|
rt4 posted:Is "culture fit" ever anything besides a bunch of unassessed biases and just bullshit overall? A VP mentioned offhand today that it's an important part of hiring. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I felt on hearing it. Sure. It’s also “is an rear end in a top hat” “rude to women” etc.
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 14:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 07:35 |
|
|
Alternatively it's "don't be an rear end in a top hat" or "can hold a conversation" or "treats potential coworkers with respect"
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 14:51
|
|
|
It can also mean “I’ll veto their hire if I loving want to because I’m the boss”, but you’ll see that coming.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 15:11
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:It can also mean “I’ll veto their hire if I loving want to because I’m the boss”, but you’ll see that coming. Hey now, it can also mean, "Do they have a family that they'd want to go home to at the end of the night?"
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 15:35
|
|
|
Anything about disrespect to colleagues should be filed under "communication skills" or "professional decorum" which apply to every workplace rather than implying any particular business has a special "culture." The same people who'd reject someone for wearing a suit to an interview may need vague descriptions that don't grind against their "casual" pretenses.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 15:39
|
|
|
Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 16:34
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Is "culture fit" ever anything besides a bunch of unassessed biases and just bullshit overall? A VP mentioned offhand today that it's an important part of hiring. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I felt on hearing it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 19:28
|
|
|
dantheman650 posted:Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to? It depends on what teams have headcount. For me it took about a week, I got pitches from two or three teams and I picked the one that sounded more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 19:32
|
|
|
dantheman650 posted:Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to? edit: Actually that's Facebook offers I think, nevermind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 20:31
|
|
|
dantheman650 posted:Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 21:17
|
|
|
dantheman650 posted:Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to? It's practically indefinite unless you're extremely specialized and you would probably know that going in. I wouldn't recommend feeling pressured to say yes to the first round, generally 2-4 teams, if you don't feel like any are a good fit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
dantheman650 posted:Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to? I talked to hiring managers about their teams, and then picked one. It took about a week, maybe two. Importantly, this is the part where you pick, not the managers. It's not a "do they like me." If you're talking to them, they already like you and want you on their team.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:I talked to hiring managers about their teams, and then picked one. It took about a week, maybe two.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 01:34
|
|
|
Ralith posted:That's not really accurate; it's a mutual fit assessment, just one that presupposes your baseline technical competence. It will probably depend on the manager. My experience was that they were just pitch calls explaining the projects. I wasn't really asked any questions or anything, it was just "here are the projects with openings, where do you want to go?
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 02:52
|
|
|
Ralith posted:That's not really accurate; it's a mutual fit assessment, just one that presupposes your baseline technical competence. It's accurate for myself and everyone I interact with on the daily, and I was explicitly told this by the recruiter and multiple hiring managers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 03:47
|
|
|
I'd be very surprised if most managers aren't talking to multiple people over one slot. I know that happened to me. Also had one manager ask semi technical questions which really put a damper on that call when the recruiter prep was that the call was about the project.
asur fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Dec 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 04:07
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Is "culture fit" ever anything besides a bunch of unassessed biases and just bullshit overall? A VP mentioned offhand today that it's an important part of hiring. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I felt on hearing it. I always felt this is to give teams the illusion of control.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 09:52
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Anything about disrespect to colleagues should be filed under "communication skills" or "professional decorum" which apply to every workplace rather than implying any particular business has a special "culture." The same people who'd reject someone for wearing a suit to an interview may need vague descriptions that don't grind against their "casual" pretenses. We use it for "will be okay with how our teams work". We generally don't have well written tasks or acceptance criteria, teams change their processes as they see fit, people work very collaboratively and change tasks based on helping the team achieve their goals. Someone who wants stability, well written specs and very defined roles and responsibilities wouldn't "fit" in our "culture", even if they're perfectly professional and qualified and pleasant. I'm not sure what else we would call this? (We do go into detail about this in interviews, it's something the candidate needs to know as well to make a good decision.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 11:04
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Is "culture fit" ever anything besides a bunch of unassessed biases and just bullshit overall? A VP mentioned offhand today that it's an important part of hiring. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I felt on hearing it. I once worked on a team where "culture fit" wasn't an explicit part of the interview process. So they inadvertently hired someone who thought that a good icebreaker with me, token black dude #4 in 2015, was to have an extended, unprompted, 1-sided "conversation" about how the Negro Baseball League revolutionized baseball in America. This was subsequently followed by lots of questions about "where you're from", with the unspoken implication that I was too well-spoken to have been born in the US. I can't actually tell if this confirms or denies your hypothesis.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 14:28
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Is "culture fit" ever anything besides a bunch of unassessed biases and just bullshit overall? A VP mentioned offhand today that it's an important part of hiring. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I felt on hearing it. Where I am at, the culture fit question comes down to “does the candidate have empathy and respect for others.” Had candidates who would be a strong hire from a technical perspective, but we get a product manager or QA person on their interview loop and the candidate talks poo poo about their jobs right to their faces. Or you get into the debrief and find every woman on the loop is voting “hard pass.” FriedDijaaj posted:I once worked on a team where "culture fit" wasn't an explicit part of the interview process. So they inadvertently hired someone who thought that a good icebreaker with me, token black dude #4 in 2015, was to have an extended, unprompted, 1-sided "conversation" about how the Negro Baseball League revolutionized baseball in America. This was subsequently followed by lots of questions about "where you're from", with the unspoken implication that I was too well-spoken to have been born in the US. This would get a candidate walked out early, hopefully before we wasted the money buying them lunch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 17:29
|
|
|
rt4 posted:Is "culture fit" ever anything besides a bunch of unassessed biases and just bullshit overall? A VP mentioned offhand today that it's an important part of hiring. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I felt on hearing it. Hi old programmer thread! I imagine "culture fit" will be a catch-all that is useful for anyone recruiting, including "cult" organizations (that expect everyone to fit in the same mold of young, energetic, outgoing, insecure overachievers) to reject people who don't fit their perception of the correct personality/age/gender/social background/family situation, as well as being a nice way for a more reasonable business to reject someone who is otherwise competent but doesn't shower and put on a clean shirt every day. (Yeah, our company culture is "no B.O.") Destroyenator posted:We use it for "will be okay with how our teams work". We generally don't have well written tasks or acceptance criteria, teams change their processes as they see fit, people work very collaboratively and change tasks based on helping the team achieve their goals. Someone who wants stability, well written specs and very defined roles and responsibilities wouldn't "fit" in our "culture", even if they're perfectly professional and qualified and pleasant. I'm not sure what else we would call this? I wouldn't call that a culture, I'd call that lax engineering practices.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 19:26
|
|
|
Hippie Hedgehog posted:Hi old programmer thread!
