Night10194 posted:Like I said in the review, my greatest issue with the Ministry is them being the only game in town and taking the oxygen away from having other resistance groups. I would adore and immediately buy a Spire expansion about other possible resistance factions, ideologies manifesting in the Spire, and revolutionary end-games. I feel like the only way they justify the Ministry fighting that House is that the House started loving with them first (destroying cells, subverting others, et cetera), but it isn’t answered as to why they did that. You figure if they just made a pitch to the Ministry, “Hey, we got a plan to crush the aelfir here, we could be pals,” it’d go swimmingly since much is made of the Ministry being just as lovely in many places.
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Nov 24, 2019 01:08
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SunAndSpring posted:I feel like the only way they justify the Ministry fighting that House is that the House started loving with them first (destroying cells, subverting others, et cetera), but it isn’t answered as to why they did that. You figure if they just made a pitch to the Ministry, “Hey, we got a plan to crush the aelfir here, we could be pals,” it’d go swimmingly since much is made of the Ministry being just as lovely in many places. The other really funny thing is they talk about House Starys 'subverting the drow working class to get a seat on the city Council' as how they'll somehow easily take over and kick out the aelfir. There's already canonically a drow on the Council, the whole idea is that a single seat is powerless and Maji Fey is a token who has no real power. And the Council isn't an elected thing anyway; the working class have no say at all in its function. Councillors are just picked by the other Councillors when a slot opens up. The whole House Satyrs Civil War plot is pretty silly. I'm getting ahead of the Strata material. Suffice to say over half of Strata is pre-made adventure concepts, which I'm not as excited about compared to the excellent fluff that precedes that bit.
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Nov 24, 2019 01:11
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Night10194 posted:Unless, of course, you roll the 'Becomes a Traitor' result on the Mind table, which is part of why I'm not fond of the Mind Fallout table. I agree the two sample Mind fallouts are probably the harshest of the listed examples, but "Becomes a traitor" is actually a severe fallout available under both Silver and Shadow as well as Mind. And pretty much every Severe fallout is very seriously not a thing you want - when I played Spire, at least, we treated it as "this will 100% kill you, unless maybe..." in the same way that running out of hit points generally kills you; whether you die of "you bled to death" or you die of "you went crazy from the stress and now you're helping the aelfir, you're basically an NPC, make a new character" is kind of equivalent. (then we got like 4 severe fallouts over the course of the campaign and none of them actually killed us, just changed us in interesting and occasionally horrible ways, but we didn't stop thinking of it as death.) Also it has a whole deal about how you should feel free to create your own fallout and all of the listed ones are just suggestions, it's not a table one rolls on, you'll never get "now you become a traitor" unless the GM specifically chooses to give it to you, etc.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:03
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Yes, I should be clear: You don't roll on a table, the GM picks one of the Fallouts for the situation based on what would be interesting. I just tend to think the examples given for Mind are generally more punishing and less playable (since the two severe ones are more notably 'you will eventually lose your PC to this' instead of 'you will PROBABLY lose your PC and if you don't you are now in deep poo poo' like most of the other Severe examples) and so I'd be stuck making up my own stuff for it more often. It's more I think they're less useful examples rather than 'you can roll on a table and get totally hosed at random'.
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Nov 24, 2019 02:11
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I'm late but, Dragonlance sounds like yet another generic fantasy setting that directly or indirectly supports fascism and the idea of a monarchy as anything but a terrible idea via dumb "Chosen One" nonsense or the idea of objectively evil brown people. It needs to learn a game like Comrade. Kill Capitalism using fireballs.
