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Anyone read Witchmark? I just finished last night and am a little conflicted.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:01
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NotWearingPants posted:Hi, I don't post in this forum much but I feel compelled to tell people that I am around 100 pages from finishing Provenance by Ann Leckie and I think it's really bad. I read and enjoyed the three Ancillary books but this one just feels like people sitting around talking about what's happening, like the characters are telling me about a book they read or a show they watched. I didn’t think it was bad at all, but yeah definitely not up to the standard set by the ancillary books imo. I did think The Raven Tower was better than Provenance if you want to try another Anne Leckie book, though it’s quite different both in setting and the POV of the characters.
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Nov 22, 2019 19:12
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What I remember most about Provenance is that I'm pretty sure I caught her accidentally misgendering characters two or three times 
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Nov 22, 2019 19:41
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At this point, the only thing I remember about Provenance is the protagonist annoying me because she was a petulant child. Contrast that with the Ancillary series, from which I can still recall multiple characters and their arcs and the feelings that it gave me, and it's not even close.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:12
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Clark Nova posted:What I remember most about Provenance is that I'm pretty sure I caught her accidentally misgendering characters two or three times I’ve definitely done that despite rounds of beta readers and professional copy edits. Stupid brains.
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Nov 22, 2019 20:32
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tildes posted:I didn’t think it was bad at all, but yeah definitely not up to the standard set by the ancillary books imo. I did think The Raven Tower was better than Provenance if you want to try another Anne Leckie book, though it’s quite different both in setting and the POV of the characters. anne leckie should just write nothing except raven tower verse books
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Nov 23, 2019 00:21
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Ben Nevis posted:Anyone read Witchmark? I just finished last night and am a little conflicted. I have, and I’m looking forward to the sequel even though the first did have a few first novel problems. Disclosure: I know the author Curious, what are you conflicted about? Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 01:49
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General Battuta posted:I’ve definitely done that despite rounds of beta readers and professional copy edits. Stupid brains. I noticed Ian MacDonald doing it in the Luna books a few times. Partly a side effect of making Vidhya Rao's pronouns too close to feminine pronouns, I suppose; if MacDonald had used singular they instead he would probably have avoided a couple of those errors.
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Nov 23, 2019 02:33
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GreyjoyBastard posted:anne leckie should just write nothing except raven tower verse books This, but in first person or possibly third.
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Nov 23, 2019 02:33
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Stuporstar posted:I have, and I’m looking forward to the sequel even though the first did have a few first novel problems. Disclosure: I know the author Should have guessed you'd have. The relationship felt sorta yucky. Miles first two big realizations of how much he liked Tristan were under the influence of magic and then morphine. I feel like PTSD as possession has some issues as well. That's the two big "conflicts" I think. Plotwise, I don't think I understand how a bound highborn secondary can be a witch. That seems like that should have resolved almost immediately when it comes out Mathy knows he's an heir of the chief family. Non-spoilery, I thought the non-Miles characters were sorta flat. That being said, I did enjoy it, and will almost certainly read the 2nd. I enjoyed the questions of agency and class. It was an enjoyable book, and maybe I'm nitpicking a little in response to the awards and general very favorable reviews.
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Nov 23, 2019 02:44
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What I enjoy most from Ann Leckie is her non-human protagonists observing humanity and coming to care for humans in spite of their flaws. I think that's why Provenance was lacking in comparison to the Ancillary trilogy and the Raven Tower. And again, I much preferred the interludes in the Raven Tower than the present day chapters.
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Nov 23, 2019 02:47
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By the way, I both agree and disagree with the criticism that Luna: Moon Rising's ending is insufficiently final. The really evil characters (aside from the nameless LMA bureaucrats) are all dead, Ariel becomes slightly less of a self-absorbed rear end in a top hat libertarian and starts reforming the lunar political system (beginning with abolishing fees for breathing air and the like), Lucasinho's brain damage is presumably mostly fixed, and the other remaining Cortas/Mackenzies/Suns apparently decide to chill out and stop killing people over their grudges and ambitions. There's obviously one very big conflict remaining, though (everybody vs. the LMA, basically), and I can't remember what exactly happened with the Vorontsovs in the end. So there's obviously room for future books - but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. All of the setting's conflicts being resolved at once would have felt too pat.
