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Chello De Don posted:i don't think this is actually the case. i left a few dead bodies lying around and several hours later in my playthrough die hardman called me and said they were about to go BT and i needed to move the bodies to the incinerator. i wasn't able to do so, and the drat things voided out and caused me to have to redo the mission where you carry mama. so yeah, they absolutely are a gameplay element. My experience was mowing down a terrorist camp and then die hardman getting really mad at me but then he tells me some other porters took care of it so it's actually fine.
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Dec 3, 2019 21:11
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https://twitter.com/DickKingSmith/status/1201804727555629058
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Dec 3, 2019 21:20
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Panzeh posted:My experience was mowing down a terrorist camp and then die hardman getting really mad at me but then he tells me some other porters took care of it so it's actually fine. this happened to me when i killed people immediately next to a delivery center and they had a flashing alert thing around the ghost icon. apparently you do get a voidout if you leave bodies further away but it takes several hours
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Dec 3, 2019 21:24
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The cutest extinction event.
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Dec 3, 2019 21:27
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Phenotype posted:(ending)I don't understand why Amelie says that saving Sam and turning him into a repatriate unleashed things on the world, because surely they wouldn't be doing BB research unless there were already BTs around to spot. Nothing is entirely clear, but it seems that the whole "People die, their soul comes back for the body, BT, BT hunts people, void out" part of the equation is entirely natural. The Timefall and the mass BT fields and all the SUPER crazy poo poo is because of what she did bringing Sam back. That's why the Timefall is gone when she closes off her Beach, but everyone still has their ghost powers and there are still BTs. She isn't the cause of *all* the weird ghost poo poo, she just kicked it up in intensity. When Higgs and her tell you you can't stop all this, just buy more time, they aren't lying. The universe decreed extinction for humanity, and it'll keep pushing until we are going.
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Dec 3, 2019 21:33
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:I really don't agree That's not really what I mean. Higgs has powers a year before the game starts. So Amelie/Bridget has decided to go the extinction route long before she tells you she wants to connect everyone. The point of connecting everyone was always so she could destroy everything. She is actively working against you the entire game. She gives Higgs the quipu during the course of the game even.
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Dec 3, 2019 21:34
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Duck Standing
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Dec 3, 2019 22:08
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Got the game. I'm excited for the buildy stuff that seems to be coming but I can definitely see why people didn't care for this game. The gameplay is pretty thin and I would actually like more exposition to fill time during runs. What I'm in it for is the world building and story though. I would love a book set in this universe, going over what happened, why, and what happened since. Like Seveneves or World War Z. I'm 6 hours into the game and I still had to look up what BT stood for and what they were supposed to be other than ghosts. Apparently the very first BT came out during a C-section of a mother who was brain dead. That's metal as gently caress and would be crazy to see (assuming it's not in the game already).
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Dec 3, 2019 22:15
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Mulva posted:Nothing is entirely clear, but it seems that the whole "People die, their soul comes back for the body, BT, BT hunts people, void out" part of the equation is entirely natural. The Timefall and the mass BT fields and all the SUPER crazy poo poo is because of what she did bringing Sam back. That's why the Timefall is gone when she closes off her Beach, but everyone still has their ghost powers and there are still BTs. She isn't the cause of *all* the weird ghost poo poo, she just kicked it up in intensity. When Higgs and her tell you you can't stop all this, just buy more time, they aren't lying. The universe decreed extinction for humanity, and it'll keep pushing until we are going. Yeah the understanding of events that I have is that humanity's extinction is a natural cosmic process. It begins with the birth of the Extinction Entity who has connections to the Beach and The Other Side. She is aware of what will eventually happen, but wants to try to prevent it. BTs begin appearing and are first discovered when a doctor is performing a C-section and suddenly gains the ability to see BTs while touching the unborn child's umbilical cord, and it causes a voidout shortly afterwards. Based on this event Bridget begins the BB experiments so she can prove the existence of BTs as the cause of the voidout, and motivate the rest of humanity to work with her to research and stop the extinction. During the experiments Sam dies, and she uses her powers to bring him back as a repatriate. This unnatural tampering of life and death apparently agitated the forces of the universe, and caused things to accelerate with The Death Stranding devastating the world, or at least she believes this to be the reason why it happened. By the time the game starts she has given up and decided things would be better off if she just initiated the extinction right now, and put humanity out of its collective misery rather than keep trying to postpone the inevitable. To do this she has Sam complete the network and connect everyone to her. However she ultimately decides to leave everyone connected to each other, but cut herself off from them to stop the timefall and decelerate the extinction back to its normal timescale. Though it remains an inevitable conclusion.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:19
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Hey, haven't beat the game yet so i'm avoiding this thread for the most part so I'm just poking my head in to ask if there's ever an answer given to why people kept trying to shake Sam's hand despite the fact they loving know they're holograms.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:34
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Neuronyx posted:Hey, haven't beat the game yet so i'm avoiding this thread for the most part so I'm just poking my head in to ask if there's ever an answer given to why people kept trying to shake Sam's hand despite the fact they loving know they're holograms. They’re not always holograms. You meet a lot of the main cast in person. And some preppers.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:40
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I personally thought a big part of it was also (ending spoilers) simply having both options available. Yes, the chiral network also speeds up the Extinction process, but in doing so also gives humanity the chance to say they want to live and keep fighting a while longer. Basically ... here's your choice to keep living, and if you choose not to do it, welp, I can flick this switch and put everyone out of their misery ASAP.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:40
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Neuronyx posted:Hey, haven't beat the game yet so i'm avoiding this thread for the most part so I'm just poking my head in to ask if there's ever an answer given to why people kept trying to shake Sam's hand despite the fact they loving know they're holograms. Force of habit. Also, very early game spoiler here - Sam's DOOMS also maifests as severe haphephobia, a fear of physical contact, which is why he breaks out in hives at the first cutscene. Literally so bad that his body has an uncontrolled allergic reaction to touch. So, he avoids people like the plague because they physically are a plague to him due to his superpower disease.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:41
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skooma512 posted:I'm excited for the buildy stuff that seems to be coming but I can definitely see why people didn't care for this game. The gameplay is pretty thin and I would actually like more exposition to fill time during runs. It gets much better; don't worry.
