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I just want a TR4 Z Series workstation from HP or one from Dell. I used to run Xeons in a Mac Pro, but the new Mac Pro is stupidly expensive for the hardware you get.
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Nov 18, 2019 06:17
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The moment you hear dual 10GbE assume the board is going to get close to if not break the $1000 mark.
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Nov 18, 2019 15:14
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I’m prepared to bend over and take it RE: a feature rich 10gig capable motherboard. I just pulled the trigger on a Fractal Design Define R6, and now I’m worried if these boards are gonna fit physically.
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Nov 18, 2019 15:17
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Enterprise 10g PCIe cards are a dime a dozen on eBay. I don't get why you would need them integrated on the motherboard.
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Nov 18, 2019 15:54
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KillHour posted:Enterprise 10g PCIe cards are a dime a dozen on eBay. I don't get why you would need them integrated on the motherboard. To free up those sweet, sweet PCIe ports for Quad Titans of course.
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Nov 18, 2019 16:12
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I don't understand some of this tech stuff but according to this article the Ryzen 4000 series will be a huge change with a brand new design in 2020. But it's still using AM4 right? https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-new-cpu-architecture-significant-ipc-gains-higher-clocks/
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Nov 20, 2019 10:16
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it's very likely (it's really impossible to be sure of anything until the whole cat is out of the bag) that Zen 3 is still going to be on the AM4 socket, since AMD did commit to AM4 through to 2020, and DDR5 RAM is supposed to be the thing that's really going to require a new socket altogether. I would expect perhaps some more BIOS shenanigans from how many chips AM4 is going to have to support, or maybe a new socket if stuff gets delayed enough that Zen 3 slips to becoming concurrent to DDR5 becoming mainstream
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Nov 20, 2019 10:41
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Mu Zeta posted:I don't understand some of this tech stuff but according to this article the Ryzen 4000 series will be a huge change with a brand new design in 2020. But it's still using AM4 right? I'd really, really like an 8-core, 16-thread midrange CPU which improves further on Zen2 IPC, can reach good clocks (say 4.6-4.7 Ghz turbo out of the box, and hopefully with some OC headroom) and cost like today's 3600/3600x, and which still uses the AM4 socket Intel is lagging behind and now's the time for a killing blow, AMD, please do this, and just go for 12/16 cores on the high end, expensive SKUs 
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Nov 20, 2019 10:43
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OC headroom is shrinking everywhere because leaving even 5% performance on the table makes no sense if you can bin your chips and sell the faster ones as a more expensive SKU instead, good luck 
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Nov 20, 2019 12:01
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TorakFade posted:AMD, please do this, and just go for 12/16 cores on the high end, expensive SKUs But they already have? 3800x and 3850x are 12 and 16 cores
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Nov 20, 2019 12:36
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wargames posted:But they already have? 3800x and 3850x are 12 and 16 cores 3900x and 3950x
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Nov 20, 2019 12:42
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Mu Zeta posted:I don't understand some of this tech stuff but according to this article the Ryzen 4000 series will be a huge change with a brand new design in 2020. But it's still using AM4 right? Wccftech
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Nov 20, 2019 14:11
