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Okay, well, I was trying not to reference the books haha, and it's likely the show will continue to diverge from that version of the story. (Plus I don't remember much of the post-gate books very well besides the main plot). From the show, it looks like they're not even open for business yet, or at least being very tightly controlled such that Ilus and the corporation setting up shop there is a fairly new endeavor. It seems like they're still decades at least from colonies beyond the rings being any danger to the convenience of cracking rocks open in the comfort of our own solar system. Mars is definitely hosed, though. They laid it out pretty clearly in the show -- there's no reason to stay and do all this terraforming stuff when there's a thousand new planets out there that already have breathable air. It wasn't the death sentence some of you guys have hinted at for Bobbie's nephew, though, he'll probably just be one of the wide-eyed colonists in a few years once he has some work experience and can be of value to a new colony.
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Dec 15, 2019 19:40
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Also for some reason they changed the age of the builders from 2 billion to 1.5 billion
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Dec 15, 2019 19:43
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Phylodox posted:I thought it was pretty explicitly stated that Holden triggered the swarm and everything else by bringing Miller, who just started flipping switches and turning things on willy-nilly. this is correct, the landing pad explodes, they try to not land on a bed of rubble, shuttle takes damage from the explosion,, crash lands. Phi230 posted:Also for some reason they changed the age of the builders from 2 billion to 1.5 billion to be accurate, he was guessing the age of the specific structure, using methods that may not be accurate in another solar system. SpookyLizard fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 19:46
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Combat Pretzel posted:PSA: Explosions create shrapnel. i need to rewatch it but the crash scene makes it look like it was getting shot at or at least being continuously hit by something - an explosion would be a blast of shrapnel and that's it
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Dec 15, 2019 19:55
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I have a semi-dumb question, what gravity is everyone living under? I know that basic science should tell me that everything on the ships, including the Rocci happens in zero g, but that everyone is just using magnetic boots to walk around. But what of the belters and their various habitats? I never really thought about it until Naomi had to take a bunch of drugs in order to be able to survive under a standard 1g gravity Semi related, I kinda miss the idea from the first few episodes of the show, that all the belters born outside of planets were really tall. But I guess that would be a major pain to continue doing.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:02
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Oasx posted:I have a semi-dumb question, what gravity is everyone living under? I know that basic science should tell me that everything on the ships, including the Rocci happens in zero g, but that everyone is just using magnetic boots to walk around. But what of the belters and their various habitats? Mars has 0.38 G. Anything that can spin (Tycho, Ceres, Eros) will be generating about 0.3 G. Ganymede has something like 0.14 G naturally. Most ships cruise at 0.3 G unless they need to get somewhere fast. Prax should be the tallest thinnest dude ever with a weird shaped head. pik_d fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 20:04
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The reason the Belters exist is because they can mine resources that Earth and Mars need. There is no way to compete with places like a giant ball of Lithium like Illus. The belt's way of life isn't dead, but it will be shortly.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:08
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Oasx posted:I have a semi-dumb question, what gravity is everyone living under? I know that basic science should tell me that everything on the ships, including the Rocci happens in zero g, but that everyone is just using magnetic boots to walk around. But what of the belters and their various habitats? In the books it is considered that everything above 1g is basically a hard burn and unpleasent to Belters crew members. Belters prefer 0.3g or so. Earthers and Martians can tolerate 3g for prolonged periods of time but it's very unpleasent if you have to burn for months at such an acceleration. Drugs which mitigate the negative effects of high acceleration are administered automatically by the crash couches, which are also a lot more elaborate and are made out of deforming gel. Without the drugs humans, regardless of origin, would pass out during intense evasive manuevers.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:10
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Grand Fromage posted:This is where the show suffers a bit, the timeline is different. In this book it's been a few years since the slow zone incident, huge numbers of ships are going through the gates to colonize new worlds, Medina Station's drum has been filled with dirt and turned into a nice park, etc. Way more time has passed overall in the book than the show so the timeframe doesn't quite make sense. This is one of the big issues I've always had with this show, that it doesn't really depict the passage of time properly. This season was particularly egregious - the journey from Earth to the Ring to Ilus took something like a year and a half in the book. But they didn't depict this at all. The crew of the Roci looked exactly the same when they arrived at Ilus as when they left Earth. The dudes' beards didn't grow, and Naomi's short hair didn't grow out at all. They could have done this to easily and organically depict the long passage of time, but they didn't. Made it look like the trip took a few days at most.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:15
