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H13 posted:So justify General Holdo's terrible loving decisions which resulted in a mutiny and a secret mission behind her back, that ended up dooming the resistance. They have a scene that specifically talks about the number of attempted desertions they're dealing with. Better tell everyone the secret plan so they can jump in an escape pod and have it mindfucked out of them by a space wizard
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Dec 20, 2019 10:42
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:There could be spies on the ship? Yes. And in this circumstance, everybody on that ship needed to know. "Hey General! Looks like we're all gonna die. Got any ideas?" "Yes, but you do not need to know how I am going to save your life or anybody elses. I am instead going to talk down to you and treat you like a loving moron for asking a perfectly reasonable question in regards to your immediate life expectancy" loving dumb. She was sold out by a spy in the end anyway wasn't she?
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Dec 20, 2019 10:42
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Tarnop posted:They have a scene that specifically talks about the number of attempted desertions they're dealing with. Better tell everyone the secret plan so they can jump in an escape pod and have it mindfucked out of them by a space wizard Yeah and not telling people how they were going to survive this mess (which is an absolute bullshit mess in the first place that doesn't make any sense) is only going to lead to MORE desertions isn't it? I mean that's great for building trust, faith, morale and hope in your crew.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:43
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Quantum Shart posted:Hahaha I can't believe people are blaming TLJ for this, it opened up the mythology in a way where if they had the gutts they could've gone in nearly any direction, instead they tried to go back to the boring retread that TFA was and hosed it up even more! Most of the Last Jedi haters love that poo poo though. They can't stand the fact that Luke hosed up and went off to pout and feel sorry for himself. The fact that the big bad guy gets cut down and dismissed as just being the "latest rear end in a top hat in charge" makes them see red. They want their own star wars fantasy to play out on screen instead of something original or interesting.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:44
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H13 posted:Yeah and not telling people how they were going to survive this mess (which is an absolute bullshit mess in the first place that doesn't make any sense) is only going to lead to MORE desertions isn't it? I mean that's great for building trust, faith, morale and hope in your crew. It doesn't though
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Dec 20, 2019 10:45
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H13 posted:Yes. And in this circumstance, everybody on that ship needed to know. I'm glad you aren't in charge of anything related to strategic decision making.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:46
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The Resistance are so stupid they deserve to lose.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:47
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Yeah, there's also a significant gap between judging a film for what its narrative goals are and judging it with ones's own narrative goals in mind. Typical hardcore fandom folk go for the latter when criticizing a film without ever considering the former. Also relevant: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1207878802464018437
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Dec 20, 2019 10:48
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I mean the point was to paint Poe as too up his own arse to believe in the plan, Holdo is Space Jesus and Poe is her Judas, he knows better cause don't you know who he is. His characterisation is even worse in TROS cause even though he did all that in TLS he still gives lip to Rey, he's a shitbag.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:48
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I dont think there is any scene that distills what a bankrupt nerd homunculus JJ is more than the one with force ghost luke teaching Rey boomer wisdom "Rey you don't need the dumbass mcguffin to find your way to the secret sith planet like it is a loving Destiny 2 quest!" "No not because the force always there for you and you should use it you have another mcguffin in the fighter you stole lolll go to the next checkpoint" what a waste of a stellar cast of actors and best artists disney money could buy
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Dec 20, 2019 10:48
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I’m glad Babu Frikk survives
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Dec 20, 2019 10:48
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:Most of the Last Jedi haters love that poo poo though. They can't stand the fact that Luke hosed up and went off to pout and feel sorry for himself. The fact that the big bad guy gets cut down and dismissed as just being the "latest rear end in a top hat in charge" makes them see red. They want their own star wars fantasy to play out on screen instead of something original or interesting. The only thing funnier than these movies is the fan fiction surrounding it.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:49
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:I'm glad you aren't in charge of anything related to strategic decision making. She was effectively Baldrick from Blackadder going: "I HAVE A CUNNING PLAN" Which then hosed up completely. Much like Baldrick from Blackadder. Look, if she told Poe what was going on, there wouldn't have been a mutiny, the secret mission wouldn't have happened, which means she wouldn't have got sold out, which means her perfectly sound and reasonable plan MIGHT have actually worked. So aside from the end result of her leadership being: "hosed everything up" it all worked really well and she made fantastic decisions yeah? Grandpa Palpatine posted:Most of the Last Jedi haters love that poo poo though. They can't stand the fact that Luke hosed up and went off to pout and feel sorry for himself. The fact that the big bad guy gets cut down and dismissed as just being the "latest rear end in a top hat in charge" makes them see red. They want their own star wars fantasy to play out on screen instead of something original or interesting. The purpose of the middle movie in a trilogy is to set things up for the finale. TLJ set NOTHING up and instead kinda destroyed everything in the name of "subverting expectations".