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orcane posted:OC headroom is shrinking everywhere because leaving even 5% performance on the table makes no sense if you can bin your chips and sell the faster ones as a more expensive SKU instead, good luck OK I'll do without OC if they just bring 8 cores to the "5" series (so midrange affordable) and go up to 12-16 on the "7" series wargames posted:But they already have? 3800x and 3850x are 12 and 16 cores as said 3900x and 3950x, but I was more thinking of them going ryzen 3 = 6 cores, ryzen 5 = 8 cores, ryzen 7 = 12+ cores so we can finally get 8 cores on a budget and idealy with decent IPC and higher clocks (Ryzen 3000 isn't that great on this last front, what with not even reaching advertised boost speeds... there's definitely some room for improvement there) The 3600 is already basically the best buy for the average gaming build, I just want them to make it even more so, and make Intel stop forcing people to pay a premium to get hyperthreading and/or 6 cores in TYOOL 2019 TorakFade fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 16:35
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https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-athlon-3000g-with-vega-3-graphics/22.html an early review of the Athlon 3000G, which is really just the Athlon 240GE, except officially unlocked the 200/220/240GE chips were already unofficially unlocked (my 200GE on a B350 ran at 3.8 GHz no problem), but apparently the difference here is that you can also/even overlock the iGPU (through the BIOS), and this review had it going up to 1.6 Ghz, a significant increase over the base
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Nov 20, 2019 17:15
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-athlon-3000g-with-vega-3-graphics/22.html afaik it's not quiiiitte the same, 240GE is based on Raven Ridge (4 core die) with 2 cores disabled and 3000G is a fully-unlocked Raven Ridge 2 (2 core die). Same from the user perspective though. Probably one of the reasons the price came down even further. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 17:39
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Also the IMC seems waaay better, they hit 3200 stable relatively easy, so there's no problem wringing ever last bit of performance the chip offers. 14nm is pretty confirmed when it needs 1.4v to hit 4.1Ghz, 12nm would hit 1.4v at around 4.2 to 4.3Ghz. It doesn't resoundingly beat the Pentiums unless you're trying to play games on it, in which case 2200Gs are a massive step up and only 25% more expensive. Actually I think that's important to point out, AMD has multiple generations of processors now and they're not afraid of moving stock at lower margin on older stuff. This has created a ridiculous situation where where AMD cannibalizes AMD, the 3000G is not competing with Intel so much as it is competing with a 2200G, then a 1500X, then a 1600, then a 2600X, then a 2700, all under 150$. Heck Pentiums aren't even on the map compared to that, and the only sub 100$ processor to consider is the i3 9100F right now, but if Zen3 drops July-September 2020 then you'll see blowout prices on 1st and 2nd gen processors and heavy discounts on 3rd gen. At least Comet Lake and Rocket Lake look to bring a fairly sensible SKU line up together (hyperthreading across the stack, 10C i9, 8C i7, 6C i5, 4C i3), but that's still a 4C/8T looking to stack up against a 6C/12T. B460 and Z490 boards need to support OCing. Without that you're trapping the i3 10100 in Ryzen SKU Hell.
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Nov 20, 2019 22:41
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The TR1920x is $200 as well, AMD is really in a good market place right now. https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3527-amd-threadripper-1920x-benchmark-in-2019 It's still a hell of a chip for most people's needs. bus hustler fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 04:44
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charity rereg posted:The TR1920x is $200 as well, AMD is really in a good market place right now. They would be if you could buy their drat high-end parts for anywhere near MSRP and less than a multi week lead 
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Nov 21, 2019 05:23
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charity rereg posted:The TR1920x is $200 as well, AMD is really in a good market place right now. The 1920X makes no sense unless you want PCIe lanes so badly that you’re willing to give up a huge amount of per-core performance to get it. The 3700X is basically just as fast in MT, it pantses it in per-core performance, and it’s single-domain instead of the 1920X’s NUMA. The motherboards for the 3700X are minimum $100 if not more like $200 cheaper so there is no value proposition there whatsoever. It’s purely a decision on whether you need the lanes and are willing to give up a ton to get them. Same deal for the 1950X vs the 3900X, or the 2970WX vs the 3950X. AMD has killed the value proposition of TR 1000/2000 with their desktop chips. Unless you need the lanes or RAM, just avoid TR 1000/2000 at this point. Putting a 16C Threadripper 3000 for $800 on a cheap (well, $200-300, so “cheap”) X399 board (PCIe 3.0 speeds obviously) would be a really compelling idea to get your foot