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Dec 3, 2019 22:51
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Feeding my OCD by dismantling zip lines and setting up new ones five feet away
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Dec 3, 2019 23:19
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Steve Yun posted:Feeding my OCD by dismantling zip lines and setting up new ones five feet away There's nothing worse than coming across some loving boneheaded placement. Like, next to a rock that blocks it off from half the drat map, when there's space on the rock for a Zipline.
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Dec 3, 2019 23:23
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Stupid question, but when you delete an online structure, it’s only removed from your game, right? You’re not denying it to everyone else?
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Dec 3, 2019 23:35
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Ainsley McTree posted:Stupid question, but when you delete an online structure, it’s only removed from your game, right? You’re not denying it to everyone else? Correct
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Dec 3, 2019 23:37
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If you delete it from your game and it’s something you made, does it continue to exist in other people’s’ games too?
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Dec 3, 2019 23:45
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Spite posted:That's not really what I mean. So? Amelie is very much the hidden antagonist... i don't see how that is detrimental to the game's themes. Like even on a plot level it seems to me like Amelie just gave into despair because of her isolation. So Bridget and her concocted this elaborate trap in order to end life for all time on earth permanently not just another extinction event. She just needs you to activate the network in order to make a final stranding not just another death stranding. Bridget and Amelie are both on the same page the whole way since they are in essence the same person. She manipulates you with the relationship she has with you in order to make the final part of her plan happen.
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Dec 3, 2019 23:48
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Romes128 posted:They’re not always holograms. You meet a lot of the main cast in person. And some preppers. Well poo poo, now I have no idea who I met in person or not. Probably Die-Hardman? J.A.B.C. posted:Force of habit. I'd buy the force of habit thing too. Especially since I remember in Deadman's case, he offers his hand and in the same drat scene he's established to be a hologram by walking through the walls around BB. Also is that a real thing that can happen? Breaking out in hives at touch? That sounds loving horrible.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:07
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Neuronyx posted:Well poo poo, now I have no idea who I met in person or not. Probably Die-Hardman? Depends on where in the game you are. Very minor spoiler. You meet Die-Hardman and (in one instance, very uncomfortably) Deadman in person a few times. You have to physically go to Mama and Heartmans locations to meet them. Fragile basically pops in your room whenever she wants.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:28
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Hobo Santa restin up before delivering chiral nuggets at high speed to Mules.
