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Disclaimer: I am a Star Wars tragic. Albeit a resentful one. I am that dweeb in the cinema who gets excited and immediately emotionally invested just to see the old Star Wars stuff again. Y'know when you watch the Han Solo scene and you think: "Good lord this is schlock. Who's falling for this?" Yeaaah. Me. This is where the resent comes from because my brain KNOWS it's fan service and it's mostly poorly executed. So my brain is going: "Ugh" but the rest of me is squealing in excitement. ...This tends to wear off after I've seen it a few times. But I saw it the first time yesterday and simultaneously loved and hated it. From a narrative point of view, the film is weak as gently caress. Everything in the first two acts moves so drat fast that none of the scenes have any emotional weight and it's actually kinda hard to follow what the gently caress is going on. I don't think there were many plotholes as such, but some of it was pretty flimsy and weak. I also didn't like how heavily it leaned on the fan service. This is entirely why I still had a drat good time watching it even though I knew I was being played like a fiddle. Despite that: This movie felt...oddly self aware to me. I've grown to despise TLJ (after initial hype from fan service wore off). I think it really did butcher any potential that this trilogy had. The low-speed space chase was dumb, the casino world was videogame bullshit, the characters were loving painful and consistently made bad decisions that made things worse (but not in a fun, "Always Sunny in Tatooine" sorta way). However, from a story perspective, it wrote the current trilogy into a corner. The alliance was hosed, first order ruled everything, no Snoke, Rey and Ren had a confrontation that went nowhere... How the gently caress do you write yourself out of THAT mess? JJ had a pretty big job to do in this movie. He had to patch all that poo poo up, establish an epic threat, to create an epic finale for what was supposed to be an epic trilogy. To set that up, he had to do an epic hero journey, resolve a bunch of relationships and character arcs and cram in fan service to make tragic fanboys like me happy. In order to achieve all that in a respectable amount of time, things HAD to move at a breakneck speed and be vaguely convenient the whole way through. While doing that, there were a bunch of not-so-thinly-veiled insults at how poo poo TLJ was. Luke mentioning that a Lightsaber is worth more respect than to be thrown away is a great example. These insults to me was the movie being self-aware of itself. I felt like the whole time JJ was going: "Look, even I know this plot is a bit poo poo, but do you see what I had to work with? WHAT ELSE DO YOU SUGGEST I DO HERE" The two other people I saw it with had the same feeling. The plot was poo poo, but it knew it was poo poo, and it was just trying to get through this so we could all have a big, flashy ending, go home and move on with our lives. On that level, I can appreciate and enjoy this movie and will continue to do so. If I look too much closer at this movie, it will fall apart like fairy floss in water and I want to enjoy Star Wars so I will not do that.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:41
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:49 |
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Do Rian Johnson & JJ Abrams actually hate each other for some reason? Why are they passive-aggressively making Star Wars movies at each other?
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Dec 20, 2019 06:42
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romanowski posted:ben solo didn't even do anything redemption worthy. like so what if he revived rey. dude still helped blow up five planets at once well, even wanna be sith school shooters go to heaven.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:42
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Not my least favorite Star Wars movie - certainly well above The Phantom Menace (though for reasons more about The Phantom Menace than anything else). I think it lands somewhere like 3rd or 4th from the bottom - higher if you count the Christmas Special and Ewok movies. I was annoyed when bits of plot were just suddenly known or just dropped. They never did sort out the relationship tangle and instead expanded upon it. Finn getting all these Force-y feelings and making Poe a spice runner when the kind of bullshit he's pulled basically proves he's Force Sensitive as gently caress was upsetting. I did find the Force Bond saber handoff to be a fun and amusing ploy. I also liked that most the Star Destroyers were modeled after the classic line of Star Destroyers (minus, of course, the mini-superlaser). It was also cool that they had so many cameos even if most were 'blink and you miss it'. On the whole? I'm glad the series is ended as much as that money could have been better spent on more things like The Mandolorian. Honestly, I hope they'll learn from The Mandolorian and Rogue One and start taking a look at other aspects of the universe when movies inevitably start rolling out again. Doing an "XYZ movie but Superheroes" worked for Marvel and so far the most highly rated Star Wars stuff Disney has done has followed in the same mold (as did Solo but... that had a lot of other problems plus basically was another heist without the stakes of Rogue One). Anyways, time to see where the universe goes next.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:46
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H13 posted:. In order to achieve all that in a respectable amount of time, things HAD to move at a breakneck speed and be vaguely convenient the whole way through. too bad he didn't even attempt to achieve all that and just filled all that time with mcguffins and clunky exposition