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Nov 24, 2019 08:39
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 Part 3: When one makes a revolution, one must always go forward They let you dream just to watch 'em shatter You're just a step on the boss-man's ladder But you got dreams he'll never take away You're in the same boat with a lotta your friends. - 9 to 5 The Game The second chapter of the book explains the Apocalypse engine mechanics and how they work. A character has four numbered Stats: Body, Mind, Spirit and Guile, and a number of Bonds with other characters, all ranging from -3 to +3. During the game the GM may call for the players to roll according to one of the game’s Moves: rolls are made with a 2d6 and are adjusted by the Stat corresponding to that move and other possible modifiers. Generally rolling a 6 or less is a failure, a 7-9 is a moderate success and 10+ is a strong success. The Basic Moves that anyone can roll are: Get rough when you try to hurt someone, What’s going on here? for trying to figure out a person or a situation, Take a risk for, uh, taking a risk, Start something for when you want to to get a crowd of people to do what you want, be it going on a strike or starting a riot, Sway to convince someone to do what you want, Sneak to get something past someone without them noticing, Help or Hinder a comrade to give another player bonuses or penalties to their roll when they try to make a Move, Share a quiet moment to connect with your comrades so you can work better as a team, and Cradle a dying comrade to give comfort to someone on the verge of death. This is a pretty standard list for Moves for a PbtA game, with Starting something and Cradling a dying comrade being tailor-made for Comrades. Take a risk is meant as the catch-all Move the GM can ask someone to roll when none of the other Moves fit. A player could conceivably argue for most things they try to do to fall under Take a risk (like Act under fire from the original Apocalypse World), but the GM has the final say and what Move you roll. In addition to the Basic Moves listed above each Playbook (the rough equivalent of classes for PbtA characters) has a number of Special Moves only they can roll. Everything else is pretty much as it is in most Apocalypse engine games: a character gains experience during play and can choose from a list of advances when they get five total experience. Characters can take up to 4 harm, and when they do they are dying and need someone else to roll Cradle to pull them back from the brink – unless the damage is so severe that death is inarguable. Comrades leaves the amount of harm characters take from their actions up to the GM’s discretion, and it doesn’t have to be physical. It is advised to give characters harm from mental trauma or exhaustion only when they haven’t yet taken any harm, though. GM’s are also encouraged to be generous with healing, letting the characters wipe off all harm at the start of each session (unless they’ve taken a very severe injury, like a broken leg). The less harm the characters have the more you can hurt them during play. Some playbooks can assemble a gang under their banner, giving them a bonus to all rolls made when the gang lends them a hand (and the situation allows for their help – you wont get any aid from your gangmembers when trying to share a moment with someone). If you use your gang when fighting a group that’s smaller, you get an increase to all harm you deal. You won’t get anything for fighting a group that’s equal or greater in size. Players must keep in mind that a gang isnt just a faceless mook-squad that exists solely to give them bonuses to rolls – the GM should ask the player to describe a few notable members of their gang when creating it. These NPCs are people, with their own personalities and goals, there to be used by the GM to provide conflicts and opportunity within the movement itself. Having a gang should always be a double-edged sword: if they grow powerful enough and the player doesn’t pay enough attention to keeping them under control during play, one or more of the members might challenge the character for leadership. Gangs are a good way of breathing life into the revolutionary movement, making it be more than just the players’ characters. Now, let’s get to the Pathways to Revolution. These are the things the Comrades are working towards, a collection of different paths they will inevitably progress along as they fight the good fight. How it works is that at the end of every game session, the party chooses a comrade who in their mind best exemplified the ideals of the revolutionary underground during play. That player then gets to roll one or more pathway moves using the according stat depending on the comrades’ actions during the game. If any other player’s character died during the session and another comrade got to hear their last words (the moderate success result when Cradling a dying comrade), they can influence a pathway move of their choice if they want to. On a strong success, the party’s rank in that pathway increases. A moderate success gives everyone in the party experience without progressing on the pathway, and a failure has no immediate