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I mean the first order comes back because Disney needs to make some bad guys for the good guys to fight and sell toys for. Nothing in the new series means anything, it's like the old cartoons in the 80s; it's there to sell product, it's just an ad.
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Nov 29, 2019 01:28
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Grapplejack posted:I mean the first order comes back because Disney needs to make some bad guys for the good guys to fight and sell toys for. Nothing in the new series means anything, it's like the old cartoons in the 80s; it's there to sell product, it's just an ad. Okay but this isn't the interesting answer, all story decisions can be answered with "Because it makes money" what's the Watsonian answer though and does it work?
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Nov 29, 2019 01:32
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CmdrKing posted:With the obvious disclaimer that Rise of Skywalker could blindside us entirely? Force Awakens is basically a story about how the remnants of a fascist movement, if allowed to stick around, will blossom into full on fascism again. That would have been a great way to open the new trilogy, but they didn't really do any of this. The First Order wasn't introduced as the downtrodden remanent of the Empire who is slowly regaining support and power, but as an already full fledged galactic super power that actually has managed to build a more powerful weapon than the Empire every did and destroys the entire New Republic in one scene. You really can't overstate how much JJ Abraham managed to kneecap the entirety of Disne'y Star Wars because he went for a boring as remake of A New Hope as the establishment of an entire new trilogy. And as a result, the foundation of this new story is a half-baked rehash without backstory. edit: Like, a lot of people didn't like TLJ, but I thought it's biggest problem was that it had do continue the lame rear end story of TFA. Imagine Rian Johnson had directed the Force Awakens. Would probably been weird as gently caress, it certainly would have given us a way more interesting status quo! e X fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 01:33
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NovemberMike posted:Right, that's the sort of thing I said that I don't give a poo poo about. I'm talking about a basic, coherent, in universe thread that ties it all together. Oh the boring answer. That's easy. So after a pretty crushing defeat of the main Imperial Navy at Jakku, the New Republic massively demilitarized. Remember, the Galaxy being militarized so heavily was a historical aberration that had only started during the Clone Wars, a mere 27 years before the formation of the New Republic. Because of this, the surviving Imperial officers were left to flee to various fringe/mining worlds and rebuild, and their kids later became the core of the First Order once they had the resources to actually be a military force again. Like that's why an incompetent poo poo-brain like Hux is in charge, sheer nepotism and loyalty to nazi ideals. Anyway after TFA, since they blew up the capitol and most of the New Republic fleet, they basically pulled a "we have star destroyers and can blow up planets (as far as you know) and there's nothing you can do about it, we're in charge now". But being nazis, they're laughably incompetent and manage to change leaders with an internal power struggle HOURS later, and that's roughly where we're at now. The trouble here is you have to think about them as sequels, and import all that knowledge of how the galaxy has changed throughout the previous six films, in order to correctly infer that all this happened because our pal JJ didn't take 5 fuckin' minutes to establish all this in dialog. Like, you definitely can figure all this out from on-screen evidence, but most people aren't going to bother unless they're already way too into the Star Warses. Edit: e X posted:That would have been a great way to open the new trilogy, but they didn't really do any of this. The First Order wasn't introduced as the downtrodden remanent of the Empire who is slowly regaining support and power, but as an already full fledged galactic super power that actually has managed to build a more powerful weapon than the Empire every did and destroys the entire New Republic in one scene. Eh, the Empire fell like 30 years ago, they were left completely ignored with control of some unnamed number of worlds after that. They just kinda skipped the 1930s part of history and went straight to 1939 if you will. As noted above though I totally agree that JJ's damned mystery box nonsense is a much bigger problem for the sequels than what TLJ was doing, because not telling people the basic status quo of the universe in addition to pretending the histories and identities of major characters were ~So Important~ is causing all kinds of problems in terms of confusing people about why things are happening. CmdrKing fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 01:47
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Dawgstar posted:Watching the Clone Wars cartoon was something of a revelation. Here's the Anakin we've been told about for years, and not the weird doofus who hates sand and has to labor under Lucas' direction. There's even a nice bit where Ahsoka has this crush on a dude and Anakin's like "Yeah, I get that" and doesn't tell her it's wrong but more to keep focus. yeah and him and obi wan have cool adventures and gently caress poo poo up. i kinda wish these had been made BEFORE ros but here we are. e X posted:That would have been a great way to open the new trilogy, but they didn't really do any of this. The First Order wasn't introduced as the downtrodden remanent of the Empire who is slowly regaining support and power, but as an already full fledged galactic super power that actually has managed to build a more powerful weapon than the Empire every did and destroys the entire New Republic in one scene. i think they both have their issues. TFA is what star wars needed to jump start the movies again and it has some cool if not wholely original set ups. the issue is we dont have a good idea of how well the galaxy is set up. so than we have TLJ and rian tries to do his own thing and kinda pull of a Kotor 2 with mixed sucess. he ruins finns arc and the movies themes before plot set up hurt it somewhat but some of the twists i genuinely liked though JJ mysterie boxes were smashed in the process and the fanbase got fragmented.
