holodeck porn, except it swings around to being a pretty sincere episode about someone turning to porn because his marriage was falling apart and his species is so toxic that they don't know how to fix it. And yeah, I thought the rumor was that McFarlane basically just showed up to do the voices for Family Guy anymore and that he was basically in the Wacky Deli phase. I know he bailed on American Dad around the end of season one, which was why it turned into what it is now.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:17
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Toshimo posted:A Million Ways to Die in the West is one of the worst films I've ever seen. I could not get through that film, it was just full of non sequitur jokes that not only were anachronistic but also just broke the fourth wall constantly.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:18
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:The second season is pretty earnest and mostly about exploring relationships with about 3 or 4 good action episodes that'd fit right into TNG. They also took almost all of the spotlight off of McFarlane's character and moved to the ensemble. The second season had maybe one bad episode that I thought was still okay. The episode that really sold me on the show was when Alara froze up during an emergency and starts digging around in her psyche to root out any remaining fears. The twist in that episode was well-played for what it was. That said, the show had some growing pains. I just watched S1E3 'Krill' last night, and it had it's really good points, but also some really really hard to watch awkward parts (like Gordon not being able to stop making jokes about Avis, the Krill god)
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Nov 11, 2019 23:24
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Kwyndig posted:I could not get through that film, it was just full of non sequitur jokes that not only were anachronistic but also just broke the fourth wall constantly. Plus, and this can't be stressed enough, it didn't even feature close to a million ways to die.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:33
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Koalas March posted:This is the exact opposite actually. Orville is incredibly earnest yea it almost makes me a little sad because when Seth can just be honest about the dumb poo poo he likes like song and dance shows and star trek and all he seems to have fun and do a good enough job, he's just weirdly built his brand around 'lol imagine if I liked a thing'.
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Nov 11, 2019 23:56
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All I really know about the Orville is that my very earnest parents, who love them some ST (TNG and otherwise), and have nothing nice to say about Seth MacFarlane's other shows...are totally into the Orville. So it must be doing something right in that vein.
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Nov 12, 2019 00:56
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food court bailiff posted:I think it's pretty funny to see the Orville compared unfavorably to TNG because it has a couple slow episodes at the beginning.
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Nov 12, 2019 01:57
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Hey now, some were written by an extremely horny crazy old man.
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Nov 12, 2019 07:50
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Whatev posted:Also I am guessing the Orville doesn't suffer from lady characters and hetero romances written entirely by socially maladjusted nerd men. There's an Orville episode where the Doctor starts dating a robot, and it absolutely owns. You have all the high-brow "can a machine life-form feel love?" star trek poo poo, interspersed with the crew giving terrible dating advice and gossiping all the time like they're 12 year olds. The Doctor is also an older woman and a single-mom, and it's kind of rare to see any woman over the age of 25 be permitted to have a sex drive, so that's pretty cool. There's also a running joke with the young, super-strong security officer Alara having a string of terrible dates, because everyone on the ship is a massive weirdo. I'm working my way through DS9, and it has moments of weird Star Trek chasteness, with everybody quick to swear their undying non-sexual love, but it's generally really good with its relationship stuff. The O'Briens are deeply in love, and clearly still very horny for each other, despite years of marriage. Bashir is a massive horndog, but he's portrayed as a hopeless romantic rather a skeezy PUA. And, as of S4, his only on-screen relationship has been with Leeta, the waitress at Quarks, and she's the one who pursues him. Kira and Dax have a really close friendship, with lots of banter about dates, and I like that Quark, the hideous orange alien, actually gets three separate episodes focusing on his romances.
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Nov 12, 2019 15:21
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Strom Cuzewon posted:There's an Orville episode where the Doctor starts dating a robot, and it absolutely owns. You have all the high-brow "can a machine life-form feel love?" star trek poo poo, interspersed with the crew giving terrible dating advice and gossiping all the time like they're 12 year olds. The Doctor is also an older woman and a single-mom, and it's kind of rare to see any woman over the age of 25 be permitted to have a sex drive, so that's pretty cool. There's also a running joke with the young, super-strong security officer Alara having a string of terrible dates, because everyone on the ship is a massive weirdo. In season 1 you get plenty of the doctor making out and having sex with a blob. Also, cause she was accidentally roofied by the blue alien rapist.
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Nov 12, 2019 17:00
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edit: nm
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Nov 12, 2019 17:33
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Strom Cuzewon posted:There's an Orville episode where the Doctor starts dating a robot, and it absolutely owns. You have all the high-brow "can a machine life-form feel love?" star trek poo poo, interspersed with the crew giving terrible dating advice and gossiping all the time like they're 12 year olds. The Doctor is also an older woman and a single-mom, and it's kind of rare to see any woman over the age of 25 be permitted to have a sex drive, so that's pretty cool. There's also a running joke with the young, super-strong security officer Alara having a string of terrible dates, because everyone on the ship is a massive weirdo. Funny thing is this sounds like the most realistic depiction of romantic life I've ever heard of on television.