consequences. The GM is encouraged to use failures as inspiration for possible problems in later session: maybe there’s a public backlash to the group’s actions, or maybe the secret police starts to plan a counterattack. Groups who want to play a shorter campaign can progress on a pathway on a moderate success in exchange for starting the next session with serious problems, which are up to the GM. Each pathway is ranked from 0 to 5. When the comrades reach 5 in any of them, the revolution is at hand and it’s time to try and seize power during the next session. This attempt can succeed or fail: after all, most revolutions rarely succeeded on the first try. A loss doesn’t mean an automatic end of play, though – comrades who get knocked back but not put down can keep on fighting and the campaign continues. If the group wants to play a more open-ended campaign they can ignore or modify the pathway rules to suit their style. The pathways are more than just a number that tells you how close you are to a revolution: they are an abstraction of the entire revolutionary movement, telling everyone what is happening off-screen between scenes and sessions while the campaign keeps moving forward towards it’s inevitable climax. As the revolution moves forward on a pathway, the world changes with it, for both good and bad. As you take the next step towards taking power, the harder the powers that be try to keep you down and the more direct their methods get. A vast majority of groups will advance on more than one pathway simultaneously, making their movement unique from all others. In the rarest cases, when a party suffers a setback of catastrophic proportions, the revolution might take a step backwards on a path. Each level in a pathway gives the party, and the revolution at large, advantages as the movement becomes more proficient in that particular method of resistance. When the comrades use their strength to smash their opposition, they roll Force. Force is the pathway of changing the world with your fists, whether it’s against the police, the army or rival revolutionary groups. Force represents the revolution fighting openly on the streets, defeating the opposing forces in battle and driving them before you. As they progress on this pathway the revolutionaries transform from a cadre of like-minded individuals into an effective fighting force, eventually adopting uniforms or armbands and even using violence and intimidation during elections to get the results they want. When a revolution reaches 5 in Force, it is time to overthrow the oppressors and prepare for open battle in the streets with the government bootlickers. Parties have to be careful when treading this path: the more they rely on violence and brute strength to get what they want, the more they start to resemble the fascists they are supposed to be fighting against. When the comrades execute their plans with precision and care, they roll Organization. This is the hardest path for a revolution to walk upon. Organization is your party’s logistic network, your infrastructure, the ability to plan ahead and the discipline among your comrades. The further the revolution proceeds on the path of organization, the better it functions in an orderly manner and the more respectable it becomes in the eyes of society. A revolutionary movement that reaches 5 in Organization can try to seize power through legal means, calling for elections in which they are allowed to participate and win. When the comrades do something to inspire the oppressed masses, they roll Zealotry. Zealotry is the path of mob rule, of grassroot movements that over time grow into tides that wash over the old order. A revolution that walks the path of the zealot will find supporters and symphatizers everywhere they go, with people holding demonstrations for your cause and filling your coffers with money. A revolution that reaches 5 in Zealotry can try to overthrow the government with a popular uprising, filling the streets with your people demanding the fascists to step down. As a movement advances further along Zealotry it gets closer and closer to spinning out of the party's control, causing chaos and destruction if the comrades aren’t careful. When the comrades use indiscriminate violence to spread fear and chaos among the people, they roll Mayhem. Mayhem represents bombing campaigns, terror attacks and assassinations. The higher the revolution's rank in Mayhem, the easier it is for it’s members to procure explosives and other tools of terror and to find opportunities to kill important government officials. A movement that reaches 5 in Mayhem can start a campaign of terror and chaos on a massive scale in the capital, hoping that the ensuing fear drives the populace mad and gives them the opportunity to seize power. The book calls Mayhem the most problematic of all the pathways. Resorting to Mayhem means attacks against the civilian populace, regardless of casualties. Relying on it too much can turn the people against the revolution, labeling them terrorists and criminals. When the comrades risk their lives for each other, they roll Fellowship. Fellowship is the movement’s esprit de corps, the belief that their camaraderie and ability