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hostile apostle posted:Apples and oranges, you can still play your ten year old PC games on your brand new PC with new graphics card without the developer patching the game can't you? That is VERY loving recent. And that mostly has to do with Microsoft doing a ton of work to make sure Windows is fully backwards compatible. Google is running their own Linux based OS with Stadia, you know what android is? A linux based OS. so no comparing it directly to the play store with the newest phone is exactly what should be happening.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:44
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hostile apostle posted:Apples and oranges, you can still play your ten year old PC games on your brand new PC with new graphics card without the developer patching the game can't you? Because it's not obfuscated through Stadia's system, which is a couple extra layers to contend with that CAN break compatibility.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:45
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Klyith posted:lol I bet it has to do that update every single time you play, because patches applied to to the game in the VM go away when the VM is destroyed. You are correct.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:48
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pixaal posted:That is VERY loving recent. And that mostly has to do with Microsoft doing a ton of work to make sure Windows is fully backwards compatible. Being "Linux based" has nothing to do with this. It's a conscious choice for Apple and Google to break compatibility with their previous APIs.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:51
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Lambert posted:Being "Linux based" has nothing to do with this. It's a conscious choice for Apple and Google to break compatibility with their previous APIs. The argument was PC is backwards compatible (it hasn't always been, remember 98 to XP and not being able to reuse most software? What about XP to vista? Remember the headaches with 10? There were less with 10 but they still existed!). Saying PC is backwards compatible so is Stadia it's on a PC is meaningless. Both Stadia and Android are made by Google, and are Linux based. You really think Google is going to play this differently? This is about Google, not about Linux. The fact that it's Linux does not mean it's backwards compatible (it also doesn't mean that it isn't, but that takes effort on Google's part).
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Nov 27, 2019 16:53
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Evergreen comment:hostile apostle posted:Count me as the idiot who spend $129 on a $70 chromecast ultra and a $70 controller to play RDR2 (which I have not played yet) in actual 4K 60fps and not some upscaled fake 4k on a $350 PS4 Pro which I don't have. Google Stadia: Count me as the idiot
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Nov 27, 2019 16:55
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hostile apostle posted:Apples and oranges, you can still play your ten year old PC games on your brand new PC with new graphics card without the developer patching the game can't you? Yes, but that has nothing to do with Stadia offering the same functionality. Are you suggesting that any game I purchase on Stadia will work as intended in ten years?
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Nov 27, 2019 17:09
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I have Stadia, it works for me 100% fine with 77 MBits/s using Chrome with the adblock enabled and even other stream in other tab. Yesterday I played for 2 hours Destiny 2, and was great.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:10
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hostile apostle posted:Apples and oranges, you can still play your ten year old PC games on your brand new PC with new graphics card without the developer patching the game can't you? lmao I bought the shtick for awhile but this is where you lost me
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Nov 27, 2019 17:13
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Tei posted:I have Stadia, it works for me 100% fine with 77 MBits/s using Chrome with the adblock enabled and even other stream in other tab. Serious question, not concern trolling: have you played Destiny 2 on another format, or is this your first time? How would you compare the experience if so?
