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Teriyaki Koinku posted:I don't play Gooncrawl, but what is the flavor and speciality of Faerie Dragons compared to other races? And why is Skeleton apparently so difficult? Skeletons are a species full of contrasts. They have +6 to natural MR, and negative, poison, and torment immunity, but -2 to evocations and invocations, and Conjurations are the only magic they're even remotely good at. They have excellent weapon and armor apts, but a 20% reduction in HP, and a -2 to Fighting. Most complicated of all, they can't eat or drink, which means they can't use potions, and so all they've got are scrolls, wands, god abilities and items (on -2 Invocations and Evocations, remember). Though they've also got their own pseudo-berserk as a racial ability. They're very difficult, but I actually like them a lot, because playing something that's so good at beating rear end but so bad at getting their rear end beat makes you develop good habits.
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Dec 20, 2019 23:39
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don't forget that beyond the good casting aptitudes, Fairy Dragons also get -1 to spell mana costs, meaning they can cast magic missile for 0mp (very relevant with Battlesphere)!!!
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Dec 20, 2019 23:44
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I just started playing Gooncrawl but I also enjoy the thematic contrast presented by Skeleton Archaeologists. Let me learn about the world, for knowledge is the ultimate power. I must read scrolls and books and identify the secrets of the dungeon. What's that? An unusually large gecko over yonder? KILL!
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Dec 21, 2019 00:10
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someone awful. posted:don't forget that beyond the good casting aptitudes, Fairy Dragons also get -1 to spell mana costs, meaning they can cast magic missile for 0mp (very relevant with Battlesphere)!!! Remap magic missle to tab key and attempt to do a zero melee attack FD run.
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Dec 21, 2019 00:37
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Faerie dragons are pizza-obsessed creatures who rely extensively on macros that read "Za." 
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Dec 21, 2019 00:57
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Tollymain posted:congrats to araganzar for another ogre win btw What do you do when Oka gives you 6 robes? Give up and learn Statue Form! pre:araganzar the Slayer (Ogre Skald) Turns: 69300, Time: 07:23:03
Health: 414/414 AC: 37 Str: 27 XL: 27
Magic: 10/21 EV: 42 Int: 26 God: Okawaru [******]
Gold: 4858 SH: 26 Dex: 15 Spells: 33/72 levels left
rFire + + + SeeInvis + a - +7 battleaxe of Purpose {vamp, -Tele *Corrode rElec rF+++}
rCold + + + Gourm . u - +2 large shield {rC+}
rNeg + + . Faith . (armour currently unavailable)
rPois ∞ Spirit . Q - +2 hat {SInv}
rElec + Reflect . G - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr . Harm . A - macabre finger necklace {rN+}
MR ++++. NoTele + w - ring of Ongavoma {rElec rC+ Dex+4 Stlth+}
Stlth +++....... P - ring of Phasing {EV+12}
HPRegen 1.79/turn D - ring "Isiad" {rElec rPois rF+ MR+ Dex-2}
MPRegen 0.17/turnOgres are good, I probably shouldn't have promised to clear one more Zig level with several awful muts including -regen before going and winning... 63560 | Zig:12 | Entered Level 12 of a ziggurat 63587 | Zig:12 | Noticed Tezi Tya the pandemonium lord 63587 | Zig:12 | tollymain: can you read blink and run 63587 | Zig:12 | araganzar: i have a goddamn -tele axe 63817 | Zig:13 | Noticed Zeussu the pandemonium lord 63819 | Zig:13 | HP: 37/408 [??? (9)] 63819 | Zig:13 | HP: 18/408 [Zeussu the pandemonium lord (19)] 63821 | Zig:14 | araganzar: !!!!!! 63821 | Zig:14 | tollymain: brutal 64299 | Zig:14 | Noticed Gapyv the pandemonium lord 64305 | Zig:15 | Entered Level 15 of a ziggurat 64847 | Zig:15 | Noticed Cykoisch the pandemonium lord 64848 | Zig:15 | araganzar: 4 pan levels in a row 64858 | Zig:15 | tollymain: at this point i feel your best bet is burning blink scrolls and going off to win 64859 | Zig:15 | araganzar: I told you we are clearing one more level 64859 | Zig:15 | tollymain: oh ok 64859 | Zig:15 | araganzar: this ogre is bound for glory So in conclusion start an OgSk or OgFi with an axe today and see how it goes! 
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Dec 21, 2019 03:07
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tylertfb posted:Remap magic missle to tab key and attempt to do a zero melee attack FD run. Panic! at Nabisco posted:Faerie dragons are pizza-obsessed creatures who rely extensively on macros that read "Za." As a person who remaps tab for his DeCjs... yes, do exactly that, its great for saving play exhaustion. Also I wouldn't use capital Z unless you feel like shooting yourself.