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Nov 29, 2019 01:52
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Weird enough, I also had the random thought that the new sequels should have been based around somebody finding the Star Forge from KotOR, because it would have fit the story arc much better. Or they could have just stuck with the more traditional Imperial Remnant idea and fleshed out the New Republic before blowing it up. Whatever, I'm setting my hopes low for Rise of the Skywalker and bracing for the wave of hot takes.
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Nov 29, 2019 01:53
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CmdrKing posted:Oh the boring answer. That's easy. this. also alot of the imperials joined the senate and the senate basically went back to being a shithole of corruption and partisan poo poo. as you can see from mandalorian, the outer rim and wild space are basicaly left to rot because the New republic doesnt have the resources to do poo poo about the various imperial dicks floating around the galaxy.
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Nov 29, 2019 01:55
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CmdrKing posted:Oh the boring answer. That's easy. You're still missing it. I'm not talking about a boring recap of some stuff the movies didn't talk about, I'm talking about themes, both for the setting and the individual characters. Quite a few of the problems come from JJ Abrams but some of it is Rian missing the class on Chekov's gun in school and not actually finishing a bunch of storylines he should have resolved.
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Nov 29, 2019 01:57
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Weird enough, I also had the random thought that the new sequels should have been based around somebody finding the Star Forge from KotOR, because it would have fit the story arc much better. Oh I fully expect JJ to take a boring predictable "don't worry fans, we're sorry about TLJ" route and go "No actually, Rey's parentage is important, she really is a Skywalker or whatever, Kylo Ren was just lying" and undo every other interesting thing that TLJ did.
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Nov 29, 2019 01:59
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NovemberMike posted:You're still missing it. I'm not talking about a boring recap of some stuff the movies didn't talk about, I'm talking about themes, both for the setting and the individual characters. Quite a few of the problems come from JJ Abrams but some of it is Rian missing the class on Chekov's gun in school and not actually finishing a bunch of storylines he should have resolved. well its because he cared more about doing his theme thing than making the story work and thats what annoys me, i get what he tried to do and i think enough of it fits but the casino planet and the poe plot slow the movie down to much. that being said i liked TLJ and TFA well enough. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 01:59
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Mischalaniouse posted:Oh I fully expect JJ to take a boring predictable "don't worry fans, we're sorry about TLJ" route and go "No actually, Rey's parentage is important, she really is a Skywalker or whatever, Kylo Ren was just lying" and undo every other interesting thing that TLJ did. nah, my guess is she is gonna be another anakin(force Jesus/immaculate force conception), some dumb trump card sheeve had cooked up if he ever popped his clogs. but instead of kind slave lady, her parents were drunks who died in puddle somewhere after dropping her of at simon peggs sand lot.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:02
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Yeah, I really liked what TLJ tried to do with its themes, even if it fumbled a lot, and as soon as I heard the Emperor was back I lost all faith in the movie. Which kind of sucks. Maybe it'll at least be fun. I don't like a lot of RLM's takes on TLJ, but their bit about "Finn, don't throw your life away out of hate, because only love will win...except for that time an hour ago when Holdo hosed up most of the Empire's fleet with her suicide charge, that was cool."
