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LORD OF BOOTY posted:the /r/fatestaynight subreddit's "official viewing order" tells people to go 2006 -> UBW -> HF movies -> Zero and i want to grab whoever did that by the throat and scream at them until i cannot scream anymore
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Dec 5, 2019 16:17
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They really arent assuming youve seen zero. They added a couple callbacks and thats about it.
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Dec 5, 2019 22:08
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There's no great viewing order that can preserve the experience of playing through the three routes except through the medium of anime.
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Dec 5, 2019 22:50
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Eh, there are quite a lot of things that HF movies just kinda throw at the viewer and then quickly move on without really explaining or elaborating on them (Sakura and Rin being siblings is an example off the top of my head), where it's clear that it's kinda assumed that the audience already knows all about them. It does not make watching movies impossible without seeing F/Z and UBW before, but there will be a lot of things that will feel really undeveloped and a lot of big, significant moments will feel less impactful. Also HF true end is a pretty concrete and fulfilling conclusion of the entire "main" Fate franchise (unless they decide to adapt Fate/Hollow Atraxia, of course), so recommending to watch Fate/Zero after it just feels wrong.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:20
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I haven't seen any of the adaptations, but I would think Fate would lose a lot of its early tension if you already knew how the universe worked and the nature of the killing game. I dunno if the Fate anime starts as slow as the VN does, but the VN definitely counts on the mystery elements to keep you hooked while it lays everything out. Edit: Post-FGO though I guess I kinda assumed that most newcomers would be spoiled on almost everything before they got to FSN in any form. A lot of people probably also followed the Ufotable adaptations and got in with Zero and then went straight to UBW. Randallteal fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 23:47
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Lt. Lizard posted:Eh, there are quite a lot of things that HF movies just kinda throw at the viewer and then quickly move on without really explaining or elaborating on them (Sakura and Rin being siblings is an example off the top of my head), where it's clear that it's kinda assumed that the audience already knows all about them. It does not make watching movies impossible without seeing F/Z and UBW before, but there will be a lot of things that will feel really undeveloped and a lot of big, significant moments will feel less impactful. Also HF true end is a pretty concrete and fulfilling conclusion of the entire "main" Fate franchise (unless they decide to adapt Fate/Hollow Atraxia, of course), so recommending to watch Fate/Zero after it just feels wrong. this, pretty much the three main things that, ordinarily, Zero spoils from HF are the Rin and Sakura sibling relationship, Kirei's whole deal, and the specifics of what's happening to Sakura the Sakura stuff all gets kind of blown through at the church scene, which means not very much time gets spent on the reveal that she and Rin are siblings, and an anime-only viewer who's holding off Zero would be totally loving lost on what her general deal is for 1.5 movies meanwhile, i don't really remember if we got much Kirei in the first two-thirds of the VN route but i know we got close to none in the first two movies, and i suspect this is partly because Zero already pretty much explains what his deal is and a lot of the stuff about him in HF is now a little redundant.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:53
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nobody should ever watch fate/zero, for any reason, in any order
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Dec 6, 2019 00:22
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Fate/Zero is good, but it should be a followup to FSN because it spoils almost every twist.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:26
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2006 should be watched for the opening. That's all I got
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Dec 6, 2019 00:42
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I think there are some things to like in FSN 2006. It has some nice music tracks, it brought in the voice cast, Archer vs. Heracles is kind of cool, and I think the date with Saber episode is probably an improvement over the VN tbh. Otherwise yeah its pretty heavily flawed.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:45
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Fate Zero is insanely good just not as good as UBW or Hf.
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Dec 6, 2019 00:53
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I think Fate/Zero is a very pretty series with a few good characters a lot of bad characters and an ending that makes me actively angry
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Dec 6, 2019 00:55
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Fate Zero is the Breaking Bad of Fate. In that its really bad and for men with no taste 
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Dec 6, 2019 00:55
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Snooze Cruise posted:Fate Zero is the Breaking Bad of Fate. Also both presented a deliberately flawed and broken man who's ultimate destruction is the result of his own need to be a Big Man who is promptly misunderstood and rendered as just a "badass" in a large chunk of the fanbase.
