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bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019

I bought a motherboard specifically with WiFi because my gaming PC was extremely difficult to run a cable to, and I figured onboard with a bomb-rear end quality antenna would do it. Nope, packet loss to online games. So I bought a powerline ethernet adapter and got ~80-120mbps LAN speeds... but still packet loss like I was on WiFi to the Rocket League servers. Then I ran a cable. :negative:

So if you want it for gaming I can only softly recommend a powerline, if you want it for not gaming my god they are magic.


Faded Mars posted:

So I splurged and picked up a refurb Dell/Alienware RTX 2080 Ti for significantly under retail. It is a blower card but with some power management the noise is bearable. But now I think the rest of my PC is holding it back.

I'm in Canada.

I'm currently running:

Intel i5 6600K OC'd to 4.4 GHz
16gb DDR4 @ 2700 MHz
ASRock Pro4s motherboard
1440p/144hz monitor

I see that the recommended build is a 3600, but from what I can tell the 3600 isn't an amazing upgrade from the 6600K. I mostly do gaming, some image editing on my machine.

Right now with all the Black Friday/Cyber Monday crap I've been eyeing a new setup. I'm looking at a Ryzen 3700x, Tomahawk MAX motherboard, and 16GB of 3600 RAM for about $700 CAD. I could probably recoup about $300 from selling my current CPU/mobo/RAM. Would this be a substantial upgrade or am I better off along a different path?

hey this is basically me, I have a way below retail 2080ti blower that works great & is loud as heck. I'm running a Ryzen 2600 so all in all we're not too far apart, and are both definitely CPU limited.

What I'm doing is straight up waiting for Zen3. With a 144hz monitor I know I'm not fully stretching out this 2080ti but it does good enough with FreeSync (Jedi Fallen Order is super smooth and playable on Ultra/Ultra) and as you noticed the current chips are sort of underwhelming bumps in gaming. With the new 8 core consoles around the corner... I think I'm going to hang on to my 2600 for another year and pray AMD sticks on AM4 for one more cycle. It just doesn't feel worth the upgrade right now, and I wouldn't have to buy a motherboard on top of it.

bus hustler fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 30, 2019

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Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

For all you folks with blower 2080 Tis - if you're feeling handy, the Arctic Accelero Extreme III or Extreme IV are just $50 and $65 respectively and should be significantly better than a blower. The Extreme III comes with VRM/VRAM heatsinks and thermal tape, while the Extreme IV has a finned backplate for cooling the VRM/VRAM (during installation you'll need to put thermal pads on the back of the card in the correct locations and cut out gaps in the plastic protective film).

If you want to go with liquid cooling, a Kraken G12 + Corsair H55 is just $90 (installation video). I'd definitely buy some thermal tape + heatsinks for the RAM/VRM as well, though.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Nov 30, 2019

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Quick question. I was poking around this thread a bit ago talking about upgrading a system that's currently an i5 6600 (non-k) with 16gb of ram and a GTX 970. 500gb SSD and an ancient 500gb spinning drive that I only use for media (i.e. no gaming)

I've found a good deal on a RTX 2070 (newegg is selling them for $400 right now), but I'm indecisive as poo poo and reading around online I"m seeing a bunch of stuff saying that with that processor and gpu combo I'll be so badly bottlenecked I might as well not bother.

I know the CPU has to go, but I figured that the GPU was the bigger weak link right now. I really don't want to do a complete system refresh right now, and was hoping to kick the can on that for a bit. I won't have the spare cash to gut everything out for a bit.

Would I notice a difference grabbing the GPU now and upgrading the mobo and processor in 6-12 months (probably to whatever the then-recommended mid-high Ryzen is) or should I just grab a new processor now and kick the can on the GPU?

edit: It's a general purpose system, but the heavy lifting it does is gaming. On a 1080p monitor right now, but that is also up for a change in the future, although probably not until after I take care of the rest of it. I fired up Kingdom Come to get some numbers and it can comfortably sit in the 55-60 fps ballpark in a moderately busy small town scene (aka the latest random save I had) on medium settings, 35-45 on high, and 25-35 on very high.

edit 2: mostly I don't want to upgrade the CPU and not really see any improvement until I get a new GPU in 6-12 months. I thought I'd be able to avoid that with the GPU first path, but now I'm seeing that I might be wasting my money either way.

I know the real answer is probably going to be to save up until I can do them both at once, but if I do that I'll probably end up spending it on one of my other dumb hobbies.

edit 3: Really I just want to be able to play Cyberpunk and the upcoming Doom without it looking like roasted rear end.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 1, 2019

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



Okay so how does this look?
Giving actual prices below, the build is ~€100 cheaper than this link: https://nl.pcpartpicker.com/list/gy9k9G

- AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor (~205)
- ASRock B450M PRO4 (~75)
- Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16 GB (~85)
- Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (~105)
- KFA2 GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB (339)
- Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower (~54)
- Be quiet! Pure Power 11 400 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX (~55)

Assume 40 ish bux for a cooler.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.


CPU limits are graphics agnostic, so if you can run the game at a higher fps by turning down settings you'll be able to run it at a faster fps at higher settings with a new graphics card. You'll be CPU bound at some point but no one knows yet if cyberpunk will demand more than 4c/4t.