to work together trumps any ideology. Fellowship is the only pathway with clear mechanical rewards and is the easiest path to starting a revolution, but it’s effects are limited. As they progress along Fellowship the movement will recruit from their close friends and strengthen their bonds of trust. Comrades who reach 5 in Fellowship can plan an assassination against the head of state without fear of someone ratting them out – but whether or not this is enough to topple the government is uncertain. The violent means of resistance – Force and Mayhem – are presented as problematic and dangerous if left unchecked, with ugly and painful consequences for our comrades that they shouldn’t feel good about. It is up to individual readers to decide whether or not they agree with the sentiment. In Aker’s view murder is evil, even if effective. An ideal revolution in Comrades only uses violence when absolutely necessary, otherwise trying to advance their cause through legal and peaceful means no matter how long it might take or futile they efforts might seem. Each pathway is clearly recognizable and inspired by revolutions and resistance movements of the last century, but it is left to the GM’s discretion as to what effects they have on the world around the comrades and how effective they are depending on the setting and the group you're playing with. Players that use violence and combat without care should see and feel the the change over time as the revolution turns into something ugly and abhorrent, no longer worthy of idolizing or even fighting for. In my experience the pathways are a very good way of representing the revolutionary movement's existence beyond the player's characters, while still having them be the driving force behind it and giving them the agency of steering it towards different methods and goals. The GM should take extra care to discuss the pathways with the players and make clear what consequences each path may bring so the players don't feel cheated if the revolutions turn sour. Give them a chance to change course and tactics if you feel they are only resorting to violence or other unsavory methods – if they keep steaming ahead regardless, it’s time for the revolution to eat it’s children, perhaps after it has succeeded. History is filled with examples of revolutionary heroes turning into villains and getting shot for all their efforts after the new order is established. In the next chapter, The Comrades, we get to meet the members of our revolutionary underground. You can buy Comrades from DriveThruRPG. HerraS fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 16:19
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I would be very interested to find out if Comrades' pathways or advancement systems represent the tendency for the establishment to co-opt revolutions by tying them into their societal advancement mechanisms. And when the news was brought one day while we were shooting pheasants, "The Empire is in disarray! Revolt among the peasants!" Our upper lips were stiff as boards, we knew we were not beaten; We made the Labour leaders lords and sent their sons to Eton. - John Brunner, 1964
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Nov 24, 2019 17:25
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The only downside to Severe Mind Fallout killing your char is that the GM has to choose it, making it possible for a grudge to arise, as player can feel hosed by the DM. I'm generally not opposed to corruption mechanics or w/e to be a way for a char to buy it outside of combat, they only have to be done right. Also, hype for comrades.
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Nov 24, 2019 18:25
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JcDent posted:The only downside to Severe Mind Fallout killing your char is that the GM has to choose it, making it possible for a grudge to arise, as player can feel hosed by the DM. I'm kind of okay with the traitor stuff. Then again I'm usually the GM so I have a way different perspective on characters then most people because I'm used to thinking of them as disposable and I don't take steps to protect my NPCs no matter how much I like them. It should be noted that turn traitor is actually presented twice and can happen for three of the five stress tracks so it's actually a bit more likely then just Mind stress. There's also a severe fallout where a god brings you back from the dead in exchange for services rendered, which is not sinister at all. Dying is, of course, another option for severe fallout. There's two severe options for each stress type and all of the severe fallout choices are bad, but most of them keep your character in the game or give you the option to go out on your terms. Even a traitor still gets to play and it's up to the player to handle that. Besides, unlike dying, you can actually come back from this one so I still don't know why it's a big deal other than gaming with GMs who gently caress up. Maybe it would be better if 'permanent catatonia' was a Mind stress choice so the GMs and players could negotiate to that if they wanted to (technically, you can go with Obsession fallout instead and just have your PC be a deranged broken hobo).