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Nov 27, 2019 17:31
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Serious question, not concern trolling: have you played Destiny 2 on another format, or is this your first time? How would you compare the experience if so? I play often on Xbox One S and a PS4 pro with SSD. Have 759 hours on Destiny 2 / ~2000 hours on Destiny 1. The experience is good. My setup is far from optimal, but is okay to do light-PvE or light-PvP content. The game load fast and thats a improvement from even my PS4 with SSD. I would not use this for endgame PvE or PvP, probably would have to play with a wired connection instead of wifi.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:35
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Tei posted:I play often on Xbox One S and a PS4 pro with SSD. Have 759 hours on Destiny 2 / ~2000 hours on Destiny 1. PvP would only be against other people on Stadia, is it actually unplayable, or just a disadvantage so not a big deal if everyone in the room has it? Mind you I'm not the target audience, but I have a fascination with interesting tech ideas. Google has a lot of them, they also abandon a lot of them. I still strongly believe that this is going to be mismanaged and crash and burn. pixaal fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 17:37
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pixaal posted:PvP would only be against other people on Stadia, is it actually unplayable, or just a disadvantage so not a big deal if everyone in the room has it? I don't understand the question. Stadia have full support for mouse and keyboard. Some people in my PvP lobby was maybe with mouse and keyboard. I was playing with the PS4 controller. I was also playing with wifi, while some of these was playing with a wire connection. I had fun!. We won, but I was the worst on my team. I may make this platform my main one for trash PvP content like Iron Banner where losing or winning don't matter much.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:42
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Gave Stadia another shake from work via Destiny 2 and it looks like it might be working better now, more like Geforce Now's lag. Interesting. Will have to try again with my home setup and controller since that's where the lag was at its worst.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:42
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I think Stadia use better shaders than PS4. I have to check it, but when you get the Markov chain with Montecarlo, I believe in PS4 the whole weapon is illuminated with "milk". On Stadia only the front of the weapon, ... its a much better done effect. It suspect the PS4 version of the game uses a shader that is cheaper for the hardware. One the whole Destiny 2 looks super purty on Stadia.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:46
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univbee posted:Gave Stadia another shake from work via Destiny 2 and it looks like it might be working better now, more like Geforce Now's lag. Interesting. Will have to try again with my home setup and controller since that's where the lag was at its worst. Your work internet is probably a dedicated fibre line. What do you have at home?
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Nov 27, 2019 17:46
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Tei posted:I play often on Xbox One S and a PS4 pro with SSD. Have 759 hours on Destiny 2 / ~2000 hours on Destiny 1. Gotcha. Load times are pretty bad on Destiny 2, even on my PS4 Pro, so I can see that being an improvement. (Although they're really great on my SSD PC, which is where I'll play Destiny if I ever get back into it again.) How about the visual quality? The video compression looked pretty bad on the videos I saw.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Your work internet is probably a dedicated fibre line. What do you have at home? My home internet is also Fibre, and better than work since it's not shared with hundreds of others. My issue seems to stem more from however the controller is interfacing, because it works well on PC.
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Nov 27, 2019 17:49
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pixaal posted:That is VERY loving recent. And that mostly has to do with Microsoft doing a ton of work to make sure Windows is fully backwards compatible. Ehhhh, I think any direct comparisons are difficult. Linux and android are not the same thing, and the reasons that phone apps go out of compatibility on android has nothing to do with the linux underneath. It's all about the pace of hardware change, and changes that google makes to the app layers which are android-specific. Linux, as a whole, is insanely backwards-compatible. Moreso than windows. Linux games may not be as good though, since they often rely on translation layers or are barely functional ports in the first place. Games from ten years ago on windows are no problem because the hardware and OS changes over the last 10 years have been pretty slow. The next 10 years won't be any faster. The last time that games have gone out of date in a decade was trying to play stuff from the mid-90s on win7.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:08
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Rotten Red Rod posted:How about the visual quality? The video compression looked pretty bad on the videos I saw. The image was an improvement over PS4. Did not had any problem, except when my laptop was trying to use the 2GHz network instead of 5GHz one.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:11
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Klyith posted:Linux and android are not the same thing
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Nov 27, 2019 18:22
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hostile apostle posted:There are not a ton of games which support Vulkan today: It's a good thing literally nobody has ever complained about the graphics in the Stadia version of RDR2, and that it actually runs in 4k 60fps. Otherwise, your argument would be totally stupid. To counter your argument - Stadia doesn't have a single killer app. It doesn't have a single game that is only available for Stadia that is miles ahead of what we have now. It has... Gylt? A game that would look fine on the XBox 360. Sure, not everything is going to be better, but Google just rushed out the door with nothing that says "here's why Stadia will matter in 5 years."