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Nov 12, 2019 17:47
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I will say that my dad who loves Star Trek TNG does watch the Orville and he enjoys it a lot. From seeing clips of the show it doesn't seem offensively bad in any way, although as a non-Trek fan I just see it like "oh, the bargain bin version of Star Trek." However until this thread I had never heard anything about the show from anyone who isn't my dad, besides "there's an episode where Rob Lowe is a date rapist and it's portrayed as a good thing."
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Nov 12, 2019 17:51
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Casey Finnigan posted:However until this thread I had never heard anything about the show from anyone who isn't my dad, besides "there's an episode where Rob Lowe is a date rapist and it's portrayed as a good thing." TBF it wasn't portrayed as a good thing, just as an excuse for a conflict some characters had, both during and before the episode. Also, Alara's dating problems are less "everyone on the ship is weird" and more "men are super toxic about a woman who's multiple times stronger than them". (also, it was really kinda sweet that Alara's parting gift to Ed was a jar of pickles.)
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Nov 12, 2019 18:59
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Casey Finnigan posted:I will say that my dad who loves Star Trek TNG does watch the Orville and he enjoys it a lot. From seeing clips of the show it doesn't seem offensively bad in any way, although as a non-Trek fan I just see it like "oh, the bargain bin version of Star Trek." I wouldn't call it bargain bin Star Trek, because all the good Star Trek has always been bargain bin. Star Trek these days has gone all in on the grimdark trend, and the Orville sticks to the positive outlook of old Star Trek. The other advantage of The Orville is that the characters act more like real people than Star Trek did. They act like people who work together, they're not stoic and stuck to the job, they gossip and play pranks on each other, and watch Seinfeld on the bridge when nothing's happening.
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Nov 12, 2019 19:28
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Iron Crowned posted:I wouldn't call it bargain bin Star Trek, because all the good Star Trek has always been bargain bin. Star Trek these days has gone all in on the grimdark trend, and the Orville sticks to the positive outlook of old Star Trek. And how! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39W5lFZDn0
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Nov 12, 2019 21:12
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Casey Finnigan posted:I will say that my dad who loves Star Trek TNG does watch the Orville and he enjoys it a lot. From seeing clips of the show it doesn't seem offensively bad in any way, although as a non-Trek fan I just see it like "oh, the bargain bin version of Star Trek." Yeah, not to pile on but it's not really portrayed as positive. It's Rob Lowe being his "charming" Rob Lowe character which some people might have read as acceptance. It's played for comedy that he doesn't realize or understand why what he's doing is existentially horrifying. I'm pretty sure that there's at least one line about how his species is supposed to stay on their home planet during their mating time, and that he's a dick even among his species for not caring about it. It's not proof of popularity, but it's probably what spooked Star Trek: Discovery into making that crazy tonal whiplash trailer for season 2 where they slapped on all the fun swears and goofs that they had too.
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Nov 13, 2019 00:52
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I'm working my way through DS9, and it has moments of weird Star Trek chasteness, with everybody quick to swear their undying non-sexual love, but it's generally really good with its relationship stuff. The O'Briens are deeply in love, and clearly still very horny for each other, despite years of marriage. Bashir is a massive horndog, but he's portrayed as a hopeless romantic rather a skeezy PUA. And, as of S4, his only on-screen relationship has been with Leeta, the waitress at Quarks, and she's the one who pursues him. Kira and Dax have a really close friendship, with lots of banter about dates, and I like that Quark, the hideous orange alien, actually gets three separate episodes focusing on his romances. This is a strange thing about star trek series beyond the 60s one: everyone is strangely bloodless except for times when they’re arguing philosophical abstraction about duty and rights and poo poo. None of the characters ever experience lust or desire or mutual attraction. It’s like they’re written by schoolchildren or something.
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Nov 13, 2019 01:58
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This is a strange thing about star trek series beyond the 60s one: everyone is strangely bloodless except for times when they’re arguing philosophical abstraction about duty and rights and poo poo. None of the characters ever experience lust or desire or mutual attraction. It’s like they’re written by schoolchildren or something. So you didn't watch DS9? Looking for Par'Mach in all the Wrong Places for one.
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Nov 13, 2019 02:13
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This is a strange thing about star trek series beyond the 60s one: everyone is strangely bloodless except for times when they’re arguing philosophical abstraction about duty and rights and poo poo. None of the characters ever experience lust or desire or mutual attraction. It’s like they’re written by schoolchildren or something. This doesn't line up with how most people remember Riker.
