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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Leith Maclaine posted:

Okay fine:

I am not able to work with other players outside the game thread.

I've already agreed that my phrasing was poor, and spelled out why earlier.

It was a snap response to a claim that, at the time, hadn't had anything more that the claim to it.

To me, the correct response of the entire thread to a lie detector claim is for every single person to make a post that the lue detector can choose, or not choose, to investigate.

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Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

2 penny bottle imp posted:

What is the point of this? Really oddly specific thing to say. Doesn't clear you either. Could be SK with this, for example.

It is more of a clear than I have the ability to kill and looking for a lie to come about.

I'm not the one asking for it to be lie detected. I think asking to be lie detected on day 0 as Amnistar did doesn't make sense. But I am saying things in my discussion with him that could be checked by a lie detector since he is saying a direct faction claim couldn't be lie detected.

I'll see if I can think of a better clear statement in the morning.

But to be clear, I don't think the statement "I have the ability to kill people" and thinking it turning up as a lie will clear anything up.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
im with gulag here

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

GulagDolls posted:

*grabs a machine gun and guns down this entire page*

Sorry for derailing the game into this with my actions.

I'll reread people pushing it tommorrow and see if anyone comes across as disingenuous to me.

The actual lie detection part doesnt matter, but I gurantee that someone pushing against me right now is just doing so because it's easy, and not because they actually think I'm scum.

Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.
If there is a lie detector in this game, and as an aside I am not convinced there is, waiving a huge flag and saying lie detect this in order to get a false positive that could be explained away does not seem a good tactic.

Amnistar now says his phrasing was poor.

I am agreeing with Squiggly and think it was more than that.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

Amnistar posted:

Sorry for derailing the game into this with my actions.

I'll reread people pushing it tommorrow and see if anyone comes across as disingenuous to me.

The actual lie detection part doesnt matter, but I gurantee that someone pushing against me right now is just doing so because it's easy, and not because they actually think I'm scum.

nep's case on imp was prety good for d1 stuff

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

Leith Maclaine posted:

If there is a lie detector in this g

SHUT THUE gently caress U

Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.
Going to sleep now to stop this chain for the time being. Everyone can breath a sigh of relief.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Leith Maclaine posted:

Amnistar now says his phrasing was poor.

Amnistar posted:

Yea, I thought about the fact that execution can also be killing someone pater in the day, but the detection had been claimed to be used so I thought gently caress whatever.

Nep-Nep
May 15, 2004

Just one more thing!

GulagDolls posted:

*grabs a machine gun and guns down this entire page*

This is the towniest post in the thread

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Nep-Nep posted:

This is the towniest post in the thread

no this is:

im town

Nep-Nep
May 15, 2004

Just one more thing!

Mr. Steak posted:

no this is:

im town

I tried used my metal detector on that statement. That statement contains no metal except for a soda can pulltab which took me like 2 minutes to sift out.

birdstrike
Oct 30, 2008

i;m gay
nep Nep. you’re skating on thin ice, rookie

birdstrike
Oct 30, 2008

i;m gay

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I am not Australian.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
I read squig as legit in their stance. Leith feels forced to me, especially considering how long it took for the vote to come out.

Neo's case on imp is very valid as well.

I doubt both of them are scum though, and I'm more sold on leith.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Mr. Steak posted:

i dont like it. risking a lie detect being used on your post is just about the safest gambit a scum can make. first of all the lie detector claim was transparently false anyway, but even if it wasnt, who would even think its likely for the person to use their presumably 1-shot power on day 1 at all? as someone who, as you know, recently modded a game with a lie detector role in it, i know how eager scum are to post pretending they want to get tested, because the risk is so low for the amount of town cred it gives you. and besides that game, my only other experience with the role even being mentioned, was of course a moment i'll never forget in avengers mafia, when the soon-to-be-dunked sk taste was begging for "if there's a lie detector, test me that im not scum". so no i very much do not read amni's response as townie.

