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Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013

You guys need to let Star Wars go. I do too. Who needs it anymore? We have CATS now.

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KidVanguard
Jan 27, 2006

American Diaper
They should give the whole ST to Jon Favreau.

For real though if Johnson threw away JJ’s treatment who was there that let him do it without making sure it worked with the third movie? Who was the adult in the room?

Or did Disney just hand it to two different directors and ignore everything until now?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

KidVanguard posted:

They should give the whole ST to Jon Favreau.

For real though if Johnson threw away JJ’s treatment who was there that let him do it without making sure it worked with the third movie? Who was the adult in the room?

Or did Disney just hand it to two different directors and ignore everything until now?

Well, theoretically Kathleen Kennedy and the Story Group were the adults in the room. But seeing as JJ pretty blatantly ignored the efforts of the latter, the one who should have been in charge is Kathleen. And I mean... I guess they figured that whoever did the third movie would figure it out. Remember that wasn't planned to be JJ, he was brought in when it was clear the 3rd movie was going to hell in a handbasket.

TIN0
Oct 17, 2019

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Is there a comprehensive chart on different McGuffins in each JJ movies? because this movie must hold the record for most McGuffins mentioned in one single Abramovie.

Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013

On reflection I think the stupidest bit was when Rey held the dagger up to the big chunk of Death Star and somehow that told her where to go.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Robotnik Nudes posted:

On reflection I think the stupidest bit was when Rey held the dagger up to the big chunk of Death Star and somehow that told her where to go.

Oh, by the way, I feel the need to clear up something, no, the Death Star Destroyers are not all powered by miniaturized Death Star Tech they had all the way back in Return of the Jedi, that would be silly. No, they're Death Star Equivalent cannons all powered by Sheev-energy. So yes, Sheev has the power to destroy planets.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Sorry I'm sure this has been covered but, how much time does the sequel trilogy actually cover? It feels like literally about a week goes by from the start of TFA to the end of RoS.

Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013

I liked the part where her friends fighting didn’t mean poo poo cause all she had to do was kill Palpatine to beat the fleet and the whole space flight had no point.

I didn’t want to watch this movie but it felt like going to a funeral. Just a sad obligation.

You know what’s really interesting though and WAY better than Star Wars retreads is CATS which is ridiculously creative and unique and as bizarre and scary as it is it’s something really fascinating and new in cinema.

Horizon Burning
Oct 23, 2019
:discourse:

KidVanguard posted:

They should give the whole ST to Jon Favreau.

For real though if Johnson threw away JJ’s treatment who was there that let him do it without making sure it worked with the third movie? Who was the adult in the room?

Or did Disney just hand it to two different directors and ignore everything until now?

Onmi posted:

Well, theoretically Kathleen Kennedy and the Story Group were the adults in the room. But seeing as JJ pretty blatantly ignored the efforts of the latter, the one who should have been in charge is Kathleen. And I mean... I guess they figured that whoever did the third movie would figure it out. Remember that wasn't planned to be JJ, he was brought in when it was clear the 3rd movie was going to hell in a handbasket.

Apparently, Abrams rejected or fought against the Story Group and Kennedy's suggestions as much as possible, whereas Johnson was more receptive. With that in mind, the reason why they let Johnson throw out Abrams' ideas makes much more sense.

nerdbot
Mar 16, 2012

Thinking about how much more satisfied people would be, even if it was only slightly, if Kylo Ren meeting Sheev for the first time had gone down with him asking how he's still alive, and Palpatine chuckles and says "Have you ever heard of the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?" and it just cuts to the next scene from there.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Horizon Burning posted:

Apparently, Abrams rejected or fought against the Story Group and Kennedy's suggestions as much as possible, whereas Johnson was more receptive. With that in mind, the reason why they let Johnson throw out Abrams' ideas makes much more sense.

See ya can't do that. Lucas might be kinda frightening to work with because even when other Directors were doing a film he was basically looking over things and making sure the project was happening. Even Empire despite the popular rumour that it was so good because he didn't do anything, he was very organized in getting everything together and cleaning up production. At the end of the day, someone needs to be The Boss, and before it was Lucas and everyone knew it, so if something hosed up it was on him, if it was good it was on him.

