Linux: vim isn't moe

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: vim isn't moe

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

i don't know if i'd go so far as arch linux is good but it's extremely desktop linux. like why would you boot a linux kernel on a desktop if you weren't looking for an OS that hates you and hates life and wants to die and will take every opportunity to commit suicide? and arch has the most self-loathing of any distro

# ? Nov 21, 2019 02:53

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 01:24

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

psiox posted:

nbsd your performative contempt gimmick is really bad

not that it matters or will affect anything, just putting it out there

wrong.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 02:53

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Sapozhnik posted:

"everyone except me is a nerd! everyone except me is a nerd!" i insist as i slowly shrink and turn into a person who posts on yospos

your unsolicited lifestyle advice is quite welcome i'm sure

i really hope nbsd takes it, i'm worried for him

# ? Nov 21, 2019 02:56

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

psiox posted:

nbsd your performative contempt gimmick is really bad

not that it matters or will affect anything, just putting it out there

it's not a gimmick, i am really this angry and constipated. look at my av for an accurate impression of my posting state

also you really are either incredibly dumb, or just unable to follow the r=>c=>p flowchart

# ? Nov 21, 2019 02:58

mystes: May 31, 2006

I prefer to imagine that nbsd only uses netbsd.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 02:58

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

at any rate this is a pretty precious post

Broken Machine posted:

ms has been doing this a bunch with their updates recently, they don't give a gently caress if they break your os or randomly cause you to lose data. the only good use for win 10 is in a vm for playing games or doing office drone work that only supports windows because it's awful

# ? Nov 21, 2019 02:59

Laslow: Jul 18, 2007

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i confess i have never, ever interacted with suse on like an enterprise support basis

i literally don�t even know if SUSE uses rpm or deb packages. i feel like i should know because SUSE is its own option for some software downloads, but i�ve never given it a passing glance.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:00

Broken Machine: Oct 22, 2010

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

at any rate this is a pretty precious post

thanks i made it myself

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:00

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Laslow posted:

i literally don�t even know if SUSE uses rpm or deb packages. i feel like i should know because SUSE is its own option for some software downloads, but i�ve never given it a passing glance.

suse uses rpm, but has its own coordinating tool on top of rpm -- yast, instead of yum/dnf. it is 100% fhs compliant, like redhat, so, making packages for suse tends not to be a big deal if you have a red hat package.

(i have used suse at work once but we didn't have a support contract)

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:03

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

mystes posted:

I prefer to imagine that nbsd only uses netbsd.

i think my loathing for ubuntu is well-known. i feel the same way about openbsd

if you need a bsd, freebsd and netbsd are both much better choices

i am not sure why anyone needs a bsd, except to run on extremely weird hardware, but i am willing to admit some people like things done the old fashioned way

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:04

Lysidas: Jul 26, 2002; John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.; Pillbug

i started working for a company as a side job when i started grad school, for which the companys web site and associated services are the entire business, and when i started it was all classic asp on windows server 2003, and i was the only person there who knew anything about computers or writing software

i started the project to redo the site in python/django and the infrastructure gradually shifted as the new version of the site became production ready, now the company has ~25 servers all running ubuntu server 18.04 and a team of developers who all use ubuntu on their workstations and the company is successful and the infrastructure is stable and the website is secure and performant and there is nothing you can do about it

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:05

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

freebsd continues to exist because it is a perfectly serviceable unix-a-like under a more liberal license than linux.

really, if linus gets run over by a bus and ibm starts loving with redhat i don't think it is that unrealistic to imagine a future where freebsd has a resurgence into being a broadly legit option.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:13

Laslow: Jul 18, 2007

as of right now if you contribute to freebsd you�re basically giving sony�s playstation division free labor.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:22

mystes: May 31, 2006

Laslow posted:

as of right now if you contribute to freebsd you’re basically giving sony’s playstation division free labor.

Free as in unpaid labor

# ? Nov 21, 2019 03:23

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

freebsd continues to exist because it is a perfectly serviceable unix-a-like under a more liberal license than linux.

really, if linus gets run over by a bus and ibm starts loving with redhat i don't think it is that unrealistic to imagine a future where freebsd has a resurgence into being a broadly legit option.

had at&t not been greedy fucks back in the 90s linux would have probably never taken off since bsd would have been unencumbered by legal issues. as it stands now though freebsd is a second-class citizen with most projects and requires extra effort to make things work. when you are used to systemd, needing init scrips is like stepping back in time

Laslow posted:

as of right now if you contribute to freebsd you’re basically giving sony’s playstation division free labor.

at least netflix kicks some money and code back upstream. sony doesn't give them a dime and their code contributions are trivial scraps

# ? Nov 21, 2019 05:19

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

ratbert90 posted:

Yeah, the kernel maintainers will never support a shim.

google should just work with IBM to make this part of the kernel since they own Linux now

# ? Nov 21, 2019 05:55

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

NetBSD is good

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:05

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

eschaton posted:

NetBSD is good

netbsd is ... not bad.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:07

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i think my loathing for ubuntu is well-known. i feel the same way about openbsd

if you need a bsd, freebsd and netbsd are both much better choices

can confirm, except for stuff that�s only supported on OpenBSD like m88k

I wish NetBSD supported m88k systems

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:07

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Lysidas posted:

i started the project to redo the site in python/django and the infrastructure gradually shifted as the new version of the site became production ready, now the company has ~25 servers all running ubuntu server 18.04 and a team of developers who all use ubuntu on their workstations and the company is successful and the infrastructure is stable and the website is secure and performant and there is nothing you can do about it

your entire picture is unsupportable, because you enabled universe repos

when something goes wrong there will be no one you can point a finger at, and canonical will not help you in any meaningful sense

they will say "well why did you enable universe :smug:

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:08

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

eschaton posted:

can confirm, except for stuff that�s only supported on OpenBSD like m88k

I wish NetBSD supported m88k systems

same, and I think you, specifically, are the man to make it happen :q:

edit: seriously though, my beef with openbsd is a refusal to adopt a post-1970s security scheme. netbsd has a lot of crude oddities but it does have a mac system, right? even if that is lomac

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:09

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

The_Franz posted:

had at&t not been greedy fucks back in the 90s linux would have probably never taken off since bsd would have been unencumbered by legal issues. as it stands now though freebsd is a second-class citizen with most projects and requires extra effort to make things work. when you are used to systemd, needing init scrips is like stepping back in time

the BSDs need to rebase atop Mach and start using launchd

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:10

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

OS X needs to port to Fuchsia

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:12

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

same, and I think you, specifically, are the man to make it happen

edit: seriously though, my beef with openbsd is a refusal to adopt a post-1970s security scheme. netbsd has a lot of crude oddities but it does have a mac system, right? even if that is lomac

yeah I�m p sure

they support mvme68k so supporting mvme88k should honestly be trivial, and from what people have told me the only reason they don�t really support it is because there are no modern compilers targeting m88k

if someone were to do an LLVM/clang backend for m88k then they�d probably add support

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:13

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

your entire picture is unsupportable, because you enabled universe repos

when something goes wrong there will be no one you can point a finger at, and canonical will not help you in any meaningful sense

they will say "well why did you enable universe "

what does red hat do, google stuff for you when you open a ticket? real question, I�ve never worked anywhere that had a support contract for the OS. never felt like I was in a situation where that contract would�ve been nice, either

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:13

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

ok no, near as i can tell, netbsd does not actually have a mac framework

so, sorry folks: freebsd is the only bsd derivative with a security story that is also a competent unix

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:14

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Nomnom Cookie posted:

what does red hat do, google stuff for you when you open a ticket? real question, I�ve never worked anywhere that had a support contract for the OS. never felt like I was in a situation where that contract would�ve been nice, either

red hat literally patches the kernel when you find a problem and send them a dump

i am not kidding at all

if something crashes a machine, red hat has a fix within days. often it is hours. i have gotten a kernel fix in less than 90 minutes, but that is not something they promise to customers.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:16

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Nomnom Cookie posted:

what does red hat do

have most of the important people in the linux world on their payroll op

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:18

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

red hat makes the enterprise linux experience on lovely commodity hardware as good as the best days with the best proprietary unix

that is how they became a multi-billion dollar firm

their service desks are truly good

they respond to problems not with band-aids, but with fixes to any layer in the stack, which will be upstreamed ASAP

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:18

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

oh you found a libc regression

we will have a fix for you in eight hours

and your poo poo will be upstreamed next week so updates don't regress

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:20

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

red hat literally patches the kernel when you find a problem and send them a dump

i am not kidding at all

if something crashes a machine, red hat has a fix within days

that sounds real cool I guess but if something crashes a machine autoscaling will recycle the node and we haven�t gone to the effort of saving kdumps sooo....it doesn�t really do anything for us

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:21

sb hermit: Dec 13, 2016

Nomnom Cookie posted:

that sounds real cool I guess but if something crashes a machine autoscaling will recycle the node and we haven�t gone to the effort of saving kdumps sooo....it doesn�t really do anything for us

if it keeps happening then enable kdumps and then it'll get caught

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:39

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Nomnom Cookie posted:

that sounds real cool I guess but if something crashes a machine autoscaling will recycle the node and we haven�t gone to the effort of saving kdumps sooo....it doesn�t really do anything for us

well on a vm why the gently caress would you save a kernel dump

that is on your cloud provider

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:39

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

also again, my experiences with support contracts are distinctly old school

if you don't spend your days worrying about bugs in the kernel or libc, why would you ever care?

i do actually spend time on this kind of poo poo, despite ostensibly being a java developer for a living.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:40

sb hermit: Dec 13, 2016

this is why they buy entire teams wholesale, like when they bought Jboss

The value is not in the code, since it is free. The value is the support, since they hire the people that actually write and maintain the software. Without that in-house knowledge, there's no way to guarantee a fix within days, much less months.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:42

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

ok no, near as i can tell, netbsd does not actually have a mac framework

so, sorry folks: freebsd is the only bsd derivative with a security story that is also a competent unix

I think the pieces exist in NetBSD via kauth but they aren�t put together into a comprehensive MAC system (yet)

# ? Nov 21, 2019 06:58

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

well on a vm why the gently caress would you save a kernel dump

that is on your cloud provider

I doubt AWS could detect a kernel panic. even granting its possible, they don�t.

# ? Nov 21, 2019 07:17

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

i can�t wait for cloud hosting providers to support VMS on x86-64

# ? Nov 21, 2019 07:20

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Nomnom Cookie posted:

i don't know if i'd go so far as arch linux is good but it's extremely desktop linux. like why would you boot a linux kernel on a desktop if you weren't looking for an OS that hates you and hates life and wants to die and will take every opportunity to commit suicide? and arch has the most self-loathing of any distro

arch linux is a drat good desktop linux.

except for the thing where i did updates to fix some poo poo where desktop notifications would cause applications to freeze, but the updates introduced a new issue where the entire system freezes for 5 seconds at random

# ? Nov 21, 2019 09:32

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 01:24

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

the desktop is pointless and sucks and also nautilus is one billion times better than finder and explorer

# ? Nov 21, 2019 10:38

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