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Nov 24, 2019 20:09
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Yeah, for me, it's specifically that the Mind version of becoming a traitor is 'you become a traitor who hates everyone you used to work with' rather than the Silver/Shadow ones where someone gets you over a barrel and turns you, and now you have the choice of coming clean to protect your allies (and get shot in the head) or desperately trying to play double agent or thread the needle as everything goes to poo poo around you. It's more that the wording dictates your reaction/what happens, while the others are more 'some really bad poo poo has gone down, you're over a barrel, what do you do now?' But I think that's more just word choice than the actual nature of it. In general, Severe Fallout is 'this is either going to be a major climax, or a point where if you decide to keep playing as who you are things are going to go badly while if you give up your PC, you probably get one last cool scene before you're on to your next PC'. You might get through a Severe Fallout. It's possible. It's not going to be nice. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 20:14
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Night10194 posted:Yeah, for me, it's specifically that the Mind version of becoming a traitor is 'you become a traitor who hates everyone you used to work with' rather than the Silver/Shadow ones where someone gets you over a barrel and turns you, and now you have the choice of coming clean to protect your allies (and get shot in the head) or desperately trying to play double agent or thread the needle as everything goes to poo poo around you. It's more that the wording dictates your reaction/what happens, while the others are more 'some really bad poo poo has gone down, you're over a barrel, what do you do now?' But I think that's more just word choice than the actual nature of it. Yeah I kind of appreciate the difference here and see that's why the Mind one is sort of worse than the Reputation or Silver ones.
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Nov 24, 2019 20:24
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I think the really crazy initiation rites and annual mindashing for the Ministry agents can be easily reconciled: The PCs haven't done all of that, at least not yet. The shadowy figure who gives you assignments and might burn your cell for the good of the movement is a fully-initiated Minister. The PCs can be encouraged to work through the initiation steps, but that doesn't have to be a focus of the campaign. Just make sure all the PCs are committed revolutionaries, they don't also have to be Ministry cultists.
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Nov 24, 2019 21:05
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Also the gauges of how the revolution is progressing and why are things Spire could potentially really use. The ones from Comrades, I mean. The way I'm doing it instead is that there are a bunch of things that are waiting in the wings to spark serious civil war and confrontation beyond resistance; military revolt, attempted ethnic cleansing, etc etc and seeing where the story goes and which will be the first flashpoint that makes a point of no return for the city and the status quo. Along with factors pressuring the city towards those things, like rewriting the war with the gnolls into a grinding and painful trench war that's causing food and material shortages and risking mutiny or internal rebellion. But then my current game is aiming for 'WWI Russia sorta' and my aelfir are basically the East India Company rather than South Africa. With a bit of Revachol because Disco Elysium is brilliant. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Nov 24, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 21:18
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If I ever make a game *cue 5 minutes of laughter that turns both wheezing and desperate*, I'm stealing the tracks. Also, I think I understand why Mind traitor doesn't give you a choice: nobody has you over the barrel but you, as you have finally reached the point where your doubts over what you're doing have gone and turned into utter disgust for the rebellion. So it's only you doing it to yourself. In which case, you can shoot yourself or turn traitor (or run away, which is boring and not that suspenseful).
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Nov 24, 2019 21:27
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hyphz posted:I would be very interested to find out if Comrades' pathways or advancement systems represent the tendency for the establishment to co-opt revolutions by tying them into their societal advancement mechanisms. I do expect that in-universe histories would record Organization and/or Zealotry victories as "social movements" or "reforms" rather than "revolutions," but is it about getting what you're after or is it about performance?
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Nov 24, 2019 23:16
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So I've recently started running a game pretty much as-canon, although I'm trying to keep the weird paramilitary cult aspects of the ministry as much as I can - it helps a bit that none of the players have actually taken any ministry advances, and Better the Devil is sort of on my intended path. The way I see it, there's a certain amount of hatred in the Ministry for any authoritarian regime, and if you really push the nature of the aforementioned old drow house as being some entirely, objectively wrong, then it's not so much of a stretch. They're not going to plump for a new overlord just on account of them being drow, especially if they're likely to be as bad as the aelfir. At least the Aelfir are coming from a position of alien incomprehension. House Starys don't have that excuse.