That's the disgusting part of this trilogy... everyone's to blame except for the actors, who are trying so loving hard with what they've been given. Like they stated their reason to get rid of the EU was to give the directors more creative freedom, because like every year up until the end of life itself was heavily catalogued in the EU, I'm pretty sure with the next season of Clone Wars that there officially exists like no year in the Clone Wars where we don't know exactly where everyone is. So I get it... but then the directors didn't do anything with it. Like... what stops the next Star Wars director popping in and going "Luke went on a tear from like the end of Return to I dunno... 14 years later, so he's just like... impregnated half the galaxy, there are so many Skywalkers." You need someone who can step in there and go "No, that's not allowed."

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Martman posted:

Sorry I'm sure this has been covered but, how much time does the sequel trilogy actually cover? It feels like literally about a week goes by from the start of TFA to the end of RoS.

TFA and TLJ are a few days, max. RoS is a year or so later.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Doctor Spaceman posted:

TFA and TLJ are a few days, max. RoS is a year or so later.
I guess the main sign that time has passed is that Rey is better at making rocks float...

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
The whole 'sequel picks up literally immediately where the last one left off' thing... reeaaally wasn't a good idea for Star Wars especially.

Dishwasher
Dec 5, 2006

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Tender Bender posted:

My friend pointed out that Kylo's big change of heart conversation was probably meant to be with force ghost Leia, not memory of Han, and there was probably more context instead of Leia just walking away and Maz explaining she's gonna kill herself. Which makes sense, but they should have rewritten that whole bit instead of just swapping out Leia for part of it.

I disagree. I just rewatched TFA and the implication was that, while they both would have to reach out to him (which ended up happening in RoS) an actual conversation face-to-face with Han was the only thing that would bring him back ("You're his father"). I think its with his Dad that he had his main beef because while we he did try to kill his mother he seemed sad when it went down as opposed to Han's death which had an air of "gently caress this man entirely lol". When Leia reached out to him though, he was instantly like "Fuuuuck I'm sooorrrryyyy :cry:" so I don't think she was the one he had an issue with.

I believe this was the original idea as it happened. Mom-Child interactions have an implicit understanding that I don't think needs as many words. Almost psychic. Father-Child stuff is a bit different, as I think men are more guarded. (Just from my experiences and observations here in the real world and how these things are usually written in fiction as well. Please don't kill me, guys) So I'm fine with Kylo's apology to Leia being more non-verbal, unconditional and instant and the one to Han being more strained and awkward. Like it could have all gone wrong again.

Tackling fascism and planet killing weapons was probably always gonna be waaay simpler than managing people. Which is how the OT generation that accomplished so much still hosed everything up, just like the PT guys before them. Han and Leia in that scene being like "We were dicks, didn't handle your childhood the best we could, and are sorry!" is what would have likely saved Anakin as well if he heard it from his own handlers. I think it was a great scene.

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Wookiepedia fans know and have known that Chewie would never wear a medal for religious reasons. Wookkies do not wear any clothing or jewelry or other stuff accoutrements. A bandolier or utility belt are acceptable because they are for doing a work related task. Everything else is austentatious.

He lost all of his old clique, save for a few. He probably just appreciated the gesture of kindness, the medal making him think of the better days, and the attempt at a pick-me-up. I don't think he cared about the actual medal. When people die, artifacts, family heirlooms, and relics are super loving important tho. Of course the music swelled there for that particular one, it was probably the day they all became lifelong friends. Chewie and Lando are gonna be pretty sad about this war because it cost them all their buddies. Lando's conversation talking about the crew's time in the OT implies he thought they were young and invincible once (quite literally in the Old EU). They learned this time that's not the case, at all. :(

Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Dec 22, 2019

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


FlamingLiberal posted:

$185-195 mil opening weekend is not very good when this is the finale of a trilogy

It's pretty bizarre that every movie in this trilogy has also had a smaller opening than the previous one. That's not what is supposed to happen.

I would also imagine that this movie will have short legs and probably a steep drop after this weekend.

I mean Force Awakens would've easily been the highest grossing movie of all time if China gave a poo poo about Star Wars so that was inevitable.

Martman posted:

I guess the main sign that time has passed is that Rey is better at making rocks float...

There's so much dumb poo poo in this movie I forgot about that until I read your post.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
Were there any wipes in the film?

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Onmi posted:

Oh, by the way, I feel the need to clear up something, no, the Death Star Destroyers are not all powered by miniaturized Death Star Tech they had all the way back in Return of the Jedi, that would be silly. No, they're Death Star Equivalent cannons all powered by Sheev-energy. So yes, Sheev has the power to destroy planets.
I honestly didn't hate the idea of Palpatine being an undying evil who was secretly pulling the strings to create new apprentices in the first two films. But that didn't feel very compatible with him having the resources to very easily subjugate and/or destroy the entire universe on his own. It rendered not just TLJ but also TFA completely pointless.