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I can't remember if the show specifies, but Ilus is slightly over 1g, so it pulls harder than any habitat in the Sol system. Re: crash couches, the ones we see in the Razorback are more or less what a standard-issue crash couch looks like in the books. Speaking of numbers, that was something that was hard to gauge in the show but seemed to have been scaled down. In the book version, First Landing's population is around 200, and the RCE expedition is something like 40 people. Also, because the travel time is longer in the books, First Landing is nearly two years old by the time RCE shows up.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:26
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It seems like the belt and outer planets are screwed no matter what happens. It's not like the current trade benefits them much anyway, because everything is owned by inners. By right, the ring should be controlled by them, but that's only if they can keep it. The only way to get power in the expanse universe would be to already have it. Earth already had power, so they remain in power. I'm not clear on the exact background of Mars, but it seems like they gained power before Epstein drives, so they were able to break off from Earth without any way for Earth to do anything about it. Plus, they are right next to the belt, so it is easier for them to project their power over it. Before the Epstein drive, the outer planets probably could have done their own thing and be as powerful as the inners, what with how many moons Jupiter and Saturn have, seems like they'd have enough resources to get by. But Earth and Mars can easily be out there within a few weeks to shut anything down they don't like. Even if Earth and Mars totally left the belt and outer planets and ignored them, they still can't really better themselves. They have no one to trade with, because the inners just bring in much more material from the ring gate. They can't do that, because it seems like the UNN and Mars have already divvied up all the planets, so anywhere the belters go is already "claimed" even if the belters get there first. They would probably have to go full isolated socialism or communism or something to better themselves without contact from the inners. Otherwise some inner would easily be able to waltz in, become the most powerful person with their cheap goods, and takeover again.
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Dec 15, 2019 20:58
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Belters will also grow up in different conditions depending on your social status, but even then you're going to need specialized medical care to grow up healthy. Remember that Miller scene with Miller about his Belter 'tell' in the first season where we saw the injection scars from the public bone growth injections on Ceres that He'd gotten. But if you're really on the fringes of Belter society, you're born on the float with little or no medical care at all and end up like Anderson Dawes' sister - functionally so weak from her childhood that even living on the float was nearly impossible. Also remember that the slums in Ceres are closer to the core of the asteroid, and because of that have weaker spin gravity than the more prosperous regions which are closer to the surface. I don't remember if it's in the show, but in the books, in addition to being the bread basket of the outer planets, Ganymede is also a major destination for childbirth and nursery care because of its Lunar-strength gravity, and its natural magnetic field and has large medical facilities because of these facts. Though in terms of realism I'm not sure how accurate that is given the strength of Jupiter's own magnetic field, and massive radiation belts. I don't know if that field would have much protective capacity the way Earth's does. Also wanna remind people that there is a book-spoiler thread for discussing the show here, be warned there's a lot of untagged book spoilers relative to where the show's at throughout: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3896644 ATP_Power fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 21:12
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Someone in the show mentions that people go to Ganymede to give birth. I remember it coming up during the twitch marathon. Also, I guess a bunch of people had never seen the show before because a bunch of twitch chat was people reacting to what was happening and making guesses about things.
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Dec 15, 2019 21:19
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ATP_Power posted:Though in terms of realism I'm not sure how accurate that is given the strength of Jupiter's own magnetic field, and massive radiation belts. I don't know if that field would have much protective capacity the way Earth's does. It's not, the radiation flux at Ganymede's surface is real bad since it's inside the radiation belts, Ganymede's magnetic field doesn't help much. Callisto would be a better option since it's outside the belts. But the real best option would be Titan, the atmosphere is so thick plus Saturn's radiation is negligible compared to Jupiter, nature's autoclave. Titan has slightly lower gravity but it's not that different than Ganymede. Also, since Titan is the only major source of nitrogen off Earth it would be very important for farming. You'd have trouble with sunlight though, the sun is a lot dimmer out there plus Titan's atmosphere is so hazy. Burying yourself under Ganymede's ice works fine as a radiation shield, but in that case the magnetic field doesn't matter.
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Dec 15, 2019 21:20
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I want to see what kind of underwater habitats people would come up with for Europa.
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Dec 15, 2019 21:26
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I wonder if the Pluto is a planet debate still happens in the Expanse and if there are angry boomerbelters who try to live on it
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Dec 15, 2019 21:31
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T-man posted:I wonder if the Pluto is a planet debate still happens in the Expanse and if there are angry boomerbelters who try to live on it Pluto is what the Roci blew up to test their new railgun.