Mind you, while $400 is as good a price as you'll find for a 2070, it's not exactly a screaming deal overall. The 5700xt will outperform it for the price and the 2060S is only slightly weaker, so don't feel like this is a deal you need to jump on.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

ItBreathes posted:

CPU limits are graphics agnostic, so if you can run the game at a higher fps by turning down settings you'll be able to run it at a faster fps at higher settings with a new graphics card. You'll be CPU bound at some point but no one knows yet if cyberpunk will demand more than 4c/4t.

Mind you, while $400 is as good a price as you'll find for a 2070, it's not exactly a screaming deal overall. The 5700xt will outperform it for the price and the 2060S is only slightly weaker, so don't feel like this is a deal you need to jump on.

So is stuff like this off base? - https://pc-builds.com/calculator/

Again, I'm indecisive and re-research poo poo right before I make a purchase. In my latest round of reading about poo poo while a bunch of crap sits in a checkout cart I found a bunch of stuff online talking about how you're wasting money using a newer GPU with an older CPU and got concerned.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004
BITCH ASS NARC

Cyrano4747 posted:

Quick question. I was poking around this thread a bit ago talking about upgrading a system that's currently an i5 6600 (non-k) with 16gb of ram and a GTX 970. 500gb SSD and an ancient 500gb spinning drive that I only use for media (i.e. no gaming)

I've found a good deal on a RTX 2070 (newegg is selling them for $400 right now), but I'm indecisive as poo poo and reading around online I"m seeing a bunch of stuff saying that with that processor and gpu combo I'll be so badly bottlenecked I might as well not bother.

I know the CPU has to go, but I figured that the GPU was the bigger weak link right now. I really don't want to do a complete system refresh right now, and was hoping to kick the can on that for a bit. I won't have the spare cash to gut everything out for a bit.

Would I notice a difference grabbing the GPU now and upgrading the mobo and processor in 6-12 months (probably to whatever the then-recommended mid-high Ryzen is) or should I just grab a new processor now and kick the can on the GPU?

edit: It's a general purpose system, but the heavy lifting it does is gaming. On a 1080p monitor right now, but that is also up for a change in the future, although probably not until after I take care of the rest of it. I fired up Kingdom Come to get some numbers and it can comfortably sit in the 55-60 fps ballpark in a moderately busy small town scene (aka the latest random save I had) on medium settings, 35-45 on high, and 25-35 on very high.

edit 2: mostly I don't want to upgrade the CPU and not really see any improvement until I get a new GPU in 6-12 months. I thought I'd be able to avoid that with the GPU first path, but now I'm seeing that I might be wasting my money either way.

I know the real answer is probably going to be to save up until I can do them both at once, but if I do that I'll probably end up spending it on one of my other dumb hobbies.

edit 3: Really I just want to be able to play Cyberpunk and the upcoming Doom without it looking like roasted rear end.


Speaking from practical experience when I had a 5700XT dropped in an i5 2500k system, you will basically be heavily capped by the CPU. However, if you are going to do a tiered upgrade where you absolutely want to spend money now rather than husband it for a full system refresh in 6-12 months' time, then yes, getting the GPU upgrade now probably makes the most sense *see caveat at the end though*. Assuming you don't have an adaptive sync monitor, the penalty for losing 60 FPS with vsync is severe. The 2070, even a non super, will solve that problem for you in situations where you are not CPU bound below 60 FPS. For example, I saw major improvements to Deus Ex Mankind Divided FPS stability even while I was on my 2500k. Now I had a lot of frame hitching and input lag issues because the 2500K couldn't keep up, and I waited till I got my Ryzen upgrade before actually finishing the game but the overall experience was an upgrade from the GTX 970. The 2070 will also let you grow into a new 1440p monitor should you decide to upgrade down the line. Just expect to be using Med-High settings in 12-24 months' time which is normal since games always get more demanding.

The tricky part of answering your question right now is that DOOM and Cyberpunk aren't out yet and we don't have any tech information from those games as of right now. We have no idea whether a 4c/4t CPU at 3.3 GHz can handle these games without major issues. You could drop the 2070 into your rig only to find that your CPU is making your quality of life terrible in those games. Or maybe it is fine and the 2070 lets you have smooth sailing on those titles till your CPU/Mobo upgrade comes along in 2020. None of us have a crystal ball.

*The devil's advocate position is that GPUs tend to age faster than CPU technology does when it comes to gaming. Even with 8 core CPU consoles on the horizon, the Ryzen 3600 has the potential to hold down the fort longer than a 2070 non-Super would. At the end of the day, there are a lot of things in flux right now. If you have the discipline to hold on to your money, odds are good that kind of deal on a video card will come around again when Cyberpunk is out for sure and we have first-hand accounts on how these games run on a variety of gaming rigs. I wish I had a definitive answer for you but I don't when it comes to whether X hardware can handle Y software that isn't out yet.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Again, I'm indecisive and re-research poo poo right before I make a purchase. In my latest round of reading about poo poo while a bunch of crap sits in a checkout cart I found a bunch of stuff online talking about how you're wasting money using a newer GPU with an older CPU and got concerned.