That said I did sortof enjoy the absurd late DBZ style power creeping, I guess it's just where executive meddling takes you

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Irony Be My Shield posted:

I honestly didn't hate the idea of Palpatine being an undying evil who was secretly pulling the strings to create new apprentices in the first two films. But that didn't feel very compatible with him having the resources to very easily subjugate and/or destroy the entire universe on his own. It rendered not just TLJ but also TFA completely pointless.

It would've still been kinda silly but I woulda been fine with him being a ghost haunting the Death Star ruins but being a physical body on some other world where he built an unseen massive fleet is too stupid for words.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Onmi posted:

This is why I always say that The Last Jedi doesn't feel like a story, it feels like Rian Johnson is talking to the fans through the vector of the actors. Because there's that moment early on when Snoke gets pissy at Kylo, mocking him for his obsession (That he previously supported) and berating him for "Losing to a girl with no training." That's not a real complaint or a real problem in the realm of the story. Kylo, who was bleeding out from being shot, lost a duel to a person who was perfectly healthy and fueled by rage while he was torn with indecision. Snoke's comments make no sense to Story Kylo Ren, Snokes comments only make sense from the meta-level, of fan commentary on a scene in TFA. And the whole film is like that. It's a commentary to fans.

It makes sense to me as Snoke trying to make Kylo feel bad. He later says "I stoked Ren's conflicted soul" and presumably him yelling at Kylo is him doing exactly that. The only part of the movie that stood out to me as making no sense except to fans watching is Finn saying he is "rebel scum"

Dishwasher
Dec 5, 2006

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Irony Be My Shield posted:

That said I did sortof enjoy the absurd late DBZ style power creeping, I guess it's just where executive meddling takes you

Lots of big dumb power creep in the books and comics (especially the comics). I feel a big dumb anime Force wizard magic struggle was looong overdue. Otherwise, the movies would actually look too grounded in comparison to the stuff in the supplemental media. If anything, it shows that the power levels post-IX are gonna be super-high. I mean, Rey can fly and just won her first beam struggle. We're already at DBZ here.

This is not a bad thing. I actually want these to get even bigger and dumber (still loving love RoS), as long as it doesn't lose its heart. Which I don't think has happened yet. :unsmith:

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


I always hated that poo poo in the EU so it didn't help with thinking the movie wasn't dumb as hell.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Irony Be My Shield posted:

I honestly didn't hate the idea of Palpatine being an undying evil who was secretly pulling the strings to create new apprentices in the first two films. But that didn't feel very compatible with him having the resources to very easily subjugate and/or destroy the entire universe on his own. It rendered not just TLJ but also TFA completely pointless.

That said I did sortof enjoy the absurd late DBZ style power creeping, I guess it's just where executive meddling takes you

I mean if you're going to go DBZ silly, go full silly. Add X-wings that transform into giant robots. Give the Jedi/Sith Funnels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdrxmk-eiIQ

Not like... attached to their X-Wings and poo poo, on their person, like... imagine Jedi vs Sith except they also have remote all-range drones firing lasers at each other.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Yeah in the films I feel Jedi and Sith are always presented as very powerful fighters who inspire loyalty and/or fear with their incredible deeds, but not as people who can singlehandedly destroy an army or disable a fleet with brute force. TLJ actually plays that up with the 'lifting rocks' thing so going the opposite direction in this film was weird.

Dishwasher
Dec 5, 2006

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Onmi posted:

Not like... attached to their X-Wings and poo poo, on their person, like... imagine Jedi vs Sith except they also have remote all-range drones firing lasers at each other.

Force users aren't invulnerable. Whats to stop a government from forcing them to pilot psychic powered weaponry For Fascism? Continuing to borrowing some of how Gundam handled Newtypes could totally be the next move. Especially if the series is changing neighborhoods where there likely are no Jedi or Sith where they go next. Just Space Psychics and the Politics that Effect Them.

Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Dec 22, 2019

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004


Palpatine: “Who the gently caress is screaming LOG OFF at my house? Show yourself coward, I will never log off.”

