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All of which completely ignore the actual translation process. It's easy enough to do remasters or ports when you already have the complete script in Japanese (or in English if already translated) but adding a translation on top of that is a completely different beast. I'm not saying that no one would buy it if they've already played it before, that's obviously false, I'm just saying that less people might buy it. Your target audience is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of people who care about the Fate franchise. Maybe that's still enough to make it worth it, but you're certainly not going to be selling to 100% of everyone who's read the fan translation either.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:52
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theres also people who know of the fate franchise but are daunted at the prospect of getting into it because there's twenty different works. If you properly market it as the original then you'd also be drawing into that demographic.
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Dec 11, 2019 02:23
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I almost got Steins Gate on switch to finally Cross that off but apparently that version replaces all the cool original art with anime stills? E: also yes add Medea route no I don't care that there's no room for more thematically
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Dec 11, 2019 03:03
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I'm surprised Nasu has never gone back to the well of alternate FSN routes. I guess it's a bit of a barren field just because he already put the best ideas in the game, but I think there's lots of stuff you could do with the setup. A Shirou route with Rin as the protagonist could be really compelling I think although you'd need to make sure it wasn't just UBW again; Rin has a fun enough voice to carry a game. A route where Caster is an ally is also a good idea. Comedy option is a Burn After Reading route where Shirou is killed by Berserker and everything just goes to poo poo immediately
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Dec 11, 2019 03:15
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Rody One Half posted:I almost got Steins Gate on switch to finally Cross that off but apparently that version replaces all the cool original art with anime stills? Yeah, SG elite is the remaster that uses art and video from the anime adaptation instead of the original VN art. There's also some minor things from the original VN that are cut entirely in elite, since they were never adapted for the anime. But if you want a switch version, elite is currently the only option. wrt Fate, I think just using the realta nua version and doing an incremental split release of the routes would do fine, even without any updates to the art.
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Dec 11, 2019 03:15
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Late, but a Fate story done by Jordan Peele or Nicolas Winding Refn sounds amazing. "There's a hundred-thousand leylines in this city. You don't need to know the route. You give me a time and a catalyst, I give you a Holy Grail War. Anything happens in that Holy Grail War and I'm yours. No matter what. Anything happens a minute either side of that and you're on your own. Do you understand?"
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Dec 11, 2019 03:19
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I think official FSN would get a respectable number of sales but probably not enough to justify translating a script that's longer than War and Peace
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Dec 11, 2019 03:23
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Clarste posted:The actual reason to not translate this is that translators are paid by the letter and FSN is in the list of top 10 most wordy games ever, ie: it would be more expensive to translate this than literally 99% of any other thing you could translate in the world. Yet how much are people willing to pay for it? Surely less than a 60 USD full priced AAA game (which would in fact be far cheaper to translate). I would guess, like, 10 bucks or so? It's certainly a valuable IP, so it has that going for it, but it's just an expensive project that you can't sell for very much, so you need a huge volume of sales to make a return on your investment, and I'm skeptical that all these new FGO fans will translate into the sales numbers they need. without even directly approaching the cost/revenue of an f/sn localization, consider how much it would pay out in fgo gacha bucks. also an interesting model to consider: on the jp apple store, realta nua's fate route is free, and the next two routes cost 1600 yen each
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Dec 11, 2019 04:30
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nrook posted:I'm surprised Nasu has never gone back to the well of alternate FSN routes. I guess it's a bit of a barren field just because he already put the best ideas in the game, but I think there's lots of stuff you could do with the setup. A Shirou route with Rin as the protagonist could be really compelling I think although you'd need to make sure it wasn't just UBW again; Rin has a fun enough voice to carry a game. A route where Caster is an ally is also a good idea. Comedy option is a Burn After Reading route where Shirou is killed by Berserker and everything just goes to poo poo immediately gently caress i want this now like i honestly just want more of the original FSN cast because none of the spinoff casts are really ever as good. GO's characters are, like, fine but they don't grab me the way the FSN ones did e: also, yeah, official easily-accessible translated FSN would make Grand Order a lot more immediately penetrable to people who aren't already Fate fans, and I could see it being treated as a loss leader for that reason