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Nov 29, 2019 02:02
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Rian fully understands Chekov's gun, he just doesn't respect JJ's box.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:05
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Yeah, I really liked what TLJ tried to do with its themes, even if it fumbled a lot, and as soon as I heard the Emperor was back I lost all faith in the movie. Which kind of sucks. Maybe it'll at least be fun. i want to like rose but idk, she just doesnt do anything for me and her character feels like writers voice box to exposit the theme over and over again. i am just pissed that they made finn kinda of coward again. also i did like that snoke was just a giant poo poo head who had some force powers and could trick space nazis into following.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:06
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Ghostlight posted:Rian fully understands Chekov's gun, he just doesn't respect JJ's box. yeah and i was fine with that. JJ was gonna go to obvious with it all and i am glad Rian smashed it. i just feel like the movie could have been alot better and coherent.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:06
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NovemberMike posted:You're still missing it. I'm not talking about a boring recap of some stuff the movies didn't talk about, I'm talking about themes, both for the setting and the individual characters. Quite a few of the problems come from JJ Abrams but some of it is Rian missing the class on Chekov's gun in school and not actually finishing a bunch of storylines he should have resolved. "A desperate desire to return to 'normal' allowed the empire to rise again a generation later" isn't a theme for the setting? You're arguing that Finn didnt' have a character arc? That speculating on Rey or Kylo's story arcs is premature because their story isn't done? Mind, I'm of the opinion that killing Snoke without ceremony or giving the slightest bit of a poo poo what his "deal" was was the literal best decision that could have been made with the character, so I don't much use for calling it some sort of screenwriting sin. So I'm going to assume there's a great gap in our values on that front.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:08
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I find it amusing that The Mandalorian managed to contextualize the state of the galaxy post-Return of the Jedi better than either Force Awakens or Last Jedi and it did so with an offhand line. Carl Weathers talks about how the Outer Rim is full of ex Imperial Warlords and the New Republic either can't or won't do anything beyond the core worlds, hence why imperial currency is still being used in the space boonies. It's certainly a more depressing vision of the galaxy, but the territory beyond the Mid Rim being all these warlord fiefdoms makes the First Order's strength a lot more believable.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:11
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https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/1200212592691539971 ah, jenny encountering the casual misogyny of mainstream sports. on the other hand, The Cowboys
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Nov 29, 2019 02:18
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I believe the politically correct term is Minotaur.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:39
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Mischalaniouse posted:Oh I fully expect JJ to take a boring predictable "don't worry fans, we're sorry about TLJ" route and go "No actually, Rey's parentage is important, she really is a Skywalker or whatever, Kylo Ren was just lying" and undo every other interesting thing that TLJ did. I really don't expect this at all from JJ, because what Rian pulled off with both "Rey is nobody" and "Snoke gets ganked" is the kind of thing JJ has been trying to do since Lost (killing off Jack in the pilot, and again wanting to kill off Poe Dameron in the opening of TFA). I could be wrong, but I think he would have been really excited with that development and won't walk it back.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:44
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Getting some extremely normal ads on youtube today
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Nov 29, 2019 02:44
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Just dropping in to say that it’s kind of nice that none of the usual youtube reactionaries have said anything about the new Watchmen series, which I thought would really get them screeching. I guess they only care about star wars.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:46
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I want HK-47 to make a return in the new Star Wars, everything will be literally perfect if that happens.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:50
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Just dropping in to say that it’s kind of nice that none of the usual youtube reactionaries have said anything about the new Watchmen series, which I thought would really get them screeching. I guess they only care about star wars. TBF, people only really latch on if the stuff is actually bad. The new Mad Max was literally women crushing the patriarchy and there were five people that complained but it never gained traction because it's a great movie. You see a lot of people bitching about Ghostbusters or the new Star Wars or whatever because there's actually something wrong there (even if a lot of the complaints don't get it right).
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Nov 29, 2019 02:57
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Acute Grill posted:I believe the politically correct term is Minotaur. Asterios got a raw deal. Born of rape, abused all his life, forced to eat people to live by his family, and then murdered by an rear end in a top hat greek who would later murder his sister.
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Nov 29, 2019 02:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:Asterios got a raw deal. Born of rape, abused all his life, forced to eat people to live by his family, and then murdered by an rear end in a top hat greek who would later murder his sister. How many works depict Asterious positively? 