in the door, but AMD in their infinite wisdom decided to kill socket compatibility and launch a new set of $600 boards to use with your $2000 processor. Consumer Zen2 is positioned really well but TR 3000 makes X99 look positively cheap. The entry level TR3000 processor is $1400, so literally only $300 less than the 6950X, the most expensive meme SKU Intel ever launched on X99. It’s fine for there to be expensive high end parts but they literally start at $1400. And even if they come out with a cheaper model to fill the gap (16C for $800 or whatever) eventually, the motherboards are still triple the cost of any other HEDT platform in the last 5 years. Rumors/price leaks have boards starting at $600 and go up to $1100+. You can buy a 3950X and motherboard for the cost of a midrange TRX40 motherboard. There really needs to be cheaper PCIe 3.0 boards for entry level users (still a $300 board mind you). That should have been X399 boards. Cascade Lake X is actually well placed for “entry level” HEDT - the people who want HEDT, want more performance than TR 1000/2000 or don’t want to deal with NUMA (I.e. anyone who will game on it) but also don’t want to drop $2000 on an entry level CPU and entry level motherboard. AMD has left a gap there. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 07:37
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Paul MaudDib posted:Cascade Lake X is actually well placed for “entry level” HEDT - the people who want HEDT, want more performance than TR 1000/2000 or don’t want to deal with NUMA (I.e. anyone who will game on it) but also don’t want to drop $2000 on an entry level CPU and entry level motherboard. AMD has left a gap there. Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone ever buy Cascade Lake X when the 3900 series exists?
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Nov 21, 2019 16:01
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Maybe I'm missing something, but why would anyone ever buy Cascade Lake X when the 3900 series exists? If you want PCIe lanes or RAM capacity. PCIe 4.0 isn't really a solution for not having enough lanes. Let's say you want to use a cheap enterprise-surplus 10GbE network card (about $25), it's probably PCIe 2.0, and it wants 8 lanes regardless of whether they're PCIe 2.0 or 4.0. 4x PCIe 2.0 lanes is probably enough to light up one of the ports. PCH isn't really an optimal solution either. All boards that have 10 GbE put that on the PCH, running across a pretty small link. If you also have NVMe on the PCH (whether directly attached to the board, or in a slot) then you're going to get bottlenecks, so things like NVMe RAID with 10GbE connectivity get tricky. Consumer platform is fine for the average consumer who puts one GPU in their system and is done, but it's not hard to run yourself out of lanes or start getting yourself into PCH bottlenecks when you build the Wendell-style rigs with the fun toys. That's where HEDT comes in, and traditionally the price of entry there has been $200-300 boards and $350-1000 CPUs. AMD has really stepped it up this time, their entry-level TR 3000 is almost as expensive as the meme-tier Intel products used to be, and while Intel's lineup doesn't go as high, it is a lot better priced for the enthusiast market where you want something a little better than consumer platform but aren't making money with it and don't have $1400-2000 to drop on a CPU and $600-1100 for a motherboard. Like, TR 3000 is basically going after the Dominus Extreme style crazytown platform, both in core count and pricing. That's the long and short of it. Sure, it's a lot better priced than the Dominus Extreme was, I'd go as far as saying it's even a great value if you're in the market for 32+ cores, but they've kind of abandoned the "mainstream" HEDT market. And even if they came out with lower core count versions - the motherboards are still crazy expensive, because they decided to kill X399 and go PCIe 4.0 only on the new platform. And yeah TR 1000/2000 is still a thing but it's really slow and bad compared to Cascade Lake-X and Zen2. Compare the 3700X and the 1920X and the 3700X is coming out on top an awful lot. Same for 3900X and 1950X, and 3950X and 2970WX. And you're still paying $200-300 for a motherboard, so it's not really any cheaper than Zen2, while being worse in a lot of other metrics. Taking TR 1000/2000 means taking a big hit in per-core performance, AVX performance, and power consumption. It sucks at gaming because a (eg) 1920X is really two 6C processors in a NUMA configuration, so it performs pretty similarly to a 6-core. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 19:20