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Nov 23, 2019 02:59
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Ben Nevis posted:Should have guessed you'd have. You’re not wrong on that first point, and I bet she’d agree because there was a similar issue in one of her next books (standalone fantasy romance called The Midnight Bargain that just got picked up) that had a similar issue of consent, where the protagonist is under the influence of magic/drugs to get over their repression, and she saw herself doing it again and went “shiiiiit” and cut that whole bit out. As for the witch/class thing, it’s been a while since I read it, but I assumed anyone practicing magic outside the system was illegal (therefore a witch) regardless of class, and he crossed that line when he ran off so he didn’t have to be an enslaved second. It’s mostly a class thing because the lower classes have no option to practice magic legally. I only read tiny bits of the sequel to Witchmark, but it seemed to focus more on the other characters, so I’m betting they’ll be more fleshed out.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:19
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professor metis posted:What I enjoy most from Ann Leckie is her non-human protagonists observing humanity and coming to care for humans in spite of their flaws. I think that's why Provenance was lacking in comparison to the Ancillary trilogy and the Raven Tower. And again, I much preferred the interludes in the Raven Tower than the present day chapters. Definitely agree with this about Justice. The whole Justice of Toren One Esk caring for lieutenant Awn and learning about human interaction from her was really interesting.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:10
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:Definitely agree with this about Justice. The whole Justice of Toren One Esk caring for lieutenant Awn and learning about human interaction from her was really interesting. I am pretty certain that Awn was actually male, Breq just didn't care and Raach language didn't either. The fact that it really doesn't matter to the story is part of the point of it, that rear end in a top hat behavior and also caring behavior can go past gender. I also enjoyed Provenance a lot more than others in this thread--the lead was kind of a spoiled brat, but she was also raised in and acting in accordance with very much upper class prerogatives, in a way that a lot of us may not have experienced. She wasn't an antifa revolutionary. The line about her trembling in fear was when she was literally being held hostage at gunpoint by enemies of her state, so I don't know why her expression of extreme fear is considered wrong or bad unless one dines solely on action hero narratives.
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Nov 23, 2019 05:22
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The Timegod was better than Timediver's Dawn, at least. Loki is still a classic Modesitt protagonist, emerging fully formed from the ether at the beginning of the book with all the knowledge, motives, and powers he needs for most of the story then acquires new powers and motives later in the book when the plot requires it with no fanfare or explanation and throughout the entire book never displays a trace of personality, but Query is at least an interesting setting, and I think Modesitt does a good job following up on Timediver's Dawn and building a world from what happened in that book. I have no idea what Modesitt thought he was doing trying to build up a mythological thing with the Norse gods (and a handful of Greek gods) actually being time-traveling aliens or what was going on with Earth, but it's not the worst attempt at that kind of mythological storytelling I've ever seen, and I suspect Modesitt may have been planning a whole series or to tie the Timegod into his other books. "An interesting and intriguing world filled with shallow, lifeless characters" seems to be Modesitt in a nutshell from what I've read, and when I went down to my local library this morning I did not pick up any new Modesitt books.