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Dec 20, 2019 06:46
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I liked how they introduced rey and poe as having kind of incompatible personalities but then they just totally dropped that
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Dec 20, 2019 06:49
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romanowski posted:ben solo didn't even do anything redemption worthy. like so what if he revived rey. dude still helped blow up five planets at once But he's HOT so he's gotta be REDEEMED and he was REDEEMED by accepting GOOD and he accepted GOOD by standing up to EVIL and he was no longer EVIL therefore he is REDEEMED.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:49
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I'm still in the post-viewing afterglow a bit. It takes a spectacularly awful movie for me to feel bad about it so soon after exiting the theater, and this ain't one. I had a good time. I realized very quickly that it wasn't the kind of movie that I think Star Wars movies are. I want to take it as what it is, not what it isn't. So I'm gonna start by talking about what it isn't, in order to get it all out of my system. Here's the emblem of what it is not: I don't think that movie contained a single establishing shot with a spaceship landing. The last time JJ Abrams directed a Star Wars movie, it was ten years since the prequel trilogy ended and the first line was "This will begin to make things right." This time around, he immediately set about reversing the controversial direction of its predecessor. People joked about him giving Rey a connection to somebody important no matter what they said in The Last Jedi, but danged if he didn't literally do exactly that. Like, didn't the last one of these movies end with the Resistance down to just one ship? It's a mash-up of ideas from all the movies that came before it, not so much tying up loose ends as taking ends that had been tied up, untying them to set them loose, and then tying them up again. And it's very telling to notice which old ideas were exhumed and which were left undisturbed. A victory montage of Star Destroyers crashing on Bespin, Endor, and Jakku... right above the Star Destroyer that was already wrecked on Jakku... and then no other planets. We have Palpatine surviving as the host of an elemental evil force, the inheritor of the entire legacy of the Sith, but never once did they utter the name Darth Sidious. This is a movie that leans very, very hard on the charisma of its actors and the emotional heft of its score. Why did Ben decide to give up on his plans of empire and become nice? The answer is in Adam Driver's face. Why did all the spaceships in the galaxy decide to aid the Resistance now, when it was kind of important they didn't do it last time? The answer is in the London Symphony Orchestra's performance. This isn't a movie that's about what Star Wars is about. It's a movie that's about what Star Wars toys are about. So what are Star Wars toys about? Star Wars toys are about the memories of those moments of high emotion, and the longing for the resolution of the tension they offer. Things happen because it would be dramatic for them to happen. As for how they came to happen? Well, anyone playing who cares about that can fill in the blanks that would satisfy them. It doesn't matter why the battle lines were drawn where they are, only that all the good guy action figures are on one side of it and all the bad guy action figures are on the other side, and every last one of them is gonna do something awesome before they all get tipped over. I mean, hell, I still contain the person I was when I was seven years old, and that person never got tired of that poo poo. The epic battles I directed could fill sagas. I'm half-tempted to set up a little diorama right now. That mindset is real, and it's strong. Putting the entire movie in the playful mode, the mode that is easier to understand, the mode that is vastly more profitable, is a timid move. But given that bombastic gratification is the order of the day, the only complaint I can muster up that is actually relevant to that goal is that they shouldn't have illuminated that Sith Hole with a loving strobe light.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:50
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H13 posted:Disclaimer: I am a Star Wars tragic. Albeit a resentful one. I’m a bigger Star Wars cry baby than you and feel the complete opposite. TLJ was a masterpiece and this was a loving train wreck. None of the stupid poo poo in this movie had to happen because of the previous, unlike what Rian had to do. The opening crawl of JJs TFA was literally LUKE SKYWALKED HAS PIECED THE gently caress OUT and Rian did genuinely interesting stuff with everything given to him and ended TLJ on a note of optimism and hope and honored the past characters with some of the best moments we’ve seen (Yoda scene was amazing). The throne room fight scene was 10x better than the climactic fight of this movie. I can keep going but goddamn JJ is a bad closer after Rian. gently caress him hard for making Rose say “I’m not part of the crew anymore to appease lovely assholes online” Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 06:51
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Palpatine was a big fan of Alita and came back from the dead to make sure it would get sequels until it got to Gunnm: Last Order. His favourite character is Desty Nova, of course.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:54
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Bottom Liner posted:I’m a bigger Star Wars cry baby than you and feel the complete opposite. TLJ was a masterpiece and this was a loving train wreck. 