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I can kind of get the 1400$ starting price, at least from the perspective of the 3960X nicely beating the 2990WX and therefore it is a price drop based on performance, but not having entry level boards and an entry level processor seems...weird. I think a better stack would have been 3990X - 64C/128T - 3299$ 3980X - 48C/96T - 2499$ 3970X - 32C/64T - 1799$ 3960X - 24C/48T - 1299$ 3950X - 16C/32T - 899$ 3920X - 8C/16T - 599$ Then launch TRX40 as entry level PCIE3.0 (199-399$), TRX80 as standard PCIE4.0 (349-699$) and WRX80 as production and workstation class (599-999$). As it is there is a gap left unaddressed for Cascade Lake X to sell in, which seems kinda of dumb to have left exploitable when at no time did AMD have to give Intel even that breathing room. The 3950X and 3900X should have been the 3850X and 3820X IMHO. 3900 series processors should have been Threadripper territory.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:30
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It's really not a bad deal for 24 cores and 32 cores if that's what you're in the market for. Like I said, it's really going after the W-3175X market and it's great pricing as far as that market is concerned, probably pulls enormously less power, doesn't need delidding/waterblock, etc. W-3175X is ded or at least needs to be seriously re-adjusted like Intel did with Cascade Lake-X pricing. My specific beefs are that (a) there should really have been at least a 16C part around the $800 mark, and (b) they shouldn't have arbitrarily killed X399, because motherboards starting at $600 would be ridiculous even if there was a decent entry-level processor to put on it. All-PCIe 4.0 motherboards are expensive to route and produce, I get that, but that's why they should have left the equivalent of X470 and have cheaper 3.0 boards. AMD basically is just going after the crazytown W-3175X market now, they don't have a response to the "normal" HEDT market that Cascade Lake-X addresses. "Just buy Ryzen it has 16C now", but that doesn't really address one of the major reasons people go for HEDT. It's not just about core count. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 19:33
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Doesn't TRX40 start at $400? That's still 100 bucks more than X399 but not quite as silly.
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Nov 21, 2019 19:48
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Paul MaudDib posted:AMD basically is just going after the crazytown W-3175X market now, they don't have a response to the "normal" HEDT market that Cascade Lake-X addresses. "Just buy Ryzen it has 16C now", but that doesn't really address one of the major reasons people go for HEDT. It's not just about core count. i dont think "normal" HEDT really has much of a reason to exist in 2019 in the first place tbh. i mean, HEDT never had very many logical value propositions and now it has even less. primary market seems to be rich kids who think they are going to be youtubers/3d artists.
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Nov 21, 2019 20:58
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Arzachel posted:Doesn't TRX40 start at $400? That's still 100 bucks more than X399 but not quite as silly. Oh, yeah, that's a bit better (insofar as $400 for an entry-level board can be said to be "better"). Midrange boards are still $650+ though, although it may be a placeholder. Looks like about double the price of X399 boards, across the lineup, and X399 was not a cheap product to begin with.
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Nov 21, 2019 21:09
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Ftr if your workload scales to tr levels of cores and doesn't need pcie you should just rent cloud server time tbh
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Nov 21, 2019 21:34
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I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels kind of stuck right now on my future upgrade path. I don’t necessarily need the crazy core count but I do need the extra PCI lanes for my home lab/storage server. I want 10 gig Ethernet, multiple pci slots for graphics cards, video import boards, and most importantly lots of nvme storage and sata ports for the myriad of drives I use.
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Nov 21, 2019 23:56
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I wanted to get rid of that NUMA poo poo with one last CPU upgrade for the next five years, but they threw a wrench into my plans cost wise. Then there's that news item that Zen 3 is an entirely new architecture. One reason I was considering eating the cost was that I expected all low hanging fruits to be gone, plus speculation that 7nm+ didn't really translate in a performance boost, but now they're alluding there's another considerable performance boost on the horizon. Guess I'm glad I don't game that much anymore, because Zen2 and no-NUMA would have been nice.