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Nov 23, 2019 15:59
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my favorite thing about ann leckie is dumb people getting triggered by the GENDERLESS SOCIETY of the radch but if you read closely its just that they don't have gendered nouns and our AI protagonist either doesnt care about the details of biologicals or got programmed to ignore it. which is a pretty cool way to make your hero volcel if you think about it. anyway im sad to hear about ann leckie's fantasy because I really liked the ancillary series
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Nov 23, 2019 17:03
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I liked Provenance more than Raven Tower. The super detached tone of the narrator in Raven Tower wasn't 2nd or 3rd tense, it was more like 4th or 5th tense. You could easily slot Ann Leckie's Provenance as a prequel to Iain Banks Against a Dark Background, or Iain Banks Against a Dark Background as a prequel to Ann Leckie's Provenance, and vastly enhance the reading experience of both books. Both feature female leads, both were about long-forgotten historical figures and events. Comparison wise, Provenance comes off slightly better despite a more limited scope than Against a Dark Background. 95% of the people in Against a Dark Background were Chernobyl event ground zero toxic, including the main character and her entire extended family.
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Nov 23, 2019 17:07
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Larry Parrish posted:anyway im sad to hear about ann leckie's fantasy because I really liked the ancillary series Why are you sad about it? The Raven Tower was fun as hell. The one some people ITT are complaining about (Provenance) is in the Ancillary setting.
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Nov 23, 2019 17:40
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Larry Parrish posted:my favorite thing about ann leckie is dumb people getting triggered by the GENDERLESS SOCIETY of the radch but if you read closely its just that they don't have gendered nouns and our AI protagonist either doesnt care about the details of biologicals or got programmed to ignore it. which is a pretty cool way to make your hero volcel if you think about it. Uh, this is a complete misunderstanding of Radch society -- the don't have the concept of gender at all, including any kind of gendered presentation. Breq is confused by it because she doesn't know any of the signifiers since Radch people just do whatever they feel like.
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Nov 23, 2019 18:09
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I'm gonna stick to my interpretation of Breq being programmed to ignore it, and interpreting that programming as being confused because its funnier. Although knowing sci fi authors theres probably a blog post somewhere explaining everything in concrete detail, and how I'm wrong and a jerk. I actually have read Provenance after I realized I'm an idiot, but anyway. I remember liking it at the time but I honestly cant tell you a single thing about it, besides characters thinking the Radch are jerks, and something vague about a spaceport chase scene. So I guess I'm gonna have to agree with the people saying it's bad because it's a real bad sign if I cant remember a drat thing about a book I read less than two years ago.
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Nov 23, 2019 18:39
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Another random thought: Anander sneers at regular Radchaii for not being worthy enough to even dock with the Radch Dyson sphere or whatever, and apparently the empire is basically a bunch of conquered people adopting customs they dont understand from an immortal psychopath who got bored one day. Maybe they're all calling each other a slur for barbarian instead of an actual genderless noun. Makes you think
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Nov 23, 2019 18:46
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That "immortal psychopath" is terrified that inscrutable aliens will obliterate humanity and is busy conquering as many people as possible to make sure they obey the terms of the treaty she negotiated on behalf of the species.
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Nov 23, 2019 19:01
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occamsnailfile posted:I am pretty certain that Awn was actually male, Breq just didn't care and Raach language didn't either. The fact that it really doesn't matter to the story is part of the point of it, that rear end in a top hat behavior and also caring behavior can go past gender. I pointed out the line about trembling in fear because it was a contradiction. She walked unhurriedly NOT to give the impression that she was unafraid, but for <other reason>. But then next sentence, oh yeah, she was also doing it to not appear afraid. It just seemed like sloppy writing. NotWearingPants fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 21:41
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pseudorandom name posted:Uh, this is a complete misunderstanding of Radch society -- the don't have the concept of gender at all, including any kind of gendered presentation. Breq is confused by it because she doesn't know any of the signifiers since Radch people just do whatever they feel like. Breq says that they don't care much about gender, not that they don't have a concept of it. I believe she even goes on to say at one point that she doesn't understand the signifiers because 1) she spent millennia not having to worry about identifying genders by anything other than what the implants in her human crew told her and 2) they change from place to place in non-Radchaai space, which is where she had the most trouble with it.
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Nov 24, 2019 01:17
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pseudorandom name posted:That "immortal psychopath" is terrified that inscrutable aliens will obliterate humanity and is busy conquering as many people as possible to make sure they obey the terms of the treaty she negotiated on behalf of the species. Never said Anander isnt justified. Still totally a crazy person, though.