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Dec 6, 2019 01:35
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Snooze Cruise posted:Fate Zero is the Breaking Bad of Fate. So basically fate
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Dec 6, 2019 01:35
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Dr Pepper posted:Also both presented a deliberately flawed and broken man who's ultimate destruction is the result of his own need to be a Big Man who is promptly misunderstood and rendered as just a "badass" in a large chunk of the fanbase. Everyone who presented Kerry as cool and right makes me go, "You really wanna live like this bitch?"
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Dec 6, 2019 02:22
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Tae posted:So basically fate Blockhouse posted:I think Fate/Zero is a very pretty series with a few good characters a lot of bad characters and an ending that makes me actively angry
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Dec 6, 2019 02:24
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I like Fate ero
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Dec 6, 2019 02:42
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Skylar had a thousand times the agency of any of the women characters in fz.
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Dec 6, 2019 03:05
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would the ideal f/sn anime adaptation have some harrison ford rear end blade runner monologues
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Dec 6, 2019 03:13
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Rody One Half posted:I like Fate ero
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Dec 6, 2019 03:13
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Rody One Half posted:I like Fate ero
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Dec 6, 2019 03:20
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i want to marry leonardo da vinci
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Dec 6, 2019 04:48
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Compendium posted:Everyone who presented Kerry as cool and right makes me go, "You really wanna live like this bitch?" tbh a lot of why i like Kiri is because of this he's a character who's basically correct in his ideology, and yet the effects of living up to that ideology mean he's someone who nobody in their right loving mind would ever want to emulate e: also, seconding that this discourse would probably be better if people actually stated more concrete things than "Zero bad" or "Zero good" WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 05:04
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Just because he's right, doesn't mean he's correct!
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Dec 6, 2019 05:45
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he's also a lot easier to swallow because he's not the only protagonist of F/Z, he and Arturia basically split that duty with Waver and Iskander. and the other three of those people are inarguably super likable like if you don't love Waver and Iskander you're loving straight up wrong, and... i don't know, i'm kind of torn on Arturia in Zero as a whole, because like, her arc is pretty depressing (because it has to set the table for her being all hosed up over the situation in FSN), but she gets a lot of really fantastic individual moments and interactions. the convo with her, Iskander and Gil is just a completely fantastic scene, and i kinda love the subplot with her and Diarmuid even if it's yet another Saber Gets hosed Over Again because they're really fun together before poo poo goes bad and, when poo poo does go bad, Diarmuid's death scene might honest to god be the most  way I have ever seen somebody die in fiction like holy god drat Diarmuid  also i just kinda love how weirdly intricate F/Z is like that. it really manages to sell the Fourth HGW as just being a giant unbelievable clusterfuck, and it does so without really shafting anyone because everyone's bullshit ends up enmeshed with everyone else's bullshit and it just becomes a gigantic bullshit circus of hosed up broken people taking out their trauma on each other. and that kind of owns. Galaga Galaxian posted:Just because he's right, doesn't mean he's correct! more or less, yeah, actually
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Dec 6, 2019 05:54
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I like Type Moon food conversation cause goddamn they really get into it
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Dec 6, 2019 05:54
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I'd like to see the Third Grail War because the snippets we see of it in Hollow Ataraxia are interesting.
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Dec 6, 2019 07:05
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https://twitter.com/MiyataiKazumi/status/1202594318608809986
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Dec 6, 2019 07:53
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30-year-old Rin gonna speak to the Tower's manager
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Dec 6, 2019 08:00
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I mean, I like Kerry too, but he is in fact a bitch
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Dec 6, 2019 10:46
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:he's also a lot easier to swallow because he's not the only protagonist of F/Z, he and Arturia basically split that duty with Waver and Iskander. That's a really weird way of writing 'slobbers over the dick of the genocidal tyrant and the dictator who wants to go to war with the world to take it over while taking a massive dump on Saber's character'. It also started the Gilgamesh apologism that Fate descended into.