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Dishwasher posted:

Force users aren't invulnerable. Whats to stop a government from forcing them to pilot psychic powered weaponry For Fascism? Continuing to borrowing some of how Gundam handled Newtypes could totally be the next move. Especially if the series is changing neighborhoods where there likely are no Jedi or Sith where they go next. Just Space Psychics and the Politics that Effect Them.

Look, I already said I'd dig Tomino Star Wars. Like that would indeed be an interesting way to go. Hey Rey, the hero of the Resistance and whatever? Yeah, the reason she's not in any movies is she's in house arrest on whatever world. Why? Well, she's dangerous, not because she's a Palpatine but because she's a force user period. There's no Jedi Council anymore and no sith and the Government just got done dealing with two sets of Sith. So, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Last time we were reactive, now we'll pro-active. How does The Force work, can we... artificially give people access to the force? what about force-specific weapons? That way the next time some Darth motherfucker shows up no one's praying the saviour's trained in the ways of being a space monk.

Like KOTOR 2 isn't a great 'Star Wars story' when it comes to traditional star wars, but I always did love "Were you involved in the Jedi Civil War?" "It wasn't a civil war, they were sith." "Nobody cares what you call yourselves, you're all fuckin' space wizards."

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Horizon Burning posted:

Apparently, Abrams rejected or fought against the Story Group and Kennedy's suggestions as much as possible, whereas Johnson was more receptive. With that in mind, the reason why they let Johnson throw out Abrams' ideas makes much more sense.

Well holy poo poo then :laffo: JJ Abrams sucks.

Dishwasher
Dec 5, 2006

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Onmi posted:

Look, I already said I'd dig Tomino Star Wars. Like that would indeed be an interesting way to go. Hey Rey, the hero of the Resistance and whatever? Yeah, the reason she's not in any movies is she's in house arrest on whatever world. Why? Well, she's dangerous, not because she's a Palpatine but because she's a force user period. There's no Jedi Council anymore and no sith and the Government just got done dealing with two sets of Sith. So, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Last time we were reactive, now we'll pro-active. How does The Force work, can we... artificially give people access to the force? what about force-specific weapons? That way the next time some Darth motherfucker shows up no one's praying the saviour's trained in the ways of being a space monk.

Like KOTOR 2 isn't a great 'Star Wars story' when it comes to traditional star wars, but I always did love "Were you involved in the Jedi Civil War?" "It wasn't a civil war, they were sith." "Nobody cares what you call yourselves, you're all fuckin' space wizards."

Swear. People in Star Wars hate two things; droids and loving Jedi. Space bigots taking advantage of the fact that most of the Force users are dead to start their own little Holocaust and a nice little Muggle-Based Hegemony. Probably tons of suspicions now with people aware that Palpatine, First Order brass, and the Jedi Order were all Force users (all connected to bloody government coups, war, and trillions of deaths regardless of the reasons) and a charismatic man in the middle asking people if they really want Force users walking around uncontrolled is a great way to start things for X. Maybe they even have Jedi-Hunters armed with artificial/tech-based Force powers and Rey needs to shepherd the new Jedi Order around this new madness, and show with futility that "her" Order at least is a force for good (goes badly), while also contending with *insert Force-based Eldritch monstrosity threat here*. Suddenly the society she worked so hard to fit into is casting her out! And its reviving dark feelings she thought she'd long buried within her secret genetics. :ohdear:

Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 22, 2019

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


https://twitter.com/wtfd103074/status/1208756000028844034?s=21

This is pretty much the crux of it all. Appeasing idiots like this guy. gently caress this movie. gently caress Abrams and gently caress Disney.

Robotnik Nudes posted:

You guys need to let Star Wars go. I do too. Who needs it anymore? We have CATS now.

But I need the hate to flow through me and give me life!

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Dishwasher posted:

Swear. People in Star Wars hate two things; droids and loving Jedi. Space bigots taking advantage of the fact that most of the Force users are dead to start their own little Holocaust and a nice little Muggle-Based Hegemony. Probably tons of suspicions now with people aware that Palpatine, First Order brass, and the Jedi Order were all Force users (all connected to bloody government coups, war, and trillions of deaths regardless of the reasons) and a charismatic man in the middle asking people if they really want Force users walking around uncontrolled is a great way to start things for X. Maybe they even have Jedi-Hunters armed with artificial/tech-based Force powers and Rey needs to shepherd the new Jedi Order around this new madness while also contending with *insert Force-based Eldritch monstrosity threat here*. Suddenly the society she worked so hard to fit into is casting her out! ANd its reviving dark feelings she thought she'd long buried within her secret genetics.