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Nov 24, 2019 23:20
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LazyAngel posted:So I've recently started running a game pretty much as-canon, although I'm trying to keep the weird paramilitary cult aspects of the ministry as much as I can - it helps a bit that none of the players have actually taken any ministry advances, and Better the Devil is sort of on my intended path. The way I see it, there's a certain amount of hatred in the Ministry for any authoritarian regime, and if you really push the nature of the aforementioned old drow house as being some entirely, objectively wrong, then it's not so much of a stretch. They're not going to plump for a new overlord just on account of them being drow, especially if they're likely to be as bad as the aelfir. You can also frame House Starys as basically prepared to make friends with the aelfir, if you want to clear up that contradiction: They're in it to get specifically them on the same level as the aelfir, not end the Durance.
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Nov 24, 2019 23:24
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Nessus posted:I suspect that the Organization and Zealotry tracks could lead to an outcome like that, but I also get the feeling that Comrades is trying to teach you to think about the loving awesome and life-improving prizes you can win in the next two, five, ten years, rather than thinking about how it's all going to turn to poo poo (and need another round of Comrades) in thirty, forty, fifty years. I suspect that you're not meant to go strictly for one or the other. The Organization track's victory is the kind of thing that leads to CIA-sponsored-and-assisted military coup attempts against the newly voted in government, for example, and resisting that probably can't be done by Organization alone.
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Nov 25, 2019 00:04
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JcDent posted:If I ever make a game *cue 5 minutes of laughter that turns both wheezing and desperate*, I'm stealing the tracks. The tracks are great, I would definitely steal these too. Also, you bring up a good point, suicide as result of severe Mind fallout is actually pretty on point, but not included because - uh - people don't like to bring it up. Overall this game is pretty drat cool and thank you thread for talking about it.
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Nov 25, 2019 00:27
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Jumping ever so slightly ahead on Strata chat, I found the sample adventures super hit-and-miss. There were a few that seemed usable as-is, a few that seemed ok but where the writer had missed some important setting information from the core fluff, and a couple that just made me mad. The core fluff additions, though, are spectacular for spinning ideas off of.
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Nov 25, 2019 00:52
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About my only complaint about the actual fluff sections in Strata is I would've liked more on the material conditions of the drow working class in the Low Society section, but that's a minor quibble and it's not an exaggeration to say even if you have no use for pre-mades it's worth it for the High and Low Society sections alone. And the Inksmith, they rock.
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Nov 25, 2019 01:11
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Ithle01 posted:The tracks are great, I would definitely steal these too. Also, you bring up a good point, suicide as result of severe Mind fallout is actually pretty on point, but not included because - uh - people don't like to bring it up. Yeah, the bolded part is the same idea I had - you probably don't want to force a PC to kill themselves because that has IRL repercussions - but left it out because I'm a dumdum. Spire and Comrades are two storygames I would play, yes. Spire: mostly because the world is so firmly established and player-borne additions would be mostly minor. Comrades: I just want to eat the rich, ok?
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Nov 25, 2019 06:28
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Joe Slowboat posted:You can also frame House Starys as basically prepared to make friends with the aelfir, if you want to clear up that contradiction: They're in it to get specifically them on the same level as the aelfir, not end the Durance. Yup - they’d be happy to rule Spire and pay lip-service to the selfie there in order to use it as a power base to re-conquer the Home Nations. In a sense, they’re not part of the standard drow push for independence; they’re their own faction with quite separate goals.
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Nov 25, 2019 08:50
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I absolutely adore that “aelfir” gets autocorrected to “selfie.” They’re amazing antagonists on many levels.
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Nov 25, 2019 16:01
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S Elf ie
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Nov 25, 2019 16:52
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Si, Elf, si.
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Nov 25, 2019 18:43
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Raid on Resistance safehouse comes up empty-handed after all the Paladins break off the chase to post about their super cool and successful raid on Elf Instagram.