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Nov 13, 2019 04:27
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marshmallow creep posted:This doesn't line up with how most people remember Riker. I enjoy how Riker says the word "bone", referring to his trombone, of course.
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Nov 13, 2019 06:05
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GoutPatrol posted:I enjoy how Riker says the word "bone", referring to his trombone, of course. PROTIP: If you're a dude, and you can grow a beard, and you want to pick up nerdy chicks...just be the guy dressed as Riker at the comic book convention speed dating event. Pretty sure that dude was drowning in pussy by the end of the day.
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Nov 13, 2019 07:01
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:PROTIP: If you're a dude, and you can grow a beard, and you want to pick up nerdy chicks...just be the guy dressed as Riker at the comic book convention speed dating event. ...there's a lot of bad taste jokes to be made there.
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Nov 13, 2019 07:18
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Iron Crowned posted:The other advantage of The Orville is that the characters act more like real people than Star Trek did. They act like people who work together, they're not stoic and stuck to the job, they gossip and play pranks on each other, and watch Seinfeld on the bridge when nothing's happening. ALmost the only thing I'd keep from the pilot is one bit in the "captain meets the crew" scene. LaMarr puts his hand up and says their old captain let them have drinks at their station, can they still do that ? Capt. Mercer has to roll with that, welcome to the Orville.
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Nov 13, 2019 08:46
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:This is a strange thing about star trek series beyond the 60s one: everyone is strangely bloodless except for times when they’re arguing philosophical abstraction about duty and rights and poo poo. None of the characters ever experience lust or desire or mutual attraction. It’s like they’re written by schoolchildren or something. Another weird thing about DS9 - early on they try and play Sisko as a lot more relaxed and sarcastic than the previous Captains, but when he's surrounded by constant stiff-upper-lip Starfleet officers he often ends up coming off as just a massive rear end in a top hat. They get the balance right later on - he's ready to allow a bit of latitude, but if you push it beyond that he'll absolutely put his foot down. Like when Bashir rudely interrupts a private call with Dukat with some insane ramblings, and Sisko reassures him "Oh no need to apologise, that's the best thing to happen to me all day. Don't ever do it again"
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Nov 13, 2019 13:13
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Strom Cuzewon posted:They get the balance right later on - he's ready to allow a bit of latitude, but if you push it beyond that he'll absolutely put his foot down. Like when Bashir rudely interrupts a private call with Dukat with some insane ramblings, and Sisko reassures him "Oh no need to apologise, that's the best thing to happen to me all day. Don't ever do it again" Or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZlBETlT1yo
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Nov 13, 2019 13:17
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Sisko is just something special. And to be fair, Deep Space Nine Nine has it right in that Bashir is the most likely to call the commanding officer 'dad'. And I think anyone would welcome an interruption to Dukat's fascist rear end.
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Nov 13, 2019 13:52
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Beachcomber posted:So you didn't watch DS9? There was a lot of horny in DS9 I liked that they addressed the fact that hollodecks would be used for sex. There's an early scene establishing it was used for nothing else before the Federation arrived Odo: Is that young Mr Sisko going in to one of your holodecks? Quark: It's not what you think. Odo: It better not be. I think Jake took a baseball bat in with him so yeah... it better not be. 
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Nov 13, 2019 16:32
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Quark's presence makes everything sleazy. No Trek can compare to DS9 in terms of sexcapades.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:36
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bitterandtwisted posted:There was a lot of horny in DS9 Someone else mentioned it but the Orville has an episode based around holodeck porn and it's really, really well done. The episode, that is, not the holodeck porn.
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Nov 13, 2019 20:24
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this thing with family guy to me is... with South Park we get a lot of commentary about how it helped normalise anti-Jewish vernacular, made it more ordinary. which is fair enough, but I don't see anywhere near enough noise about how Family Guy treats it, which was sort of mindboggling to me. South Park has Cartman being a dumb anti-semite but also being the sort of rear end in a top hat character a bunch of people would think are cool. Kyle is also a fun character who is a jewish character with a voice who points out how loving dumb Cartman is. In family guy the only mainly obvious jewish character is just a bit player A. Wyatt Mann cartoon. what's the joke? that it's SO outrageous to have a character like that only being a huge Jewish stereotype?
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Nov 13, 2019 20:28
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Someone else mentioned it but the Orville has an episode based around holodeck porn and it's really, really well done. The episode, that is, not the holodeck porn. The whole relationship between the Moclans on board is honestly really good, especially compared to how badly it could have swung in the other direction. It's really cool to see a relationship in a sci-fi show that really digs into the drama and effort involved in making a marriage work. Is there a third season of Orville? Is it just not up on Hulu?
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Nov 13, 2019 20:33
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