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 20:05
|
|
|
Vulture Culture posted:Your culture is what you reward and what you punish. This is the single most important thing to understand about software development. There is no culture; there are only incentives. And the fundamental truth of human behavior is that people act in line with their incentives.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 20:19
|
|
|
Reminds me of how after Uber's self-driving car stuff caused an accident, they claimed they had a "culture of safety" despite having nobody responsible for safety on-site. Culture doesn't just magically happen, it has to be baked into the company's operations. Claiming you have a culture of X (where X can be safety, working hard, not sexually harassing, whatever) without actually doing anything to support and encourage X is basically saying "we will blame you for failing to do X, and wash our hands of it, even if all of your incentives were to not do X."
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2019 23:32
|
|
|
New Yorp New Yorp posted:It's really common to switch jobs every 2-3 years in this industry. I've been at my current job for 8 years now and when I talk to recruiters or hiring managers and mention that, it's met with surprise. It may even be perceived as a negative, like staying in the same job means you have no ambition or are complacent. Christ, I was at my first programming job out of college for like 16 years. I'm at 6 on my current one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 04:55
|
|
|
Presto posted:Christ, I was at my first programming job out of college for like 16 years. I'm at 6 on my current one. It's ok as long as you're showing growth. I was at my last job for 7 years, started as a tech lead ended as a director. On the other hand I'm working on recruiting a former coworker, he's been at the same company for 16 years, as a Sr Engineer for 16 years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 06:08
|
|
|
Hughlander posted:It's ok as long as you're showing growth. I was at my last job for 7 years, started as a tech lead ended as a director. On the other hand I'm working on recruiting a former coworker, he's been at the same company for 16 years, as a Sr Engineer for 16 years. Yeah, I've been a Senior Software Engineer forever. Why would I want to be anything else? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
Presto posted:Yeah, I've been a Senior Software Engineer forever. Why would I want to be anything else? Pay brackets? I would expect most large shops have IC titles above senior.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 01:23
|
|
|
Staff, senior staff, principle etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 02:01
|
|
|
Some people like being leaders and are good at it. Our leads are essentially democratically voted by peers and signed off by management across other teams to make sure the person is properly trained and has the right mentality to succeed in a leadership capacity. I’ve heard that the best indicator of culture is determined not by the people that are there but by the people that are not there anymore. And given what I’ve known about the people fired or that quit, I don’t want to work with those people at all. Otherwise, working hard for 6+ years at a job and walking away with like $5MM+ in your bank account mostly tax free and can live anywhere in your 30s it’s understandable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 02:16
|
|
|
leper khan posted:Pay brackets? I would expect most large shops have IC titles above senior. Yes and this is an org they’re at that does have a staff title. As well as throw around lead like candy. There’s probably a lead and a staff for every 2 seniors. I’m not joking. (No more than 4 for sure).
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 02:29
|
|
|
leper khan posted:Pay brackets? I would expect most large shops have IC titles above senior. Everywhere I've worked, the pay is pretty comparable between seniors and above, but the amount of bullshit that comes with an above senior role is soul-crushing. Shoot for the highest compensation with the lowest title.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 02:39
|
|
|
Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:Everywhere I've worked, the pay is pretty comparable between seniors and above, but the amount of bullshit that comes with an above senior role is soul-crushing. Shoot for the highest compensation with the lowest title. That hasn’t been my experience mostly because I’ve seen huge variance in the same grade at the same company which I’ve taken to mean better negotiating. The people are the staff/proncipal level tend to be those better negotiators but not always.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 02:49
|
|
|
necrobobsledder posted:Otherwise, working hard for 6+ years at a job and walking away with like $5MM+ in your bank account mostly tax free and can live anywhere in your 30s it’s understandable. Wait what how do i do this
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 03:41
|
|
|
Start-up lottery winners exist in the same way lottery winners exist
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 04:24
|
|
|
necrobobsledder posted:Start-up lottery winners exist in the same way lottery winners exist Buying a lottery ticket is much less effort tho.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 05:00
|
|
|
Hippie Hedgehog posted:I wouldn't call that a culture, I'd call that lax engineering practices.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 08:46
|
|
|
where do i get 5mil in my bank account i would like to have an extra 5mil
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 21:50
|
|
|
Destroyenator posted:That's fair, but it's a conscious choice. It's not "we don't know better", it's "this is an acceptable tradeoff for us". Some people aren't looking for that style of work and that's something we need to be aware of when hiring. How long have you been in business? Do you expect such a "culture" can prevail long-term, or will there be pain once the company grows to the point that it has to enforce stricter practices? I'm genuinely curious if this would be possible beyond, say, 300 engineers, because it sure sounds like the more fun way to do it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 07:35 |
|
|
Hell, I'll settle for a mere $4M
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2019 22:00
|
|