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Dec 6, 2019 11:31
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TheKirbs posted:It also started the Gilgamesh apologism that Fate descended into. Haha. What? That’s quite the take. Care to explain? My recollection is Gilgamesh being just as sociopathic in F/Z if not slightly more charismatic about it.
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Dec 6, 2019 12:38
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Saber definitely has a bad time in FZ but it seems consistent with what she says and how she acts in the Fate route. The way she describes it in FSN puts quite a few limits on what she can do in fact.
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Dec 6, 2019 12:57
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Fate doesn't really engage in Apologia for Gilgamesh, it just replaces him with a completely different character after FSN and FZ who isn't totally psychotic. Like CasGil and Kogil being different, fine, but Solomon has ArcherGil giving loving heroic speeches lol
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Dec 6, 2019 14:13
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It's like you people forget Gilgamesh is canonically Chaotic Good.
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Dec 6, 2019 14:18
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TheKirbs posted:That's a really weird way of writing 'slobbers over the dick of the genocidal tyrant and the dictator who wants to go to war with the world to take it over while taking a massive dump on Saber's character'. i think you're mistaking those two characters being more confident in their ideologies than Arturia, for the show actually agreeing with them. the primary theme of that whole ideological conflict is that Gil and Iskander successfully shed their humanity to become kings, whereas Arturia has a constant tension between her still-existing humanity and her status. Iskander and Gil think she's a big dumb idiot bitch for this, but the reality is that this makes her a better king than them even if the idea of being both a monarch and a human being is bugfuck crazy and incomprehensible to them. it's not an accident that the conversation comes back during her fight with Lancelot, who dies giving her these words: quote:I was never able to stop myself from loving Guinevere, so I was never able to forgive myself. However, King Arthur, you never questioned me for my crimes. You never sought recompense. You simply continued to stand before us in your righteousness. But I desired judgment at your hands. Had your anger judged me, I might not have fallen onto the path of madness in my search for atonement, but I can say this much with certainty. King Arthur, you are certainly the greatest among Kings. All who followed you thought such.
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Dec 6, 2019 14:46
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:the primary theme of that whole ideological conflict is that Gil and Iskander successfully shed their humanity to become kings, whereas Arturia has a constant tension between her still-existing humanity and her status. Iskander and Gil think she's a big dumb idiot bitch for this, but the reality is that this makes her a better king than them even if the idea of being both a monarch and a human being is bugfuck crazy and incomprehensible to them. It's genuinely impressive to me that people can miss this when every time Arturia's "perfect king" status comes up, it's very blatant that nothing good came out of it. What did she get out of it? A daughter that despises her (and loves her, confused kid). Her ally going insane. Her kingdom getting destroyed by a rebellion specifically against her. Having to relive the very moment where she should've died over and over, only to get brisked into yet another war. A horrible lack of self-worth because she feels she failed everyone and should've never been king in the first place, leading to the previous point. Arturia being human brings her happiness and bonds. Arturia being a king brings her despair and hatred from those around her.
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Dec 6, 2019 15:19
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Just in case you didn't get it in zero they made a whole singularity about it where she really IS all king no human
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Dec 6, 2019 16:01
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Iskandar is a greedy conqueror but he was someone who brought out hope and inspiration in his men, literally and metaphorically broadening his horizons and helped Waver become who he is today. Gilgamesh is a pompous rear end in a top hat, but he can back up what he says and as the Babylonia anime shows, is absolutely capable of being a monarch who understands his people's needs and looks out for their well being. And so Rody One Half posted:Just in case you didn't get it in zero they made a whole singularity about it where she really IS all king no human We're gonna get some wholeass movies about it too 
Compendium fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 16:43
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