You will never buy the "perfect" system. Just to reiterate the standard guidelines for spending money - only upgrade when there is something you are doing on your current rig that is unacceptable to you. Try not to upgrade unless you are at that point. If you are trying to take advantage of Black Friday/Cyber Monday, what is your max budget right now? Give us a firm dollar amount and see if we can assemble something that makes sense for you.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Dec 1, 2019

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Cyrano4747 posted:

So is stuff like this off base? - https://pc-builds.com/calculator/

Again, I'm indecisive and re-research poo poo right before I make a purchase. In my latest round of reading about poo poo while a bunch of crap sits in a checkout cart I found a bunch of stuff online talking about how you're wasting money using a newer GPU with an older CPU and got concerned.

At best it's an oversimplification. There will always be a weakest link to a system and the system will be capped at it's performance, however which piece will be so depends on what software you're running and what settings you're running it at.

Generally you're considered to have a bottleneck when one piece of your system is holding back the others to a considerable degree. In this cases I suspect your most likely bottleneck is your monitor - a 1080p 60hz monitor can only ever display at 1080p with a max of 60fps and the 2070 is frankly overkill for that - a 1660S will max out your monitor just fine.

Black Friday is mostly good for picking up things like storage and cases, CPUs and GPUs don't tend to get significant deals unless they're clearing off shelves and BF is no exception. Given that the games you want to play aren't out yet and no one knows what specs they'll require I really advise you to just wait. You're not passing on any deals you'll regret. Maybe pick up a new storage drive, neither DOOM nor Cyberpunk are going to be small games.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004
BITCH ASS NARC

ItBreathes posted:

Black Friday is mostly good for picking up things like storage and cases, CPUs and GPUs don't tend to get significant deals unless they're clearing off shelves and BF is no exception. Given that the games you want to play aren't out yet and no one knows what specs they'll require I really advise you to just wait. You're not passing on any deals you'll regret. Maybe pick up a new storage drive, neither DOOM nor Cyberpunk are going to be small games.

It does happen to be a great time for a budget builder though. Ryzen 2600 and 2700s can be had for very cheap. Zen+ is no slouch.

mom and dad fight a lot
Sep 21, 2006

If you count them all, this sentence has exactly seventy-two characters.
Edit: turns out I read that post wrong. But nonetheless my $25 wireless card is 8 years old and I've never noticed a difference between it and a wired connection. :shobon:

mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Dec 1, 2019

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

MikeC posted:

It does happen to be a great time for a budget builder though. Ryzen 2600 and 2700s can be had for very cheap. Zen+ is no slouch.

The 2600 has been almost the same price for two months, it ain't going back up. It does appear to be a great time to pick up a 2700, I'll give you that.

Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker
Upgrading your PC for games that aren't even out yet is just not a good idea, nobody has any real idea what the game will ultimately need until it is out and even then it usually takes a several months for most games to get patches and gpu driver assists to really shake out the final performance. That being said, there is a safer order to upgrade components based on the expected lifespan of the component and how it impacts the rest of the system. I'd say in almost all cases you should start with the display, it is really a pace setter for basically everything else. It is why one of the most important questions in this thread is "if you are gaming what is your monitor resolution and refresh rate". So if I were you, I would definitely hit up the monitor/display thread and figure out what sort of target you are going to be aiming for once you get to actually upgrading the rest of the system. Then save up and come back when you have the games you want to play on the display you want to play them with. Odds are it will be a lot easier to make the decision then because you will have all the information you will need.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Indiana_Krom posted:

Upgrading your PC for games that aren't even out yet is just not a good idea, nobody has any real idea what the game will ultimately need until it is out and even then it usually takes a several months for most games to get patches and gpu driver assists to really shake out the final performance. That being said, there is a safer order to upgrade components based on the expected lifespan of the component and how it impacts the rest of the system. I'd say in almost all cases you should start with the display, it is really a pace setter for basically everything else. It is why one of the most important questions in this thread is "if you are gaming what is your monitor resolution and refresh rate". So if I were you, I would definitely hit up the monitor/display thread and figure out what sort of target you are going to be aiming for once you get to actually upgrading the rest of the system. Then save up and come back when you have the games you want to play on the display you want to play them with. Odds are it will be a lot easier to make the decision then because you will have all the information you will need.

Ignore me talking about games that haven't come out yet. I know that it's impossible to know what the exact performance will be, I was just tossing those out as near-future games that I suspect my current system won't do well with just based on the way things have been going.

My eventual target is going to be 1440p at 144Hz, but that's probably not for a while. Right now I'm at 1080/60Hz.

Given that I don't have a video card that can do that well I'm a bit hesitant to drop money on a monitor I won't be using.

If the answer is just kick the can and use what I've got I can do that.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Ignore me talking about games that haven't come out yet. I know that it's impossible to know what the exact performance will be, I was just tossing those out as near-future games that I suspect my current system won't do well with just based on the way things have been going.

My eventual target is going to be 1440p at 144Hz, but that's probably not for a while. Right now I'm at 1080/60Hz.

Given that I don't have a video card that can do that well I'm a bit hesitant to drop money on a monitor I won't be using.

If the answer is just kick the can and use what I've got I can do that.

You can definitely get upgrades today if you're unhappy with performance, but the march of tech means the longer you can wait the cheaper a given level of performance becomes.