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Dec 4, 2019 00:38
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Steve Yun posted:If you delete it from your game and it’s something you made, does it continue to exist in other people’s’ games too? I am pretty sure the prompt when you're deleting says it will remove it from other people's worlds as well
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Dec 4, 2019 00:53
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skooma512 posted:Got the game. I don't believe the term BT is actually spelled out and I don't think it matters compared to what they are.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:02
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I don’t think the first BT was created at that moment, it was just the first time somebody saw one That said, I’ve been wrong about like half the plot poo poo I’ve said in this thread so I guess don’t listen to me
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Dec 4, 2019 01:06
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Romes128 posted:Depends on where in the game you are. Very minor spoiler. You meet Die-Hardman and (in one instance, very uncomfortably) Deadman in person a few times. You have to physically go to Mama and Heartmans locations to meet them. Fragile basically pops in your room whenever she wants. Huh, okay cool. Yeah i've met Mama and I know from a trailer i'll eventually meet Heartman, it was D.Hardguy and DeadDude who I wasn't sure about.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:21
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PancakeTransmission posted:I mean if you actually play the story (ie advance past chapter 3 or 5), stuff will be explained to some degree instead of looking it up. Someone said from a promo video it stands for "Beached Thing" which is underwhelming but also appropriate.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:25
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Pretty sure there is an email you get in chapter 2 which explains what BT stands for
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Dec 4, 2019 01:27
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So is the basic premise that humans filled hell with tweets and now the souls of the damned stalk the living
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Dec 4, 2019 01:31
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Pretty sure there is an email you get in chapter 2 which explains what BT stands for Amelie also says Beached Things, but it's towards the end of the game.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:33
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:So? Amelie is very much the hidden antagonist... i don't see how that is detrimental to the game's themes. That's my point. The entire premise of the game and connection is a lie to make it easier for her to end everything. By connecting everyone to the chiral network you are bringing everyone closer to the beach and death. You can easily read this game as saying connection is death. I don't think that's what Kojima meant, but that's what's implied, imo. It's not that they are basically the same person - they literally are. She says she was aware of being on the beach and in the hospital bed at the same time.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:33
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Spite posted:That's my point. Sam being like "no that's bullshit" when Amelie says exactly this to him nearly word for word should have been your clue that the game doesn't want you to take her opinion as word of god.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:36
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CJacobs posted:Sam being like "no that's bullshit" when Amelie says exactly this to him nearly word for word should have been your clue that the game doesn't want you to take her opinion as word of god. I like your av
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Dec 4, 2019 01:40
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Thank you. 👍👍👍👍👍👍 I beat the game tonight. It was very, very good. My consensus personally is, there's very little I could say anything negative about. All my complaints are incredibly minor. It's just an incredibly solid experience from start to finish- and it is an experience, with all the baggage that comes with calling it that. But it's definitely worth experiencing, that's for sure.
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Dec 4, 2019 01:58
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Spite posted:You can easily read this game as saying connection is death.
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Dec 4, 2019 02:01
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Spite posted:That's my point. Like i said: just because connection is being used for nefarious ends does not in itself condemn connection and co-operation as something inherently evil within the purview of the game itself since everyone had to be lied to for it to happen. Its really not implying what your saying unless you strip away all the inherent good of connecting with other people does for sam, the preppers, the bridges personel and everyone else. The fact that Amelie needed deception to turn rotten what in all aspects is good has to mean something else than just "connecting with people is evil and leads to extinction".
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Dec 4, 2019 02:42
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The things you actually see happen in the game, like the Timefall farm providing food and beer for people, the Veteran Porter getting out of his depression, people not having to rely on oxytocin injections anymore, the Junk Dealer and the Chiral Artist finding each other again, they're all positive things that came from creating the Chiral Network and allowing people to connect again. Amelie sees the Chiral Network just as a way to bring about the Last Stranding because she's been stranded on the Beach the whole time, she hasn't made any connections. That's why she leaves it up to you and you choose to delay extinction. Because you have seen the positive effects of connections. That's literally the entire point of the plot and the gameplay
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Dec 4, 2019 02:51
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:Like i said: just because connection is being used for nefarious ends does not in itself condemn connection and co-operation as something inherently evil within the purview of the game itself since everyone had to be lied to for it to happen. Its really not implying what your saying unless you strip away all the inherent good of connecting with other people does for sam, the preppers, the bridges personel and everyone else. The fact that Amelie needed deception to turn rotten what in all aspects is good has to mean something else than just "connecting with people is evil and leads to extinction". Yeah, I think it was important that the chiral network was kind of a double-edged sword -- she might have been ABLE to use it as a tool to destroy everything, but throughout the entire game you're seeing how it's bringing safety and hope to everyone you meet. And in the end she ultimately didn't use it to destroy everything BECAUSE of how much it inspired everyone, so it's hard to buy that the message is "connection is death". I also don't see why (ending) humanity's extinction is guaranteed, after you get Amelie to turn off all the crazy. Like, just the few weeks (months?) the game takes place in sees enormous strides in humanity's ability to survive. Remember, before they started experimenting on Sam's blood, I think they literally had no way to affect the BTs whatsoever. Like, maybe if we experiment on these fetuses for years we can rig up a chest pack that plugs into your scanner doodad and you can maybe barely SEE the BTs, as long as you're crouched and not moving. And by halfway through the game, you're getting emails about other porters who are out there able to kill the things and blaze a trail using hematic grenades, and once the entire nation is linked together with the entire history of humanity, your scientist buddies are all making huge breakthroughs about the BTs and the Death Stranding. Once Amelie gets off her bullshit, there's no timefall anymore either, and I think the large BT areas might have gone away too, since they're apparently all gone from the incinerator during the final run with BB. I don't see why humanity can't make pretty much a full recovery as long as they keep their corpse-BTs under control. VVV: ok so it's even WORSE than I said haha. Also maybe re-spoiler that. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 02:56
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Phenotype posted:if we experiment on these fetuses for years we can rig up a chest pack that plugs into your scanner doodad and you can maybe barely SEE the BTs, as long as you're crouched and not moving. I'm pretty sure that people without DOOMS have nothing to go on except where the Odradek is pointing. When you see the BTs that's just a game representation of Sam sensing them. That's why they don't look like the artist's impressions you see in Heartman's Lab.
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Dec 4, 2019 03:00
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