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Dec 11, 2019 04:32
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lotta people in here overestimating what VN translators get paid per character count also, if you look here at a list of games with really big character counts, you can see a ton of them have already been handled professionally. just saying "fate stay night is basically LOTR which makes it insurmountable" doesn't actually place it into a localization perspective.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:36
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Space Flower posted:lotta people in here overestimating what VN translators get paid per character count I mean, if you want a good translation, you probably wouldn't want to pay bottom of the barrel prices. There isn't actually, like, a huge distinction in the people who do fan translations and the people who do it for money, so worst case scenario you get a different bad translation by someone who also isn't familiar with any of the material. Anyway, I actually am a game translator (not for VNs specifically I guess), and I've heard of rates anywhere from 2 yen per character on the low end to like 15 yen for your master celebrity translator. I would say 6 or 7 is more common? That said, it's not just literally the grunt translator's salary, there are also editors and managers and whatever who also presumably drain money somehow. So let's say 15 yen total per character, just to make the calculations simple. I don't know if that's reasonable, I've only ever been on the bottom rung of this ladder. Frankly I would assume that the people higher on the chain are devouring more money than this. According to your link, FSN apparently has 3950 kilobytes of text. Japanese character encoding uses 2 bytes per character, so that's 512 characters per kilobyte, or 2,022,400 characters. Which is actually way less than I thought. Anyway, at 15 yen per character that would cost approximately 30 million yen? Which I guess isn't that much money to a big publisher.
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Dec 11, 2019 05:44
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Official translations potentially have a lot more access to helpful materials like a proper copy of the original script, access to development notes, and potentially can just call up the original author(s) themselves and ask questions.
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Dec 11, 2019 05:49
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I would expect fans to have the script anyway if they're hacking the game, but the rest depends on how cooperative the original devs are feeling. I dunno how willing Nasu is to personally go over the entire script and start adding notes for translators at this point. Personally I've seen anything from literally zero notes to in-depth citations of what each line is referring to and the hidden motivations of the character saying it. I would say that even the detailed notes are generally pretty bad about helping you figure out what katakana terms are supposed to be referring to (ie: names of heroes or weapons), presumably because they don't know how to write this stuff in English either, they only know what they're called in Japanese. Which seems like it could potentially be an issue. The actual translator almost certainly wouldn't talk to the creators themselves, but could ask questions through an intermediary. A professional translator also tends to work with less context than a fan translator since the fan would be actually playing the game and seeing all the scenes in context while the pro would be working from a spreadsheet and would have to buy the game themselves if they wanted to see the pictures or hear the voices. The company might reimburse you for that as a "research expense" though. And this doesn't help if the game isn't released in Japan yet either. Clarste fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 05:53
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Now that Fate is popular they're charging a lot for the rights to distribute it too. But the biggest issue is they'd make the translators use Altria instead of the correct Artoria imo.
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Dec 11, 2019 06:05
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Tribladeofchaos posted:But the biggest issue is they'd make the translators use Altria instead of the correct Artoria imo. That is not an issue. I guarantee you someone would make a simple patch to change it, lol.
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Dec 11, 2019 06:08
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Arturia is the best romanization imo. It's not "King Arthor" or "King Althr", it's "King Arthur," and Arturia makes more sense as a feminine version of Arthur. e: I'm actually pretty sure that pre-GO Aniplex subs used that romanization, too. I don't entirely get why they switched to Altria aside from "Nasu willed it." WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 06:53
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Artoriusa.
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Dec 11, 2019 07:13
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Arthur+
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Dec 11, 2019 07:26
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Alteria.
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Dec 11, 2019 07:33
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It's artoria in the extella games.
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Dec 11, 2019 07:48
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Aerithia.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:02
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Just go full 80’s/90’s dub and name her Tiffany and give her a valley girl accent.
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Dec 11, 2019 14:53
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Nicholas Cage as the Kirei equivalent.