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Nov 24, 2019 01:48
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pseudorandom name posted:That "immortal psychopath" is terrified that inscrutable aliens will obliterate humanity and is busy conquering as many people as possible to make sure they obey the terms of the treaty she negotiated on behalf of the species. It's been a while but I thought it was the other way around: the Radch was happily conquering until the treaty with inscrutable aliens made them stop. Imperial expansion had been papering over various tensions in society and when it stopped things started to break down, resulting in the events of book one?
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Nov 24, 2019 01:58
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dreamless posted:It's been a while but I thought it was the other way around: the Radch was happily conquering until the treaty with inscrutable aliens made them stop. Imperial expansion had been papering over various tensions in society and when it stopped things started to break down, resulting in the events of book one? I think it's more this--the Raadch expansion kind of ground to a halt as Anaander lost their drat mind over meeting a power that casually eclipsed their own.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:10
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occamsnailfile posted:I think it's more this--the Raadch expansion kind of ground to a halt as Anaander lost their drat mind over meeting a power that casually eclipsed their own. This is what I recall
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Nov 24, 2019 02:11
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occamsnailfile posted:I think it's more this--the Raadch expansion kind of ground to a halt as Anaander lost their drat mind over meeting a power that casually eclipsed their own. Yes. This is all laid out in the first book. The Radchaai economy is predicated on constant, aggressive expansion, and Anaander are well aware of that. This had been the status quo for over a thousand years when the Presger were encountered. Anaander took the arrival of the first Presger Translators and their desire to negotiate as a sign of weakness and made plans to destroy them. The Presger responded by orchestrating the disaster at Garsedd, as a way of saying "we strongly recommend that you not gently caress with us". That let directly to the Presger Treaty, which is (according to the Presger, anyways, and they're the ones who enforce it) binding on all humans (and other Significant species), not just the Radchaai. But it also resulted in Anaander's fragmentation into "we must never have another Garsedd and must find a new economic model for the Radch" Anaander and "we must build up our power and destroy the Presger; the power of the Radch shall not be checked" Anaander. Her policy of conquest is not and never was about protecting humans from the Presger. Xenix posted:Breq says that they don't care much about gender, not that they don't have a conce (perhaps even important)pt of it. I believe she even goes on to say at one point that she doesn't understand the signifiers because 1) she spent millennia not having to worry about identifying genders by anything other than what the implants in her human crew told her and 2) they change from place to place in non-Radchaai space, which is where she had the most trouble with it. The relevant quotes: quote:Radchaai don’t care much about gender, and the language they speak—my own first language—doesn’t mark gender in any way. This language we were speaking now did, and I could make trouble for myself if I used the wrong forms. quote:“[...] You might just be very good with languages—inhumanly good, I might even say—” She paused. “The gender thing is a giveaway, though. Only a Radchaai would misgender people the way you do.” quote:I saw them all, suddenly, for just a moment, through non-Radchaai eyes, an eddying crowd of unnervingly ambiguously gendered people. I saw all the features that would mark gender for non-Radchaai—never, to my annoyance and inconvenience, the same way in each place. Short hair or long, worn unbound (trailing down a back, or in a thick, curled nimbus) or bound (braided, pinned, tied). Thick-bodied or thin-, faces delicate-featured or coarse-, with cosmetics or none. A profusion of colors that would have been gender-marked in other places. All of this matched randomly with bodies curving at breast and hip or not, bodies that one moment moved in ways various non-Radchaai would call feminine, the next moment masculine. Twenty years of habit overtook me, and for an instant I despaired of choosing the right pronouns, the right terms of address. But I didn’t need to do that here. I could drop that worry, a small but annoying weight I had carried all this time. I was home. To me, this sounds like Radchaai do have gender, but (a) it's completely irrelevant in public and (b) it's not coded into their language or fashion in any way. It is presumably relevant to romantic relationships among the Radchaai, at least sometimes, which is not something that would often be germane to the operations of a ship. As far as I can tell, Breq never mentions implants in relation to gender (her ability to immediately access anyone's personnel file would be more relevant, in any case). Her "I can't see under your clothes" could be taken to be a reference to implants, but I think it makes perfect sense taken at face value. There's no indication that she was programmed not to understand gender, and while on the one hand she's spent years outside the Radch, on the other hand she's spent that time bouncing between societies with completely different gender norms, and that is weighed against thousands of years of practice speaking a completely genderless language in a functionally genderless society.