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Nov 27, 2019 18:26
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pixaal posted:I know this, maybe I'm not saying it clear enough. Google is the common factor, not Linux. I believe that Google will intentionally break compatibility. You can sell new games when your users can't play their old games! Doing that would be suicide for their platform, even if it was doing great to begin with. Google isn't that dumb. If it was the netflix model they could totally to it, but not with this dumb buy-in system they've chosen. Though maybe people 10 years from now will feel more comfortable with everything they "own" actually being a long term rental that evaporates arbitrarily.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:40
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Klyith posted:Games from ten years ago on windows are no problem because the hardware and OS changes over the last 10 years have been pretty slow. The next 10 years won't be any faster. The last time that games have gone out of date in a decade was trying to play stuff from the mid-90s on win7. Tons of things change, but Microsoft retains a sizable compatibility layer. For 32 bit applications, for example, Microsoft has an x86 emulator called WOW64 that transparently handles executing them.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:44
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I am completely aware that I am not a deep industry insider or anything but this does seem to be a strange time to enter this business. The compute power has been there for years but the rest of the technology wasn't, and it really feels like we're about to hit a period where the compute power [b]won't[b] be there. For years games have been largely single threaded, and are only recently taking full advantage of multiple cores. The next generation of consoles are both sporting an 8-core AMD APU & targeting 4k. We spent an entire generation with consoles holding back graphics and it feels like that dam is about to burst. CPUs were also pretty stagnant for a while, but AMD is kicking rear end there as well and i think we're also hitting the point where a processor isn't a 7 year investment, like all of the people still gaming on 2500k and 3750k chips. This isn't about compatibility, I just think this business is about to get super expensive. It's not that hardware is going to advance, they're just going to start actually making games for and on modern hardware even when developing console-first.
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Nov 27, 2019 18:51
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Klyith posted:lol I bet it has to do that update every single time you play, because patches applied to to the game in the VM go away when the VM is destroyed. That is a 2K problem, not an issue with the VM technology. Docker allows you to build images with your software. Then it allows you to to tag the images you built with a version number. Next time you run the software it will automatically fetch the latest version. I guess 2k is too busy filling the game with microtransactions to give a drat about using the proper way to distribute a software in the cloud
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Nov 27, 2019 18:54
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Tei posted:The image was an improvement over PS4. The image was an IMPROVEMENT over PS4 (pro, presumably)? In what way?
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Nov 27, 2019 19:05
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pixaal posted:That is VERY loving recent. And that mostly has to do with Microsoft doing a ton of work to make sure Windows is fully backwards compatible. Do you know where I can read up on this? I've got a copy of Theme Park World I've been itching to play again, but last time I tried on Windows 10 it didn't do poo poo.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:22
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Kin posted:Do you know where I can read up on this? I've got a copy of Theme Park World I've been itching to play again, but last time I tried on Windows 10 it didn't do poo poo. I was not saying it was perfect by any stretch. I was replying to a post saying PC gaming is backwards compatible by nature so Stadia would be too. As you can see, it very clearly is not. I was also meaning they put a lot of work to make sure 10 was compatible with windows Vista / 7 software. Anything before they moved to NT is usually not going to run.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:26
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Kin posted:Do you know where I can read up on this? I've got a copy of Theme Park World I've been itching to play again, but last time I tried on Windows 10 it didn't do poo poo. Play the vastly better Rollercoaster Tycoon 1 or 2 instead. Or buy it pre-patched from Gog: https://www.gog.com/game/theme_park Or search for a compatibility patch/installation instructions
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Nov 27, 2019 19:26
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Lambert posted:Tons of things change, but Microsoft retains a sizable compatibility layer. For 32 bit applications, for example, Microsoft has an x86 emulator called WOW64 that transparently handles executing them. Not Stadia-related, but look at this then look at Apple, who are actively removing 32bit from MacOS, with all the broken and nonfunctional programs that resulted in.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:29