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Dec 20, 2019 10:50
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teagone posted:tweet oh my GOD https://twitter.com/_LukeCSkywalker/status/1028135712569212928
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Dec 20, 2019 10:50
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Quantum Shart posted:Hahaha I can't believe people are blaming TLJ for this, it opened up the mythology in a way where if they had the gutts they could've gone in nearly any direction, instead they tried to go back to the boring retread that TFA was and hosed it up even more! TLJ didn't open up mythology in any way. TLJ iself didn't have the gutts to actually go anywhere. The only interesting threads were already closed off at the end of the film. I'm not as much blaming TLJ for TROS being a retread, as I'm saying that TLJ itself was already a retread by the end. The most obvious thing is the need to revert back to the OT status quo of the Empire (First Order) controlling the Galaxy with the Rebels (Resistance) being the weaker underdogs. This was not the setup from the end of TFA and was entirely established by TLJ. Tarnop posted:I like it when studios respond to legitimate criticisms like racists not wanting an Asian woman in the movie. You do? I don't.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:51
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Rise of Skywalker sucks poo poo out of an rear end in a top hat. It's just as bad as the loving prequels, Christ.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:51
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:Most of the Last Jedi haters love that poo poo though. They can't stand the fact that Luke hosed up and went off to pout and feel sorry for himself. The fact that the big bad guy gets cut down and dismissed as just being the "latest rear end in a top hat in charge" makes them see red. They want their own star wars fantasy to play out on screen instead of something original or interesting. Maybe you should actually engage with the criticism presented in this thread instead of creating strawman TLJ haters. The fact that some people hate a movie for stupid reasons doesn't mean it's good or that there aren't any actual things to criticise.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:53
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Buncha broke brains. Fun to read, lmao.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:53
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Captain Jesus posted:The most obvious thing is the need to revert back to the OT status quo of the Empire (First Order) controlling the Galaxy with the Rebels (Resistance) being the weaker underdogs. This was not the setup from the end of TFA and was entirely established by TLJ. They literally had a "what if death planet" in the TFA, and this had "What if death star x 1,000" and you say TLJ was a retread lmfao
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Dec 20, 2019 10:54
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H13 posted:She was effectively Baldrick from Blackadder going: "I HAVE A CUNNING PLAN" If she told Poe what was going on, he would have decided it was a cowardly plan, mutinied, got captured, and had the plan extracted from him by Kylo Ren. Guess we can both make up poo poo that could have happened in a work of fiction.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:54
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Quantum Shart posted:oh so you're really leaning into dumb misogynist part of the crit lmao log off twitter its turning your brain to mush
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Dec 20, 2019 10:54
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Captain Jesus posted:TLJ didn't open up mythology in any way. TLJ iself didn't have the gutts to actually go anywhere. The only interesting threads were already closed off at the end of the film. I'm not as much blaming TLJ for TROS being a retread, as I'm saying that TLJ itself was already a retread by the end. The most obvious thing is the need to revert back to the OT status quo of the Empire (First Order) controlling the Galaxy with the Rebels (Resistance) being the weaker underdogs. This was not the setup from the end of TFA and was entirely established by TLJ. I just watched the first two and this is just completely wrong. TFA makes it very clear that the republic is being soft on the first order, and won't approve a real military, but sanction Leia and a very small band is resistance fighters. Then the first order loving blows up five planets or whatever and totally destroys the republic. TLJ has an ending that literally sets up the resistance growing thanks to the signal getting sent, and the idea that help is coming, that ROS then completely loving fumbles in the dumbest way, which isn't even the worst thing it did in trying to erase TLJ.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:55