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Dec 11, 2019 16:07
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:e: also, yeah, official easily-accessible translated FSN would make Grand Order a lot more immediately penetrable to people who aren't already Fate fans, and I could see it being treated as a loss leader for that reason There's been statements (from JP, granted) about how people who were already hooked to FGO (FGO JP has ridiculous market penetration) learned of TM's other products that way. Remember, FSN is like two generations removed by now. Meanwhile FGO has 10yo kids playing it.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:07
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Speaking as someone who has only ever experienced the original F/SN through the Deen anime, the Ufotable UBW, and the archived LP from this forum, I would absolutely pay full AAA game retail price for an official localization of the original visual novel.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:53
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:e: also, yeah, official easily-accessible translated FSN would make Grand Order a lot more immediately penetrable to people who aren't already Fate fans, and I could see it being treated as a loss leader for that reason People don't need to play FSN to understand the basic plot in FGO.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:10
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I would pay gobbo monies to get a FSN localization on the Switch.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:17
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people don't need to play FSN to understand any part of FGO. Of all FSN's Servants, only Saber Alter has had any kind of role in a mainline Singularity. There haven't even been any fanservice events! I guess Pseudo-Servants are a thing, but those are like 80% OC so again, you in no way need to play FSN
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Dec 11, 2019 18:52
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There are collab events with other Fate shows like Zero, Prisma Illya, and Apocrypha but those events also have their own self contained stories that won't leave you out of the loop as much.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:17
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Cursed Arm Hassan was used as a major player in a main storyline chapter but it's not like there's a lot to mine in backstory or characterization from his FSN showing. Kojirou also gets a part to play during the Part 1.5 anthology stories. Lastly Heracles and Medea have relatively more minor roles in story chapters (I'm counting Medea Lily as a separate character here) Overall it's not really a huge gulf. Gilgamesh technically shows up but his role and personality is far enough removed from FSN Gilgamesh that I don't think he'll spark confusion.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:19
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Compendium posted:There are collab events with other Fate shows like Zero, Prisma Illya, and Apocrypha but those events also have their own self contained stories that won't leave you out of the loop as much.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:20
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Or Hollow/Ataraxia. Or Carnival Phantasm.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:22
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Most of the seasonal events are basically Carnival Phantasm
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Dec 11, 2019 19:37
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fsn characters are almost entirely used in the context of their real life myths not in their fsn context. like kojiro is in shimosa for musashi's sake, it'd make sense for him to be there even if he wasnt in fsn
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Dec 11, 2019 20:07
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i feel like y'all are kind of forgetting that the very beginning of FGO just kind of drops you headfirst into the setting and assumes you already have some familiarity with Fate (it does a really bad job of explaining all the basic universe concepts like how magic works, how Heroic Spirits work, etc, and seems more focused on the FGO-specific stuff for what little exposition you get) i could see someone who's willing to roll with poo poo they don't quite get being OK, and in fact that's kind of what FGO pushes you towards since the Fuyuki singularity is very explicitly "oh poo poo, we have no time to teach you anything and you're the last one standing, go unfuck this," but that's not everybody and someone who's either seen the assorted animes or read the VN is gonna have a way easier time
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Dec 11, 2019 21:46
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Clearly we need to do a survey of FGO players to see how many have read the VN or are interested in reading the VN.
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Dec 11, 2019 21:52
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Clarste posted:Clearly we need to do a survey of FGO players to see how many have read the VN or are interested in reading the VN. this is actually not a terrible idea e: gently caress it, i'mma do a google forms survey and post it in the FGO thread and subreddit
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Dec 11, 2019 23:54
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i do think the crazy success of tons of kickstarters for popular 00s VNs that already had fan TLs is a good indicator on its own of the kind of response an official f/sn localization would get
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Dec 12, 2019 00:32
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i made the survey and it's a little over 100 responses, and it's... actually more interesting than I would have figured so far. nearly everybody who plays FGO is an anime-watcher. 85/15 split in favor of yes. however, it seems to be pretty much half and half for people who've read the VN- 52/48 split, in favor of "no." out of the "no" answers, half are willing to check the VN out, 1/4 aren't, and 1/4 are unsure. i'll post pie charts when it's at a bigger number of responses
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Dec 12, 2019 00:38
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I hate playing FGO, never spent on it, and consume it through YT compilations. But I'd absolutely buy official Fate and Hollow releases. Put that poo poo on switch.
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Dec 12, 2019 01:14
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