In your case, if you want a better 1080p60 GPU you should pick up a 1660 super and call it a day, we just can't say how well it will run the games you want to play months from now. DOOM will probably do 4k on a literal potato, Cyberpunk is the big open question in PC building right now.

Some games recently have experienced hitching on 4 core, non-hyperthreaded CPUs, but how much / if an issue it is depends on the games you play and your tolerance for it, but upgrading GPUs and CPUs separately is easy.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

Zedd posted:

Okay so how does this look?
Giving actual prices below, the build is ~€100 cheaper than this link: https://nl.pcpartpicker.com/list/gy9k9G

- AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor (~205)
- ASRock B450M PRO4 (~75)
- Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16 GB (~85)
- Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (~105)
- KFA2 GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB (339)
- Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower (~54)
- Be quiet! Pure Power 11 400 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX (~55)

Assume 40 ish bux for a cooler.

You have a mini atx mobo going into a full atx case. It also might not be compataible with your processor out of the box. I'd just save a little more and get the B450 Tomahawk Max.

Mu Zeta fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Dec 1, 2019

Rashaverak
May 13, 2001

"Cock'n'Balls" is a pinnacle of modern medicine.
I am in the US and considering the following build:

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/BbjmrV

CPU: Intel Core i9-9900KF 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($469.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB XC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($990 @ Newegg) + 50 mail in rebate, bought on black Friday
Case: Corsair Crystal Series 680X RGB ATX Mid Tower Case ($249.99 @ Newegg) + $20 mail in rebate
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($124.97 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Corsair LL120RGB LED (Three Fans With Lighting Node PRO) 43.25 CFM 120 mm Fans ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Case Fan Controller: Corsair Commander Pro ($59.99 @ Amazon)

No monitor as right now it'll just be hooked up to some older 1080p 60hz monitors or a 4k60hz monitor - I'm waiting on some good deals to try and find a high refresh rate 1440p monitor, or wait until high refresh rate 4k monitors become reasonableish.

My goal with this build was to splurge (as my business has had a good year and this is both a tax writeoff and a reward) and get a reasonable-ish high end gaming/Valve Index VR system that should last me for a good 5 years without needing too much changed. I already bought the video card, as $940 for that model on Black Friday was too good to pass up I thought. I considered the Titans, but I'm not wealthy enough to justify a performance gain I probably won't even notice.

The case I selected supports a 360mm radiator/fan slot, two 280mm slots, and a 120/140mm slot. Given that I'm already choosing to do an AIO cooler for the CPU, I'm considering going with an NZXT Kraken G12 and another H115i RGB Platinum to water cool the GPU as well, though I'd appreciate some thoughts on this. I'd like to try and run this system as overclocked as I can without going into full open-loop watercooling territory, and I'm hoping the above will allow me to do that.

I think I've gotten most of the lighting under control with the Commander Pro fan and lighting controller - the case comes with 3 Corsair LL120 fans, and I've selected an extra 3 to cover the two bottom and rear fans (unless I install a second AIO for the GPU). I know the motherboard and RAM aren't Corsair, so the RGB aspect will suffer a little there, but it's not like anyone is going to see this rainbow monstrosity but me.

Anything obvious I've missed?

Rashaverak fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Dec 1, 2019

eames
May 9, 2009

Cyrano4747 posted:

If the answer is just kick the can and use what I've got I can do that.

I’d either look for a 5700/5700XT or ride it out until next year. The Radeons deliver decent performance and have much better deals than Nvidia’s parts at the moment, even though they are more recent. Here in Europe I’ve seen the normal 5700 for 260€ with cashback and the 5700XT for 375€.

You could reuse that in a Zen 3 system and still hit 1440p/144Hz in many titles as long as you turn some of the sliders down. One title hat you mentioned (Doom) also has a track record if running better on AMD cards due to Vulkan optimizations, though these days Nvidia won’t be far behind.

I wouldn’t recommend a RTX card at the moment if you can help it, the prices are too firm. There are rumors how there won’t be new 7nm consumer chips released next year but Nvidia is known to make such statements and then just drop a new generation out of nowhere to avoid the Osborne effect.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

Rashaverak posted:

I am in the US and considering the following build:

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/BbjmrV

CPU: Intel Core i9-9900KF 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($469.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB XC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($990 @ Newegg) + 50 mail in rebate, bought on black Friday
Case: Corsair Crystal Series 680X RGB ATX Mid Tower Case ($249.99 @ Newegg) + $20 mail in rebate
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($124.97 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: Corsair LL120RGB LED (Three Fans With Lighting Node PRO) 43.25 CFM 120 mm Fans ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Case Fan Controller: Corsair Commander Pro ($59.99 @ Amazon)

No monitor as right now it'll just be hooked up to some older 1080p 60hz monitors or a 4k60hz monitor - I'm waiting on some good deals to try and find a high refresh rate 1440p monitor, or wait until high refresh rate 4k monitors become reasonableish.

My goal with this build was to splurge (as my business has had a good year and this is both a tax writeoff and a reward) and get a reasonable-ish high end gaming/Valve Index VR system that should last me for a good 5 years without needing too much changed. I already bought the video card, as $940 for that model on Black Friday was too good to pass up I thought. I considered the Titans, but I'm not wealthy enough to justify a performance gain I probably won't even notice.