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Dec 15, 2019 21:39
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T-man posted:I wonder if the Pluto is a planet debate still happens in the Expanse and if there are angry boomerbelters who try to live on it Pluto is really far away. Even with an Epstein it's a multiple month journey from anywhere populated. Saturn is the furthest part of the system with any extensive settlement. There are some research stations out at Uranus and Neptune, nothing mentioned beyond that.
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Dec 15, 2019 22:15
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Looking back on the season as a whole it feels like there is a disconnect between the time passing for Holden and co. and the other stories. Holdens adventures feel like they take maybe a week. Where as avasiala and bobbies stories take months of time. More avasiala and her whole campaign seems like it should take 6 months to a year. As for moneros dastardly plan. I thought it was previously mentioned that earth is the sole supplier of some life critical biological supplies. If it is wrecked by several asteroid hits won’t the whole system break down? Also, and I realize this may be more perk then flaw, but once the first couple of rocks hit aren’t the big gently caress off rail guns that earth has going to slag tyco and ceirses? Not to mention just lob a bunch of nukes at mars for good measure. I guess some people never learn the the best move is not to play.
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Dec 15, 2019 22:38
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Grand Fromage posted:Pluto is really far away. Even with an Epstein it's a multiple month journey from anywhere populated. Saturn is the furthest part of the system with any extensive settlement. There are some research stations out at Uranus and Neptune, nothing mentioned beyond that. The ring gate is 2 AU beyond Uranus too.
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Dec 15, 2019 22:43
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Phenotype posted:Okay, well, I was trying not to reference the books haha, and it's likely the show will continue to diverge from that version of the story. (Plus I don't remember much of the post-gate books very well besides the main plot). I like that the show has it before the colonies are up and running. It gives it that feel of cultural malaise, where everybody is losing purpose, but that's still that fear about what's gonna happen when the economic effects start to bite.
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Dec 15, 2019 22:59
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Cojawfee posted:I'm not clear on the exact background of Mars, but it seems like they gained power before Epstein drives, so they were able to break off from Earth without any way for Earth to do anything about it. Mars was still an Earth colony in Epstein's day. His discovery meant that Mars's tiny navy was suddenly more than a match for Earth's much slower ships. Mars traded Epstein drive technology for independence and a share of the Belt and outer planets, which had been impractical to colonize with the older drives. Edit: if this sort of background information is still too much book-chat, let me know. Folks can who don't want to risk spoiler overload in the other thread can also PM me if they want. Toast Museum fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 22:59
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Oneiros posted:i'd imagine that planetary landings are more of an afterthought / checkbox feature for a ship like the roci. it was pretty funny to see them always manage to find the perfect landing spot so that airlock/ramp was always at ground level tho. Yeah that was especially true at the end when they were getting out of the PM building I was wondering "how are they going to pull that off, does the Roci have a shuttle or something I forgot about or-- oh. okay they just found the perfect spot."
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Dec 15, 2019 23:12
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 I don't like it when they re-cast characters!!!
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Dec 15, 2019 23:13
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Honestly, given the cancellation, it's a miracle that Arjun's the only character so far to be recast. I'm not a big fan of the new guy's take on the character but things could be so much worse. Although, I do have a sinking feeling that we're never gonna see Anderson Dawes again
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Dec 15, 2019 23:25
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Phylodox posted:I thought it was pretty explicitly stated that Holden triggered the swarm and everything else by bringing Miller, who just started flipping switches and turning things on willy-nilly. You're probably right. I binged the show pretty hard and might be mixing up the timeline, but I was sure the swarm came before Holden helped Miller with the switch flicking. It looked to me like the shuttle was shot at. And since the colonists didn't have a big gun, swarm seemed to be a logical explanation
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Dec 15, 2019 23:25
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Some late season information speculation: If I'd have to guess I'd say that
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Dec 15, 2019 23:28
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logikv9 posted:i need to rewatch it but the crash scene makes it look like it was getting shot at or at least being continuously hit by something - an explosion would be a blast of shrapnel and that's it
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Dec 15, 2019 23:32
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https://twitter.com/ffrankieadams/status/1206284682301779968
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Dec 15, 2019 23:43
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everyone else is just short
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Dec 15, 2019 23:58
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T-man posted:everyone else is just short Checking IMDB: Nick E. Tarabay is 5'11" Shohreh Angdashloo is 5'5" Frankie Adams is 6' So that statement is objectively true. I admit that I really wish this season hadn't dropped as a bloc/binge. For one thing, I'll run out of Expanse far too quickly. For another I like the ability to look at the episodes and discuss them in greater detail, complete with the ability to speculate on what will happen next episode to episode.