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limaCAT posted:That is a 2K problem, not an issue with the VM technology. Docker allows you to build images with your software. Then it allows you to to tag the images you built with a version number. Next time you run the software it will automatically fetch the latest version. Yeah, sports and some other games often have in-game-UI updates which are separate from the patch the game installs normally through your console UI or Steam or whatever. Usually with sports its for roster updates but I think some gameplay tweaks can find their way there too. Destiny 2 and Borderlands 3 also do this, so this should be fun for when Stadia gets going. Lambert posted:Tons of things change, but Microsoft retains a sizable compatibility layer. For 32 bit applications, for example, Microsoft has an x86 emulator called WOW64 that transparently handles executing them. They do the same thing for 16-bit applications but only on the 32-bit versions of Windows. So on the 64-bit versions of Windows there's no way to run a 16-bit executable, which includes a lot of older game installers (although not necessarily the games themselves). This results in some weirdness like some official-but-deprecated Microsoft software can require some weird digging to find 32-bit versions of them if they exist at all, like Microsoft used to have some sort of index card software and it still existed in like Windows XP x64 or some such. univbee fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 27, 2019 |
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Nov 27, 2019 19:29
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Klyith posted:Doing that would be suicide for their platform, even if it was doing great to begin with. Google isn't that dumb. If it was the netflix model they could totally to it, but not with this dumb buy-in system they've chosen. Google isn't an entity with a unified purpose. It's a massive and chaotic corporate organism with some kind of strategy exerted from the top, but the behavior of individual business units is unpredictable, and the units themselves may change. What I'm trying to say with rather bad metaphors: You may be right or the other person may be right. Whoever is in charge of Stadia at some point of time in the future may be just that dumb, or may be a competent person. Perhaps they will have some completely different goals, which require breaking existing games. We don't know. Google does not have a track record of being a stable platform with stable services. On the other hand, I am confident they won't break anything but ancient and/or very niche games and they will issue refunds if they do decide to break something. So I wouldn't really worry about that part when deciding on trying out Stadia or not. It's safe to buy games from them. I even think they will eventually offer some kind of download option for purchased games (perhaps running in a weird VM or docker image, who knows). The decision on whether to throw money at Stadia should be based on how lucky you feel about your connectivity to the servers and your personal tolerance for various kinds of latency and instability. If you're on the fence, just wait until it's possible to (properly) test for free and make a decision then. For some people, streaming will be great. For others, it will be impossible to enjoy. The interesting part is that it's very difficult to predict before trying it out.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:31
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TEN POINT SEVEN MOTHERFUCKING TERAFLOPS
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Nov 27, 2019 19:34
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I think it's crazy that people would choose "more pixels than 1080p" over responsiveness and not having lag spikes and shifting image/animation quality. You get more pixels than something that already looks great but lose on everything else, it makes no sense. More likely, nobody is actually making that choice and stadia users are people who are rigidly opposed to owning a console for whatever reason.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:46
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No Wave posted:More likely, nobody is actually making that choice and stadia users are people who are rigidly opposed to owning a console for whatever reason. And that's fine, honestly. There's a group of people this is perfect for. It's just clearly not as big as Google seems to think it is. Stadia is a neat (and flawed) curiosity. It's not the "disruptive" new wave of gaming.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:49
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Yeah I'll run some games in 4K locally on my PC if I want eye-searing sharpness at the expense of framerate, but streaming 4K isn't really close to the same experience, even when it isn't cheating the resolution to begin with.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:50
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No Wave posted:I think it's crazy that people would choose "more pixels than 1080p" over responsiveness and not having lag spikes and shifting image/animation quality. You get more pixels than something that already looks great but lose on everything else, it makes no sense. Every person I've seen so far with a Stadia clearly has enough money for a decent gaming PC and probably already has one. So far its uptake seems to be just nerds who will try any dumb tech poo poo.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:51
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univbee posted:Gave Stadia another shake from work via Destiny 2 and it looks like it might be working better now, more like Geforce Now's lag. Introducing Stadia! If you can get it working, it's almost as good as our competition's free beta!
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Nov 27, 2019 19:52
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Rotten Red Rod posted:The image was an IMPROVEMENT over PS4 (pro, presumably)? In what way? Better shaders. I imagine the PS4 shaders are easy on the hardware and look worse.
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Nov 27, 2019 19:56
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