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Dec 20, 2019 06:54
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This was so loving bad. My theater audience literally laughed out loud at the kiss. By far Abrams' worst movie, and I hated Super 8 and Star Trek 2. This only beats the prequels on a basic acting/filming competency level. The writing is actually on par, possibly worse. Force Awakens and TLJ were so much better than this, I really don't know what the gently caress happened.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:55
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I love how they scrapped the old Expanded Universe only to do it again except worse. Evil Solo son. Super Mega Death Star. Palpatine Clones. Palpatine Grandchild! A Light Side to the Force. It's incredible.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:56
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Bottom Liner posted:I’m a bigger Star Wars cry baby than you and feel the complete opposite. TLJ was a masterpiece and this was a loving train wreck. None of the stupid poo poo in this movie had to happen because of the previous, unlike what Rian had to do. The opening crawl of JJs TFA crawl was literally LUKE SKYWALKED HAS PIECED THE gently caress OUT and Rian did genuinely interesting stuff with everything given to him and ended TLJ on a note of optimism and hope and honored the past characters with some of the best moments we’ve seen (Yoda scene was amazing). The throne room fight scene was 10x better than the climactic fight of this movie. I can keep going but goddamn JJ is a bad closer after Rian. Last Jedi had amazing ideas that were executed poorly. This movie had no ideas but was flashy as gently caress.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:56
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Please bring back the Yuuzhan Vong next.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:57
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Palpatine fucks
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Dec 20, 2019 06:58
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Pook Good Mook posted:Last Jedi had amazing ideas that were executed poorly. This movie had no ideas but was flashy as gently caress. What? Compare the throne room to the separated fight here. Cinematography and choreography? No contest. Compare the salt planet showdown to the dark blurry mess of the fleet battle here. Etc etc.
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Dec 20, 2019 06:58
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Bongo Bill posted:People joked about him giving Rey a connection to somebody important no matter what they said in The Last Jedi, but danged if he didn't literally do exactly that. uh those people weren't joking
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Dec 20, 2019 07:00
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Bottom Liner posted:gently caress him hard for making Rose say “I’m not part of the crew anymore to appease lovely assholes online” Yeah, I have to admit that soured me on the film super early on. "No Rose, sorry, you go away and... uh, Finn just treats you like poo poo for the rest of the film. Don't worry though he has a NEW girlfriend! Don't worry though she's black so you won't have to worry about any of that icky miscegenation! Also maybe she's going off with Lando because he's the only other black person in the universe besides Mace "I'm dead" Windu who is probably her great grandfather or something."
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Dec 20, 2019 07:00
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romanowski posted:ben solo didn't even do anything redemption worthy. like so what if he revived rey. dude still helped blow up five planets at once He was still evil, he just loved his mom and wanted to gently caress the hot chick on team Good Guy.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:01
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Pook Good Mook posted:Last Jedi had amazing ideas that were executed poorly. This movie had no ideas but was flashy as gently caress. this. i feel like i ENJOYED this more than i did the TLJ but i think the TLJ was probably a better movie as flawed as it was. this felt like TFA 2.0 with most of the same bugs and couple new ones and worse pacing but the cast kept me interested and i loved the sheer pulpy dumbness of it at times. loving palpatine getting loving DBZ death animation incinerated was great.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:02
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Guys what if we let loose the photoshop clone tool to give the first...uhh...last order a bajillion super super star destroyers but their fatal weakness is that they don’t know which way up is.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:02
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Bottom Liner posted:The throne room fight scene was 10x better than the climactic fight of this movie. I can keep going but goddamn JJ is a bad closer after Rian. The Throne Room fight in TLJ was some of the worst choreographed and edited action in any of the movies. Seriously. I like a lot of TLJ and I understand getting hype at a lightsaber team up but it is really not good. A Yuhzkan Vong trilogy would be cool but I doubt Disney is going anywhere near "space Vietnam" material.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:05
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Oh man, what the hell did I just watch? Random cameos everywhere (lol at the two seconds of Wedge), both Mark Hamil and Billy Dee WIlliams seemed either drunk or just completely stopped giving a poo poo, constantly lurching from one nonsensical plot point to the next.... Like how the hell did Palpatine unexplode himself and why did they think this time he's actually exploded for good? What was the point of the Knights of Ren? How did they man the giant mystery doom cannon fleet if only one ship has the magical doodad that allows things to travel there? I just have so many goddamn questions.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:07
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The Final Prophecy is already a good Star Wars movie title.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:07
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Mat Cauthon posted:The Throne Room fight in TLJ was some of the worst choreographed and edited action in any of the movies. Seriously. I like a lot of TLJ and I understand getting hype at a lightsaber team up but it is really not good. What would be the point, there aren't any Solo kids left for them to kill or corrupt. And also the Vong were stupid and boring.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:08
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Mat Cauthon posted:A Yuhzkan Vong trilogy would be cool but I doubt Disney is going anywhere near "space Vietnam" material. I personally loathed that whole part of the old EU. While it was different from the normal choices of "Superweapon of the Week" and "More Darkside Bullshit" it just never felt Star Wars to me. I'd rather explore some non-Jedi poo poo in the Star Wars universe for a while. Failing that, something KotOR inspired wouldn't be horrible.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:12
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Ugh, what a mess. Why did they even bother with the death star if they were building 4,000 star destroyers that can do the same loving thing. The timelines are too close to build a loving death star planet and 4,000 star destroyers. You didn't need to one up the original series. Just have the loving Emperor coming back. That's it. No need for some super army crap. And where did the 50,000 alliance ships suddenly pop out of loving nowhere. They were down to 50 people for the past year or whatever, now they have more people ready to fight than in Jedi? gently caress you and one upping again. Trash. The writing was all trash. I honestly can't decide if I dislike these more than episodes 1-3 or not. They might just be a tie so I don't have to think about it. The pew pew and effects and fan service were great. I enjoyed the action. But gently caress that dumb story. I'm glad it's over. Maybe they can get the dudes making the Mandalorian to do something.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:12
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How did they get Luke's lightsaber back? It was destroyed in TLJ. Did they make a new one and just say it was Luke's? How did they get it?