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Dec 16, 2019 00:13
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RE: Economy While in that time the material supply may not have changed yet, demand and futures would be heavily flipped. Suddenly the inners need food, oxygen, and water more than they did before and so the price jumps up. Ship manufacturing stays a steady source of income for the belters, but suddenly theres a bunch of warships being decommissioned and being refit for transport, so value in the raw materials goes down and the advantage of building in deep space due to adjacency to materials goes down. Plus, if theres stockpiles of materials those values have crashed and the Belter supply chain valuation would go with it. The things the belters need increase in cost, but everything they offer stays the same or is reduced and so the relative ability to acquire food and Oxygen is changed drastically and rapidly. If you were on the edge before the market flip, you're now below sustenance. The fragmented and vertical nature of belter economies would compound this Picture a mining station whose economy was mainly mining rocks and supporting one another. If your average worker only had a cushion of say 30% (higher than most Americans), and the price of what they were doing went down from $10/unit to $7.50/unit and the price of food goes up from $10/unit to $12.50/unit, you're no longer solvent. Without an external entity providing food, such as an aid organization, the OPA or some sort of insurance likely ran by the inners and probably bankrupted unless they find a way not to pay out, you dont have the means to buy food and the cost of moving is very high in space. A labor surplus would reduce the value if you did move, and government subsidization of food would keep the price of food high and rising. This economic food security issue is why towns fracture and disappear when the mining goes, this is why the UK couldn't just weather out WW1 instead of getting involved, and why Caribbean island economies have fractured and will not recover no matter who is in charge unless they build new industrial bases. And in those places, the price of moving is having enough supplies to survive walking/horseback/cars/trains to get to where food is cheaper and labor demand is higher and still not everyone makes it. Here, travel requires passage on a ship you don't own, can't afford, and the destinations kill some percentage of migrants that can afford the meds; anybody that can afford the meds, you're less able to work in the the advantaged places and they all have rising rates of unemployment without Belters taking the jobs.
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Dec 16, 2019 00:45
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A smart move would have been to come to an agreement that belters get exclusive contracts to move supplies between new worlds and Earth and Mars. We already see that inner ships are victims of piracy. If the belters are moving supplies, then the OPA becomes responsible for losses and piracy. A Mars and Earth problem becomes an OPA problem. With how many planets there are, belters would have guaranteed jobs and the pirates would look less heroic when they are attacking belters to somehow help belters.
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Dec 16, 2019 00:56
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piL posted:RE: Economy Am I missing something? Why does the need for food, oxygen, and water go up so much?
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Dec 16, 2019 01:03
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Phenotype posted:Am I missing something? Why does the need for food, oxygen, and water go up so much? They have to stock up for the several weeks/months it takes to get where they are going.
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Dec 16, 2019 01:09
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Colony ships need to bring everything too, you don't know if there's even anything edible on the planet you're going to if you're the first ones. Probes will tell you about the atmosphere but you have to go to the surface to analyze proteins and poo poo.
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Dec 16, 2019 01:11
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sure is a good thing the food supplies are stable and doesn't cause problems
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Dec 16, 2019 02:14
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The one that took out the dinosaurs was something like 13 kilometers in radius, no ship in the expense is that big, not even Medina station, so the rock we've seen has to be significantly smaller. Size doesn't matter much. Speed and density do. Smaller asteroid? Drop it faster, use a slingshot or two if you're fancy.
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Dec 16, 2019 03:39
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Cojawfee posted:A smart move would have been to come to an agreement that belters get exclusive contracts to move supplies between new worlds and Earth and Mars. We already see that inner ships are victims of piracy. If the belters are moving supplies, then the OPA becomes responsible for losses and piracy. A Mars and Earth problem becomes an OPA problem. With how many planets there are, belters would have guaranteed jobs and the pirates would look less heroic when they are attacking belters to somehow help belters. The Belters are already given the privilege of manning the only station in the Ring in exchange for policing the area. I guess they could demand contracts as well, but they are already effectively in charge of logistics and handling issues of losses and piracy near the Ring. I guess it could be argued that the problem is that only the Tycho faction controls Medina Station, but are you suggesting that the UN and Mars effectively split all contracts with every single OPA faction?
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Dec 16, 2019 03:59
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Goddamn. Klaes is such a loving good character and so well acted.
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Dec 16, 2019 04:07
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