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Nov 25, 2019 18:50
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Nobilis 2E What's Left It turns out that about the entire second half of the book is really just an appendix. Where it isn't, it's just writing things we've already been told with twice the word count and purple prose. Like, I think everyone already got the idea of what Light, Dark, Heaven, Hell and Wild are, but here the book is, wasting another chapter telling us about it. There are some additional sections on how to stat up a Chancel or your Imperator, but I have to say, for a "rules light" game, I feel like I get more lost in Nobilis' rules than I do more conventional, rules "heavy" games. Maybe it's the excess of Proper Nouns, maybe it's the absolutely horrible editing/formatting of the pages, maybe it's the lack of a core mechanic which is instead replaced by a GM fiat where you're encouraged to hurt your players and waste their resources when they guess wrong on a solution, rather than having it fail-forward, fail-interesting or in general be anything other than a "no, you moron, you should have known better, sheesh."(and yes, that is pretty much how the writing presents it in given examples). So I'm going to throw in a few closing comments and then consider this review Completed, not Abandoned, because there isn't really anything else of any substance in the .PDF to talk about as far as I can tell from skimming it, it mostly just got close to putting me to sleep. So Nobilis, What Do I Think? I feel like I've generally done my best to be generous towards the game, praising the things I felt were actually well-thought-out or in any real sense evocative and making me want to tell a story or play a character. Unfortunately the game just didn't give me much to work with, the problem is that it feels like an Exalted Fair Folk/oMage crossover fanfic run through a purple prose generator and played as a freeform RPG on a circa 00's internet forum. The lack of limitations is what makes the game completely uninteresting. You start out at a divine power level and then throw huge miracles at other gods and they always succeed and then you write how cool it is that you won. It's supposed to be a modern occult sort of setting, but the power level and breadth of the world just makes Earth and the mundane reality seem uninteresting, rather than a backdrop where stuff happens. Now, personally, I can see the seed of a good game in there. It just requires deleting a hell of a lot of pointless cruft. Scrap the world ash, scrap half the factions(dark and hell are the same, light and heaven are the same, Wild is just Chaotic Neutral. The simple choice between "humanity needs to be protected, at any cost" vs "humanity needs to be free to gently caress up, at any cost" would be enough of a philosophical divide to drive internal conflicts), completely dismantle the whole mythic reality thing. Make mundane reality the only thing there is, and Earth the only world we deal with, so it actually feels like it matters. Just make it a straight game about power on Earth, and Earth's survival. Now there are stakes I actually give a poo poo about. Also maybe stop trying so drat hard to make the Powers and Imperators VAST AND INHUMAN because the next line is always "except they're really not their boss just says they have to be." Stories are more interesting, personal and driven if the player characters actually care about Joe Average on the street or fall for the girl who delivers the paper, than if they're EMOTIONLESS MEGAGODS who only fight for reality's survival because it's in their job description. The attempts at making things epic and magical just unmoor it from anything that has any sort of emotional connection or in any way at all makes me think "this is cool, this is worth fighting for." I have a way easier time giving a poo poo about trying to avoid the EXCRUCIAN DARKSHARD OF BAD killing those nice guys down at the corner store than the fact that he might chip away 0.1% of the colour in a butterfly's wings, thus making the world a less magical place. Heck, having a small selection of narrow, narrative powers like "can talk to plants," "can turn liquids into solids on touch" or "can curse someone to never tell the truth." and needing to use those to stymie someone whose power is "can stab you real loving dead" would be something I'd actually be totally hype for playing. It'd be a real fun creative exercise forcing you to do some lateral thinking. And theoretically you could probably run that with Nobilis, but it feels like the game actively scoffs at trying to run anything with anything approaching vaguely parseable stakes or limiting powers. So in short: It's a game that's sabotaged by its own power level and attempt to be WEIRD and EPIC. Keep it more down to Earth as a misfit superhero game and there's actually something playable in there.
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Nov 25, 2019 18:55
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It always confuses me when people try to describe Nobilis as "rules-light," because it isn't, like, at all.
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Nov 25, 2019 19:12
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PurpleXVI posted:Nobilis 2E So, basically, instead of playing Noblis, you should play Scion.
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Nov 25, 2019 19:16
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I don't think Nobilis and Scion are aiming for remotely the same things.