that said tho, your point on swuiggs is intriguing... i highly doubt it's a smoking gun, but interesting nonetheless

lol i disagree with like every part of this post, especially given that amni's post was fairly unambiguous unlike your example of a SK trying to get lie detected as not scum, this doesn't take into account Amni's actual provided justification of trying to get a FALSE result which would, again, be perfectly unambiguous. The fact that 2bit imp agrees with this is another mark against them.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I'm moving my vote back to ##vote tuppence djinni, they keep ignoring my pointed requests for taking firm stances in a way that's pinging me. They dropped this weak shade and never actually expanded it into a real read:

2 penny bottle imp posted:

Yeah kind of funny that my vote got so much traction from semi-lurkers.

Crazy world out there. *sips coffee*

Also, they were so intent on Gulag, and then when the narrative tide shifted against Amnistar, they dropped a vote. They haven't even mentioned their reads on Gulag again after being so comically intent on them early on - feels like scum backing away from bait that nobody bit on.

Take a look at how they build up to their vote on Amnistar:

2 penny bottle imp posted:

No, I read it as a claim of vig, paranoid gun owner, or similar (or fakeclaim of same). Doesn't read as scum / SK to me.

2 penny bottle imp posted:

Let me clarify here - it doesn't read as a scum claim to me. It does read as not a great townie move.

[in response to Amnistar doing a big list/read post]

2 penny bottle imp posted:

Seems like a scummy post to me. Lots of opinions, but included within is praise for mr. steak and me, both of whom disliked the nightkilling softclaim.

This is a really weird reason to call someone scummy!

This is the part that really boggles me - check out this conversational progression:

Amnistar posted:

People I think are not town:
GulagDolls - Lost of posts, no actual content. Is actively eengaging in the thread without playing the game.

Mr. Humalong posted:

Your read of gulag is not great. This is the most I’ve seen out of Gulag wrt stating opinions in a long time

2 penny bottle imp posted:

Agreed with this as well. Gonna go ahead and ##vote Amnistar.

In short, Imp is finally voting Amnistar for their scumread on Gulag - after Imp staunchly had a vote on Gulag for most of the early part of D1 and even confirmed it was a serious vote.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Amnistar posted:

I made it as a snap post in response to someone claiming to have the ability to detect lies. I figured that there would be limitations to alignment posts, so I though, what is the best way to clear up that you're not on a team opposing town. That involves nightkills so I posted that I can kill people.

I had sasumed that the instant a lie detector claim caame out, *everyone* would post something similiar, and allow the lie detector to choose what post to detect. And the fact that the ability was claimed told me it was going to get used.

Like, again, I cannot emphasize enough how townie the progression around the lie detector claim is for Amnistar. Their post came immediately after Birb's:

Bernstrike posted:

I have a lie detector

Amnistar posted:

I have the ability to kill people.

Amnistar posted:

Not sure if legit claiming and if you have any restrictions, but I'm fine putting that down, just in case.

The ONLY way that I see this shaking out differently is if Amni and Birb are scum together and coordinated this somehow, but that's far enough out there Occam's Razor says I'm discarding it for now. I would completely and fully expect scum to waffle or think about how to game it rather than just instantly dropping that with an expectation of a FALSE result. People banging on about how this "wastes" a lie detector usage are talking nonsense, clearing someone as town (or at least a non-killing role) is perfectly valid. Dumb reason to be pushing Amni.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Leith Maclaine posted:

Mr. Steak - They haven't made a mistake yet and that is very un steak like.

:thurman:

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Leith Maclaine posted:

Your statement was

I have the ability to kill people.

Which is not a clear cut town versus scum claim. There are Towne roles that can "kill".


You could also be taking advantage of the setup which a "kill" is called administrative leave so that the statement "I have the ability to kill people" may mean nothing in this game if it was lie detected.

Your attempt to clear town does nothing of the sort.

Now a statement like

I am not a member of internal affairs.

That would be a clear statement but I have the ability to kill people isn't clear.