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Nov 22, 2019 00:15
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My friend is switching to the dark side 
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Nov 22, 2019 03:42
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I figure here's the best place to ask this: Yesterday I built a Ryzen 3600/RX 5700 PC. I loving love it, performance is great, price was like 30% cheaper than an equivalent intel system would be, etc. But I'm having trouble finding a hardware monitor that works with this generation of Ryzen. Any recommendations for something that'll show me accurate CPU temps and total system power usage? I'd been using Open Hardware Monitor with my old PC but it doesn't seem to work with Ryzen. I'm debating whether or not I need more fans and I need to know how close I'm running to my PSU's limit before I decide whether to flash the 5700 bios to an XT bios. It'd be nice if I could control the fan speeds from it too.
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Nov 22, 2019 03:45
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I've been happy (paid money even) with Argus Monitor controlling my fans. Doesn't give me power usage though. If I want to check that, I run HWInfo64.
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Nov 22, 2019 07:46
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Boys who love boys
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HWMonitor works fine, including power usage. It looks pretty much the same as Open Hardware Monitor, so pleasant to use https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
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Nov 22, 2019 11:13
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monsterzero posted:I've been happy (paid money even) with Argus Monitor controlling my fans. Doesn't give me power usage though. If I want to check that, I run HWInfo64. Yeah, I bought this to control fans too. It works.
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Nov 22, 2019 11:44
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Seconding Argus Monitor + HWInfo whenever I need fancier stats.
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Nov 22, 2019 12:33
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So I picked up my 3600 for my black friday build (Canada is weird) and I'm getting a 5700 XT unless there's a very aggressive 2070S deal. To that, can you stack the xbox game pass? Amazon.ca doesn't provide the code, iirc, but if I can't stack it why even bother? Also: Is there any brand to avoid among Sapphire, PowerColor and MSI? I'm waiting on whichever the Gaming X, Red Devil or Nitro+ is cheapest next week.
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Nov 22, 2019 22:59
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Spiderdrake posted:So I picked up my 3600 for my black friday build (Canada is weird) and I'm getting a 5700 XT unless there's a very aggressive 2070S deal. To that, can you stack the xbox game pass? Amazon.ca doesn't provide the code, iirc, but if I can't stack it why even bother? MSI’s lineup sans the Gaming X is pretty bad for the 5700XT relative to the other companies. The PowerColor Red Devil/Res Dragon, Sapphire Pulse/Nitro and Gigabyte Gaming OC are all pretty good. If I was going for a 5700XTOD grab a Nitro because I’m a freak about noise, otherwise I’d probably look at the Gigabyte gaming OC. B-Mac fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 00:40
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Spiderdrake posted:So I picked up my 3600 for my black friday build (Canada is weird) and I'm getting a 5700 XT unless there's a very aggressive 2070S deal. To that, can you stack the xbox game pass? Amazon.ca doesn't provide the code, iirc, but if I can't stack it why even bother?
The other cheap customs (eg. Asus TUF, MSI Evoke and Mech, the XFX cards) still try to waste another 20+ W chasing measurable but unnoticeable performance gains with cut-down coolers, so they just get hotter or louder for no good reason. Personally I'd get either basic or high-end Sapphire or Powercolor cards, because all the other cards don't do really anything better, and still cost as much or more.
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Nov 23, 2019 12:12
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Wasn't there supposed to be an embargo lift around the Threadrippers? They go on sale this Monday.
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Nov 23, 2019 21:40
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Yeah the Threadripper embargo lifts on the 25th, which is the same day both they and the 3950x go on sale. So there’s a good chance that they’ll all sell out before I have a chance to do real a deep dive on them to figure out what I want to go with. It’s probably for the better considering it sounds like Zen 3 might be arriving earlier in 2020 than expected and we should be seeing the next gen graphics cards by June. I’m just dying to upgrade from my 3570k and GTX670.
Huge_Midget fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 22:01
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