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Just got out. Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Dec 20, 2019 10:56
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Vince MechMahon posted:Rise of Skywalker sucks poo poo out of an rear end in a top hat. It's just as bad as the loving prequels, Christ. yeah I think only Clones is worse than Rise from all the main films - it is just as stupid but also is agressively ugly (at least basic disney assembly line competency kept Rise from that)
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Dec 20, 2019 10:57
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Captain Jesus posted:Maybe you should actually engage with the criticism presented in this thread instead of creating strawman TLJ haters. The fact that some people hate a movie for stupid reasons doesn't mean it's good or that there aren't any actual things to criticise. You can flip that around and say just because people point out things they don't like about a movie means it's a bad movie just as well. No one is saying you can't criticize a movie here. TLJ has its issues, definitely, but imo they're not enough to ever make it a legitimately "bad" movie. [edit] TROS on the other hand, I feel is super mediocre as the capstone film to the Skywalker saga, but I still found it mostly entertaining.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:58
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This movie is dog poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:58
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Tarnop posted:If she told Poe what was going on, he would have decided it was a cowardly plan, mutinied, got captured, and had the plan extracted from him by Kylo Ren. You have absolutely nothing to base that on. Now I feel like I'm getting trolled Maybe you forgot what happens in TLJ. However Rose\Finn get captured for Space Parking violations, put into jail, which is where they meet Del Toro, who sells out Holdo's plan to the First Order. So if they were never at that Casino (which would've improved the movie already), they would have never met Del Toro, never got sold out and it may have actually worked because her TOP SECRET plan was actually perfectly reasonable and not worth keeping secret from her crew at all.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:58
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teagone posted:Yeah, there's also a significant gap between judging a film for what its narrative goals are and judging it with ones's own narrative goals in mind. Typical hardcore fandom folk go for the latter when criticizing a film without ever considering the former. Lol at RJ using ‘binary’ as a slur.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:59
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fatherboxx posted:yeah I at least liked the obi stuff in clones. I'd say menace is still the worst with this as a close fuckin second though.
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Dec 20, 2019 10:59
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Quantum Shart posted:They literally had a "what if death planet" in the TFA, and this had "What if death star x 1,000" and you say TLJ was a retread lmfao It's a retread of Empire. The chase scene is the Millenium Falcon attempting to escape Vader's pursuit. Salt Planet is Cloud City, Rey goes to learn from a Jedi Master, In the end the Empire have won a decisive victory and the heroes are licking their wounds. Just because you "subvert expectations" by twisting the way it happened in empire, doesn't mean it's not a retread. TFA's a retread of A New Hope, TLJ is a retread of Empire and ROS is a retread of Return. If Last Jedi had ended on the ship like so many wanted with Rey either taking or being hinted to take Kylo's hand and joining him and going "Yeah, gently caress all this Sith and Jedi nonsense" then yes, it might have been original.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:01
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I honestly think the opening crawl leading with ‘the dead rises!’ Or whatever is one thing that immediately put off a lot of people. It ruined the surprise. I swear this movie had twice as much dialog as TLJ. They could probably cut so much and the movie would be better for it. Show, don’t tell, etc. I wonder if any alternate edits will ever come out... All in all still enjoyed it though! teagone posted:The work that Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver put into this movie is super commendable. The story might be wishy washy, but gently caress if those two didn't turn in some really good performances. Kylo Ren doesn't really have a ton of dialogue, but Driver's physical and facial acting was super loving solid. Here here!