This is a really dumb rabbit hole to go down, I advise you to stop focusing so hard on it and think about who the scum are. Again, look at timing - do you think that Amni went through this entire thought process and posted their lie detector claim within a minute of birb posting it?

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Amnistar posted:

I read squig as legit in their stance. Leith feels forced to me, especially considering how long it took for the vote to come out.

Neo's case on imp is very valid as well.

I doubt both of them are scum though, and I'm more sold on leith.

I'm not a fan of Squiggly focusing on one tiny point out of everything else and not engaging with much else in the thread.

How do you feel about Paul RFS?

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Capturing this interesting vote split for later consideration:

Votecount for Day 1

Amnistar (4): Squiggly, 2 penny bottle imp, Bernstrike, Leith Maclaine
GulagDolls (3): Amnistar, 2 penny bottle imp, Dancer, Amnistar, Paul ReiserFS, Anomalous Amalgam, 2 penny bottle imp
2 penny bottle imp (3): Bernstrike, GulagDolls, Podima, Podima, Podima, Podima, Podima, Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak, Bernstrike, GulagDolls, Podima, Nep-Nep, GulagDolls, Podima
Bernstrike (2): Bernstrike, Bernstrike, Tommu, Hal Incandenza, Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak
Leith Maclaine (2): Amnistar, Mr. Humalong, Nep-Nep, Nep-Nep
Squiggly (1): Podima, Anomalous Amalgam, Podima, Anomalous Amalgam, Podima, GulagDolls, Mr. Steak, GulagDolls, Podima
Paul ReiserFS (0): GulagDolls, GulagDolls
Nep-Nep (0): Sandwolf, Sandwolf
Hal Incandenza (0): Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam
Mr. Humalong (0): GulagDolls, GulagDolls
Mr. Steak (0): Mr. Humalong, Mr. Humalong, Bernstrike, Bernstrike
Sandwolf (0): Bernstrike, Bernstrike
Podima (0): Amnistar, Amnistar, Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak

Not Voting (1): Sandwolf

With 16 alive, it's 9 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 21st, 2019 at 11:59 p.m. CST -- that's in about 13 hours, 15 minutes.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Podima posted:

I'm not a fan of Squiggly focusing on one tiny point out of everything else and not engaging with much else in the thread.

How do you feel about Paul RFS?

I dont understand how they can think someone posting reads of people is a bad thing day 1.


I think they are wrong, but I dont think they are disenenious in their stance.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I won’t vote Amnistar today.

Squiggly
Jan 25, 2006

I'm Your Huckleberry

Leith Maclaine posted:

If there is a lie detector in this game, and as an aside I am not convinced there is, waiving a huge flag and saying lie detect this in order to get a false positive that could be explained away does not seem a good tactic.

Amnistar now says his phrasing was poor.

I am agreeing with Squiggly and think it was more than that.

Okay buddy we never agree

You just shot up on my scumdar

Squiggly
Jan 25, 2006

I'm Your Huckleberry

Podima posted:

I'm not a fan of Squiggly focusing on one tiny point out of everything else and not engaging with much else in the thread.

How do you feel about Paul RFS?

I show up late, find something legit scummy, and you're upset there's not more to comment on day 1

This is loving weak

Leith Maclaine
Mar 2, 2018

Adventure comes from insufficient planning.

Squiggly posted:

Okay buddy we never agree

You just shot up on my scumdar

Far be it for me to think you made a reasonable case. I apologize for daring to think you made sense for once. Won't make that mistake again.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


This has been some of the most intense white noise posting over a D1

2 penny bottle imp
Jun 11, 2008

I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SCUMMER

Podima posted:

I'm moving my vote back to ##vote tuppence djinni, they keep ignoring my pointed requests for taking firm stances in a way that's pinging me.




I don't like giving opinions on people I dont have opinions on. Day 1 is too early for mass lists of how you feel about everyone. Allows fake connections to be made too easily in future days.

quote:


In short, Imp is finally voting Amnistar for their scumread on Gulag - after Imp staunchly had a vote on Gulag for most of the early part of D1 and even confirmed it was a serious vote.