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Nov 24, 2019 03:45
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So it seems like Amazon is building up to releasing season 4 of The Expanse by having a big Kindle Daily Deal Expanse sale: Book 1: $2.99 Book 2-7: $3.99 Book 8: $5.99 And the latest novella, Auberon, for $1.99 It's perfectly fine popcorn space opera. Don't listen to the haters.
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Nov 24, 2019 12:11
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nah, listen to the haters: its decent but is kind of laughable at what the author decided was allowed to have Space Magic and what wasnt. it's one of those books where it's fairly obvious that a centrist liberal wrote it. dont get me wrong, I liked the books, but it's very 'both sides' and the way it portrays poor people is funny. for every realistic part of a poor character there's one that's '80s hollywood criminal'
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Nov 24, 2019 12:31
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Larry Parrish is pretty much a "just post/spicy take generator" who by their own admission reads hundreds of pages of books per week while retaining 1% of the content read. So you can safely skip 99% of their posts in return or just ignore them and miss little, thread content wise. Finished reading the Nancy Kress book, 2017's Tomorrow's Kin,which was next up on my fiction reading list. It wasn't great, and came off as very disjointed, like a previously written short story was stretched out into a book series for publi$her rea$on$. The book was so disjointed, it gave me solid John Scalzi zero-proofreading 1st draft serialization stories that Scalzi has been pumping out for the past few years vibes. Lots of contradictions in Tomorrow's Kin with new characters and new plot-points constantly introduced each chapter only to be killed off/abandoned forever to quickly advance the narrative. Kress's short stories are usually on-point, just can't bring myself to recommend Tomorrow's Kin to other people. By comparison, Vince Houghton's Nuking the Moon non-fiction book was pretty interesting, and I am solidly recommending other people to read it. The titular plan to NUKE THE MOON was the last actual proposed plan described in the book, but Nuking the Moon was worth the read. Where else would you get to read about Operation: ACOUSTIC KITTY, incendiary fire-bats, proposed earthquake/tsunami machines, wildly racist wartime propaganda schemes, and chicken powered nuclear mines in the Fulda gap, etc. in one book?
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Nov 24, 2019 16:26
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Another series on sale today, Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. $3 each. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074CBP9DY/
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Nov 24, 2019 19:17
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pradmer posted:Another series on sale today, Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. $3 each. This is not the lit rpg thread
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Nov 24, 2019 23:09
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pseudanonymous posted:This is not the lit rpg thread They're not that bad, be nice
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Nov 24, 2019 23:38
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StrixNebulosa posted:They're not that bad, be nice I will never know because the prologue to the first one was absolutely god awful
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Nov 25, 2019 01:36
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I'll cop to being a hot take generator but I generally remember more of a book than 1%. Unfortunstely I can't really choose which books to remember easily so sometimes $2 trash overwrites actual good books
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Nov 25, 2019 04:25
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Well here's two other kindle deals today. The Waking Fire by Anthony Ryan https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016JPTQ68/ Sins of Empire by Brian McClellan https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KT7YTV4
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Nov 25, 2019 23:44
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I need to give the Powder Mage stuff another try. It's one of those things, like I do with TV a lot, where I just inexplicably stopped reading it one day despite enjoying it and then never picked it up again.
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Nov 26, 2019 01:10
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