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Dec 20, 2019 11:01
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Why is BB-8 with Rey at the end? That’s Poe’s droid. He loves that droid.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:03
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Oh and to clarify this movie is worse than The Last Jedi because this is a movie churned out by committee. You can feel the billion hands all over it slowly tugging and pulling every microsecond in an attempt to create a movie to 'appeal to everyone' which in turn makes a movie that appeals to no one.Robotnik Nudes posted:Why is BB-8 with Rey at the end? That’s Poe’s droid. He loves that droid. Because originally it was the entire cast at the end.  I downloaded the image these leaks are from on the 25th of October, they are 97% correct, with the only incorrect things being the most minor details.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:03
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Onmi posted:It's a retread of Empire. The chase scene is the Millenium Falcon attempting to escape Vader's pursuit. Salt Planet is Cloud City, Rey goes to learn from a Jedi Master, In the end the Empire have won a decisive victory and the heroes are licking their wounds. Bingo. And nobody ever stressed about the Falcon running out of fuel either... Instead, their ship got damaged in the fight and they had to repair it, while flying through asteroid fields and getting shot at. AKA: Organic tension rather than "making-up-bullshit-which-has-never-been-in-this-series-before" AKA: Artifical tension which never really works because the moment you recognise the artificial tension, you notice that you're watching a movie so suddenly you can see everybody's plot armour.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:03
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teagone posted:You can flip that around and say just because people point out things they don't like about a movie means it's a bad movie just as well. No one is saying you can't criticize a movie here. TLJ has its issues, definitely, but imo they're not enough to ever make it a legitimately "bad" movie. The guy with the palpatine avatar was saying that tros was bad because people criticized TLJ, which is what i was reacting to.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:04
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H13 posted:"making-up-bullshit-which-has-never-been-in-this-series-before" . All of Star Wars is this sorry
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Dec 20, 2019 11:08
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H13 posted:You have absolutely nothing to base that on. Now I feel like I'm getting trolled I think Poe does enough prior to that point to indicate that he: - strongly prefers acts of individual heroism over collective action - prefers aggressive action over defensive - will act against authority when these preferences are at stake - gets captured fairly easily by the First Order - can have important poo poo extracted from his brain by Kylo I'm not trolling you, these are observable traits that Poe has prior to the mutiny and I think they support what I suggested might happen if the plan was shared with him.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:12
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Which side in the wars are the prequels on? And which side is Hitler on? He wanna destroy the Star War or no? That's how wars are won. Not by destroying what we hate, but by making terrible sequels to beloved touchstones.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:13
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teagone posted:The work that Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver put into this movie is super commendable. The story might be wishy washy, but gently caress if those two didn't turn in some really good performances. Kylo Ren doesn't really have a ton of dialogue, but Driver's physical and facial acting was super loving solid. They're Tom Hardy in Star Trek Nemesis: they kind of suspect their movie is going to be bad, but they're consummate professionals doing their best to turn in the most compelling performances possible with the material they've been given. God I hope Boyega, Ridley and Driver don't get the Tom Hardy treatment because of this Bad Movie (and arguable Trilogy Of Bad Movies). They're all super talented actors who deserve better films than Disney's uninspired starwar toy commercials.
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Dec 20, 2019 11:13
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TLJ is a poor story because of how it treats Finn, Poe, and Rose. TRoS seems to double-down further on that treatment, or ignore the characters completely. It's incredibly obvious choices yet depressingly systemic at the same time. No matter how much TLJ attempted to progress past Star Wars nostalgia, it failed to do so by treating those three characters the way it did - or rather, the way several people involved in the creative process and those who tell the creatives what to do, did. None of those were the actors themselves for the record, and it's lovely what Boyega, Issac, and especially Tran have gone through after clearly giving their all to these films. Of all the giant companies Disney could absolutely take huge risks with Star Wars and lose very little, but they want to be as safe as possible with the most milquetoast mediocrity.Onmi posted:If Last Jedi had ended on the ship like so many wanted with Rey either taking or being hinted to take Kylo's hand and joining him and going "Yeah, gently caress all this Sith and Jedi nonsense" then yes, it might have been original. Rogue One demonstrates The Force is far more than Jedi/Sith crap and I took it as a suggestion along with Ahsoka Tano leaving the Jedi Order in Clone Wars and operating independently in Rebels as the franchise headed that way, but nope! Gotta keep having all those star wars!
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Dec 20, 2019 11:16
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