The case I selected supports a 360mm radiator/fan slot, two 280mm slots, and a 120/140mm slot. Given that I'm already choosing to do an AIO cooler for the CPU, I'm considering going with an NZXT Kraken G12 and another H115i RGB Platinum to water cool the GPU as well, though I'd appreciate some thoughts on this. I'd like to try and run this system as overclocked as I can without going into full open-loop watercooling territory, and I'm hoping the above will allow me to do that.

I think I've gotten most of the lighting under control with the Commander Pro fan and lighting controller - the case comes with 3 Corsair LL120 fans, and I've selected an extra 3 to cover the two bottom and rear fans (unless I install a second AIO for the GPU). I know the motherboard and RAM aren't Corsair, so the RGB aspect will suffer a little there, but it's not like anyone is going to see this rainbow monstrosity but me.

Anything obvious I've missed?

I definitely wouldn't buy splurge on a 9900KF/2080 Ti now unless you're buying that 1440p/144Hz monitor immediately. You can get good Gsync-compatible 1440/144Hz IPS monitors for under $400 so there's no reason to hold out, and if you do they'll probably be better value cpu/gpu options when you get around to purchasing one. If you're go 1440p, I'd also consider whether a 9900KF is worth the extra $200 over a 3700x - Even with a 2080 Ti the performance difference is going to minimal and mostly at 100+ fps where it's not going to be very noticeable. Going AMD also has the benefit of seriously nice multi-core drop in upgrade options for down the road (plus not requiring serious cooling, though that might not matter if your mostly getting the H115i for the aesthetics).

If you stick with the 9900KF, the Asus Z390 motherboards have pretty disappointing VRM. I'd get a Gigabyte Z390 Pro instead (the wifi version is currently cheaper).

Dropping to a 3700x, swapping out the drives for and equivalent-performance ex920 for the 1TB system drive and 660p for a game installation drive, and a 750W psu would save you ~$500 (more than a nice 1440p monitor!)

The H115i isn't compatible with a Kraken G12 - you'd need to find a cooler on the compatibility list. The XC Ultra already has cooler that's nice enough to max out the power limit so I doubt you'd see much of a performance gain but it might run cooler. If you want to mount two 360mm AIOs, I'd consider the Lian Li O11 Dynamic over the 680X (and I'd probably consider it anyway - it's a very nice case). It also comes in white and "RGB with Razer Logo".

E: I should also add that if you want to put a kraken on your GPU, it might be worth saving $100-200 and getting a cheaper model. The VRM might not be as good as custom pcb models, but many stock pcb models can be flashed with a fancier bios to unlock higher power limits. The performance difference should be relatively minor. You’ll also need VRM/VRAM heatsinks and thermal tape.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Dec 1, 2019

Rashaverak
May 13, 2001

"Cock'n'Balls" is a pinnacle of modern medicine.

Stickman posted:

I definitely wouldn't buy splurge on a 9900KF/2080 Ti now unless you're buying that 1440p/144Hz monitor immediately. You can get good Gsync-compatible 1440/144Hz IPS monitors for under $400 so there's no reason to hold out, and if you do they'll probably be better value cpu/gpu options when you get around to purchasing one.

I definitely plan on purchasing one in the next few days as I hadn't been extremely impressed with anything yet this year - I favor larger monitors, and a 27 inch would likely be too small for me. I'll head over to the appropriate thread and read up on the new offerings to see if there's something nice in the 34-38" range.

Stickman posted:

If you stick with the 9900KF, the Asus Z390 motherboards have pretty disappointing VRM. I'd get a Gigabyte Z390 Pro instead (the wifi version is currently cheaper).

I read about the VRM problems on the motherboard, with the design I chose using the "4x2" layout for the VRM as opposed to a true 8 or 12 phase VRM. Howevber, I simply haven't read anything convincing that this will make a significant difference in my overclocking experience - it just mostly seems like people on either side entrenched in their viewpoints yelling at each other and presenting anecdotal evidence as if it were published in a peer reviewed journal. The primary reason I chose Asus was their consistently good ratings for overclocking software/support. If this is truly a much bigger problem than I've anticipated, I'd appreciate any reading on the subject you might have that's more than just people arguing on the internet.

Stickman posted:

Dropping to a 3700x, swapping out the drives for and equivalent-performance ex920 for the 1TB system drive and 660p for a game installation drive, and a 750W psu would save you ~$500 (more than a nice 1440p monitor!)

The H115i isn't compatible with a Kraken G12 - you'd need to find a cooler on the compatibility list. The XC Ultra already has cooler that's nice enough to max out the power limit so I doubt you'd see much of a performance gain but it might run cooler. If you want to mount two 360mm AIOs, I'd consider the Lian Li O11 Dynamic over the 680X (and I'd probably consider it anyway - it's a very nice case).

Very good point about the storage - if the performance, reliability, and lifespan are the same between two equivalent devices I see no reason not to drop the Samsungs in favor of an equivalent. I simply chose them as I remember Samsung as having made rather decent quality SSDs at slightly higher than normal prices.