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Dec 20, 2019 07:14
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Hip-Hoptimus Rhyme posted:How did they get Luke's lightsaber back? It was destroyed in TLJ. Did they make a new one and just say it was Luke's? How did they get it? Turn your brain off. Space wizards. It’s just a movie.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:15
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Hip-Hoptimus Rhyme posted:How did they get Luke's lightsaber back? It was destroyed in TLJ. Did they make a new one and just say it was Luke's? How did they get it? You mean Anakin's? It's got a patch on it connecting the two halves. You can't see it very well, but it's there.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:16
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I had fun, but dear God was that so dumb. It just felt like the sequel to a alternate reality version of movie 8 that actually set any of this up. I mean that opening scroll was doing some heavy loving lifting. It just felt so self-indulgent. It was kinda like the opposite of TLJ in that it was a completely paint by numbers movie that took zero chances and relied on some extremely dumb cliches, but flowed pretty well. It wasn't Phantom Menace bad, but that's not saying a ton. Probably Revenge of the Sith tier The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 07:17
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Shaocaholica posted:Turn your brain off. Space wizards. It’s just a movie. Sir, it's a religion.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:20
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I would say that the biggest issue with the movie is that it did not flow well at all
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Dec 20, 2019 07:20
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Was Force healing ever a thing before this?
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Dec 20, 2019 07:23
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I've never been disappointed by a Star Wars movie until today. (The fact that I saw TPM as a 10 year old helped.) Paint by numbers fan service that fails to distinguish itself. All I can say about it right now is that I think it really nailed The Force. Maybe it'll get better with some more viewings, but it feels like a very pretty plate of food that just tasted bland and uninspired. And that dumb loving kiss. I rolled my eyes and took another big gulp of my mercifully boozy cocktail.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:24
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The way it goes out of its way to throw shade at TLJ must be bewildering to the average viewer. Like why the gently caress does this movie hate the previous one so much? It adds this weird meta text that’s just petty and will not hold up up at all. sponges fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 07:25
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There are filmmaking problems with this movie (bad pacing in the first act, too many characters introduced for no reason), but the arcs of the four main characters were pretty rock solid. Finn and Poe are leaders and Rey is the Last Jedi. Kylo Ren redeems himself and dies to save someone without blood and a bloodline on their hands. 3PO and Chewie round out the main cast and have great moments. All the cameos were superfluous, Leia just kinda... dies to turn Ben good I guess? It's fun, but weird. Mostly, though, I really loved how this took Lucas's bad themes - his intentions in telling a story of lineage, heritage, and legacy - and shits on it. Episodes I-VI are about the Skywalker bloodline and how Anakin has his dark destiny and Luke and his sister struggle with that darkness. It's about family. The weight their father brings upon them. The secret of two twins finding love and then their true selves. VII-IX are about finding your own family. Rey, Finn, and Poe and even Ren are not secretly related. There are things that bring them together but there's no bloodline there. It's outright stated by Luke that there are stronger things than blood and Rey lives this not by being a secret Skywalker like people originally thought she might be but by choosing the name Skywalker. I thought it was so modern thematically which perhaps takes away from the space opera of it all, but makes it work better for me in some ways as a part of the whole, even if it's not the best individual movie.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:25
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The Glumslinger posted:Was Force healing ever a thing before this? Not in the movies but it's been pretty common in a lot of side stuff. There's an argument to be made that Vader was doing something healingy in that weird pod in ESB but that's entirely side material. edit: Apparently it appeared in The Mandalorian?
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Dec 20, 2019 07:26
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sponges posted:The way it goes out of its way to throw shade at TLJ must be bewildering to the average viewer. Like why the gently caress does this movie hate the previous one so much? the average viewer didn't like tlj, hope this helps
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Dec 20, 2019 07:27
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