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Nov 29, 2019 03:00
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Mr Phillby posted:Getting some extremely normal ads on youtube today
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Nov 29, 2019 03:02
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NovemberMike posted:TBF, people only really latch on if the stuff is actually bad. The new Mad Max was literally women crushing the patriarchy and there were five people that complained but it never gained traction because it's a great movie. You see a lot of people bitching about Ghostbusters or the new Star Wars or whatever because there's actually something wrong there (even if a lot of the complaints don't get it right). Oh but mad max attracted the hatred of the skull man himself right at the start of his spiral into total obscurity, and it was notable enough for people to do gags about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_X0TdbdmQ
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Nov 29, 2019 03:08
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Raenir Salazar posted:How many works depict Asterious positively? Fate/Grand Order, a gacha mobile game spin-off of the Fate anime franchise, has basically the only positive depiction of him I can think of.
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Nov 29, 2019 03:08
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Raenir Salazar posted:How many works depict Asterious positively? Asterius is the persona of Shadow Labrys in the Persona 4 fighting game spinoff, and they both have a weird redemption arc in the sequel. But beyond that being Persona there is a reason Asterius is used and the main thrust of the game is sympathy for her. So... kiiiinda?
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Nov 29, 2019 03:16
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Just dropping in to say that it’s kind of nice that none of the usual youtube reactionaries have said anything about the new Watchmen series, which I thought would really get them screeching. I guess they only care about star wars. There's been a little - I want to say TheQuartering did something - but that doesn't amount to a hill of beans like saying SJWs hate The Mandalorian or whatever.
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Nov 29, 2019 03:27
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You know star wars and marvel chat here is usually terrible because almost everyone who talks at length about those has semen instead of cerebrospinal fluids but i am in compelte awe at how this one guy talking about moviebob is singlehandedly worse than them and the bombing of dresden combined im truly impressed
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Nov 29, 2019 03:31
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Gonk. Droid.
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Nov 29, 2019 03:43
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ArfJason posted:You know star wars and marvel chat here is usually terrible because almost everyone who talks at length about those has semen instead of cerebrospinal fluids but i am in compelte awe at how this one guy talking about moviebob is singlehandedly worse than them and the bombing of dresden combined im truly impressed You're a good poster Arf, I will do my best to improve to meet your standards. 
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Nov 29, 2019 03:52
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Just dropping in to say that it’s kind of nice that none of the usual youtube reactionaries have said anything about the new Watchmen series, which I thought would really get them screeching. I guess they only care about star wars. I mean, they made the literal neo-nazi KKK symbol 'hooded justice' character who was used to illustrate that in a non-fantastic world we HAD 'masked vigilantes' running around patrolling neighborhoods for 'safety' and they were called the loving KKK and there's no reason to think any modern incarnation would be different into a black person, and half the conflict in the story is about the KKK and neo nazis being a psy-op to keep the oppressed whites down so I think a lot of those people just are enjoying and agreeing with this garbage fire of a show. Like, they thought 'let's make the character Night Owl literally said pledged allegiance to Hitler into a black person' was diversity and powerful and our absolutely brainbroken pop culture media critique industry is agreeing so I'm sure The Quartering popped a boner.
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Nov 29, 2019 04:00
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Raenir Salazar posted:You're a good poster Arf, I will do my best to improve to meet your standards. Every single person in this thread thinks youre a dumbfuck
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Nov 29, 2019 04:25
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ArfJason posted:Every single person in this thread thinks youre a dumbfuck I wish them all only the best.
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Nov 29, 2019 04:27
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Cool now stfu.
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Nov 29, 2019 04:28
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ArfJason posted:Cool now stfu. I appreciate your helpful advice, though I may not be able to follow it. I agree, less is more. And I shall strive for less, in order to be more.
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Nov 29, 2019 04:33
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ArfJason posted:Every single person in this thread thinks youre a dumbfuck i dont think they are dumb gently caress. just weirdly empathetic to people who don't need it or deserve it. sexpig by night posted:I mean, they made the literal neo-nazi KKK symbol 'hooded justice' character who was used to illustrate that in a non-fantastic world we HAD 'masked vigilantes' running around patrolling neighborhoods for 'safety' and they were called the loving KKK and there's no reason to think any modern incarnation would be different into a black person, and half the conflict in the story is about the KKK and neo nazis being a psy-op to keep the oppressed whites down so I think a lot of those people just are enjoying and agreeing with this garbage fire of a show. um what? i like the show and i like that it changes poo poo up a ton and what the gently caress have you been watch, the show is super "racists and such are evil loving scum" type deal. plus i don't take nite owls 1 stuff as gospel even before the show. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Nov 29, 2019 |
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Nov 29, 2019 04:33
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