Also a very useful point about the Kraken G12 - I've seen so much contradicting information on the internet about what is and isn't compatible (especially with a little use of a dremel) that I've been obviously confused. If I want a good 280mm RGB AIO that will work with the Kraken G12 (and preferably with Corsair's iCUE system which is why I got the commander pro), do you have any suggestions? I like the aesthetics of the H115i Platinum's lights, and the LL120s, so I'd like to stick to something close to that look and preferably all controllable under one system, and I haven't seen any convincing evidence to move to a 360mm AIO when a 280mm seems nearly as good, but I'm willing and interested to be proven wrong. My main goal for watercooling the GPU would be to reduce temps to improve lifetime, get a little extra clock speed out of the lowered temps, and maybe overclock it more than I could with just air cooling. However, if the air cooling on the XC ULTRA is such that I won't really notice any performance gain, I'm not going to worry about it too much.

There's always the option of going full open-loop watercooling, but I've never so much as used an AIO before and don't know the first thing about bending PETG tubes or building my own custom cooling loop, and I'm not sure that I would see too many more gains in performance/stability when overclocked as compared to a decent AIO in real-world (non-benchmark) situations, would I? More importantly, would it make my high refresh rate VR experience any better with the Index? I'm doubting so, but I'm clearly not the expert here.

Thanks for the advice!

Edit: If I get a Kraken X72 (the 360mm one) for the Kraken G12, is there any way I can replace the fans with Corsair LL-120s so I can use the commander pro to control them? At this point I would need to control 8 RGB fans and the Commander Pro can only handle 6, so I'm not sure how or if it's possible to use 2 commander pros.

Also, I'm looking to be able to run virtually anything I want in VR on maximum settings and highest refresh rate on the Index. I know my previous GTX 1080 wasn't cutting it for me, so I want to make sure my VR experience is flawless from now on and that's a large reason why I went all out on this rig (within limits, no $5k GPUs etc)

Rashaverak fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Dec 1, 2019

KinkyJohn
Sep 19, 2002

Locally (South Africa) I can get an intel 9700k for $400, versus an AMD 3800x for $466 or AMD 3700x for $413.

I do mostly use Adobe software on my pc, but would like to play newer games as well.

Should I go for the intel CPU? If so, is there anything I should know regarding RAM speeds or recommended cpu coolers?

tehinternet
Feb 14, 2005

Semantically, "you" is both singular and plural, though syntactically it is always plural. It always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural.

Also, there is no plural when the context is an argument with an individual rather than a group. Somfin shouldn't put words in my mouth.
Hey guys, any suggestions on what would be a good cooler for overclocking an i7-9700k? Snagged a 2080 Ti and want to stretch it @ 3440x1440 @120hz.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

KinkyJohn posted:

Locally (South Africa) I can get an intel 9700k for $400, versus an AMD 3800x for $466 or AMD 3700x for $413.

I do mostly use Adobe software on my pc, but would like to play newer games as well.

Should I go for the intel CPU? If so, is there anything I should know regarding RAM speeds or recommended cpu coolers?

What kind of monitor do you have? The vast majority of people will be fine with the Ryzen 3600.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
I’m looking for a motherboard with two PCIe slots that can run a video card (1650S so 3.0 x16 but the bandwidth won’t ever exceed 3 x8, in fact I think the 1650S 180mm shorties might even have an x8 instead) and a raid controller (3 x8 but it’s just SATA so 2 x8 would probably work as well).

None of the 450s seem to be able to handle two 3 x8 (IIRC it’s usually 3 x16 and 2 x4).

570s seem to be 3/4 x16 and 3/4 x4 only (with a Zen2 I’m pretty sure 4 x4 is more than enough bandwidth capacity but PCIe won’t magically rescale from 4 x4 to 3 x8, it’ll just downscale to 3 x4).

It looks like most 470s with two x16 do either single 3 x16 or bifurcate to dual 3 x8 which seems like it would work. Is this be one of those rare situations Buildazoid mentions where an x470 is actually the right solution?

Barring that, could we stage a revolution on the motherboards and start up a People’s Commissariat for Centralized PCIe Lane Allocation? :ussr:

E: numbers are all from memory so they might be wrong and I’m only really meaning Logical (since a Mechanical x4 or x8 will work in a Mechanical x16 it seems like it’s rare to see anything other than x16 and x1 these days?)

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Dec 1, 2019

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
QNE

:doh:

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
A post so nice I made it twice thrice!

I’m blaming Awful.app on this, though.

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Dec 1, 2019

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Ok, now I"m just looking at biting the bullet and building a new system.

How does this look?

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/cyrano4747/saved/6QDdnQ

CPU AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor

Motherboard MSI B450M PRO-M2 MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory

Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

I'll figure out the GPU later.

edit: use case is gaming, I'd like to avoid another whole system refresh for 5-ish years, right now I"m running a 1080p 60hz monitor but I'd like room to be able to get something in the 1440p 144hz range down the road.

Total budget right now is about $400, up that to about $1000 over the next six months. Maybe faster if I sell some poo poo.

Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>
I genuinely can't think of a good reason to get the 2700X over the 3600, unless there's something extremly specific you need those extra threads for. And even then i dunno what you really get.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($185.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450M GAMING PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($79.98 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $378.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-01 11:22 EST-0500

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Hace posted:

I genuinely can't think of a good reason to get the 2700X over the 3600, unless there's something extremly specific you need those extra threads for. And even then i dunno what you really get.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($185.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450M GAMING PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($79.98 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $378.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-01 11:22 EST-0500

Mostly because there's a sale on them at the Microcenter near me and I can get one for $160. - https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-7-2700/p/N82E16819113498?Item=N82E16819113498

Plus whatever I can sell the free game for over on awful mart

Any reason to go 3600 over 2700X if they cost basically the same?

Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>
The 3600 consistently performs better in games, and is only marginally worse in production applications

As for avoiding a refresh in 5 years: good luck. Things change. 5 or 6 years ago the advice was to never worry about VRAM and that 4 cores was more than enough for anything. Nobody really knows where the wind will blow.

If you really want to hedge your bets, maybe try getting a 2600 now while they're still dirt cheap, and then just getting whatever the last big boy AM4 chip is whenever AMD moves onto AM5 in two years.

Hace fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 1, 2019

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Well realistically I'm only going to refresh in five years. That's about how often I upgrade. I'm on an i5 6600 and a GTX 970 that I put together in 2015 right now.

If the 3600 is that much better for gaming I"ll just hold off and keep looking.

edit: I"m just trying to take advantage of current sales, but I also don't want to hamstring myself. It looks like most of the stuff I should be looking at is new enough to not be on sale.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Dec 1, 2019

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019

Cyrano4747 posted:

Well realistically I'm only going to refresh in five years. That's about how often I upgrade. I'm on an i5 6600 and a GTX 970 that I put together in 2015 right now.

If the 3600 is that much better for gaming I"ll just hold off and keep looking.

edit: I"m just trying to take advantage of current sales, but I also don't want to hamstring myself. It looks like most of the stuff I should be looking at is new enough to not be on sale.

i don't understand, the parts aren't "on sale" but the recommended parts are still under budget. you get $30 off @ Microcenter for bundling a Ryzen with a motherboard, so it's actually cheaper. note this applies to the 2700x as well. so maybe youre still shy about the extra $30.


AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6GHz 6 Core AM4 Boxed Processor - $190 @ Microcenter

Gigabyte B450 AORUS M AM4 mATX AMD Motherboard - $40 @ Microcenter

Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($53 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($60 @ Newegg)
Alternate: https://www.newegg.com/team-group-ms30-512gb/p/N82E16820331232 ($42)

$343 + Tax

bus hustler fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Dec 1, 2019

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Yeah, I'm just saying that if they aren't cheaper now than any random given tuesday I'll just kick the can. I was thinking of taking advantage of holiday sales to refresh my PC, but if the poo poo I should be buying isn't significantly marked down I'll just delay and see what poo poo looks like down the road.

Beach Party
May 2, 2012

"I took the most excellent hit of my life. Next thing I knew, I was on the beach taking in some cosmic rays gettin healed by mother nature. Takin in a little brewski, holdin on to a beautiful babe. And I'm fine today!"
My son is getting to the age where he wants to play computer games which brings a tear to my eye. Currently my PC looks like:

Memory: 16GB DDR3 1600.
CPU: I5-4670K Haswell 3.4GHz
Motherboard: MSI Z87M-G43
GPU: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7950 3GB
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini Black Silent MATX Mini Tower

For current gen games (Fortnight, RaindowSix Siege, CS:GO) if I just get a decent current gen graphics card could I extend the life out of what I have now? Im not looking for it to be Ultra high def graphics but id like it to play smooth at 1080p 60+ fps. Id like to keep costs down as much as I can and wait awhile for a new full system build but if I have to shell out $800 - $1000 for a new computer now I will.

Bank
Feb 20, 2004
I ended up changing some parts around due to Black Friday and upping my budget on the GPU. Right now I have the following:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($95.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 5700 8 GB DD Ultra Video Card ($299.99 @ Best Buy)
Case: NZXT H510i ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $999.94

I bought everything except for the mobo and PSU so far. Looks like the general consensus is to get the Tomahawk Max, but not sure what I need for PSU. FWIW the only other thing going into the build will be an 8TB easystore drive (shucked, of course).

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Bank posted:

I ended up changing some parts around due to Black Friday and upping my budget on the GPU. Right now I have the following:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($114.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($95.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 5700 8 GB DD Ultra Video Card ($299.99 @ Best Buy)
Case: NZXT H510i ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $999.94

I bought everything except for the mobo and PSU so far. Looks like the general consensus is to get the Tomahawk Max, but not sure what I need for PSU. FWIW the only other thing going into the build will be an 8TB easystore drive (shucked, of course).

C/P from the OP, b/c I'm lay-z sorry

Power supplies have roughly doubled in price due to the current trade war. Cheap PSUs are now pricey and good ones are very pricey. Its recommended to get an 80+ Gold (or better) PSU with a 7 to 10 year warranty. While not an absolute sign of quality, long warranties are indicative of the manufacturers confidence in their product. Currently this includes the Seasonic Focus and Focus Plus Gold lines, Corsair TMx, RMx 2018 and RMx 2019 lines, and EVGA Supernova G1/2/3 lines.

For most people a 550w or 650w PSU will be fine. Its best to leave some overhead for transient spikes and to maximize your PSUs efficiency curve, but parts are very efficient compared to what they used to be and only getting moreso. PCPartPicker provides an estimated wattage for your build.