Nah, I gave multiple reasons for the vote. It's day 1. Don't try too hard to build the Theory of Everything.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

2 penny bottle imp posted:

I don't like giving opinions on people I dont have opinions on. Day 1 is too early for mass lists of how you feel about everyone. Allows fake connections to be made too easily in future days.

it also holds them accountable for opinions, which in the case of scum are faked. its a good thing for opinions to be documented. i agree with you that d1 is too early to have useful opinions on *everybody* but as long as a list includes a handful of entries that read "i dont know yet" i literally dont see a problem with it. and if you're trying to say that making a list of opinions is worse than giving opinions on nobody at all, then... hmm

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Sandwolf posted:

This has been some of the most intense white noise posting over a D1

I was just catching up and totally felt the same way

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

With 8 hours to go I’m going to vote the leader I feel the worst about. I think most of the votes on Amni are incredibly disingenuous at best, and I don’t have a scum read of gulag at this point, so ##vote cheap imp

Squiggly
Jan 25, 2006

I'm Your Huckleberry

Hal Incandenza posted:

I was just catching up and totally felt the same way

Games I didn't realize Hal was in for 200, Alex

Squiggly
Jan 25, 2006

I'm Your Huckleberry

Mr. Humalong posted:

With 8 hours to go I’m going to vote the leader I feel the worst about. I think most of the votes on Amni are incredibly disingenuous at best, and I don’t have a scum read of gulag at this point, so ##vote cheap imp

Why is voting the scummiest thing posted today disingenuous?

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Squiggly posted:

Games I didn't realize Hal was in for 200, Alex

I didn't know you were here either! Great to see you buddy!

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Squiggly posted:

Why is voting the scummiest thing posted today disingenuous?

I mean it's totally possible that people don't think Amni "lying" was quite what you are making it out to be.

I guess I'm not seeing why you would be so sold on this read

Mikujin
May 25, 2010

(also a lightning rod)

Votecount for Day 1

Amnistar (4): Squiggly, 2 penny bottle imp, Bernstrike, Leith Maclaine
2 penny bottle imp (4): Bernstrike, GulagDolls, Podima, Podima, Podima, Podima, Podima, Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak, Bernstrike, GulagDolls, Podima, Nep-Nep, GulagDolls, Podima, Mr. Humalong
GulagDolls (3): Amnistar, 2 penny bottle imp, Dancer, Amnistar, Paul ReiserFS, Anomalous Amalgam, 2 penny bottle imp
Bernstrike (2): Bernstrike, Bernstrike, Tommu, Hal Incandenza, Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak
Squiggly (1): Podima, Anomalous Amalgam, Podima, Anomalous Amalgam, Podima, GulagDolls, Mr. Steak, GulagDolls, Podima
Leith Maclaine (1): Amnistar, Mr. Humalong, Nep-Nep, Nep-Nep, Mr. Humalong
Paul ReiserFS (0): GulagDolls, GulagDolls
Nep-Nep (0): Sandwolf, Sandwolf
Hal Incandenza (0): Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam
Mr. Humalong (0): GulagDolls, GulagDolls
Mr. Steak (0): Mr. Humalong, Mr. Humalong, Bernstrike, Bernstrike
Sandwolf (0): Bernstrike, Bernstrike
Podima (0): Amnistar, Amnistar, Mr. Steak, Mr. Steak

Not Voting (1): Sandwolf

With 16 alive, it's 9 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 21st, 2019 at 11:59 p.m. CST -- that's in about 6 hours, 26 minutes.

:siren: Deadline is hard - I'll be here for it! Please submit your night actions to me within 24 hours or the end of day (or they will be forfeit). They can be sent via SA PM or - preferably - recorded in your Discord journals. :siren:

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
##vote bern

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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Case on Amni is the weird lie detector role stuff right?

What’s the case on imp?

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