It's like even the defense like "Luke Skywalker was a hero" "Yeah, Luke Skywalker was a great Soldier I didn't see him do poo poo for helping build things back up. So that's where all those little space wizards can stay. They can be good soldiers who fight the war when we need them, and otherwise not be allowed to do poo poo." Especially with poo poo like mind tricks and do you really think someone cares if Palpatine was a Jedi or a Sith when he took over the republic? Did he use a lightsaber? Did he have magic powers? sure fuckin' sounds like a Jedi to me."

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010
I just got home from watching the movie, and man. I legit think one of the best parts of TLJ was when Rey was confirmed to indeed not really be anyone of importance, so when this movie retconned her into being palpatine's granddaughter, well. If I was sitting next to a wall, I would've banged my head into it. And that wasn't exactly the only problem with the movie, though I'm sure the last 15 pages are full of better effortposts about it than I can be bothered to write.

I saw someone meme about it being written and directed by Reddit, and that's actually pretty much spot on what it feels like.





Why did they kiss?

Dishwasher
Dec 5, 2006

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

Onmi posted:

It's like even the defense like "Luke Skywalker was a hero" "Yeah, Luke Skywalker was a great Soldier I didn't see him do poo poo for helping build things back up. So that's where all those little space wizards can stay. They can be good soldiers who fight the war when we need them, and otherwise not be allowed to do poo poo." Especially with poo poo like mind tricks and do you really think someone cares if Palpatine was a Jedi or a Sith when he took over the republic? Did he use a lightsaber? Did he have magic powers? sure fuckin' sounds like a Jedi to me."

Everyone finds out Rey is a Palpatine, that she hid it from the inquisitions, and the Big Bad starts his holocaust in earnest because they're All The Same and "normal" people need to step up and fight these monsters. All her Jedi students abandon her, because she lied about her heritage, to confront the government with a fledgling guerrilla force but Rey knows its a trap and has premonitions they'll all be publicly executed. She goes after them, despite warnings from the Force that going after her students could result in the End of All Things that Live. *roll credits* :ohdear:

Mymla posted:

Why did they kiss?

They're young, attractive, and in a Disney movie.

Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Dec 22, 2019

Hobo Clown
Oct 16, 2012

Here it is, Baby.
Your killer track.




Mymla posted:

I just got home from watching the movie, and man. I legit think one of the best parts of TLJ was when Rey was confirmed to indeed not really be anyone of importance, so when this movie retconned her into being palpatine's granddaughter, well. If I was sitting next to a wall, I would've banged my head into it. And that wasn't exactly the only problem with the movie, though I'm sure the last 15 pages are full of better effortposts about it than I can be bothered to write.

I saw someone meme about it being written and directed by Reddit, and that's actually pretty much spot on what it feels like.





Why did they kiss?

Yeah after TFA was a beat for beat remake of ANH it was refreshing to see TLJ go in a new direction. Rey isn't anyone famous, she's just a talented force user in the right place at the right time who's brave enough to use it to help people, and that's it. But nope, RoS needs to make sure that everything is connected back to the nearly 40 year-old OT.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

Dishwasher posted:

Everyone finds out Rey is a Palpatine, that she hid it from the inquisitions, and the Big Bad starts his holocaust in earnest because they're All The Same and "normal" people need to step up and fight these monsters. All her Jedi students abandon her, because she lied about her heritage, to confront the government with a fledgling guerrilla force but Rey knows its a trap and has premonitions they'll all be publicly executed. She goes after them. *roll credits* :ohdear:

The best part of this is that Leia hiding her dad was Darth Vader is why she lost her political power and contributed to the new republic's fall

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.



Dinosaur Gum
The kiss was so you could member that Luke and Leia kissed

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Mymla posted:

Why did they kiss?

I don't know. The only reason I can think of is to make Reylo fans happy, and that's immediately destroyed afterwards.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010
Man, remember at the end of Pacific Rim, when they did not kiss? That was some good poo poo.

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!
It finally clicked for me. Most of you don't like this new movie because you all thought ROTJ was a bad movie.

But then what do you like about Star Wars besides arguing about it??

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some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Were there any wipes in the film?

My inner self is desperately fighting between trying to make a “movie was a big poo poo” joke about wiping and remaining above petty comments.

And now I posted this and we’re all worse off for it.

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