Bank
Feb 20, 2004
Ah right, thanks! Forgot we have an updated OP now. Sucks prices have gone up in recent years..I remember being able to buy an Antec case + PSU combo for $80-150.

tehinternet
Feb 14, 2005

Semantically, "you" is both singular and plural, though syntactically it is always plural. It always takes a verb form that originally marked the word as plural.

Also, there is no plural when the context is an argument with an individual rather than a group. Somfin shouldn't put words in my mouth.

Beach Party posted:

My son is getting to the age where he wants to play computer games which brings a tear to my eye. Currently my PC looks like:

Memory: 16GB DDR3 1600.
CPU: I5-4670K Haswell 3.4GHz
Motherboard: MSI Z87M-G43
GPU: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7950 3GB
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini Black Silent MATX Mini Tower

For current gen games (Fortnight, RaindowSix Siege, CS:GO) if I just get a decent current gen graphics card could I extend the life out of what I have now? Im not looking for it to be Ultra high def graphics but id like it to play smooth at 1080p 60+ fps. Id like to keep costs down as much as I can and wait awhile for a new full system build but if I have to shell out $800 - $1000 for a new computer now I will.

I have literally this build. Upgrade your video card and you’ll crush anything at 1080p. I’m using the 4670k now with a 1080 Ti (I know, bottleneck) at 1440 Ultrawide and usually getting 60+ frames.

The games you listed are all a few years old, so yeah. At 1080p if you went to a 1660 or found a used 1060 (probably even lower) or something as you’d be golden. 1080p @60hz isn’t a high bar to meet anymore.

E: just saw that you’re building for your kid — that’s the whole reason I’m upgrading myself. ‘Sup building computer for kids buddy? I’m stoked for them to see the difference from the Xbox to what they’ll have now. With the sales and the hardware I had laying around, got to build them two 1440p 156hz AMD 3600x /1080 Ti boxes for like ~$1k altogether. There are some decent case/RAM sales happening right now too.

Double e: though I did pull the trigger on an upgrade and had a question — what’s the recommended cooler for an I-75-9700k in a mid-tower?

tehinternet fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Dec 1, 2019

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
I really like my PSVR but the limitations are noticeable and I’m thinking about building a box for an Oculus S. Here’s some idiot questions because man am I out of the loop:

-I used to build PC’s but it’s been almost 20 years. For reference, my last one was a bleeding edge Athlon XP with a Radeon 9800. Has much changed with respect to assembly?

-I don’t want to find room for a desk and monitor. I’d be using this 90% for VR and like 10% traditional gaming with a controller so I’d like to just use my TV as a monitor. What are the considerations with doing this? Can I just run an HDMI and call it good? Will I need a separate cable for sound or can I run both through one HDMI like with a game console? My last PC had a dedicated sound card so it was a simpler question then.

Ok here’s the actual hardware I’m brainstorming. Can someone let me know if this would be adequate? I’m trying to do my own research but there’s a lot to catch up on so I’m just using PC parts picker.

Condensed:
Ryzen 5 2600
16GB DDR4-3000
MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti

Full list:
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/rgj48d/modest-amd-gaming-build

Also I’m in the USA.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

Rolo posted:


-I used to build PC’s but it’s been almost 20 years. For reference, my last one was a bleeding edge Athlon XP with a Radeon 9800. Has much changed with respect to assembly?

Really almost nothing. The low end cases don't have razor blade edges anymore. There are basically no parts you can hook up backwards, everything is keyed, though 1999 might have been to that point too.

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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Rolo posted:

I really like my PSVR but the limitations are noticeable and I’m thinking about building a box for an Oculus S. Here’s some idiot questions because man am I out of the loop:

-I used to build PC’s but it’s been almost 20 years. For reference, my last one was a bleeding edge Athlon XP with a Radeon 9800. Has much changed with respect to assembly?

-I don’t want to find room for a desk and monitor. I’d be using this 90% for VR and like 10% traditional gaming with a controller so I’d like to just use my TV as a monitor. What are the considerations with doing this? Can I just run an HDMI and call it good? Will I need a separate cable for sound or can I run both through one HDMI like with a game console? My last PC had a dedicated sound card so it was a simpler question then.

Ok here’s the actual hardware I’m brainstorming. Can someone let me know if this would be adequate? I’m trying to do my own research but there’s a lot to catch up on so I’m just using PC parts picker.

Condensed:
Ryzen 5 2600
16GB DDR4-3000
MSI GeForce GTX 1660Ti

Full list:
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/rgj48d/modest-amd-gaming-build

Also I’m in the USA.

This is basically my exact setup and it does VR fine, though I haven't done enough VR on beefier hardware to know how much better it can be. No man's sky doesn't hold 90fps but it's close. A 1660S performs just as well as a 1660TI for slightly less, though I don't know if their few differences matter more for VR.

You can run an HDMI to the TV (I do). Navigating on a TV is a bit of a pain but it's not a deal breaker / worth digging out a second screen.

I'd get a better PSU, I've got the spiel just a few posts up.

I'd say most people build without spinning drives these days, you can get a TB of SSD storage for ~$100, though if you're getting a lot of large games an HDD still works. Someone more knowledgeable about the SSDs on the market may be able to recommend a better one than their parametric part.

I wasn't building PCs 20 years ago, but it's as easy as tab A into slot B.

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