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Nov 25, 2019 19:17
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Rand Brittain posted:It always confuses me when people try to describe Nobilis as "rules-light," because it isn't, like, at all. Well, it tries to present itself as rules-light by having no dice-rolling or anything of the sort. But I agree, it sure has a shitload of goddamn numbers once you get past the first couple of chapters.
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Nov 25, 2019 19:21
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PurpleXVI posted:Well, it tries to present itself as rules-light by having no dice-rolling or anything of the sort. But I agree, it sure has a shitload of goddamn numbers once you get past the first couple of chapters. I... don’t think that follows at all? Diceless does not mean rules light, or vice versa. I’m not sure Nobilis has ever been presented as rules-light.
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Nov 25, 2019 19:48
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't think Nobilis and Scion are aiming for remotely the same things. It doesn't seem like it, but in truth, all I know about Nobilis comes from the above review (or portion of a review, anyway). I just recently got Scion with an eye toward leveraging the fact that it shares a system with Trinity to port some stuff from it into Trinity. Still the reviewer seemed to indicate that he wanted "gods, sort of" that weren't utterly divorced from human concerns and relationships. And also not boringly all-powerful. Scion seems like the way to go to get to that.
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Nov 25, 2019 21:27
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Scion 2E seems to be closer to what Purple was expecting Nobilis to be. (As was 1E really, the setting isn't hugely different beyond underlining three times the part that says ACTUALLY EVERYBODY KNOWS, ISH, AND IS COOL WITH IT.) My cheap japes aside I have been comparing what Purple has laid down with my experience with Sidereals, which I know Moran also largely created - presumably not the general outlines of 'guys in Heaven, fate/astrology theme, super karate, antagonistic to Solars but not reality itself' but most of the fine details. It has given me new appreciation for Sidereals because I feel that the sort of creative ferment I see in the corners here got packed into the Sidereals mold, and was able to rise into a delicious bread loaf (metaphorically speaking) rather than just kind of blobbing out into a giant flat dome. I wish they'd given her Abyssals!
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Nov 25, 2019 23:16
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Re: Spire, is this how that one Inksmith ability works? https://twitter.com/gapingmaws/status/1123408588456640513
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Nov 26, 2019 02:16
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Ronwayne posted:Re: Spire, is this how that one Inksmith ability works? Completely and explicitly. The only thing is it doesn't have to be an elf. As long as the being that busts down the door has a gun and the gun is loaded, it happens.
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Nov 26, 2019 02:21
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I find Spire a little weird in that it seems to imply the high elves literally feel emotion and think in ways that are very far removed to the point of being alien from the other species of people in setting. They have to take a special drug to feel sadness and the descriptions of them in the section about their stronghold in Amaranth is that they cannot even feel empathy. While it doesn’t make them monsters to be destroyed, it’s odd because I cannot tell if this is just a drow perspective, if this is just the result of aelfir culture destroying their capacity to relate to other people, or if they really are that removed from what seems to be the more typical emotions that drow and humans have.
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Nov 26, 2019 09:21
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The book does say to decide if any of that is true, or if that's just how the drow see their masters. I personally prefer to go with the latter, and to explain the aelfir's behavior with immense privilege and all that stuff about how their society is hugely atomized and they're basically all conditioned to try to avoid showing any emotional vulnerability or ever being direct or genuinely intimate with one another. For one, it's easier to write. For two, it helps highlight that the issue with them is that they're a massive colonialist power, because it makes their weirdness come in part out of the culturally imposed need for domination and supremacy. For three, it also then makes it much easier for the players to potentially turn some of them and have agents on the inside. E: Heck, one suggested campaign model is that the aelfir's younger generation considers the Durance an embarrassment and genuinely wants to change things for the better, but the literally undying aelfir boomers have a deathgrip on power and have to be overthrown before anything gets better. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 26, 2019 13:23
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I don't hold a candle for the Correctability of Elf/Orc, but I can't say no to a campaign that sticks it to colonialist empires and/or boomers.
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Nov 26, 2019 17:50
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