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Dec 21, 2019 05:49
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i just have macros setting 1, 2, 3, and 4 to za, zb, zc, and zd respectively
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Dec 21, 2019 07:42
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Araganzar posted:Oh man your TSO play was so good, too, I really enjoyed watching you stomp Crypt. I think not finding a demon blade killed you, training long swords to 24 after shields to 15 left you with low Fighting, Armor, Dodging. With Te HP and apts I would target those at 15-16 plus you had Frail 1. I used to always forget about Airstrike on Gargoyles, but my flavor of choice was getting turned into rubble by spriggan air mages. I think a real gooncrawl LP would be amazing, if you have the time and energy to actually make one. It would be great to see if it could attract some new players into this thread. As for reaver, I really just threw it together quickly as a sort of thematic skill set that would support training both charms and conjurations and could maybe get a player to lair and eventually be able to use blade of disaster. The general design concept was using MP to damage and disrupt enemies in a way that supports melee, with ozo’s armor and conjure flame being the lynchpin skills. That brings up the only thing I really disagree with in your post, by the way, that conjure flame is only really helpful if you take spear as your weapon choice. I’ve played about a million wizards, especially of Ash or Chei and therefore have to be able to make do with minor magic potentially through lair, and I think, all things considered, conjure flame is probably the most overall useful offensive spell in a starting book. It’s a strong escape mechanism early that eventually becomes a very powerful damage spell against most of the big threats in lair. That said, I’m not super attached to it as part of the reaver skill set, I mostly put it there as a strong tool on what I was afraid would be a weak class. The number of different spell schools in the book of reaving definitely bothered me when I made it, though. If I were to have continued working on it, I definitely would have made some new spells. I think my original plan was a book with a mix of conjurations, charms and hexes spells, something like: 1. Infusion 2. New spell — charms/hexes: short range bolt-shaped curse. All enemies affected take a little damage when the player hits any one affected enemy in melee. 3. New spell — charms/hexes/conjurations: thorns/retaliation spell. 3 turn buff: retaliates against melee attacks from enemies with heavy damage (for a level 3 spell) and a debuff that lowers accuracy or damage or applies mini-stun like freeze used to. 3. Dazzling spray / confuse / escape or defensive focused choice(?) 4. Fulminant Prism or other damage focused choice (?) 5. Blade of Disaster But I’ve made notes on something like 7-8 spells, but only actually written one and I can’t be sure I’ll ever do more than that. Based on your ideas and given what already is in the game, I agree ice magic works well, with its focus on damage, disruption and support. Translocations would also work, but I think is too much of a utility focused direction, and there is already warper occupying the role of translocations supported melee. Either way, I agree the background would work a lot better with all spells as either charms, conjurations, ice or charms, conjurations, translocations and I think either of your proposals would be good.
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Dec 21, 2019 09:25
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Heithinn Grasida posted:That brings up the only thing I really disagree with in your post, by the way, that conjure flame is only really helpful if you take spear as your weapon choice. I’ve played about a million wizards, especially of Ash or Chei and therefore have to be able to make do with minor magic potentially through lair, and I think, all things considered, conjure flame is probably the most overall useful offensive spell in a starting book. It’s a strong escape mechanism early that eventually becomes a very powerful damage spell against most of the big threats in lair. That said, I’m not super attached to it as part of the reaver skill set, I mostly put it there as a strong tool on what I was afraid would be a weak class. Conjure flame is strong, wizards have range though, which is even more useful than reach. It does basically lock you into spear though, because with spear it's an escape AND kill spell in early D. Infusion is an incredible buff against low/no AC and spear is +4 to hit so you are killing ogres, adders, (some) gnolls. So significant xp gain, time gain, turns gain, less frustration, a no brainer because you can just start polearms then turn on axes or staves. My feeling is Ozo's handles early game threats without trivializing them. It's an incredible buff in GoonCrawl and the move malus discourages you from kiting or running. I think you could have multiple schools as long as Conjuration was the primary on all of them, look at Book of Battle, every spell is a Charm so you can give them 2 SC and 3 Charms. It also gives spellpower support to all their schools. There are lots of melees/hybrids/stabbers but a Conjurations primary is pretty unique. So I would say start with 3.0 Conj, spells are all Conjurations single or with Charms, Hexes, and Ice. Heithinn Grasida posted:But I’ve made notes on something like 7-8 spells, but only actually written one and I can’t be sure I’ll ever do more than that. Based on your ideas and given what already is in the game, I agree ice magic works well, with its focus on damage, disruption and support. Translocations would also work, but I think is too much of a utility focused direction, and there is already warper occupying the role of translocations supported melee. Either way, I agree the background would work a lot better with all spells as either charms, conjurations, ice or charms, conjurations, translocations and I think either of your proposals would be good. Yeah I thought Transloc at first but Warper - my issue is not creativity but how to create a viable product on my skillset and time. I primarily do systems and data architecture. So it's easiest for me to use existing code so I don't have to be a subject matter expert on the rabbit whole of crawl functions. I also think about if this spell would be abusive if another class found it on D2. So like, permabuff brands would be overpowered, especially flame or venom which would trivialize some hard content. 1. Frozen Palm - see below 2. Ozocubu's Armor, really zero issues with this not having Conj as you can cast it safely with just a little ice or charms as a permabuff. Spellpower also not as important for this spell. 3. Dazzling Spray, I like this idea, spoiler I got this on my GrRv, it also makes semi-stabbing viable. 4. Freezing Fist - see below 5. Blade of Disaster, I think you have to make it L5 Frozen Palm - the caster focuses intense cold on their weapon hand that can travel through their weapon. Infusion verson of Freeze - this is cool because freeze ignores AC and EV, so it would have to do little damage compared to Infusion which is 2+power/12. Spellpower is going to be 10-20 so effectively 3-4. So maybe 1-2? It also can't be abusive later or abusive for a class that finds this book on D2. Also bonus cool points if you go unarmed. Freezing Fist - the caster creates a thick coating of ice on their offhand that explodes like a shaped charge when they punch/shield bash their enemy. Force Lance changed to be 50% ice damage and zero range. Same damage since it's point blank and force lance has 4 range. Someone will have to tell me if force lance will knock back hydra at medium spell power. Again, bonus points for going unarmed. Add a fixed book with higher level spells - Book of Reaving, or maybe Reaving For Real Reavers. Metabolic Englaciation, Freezing Cloud, Spellforged Servitor, 2 more, maybe 1 new level 6 spell.
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Dec 21, 2019 14:55
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As long as we are discussing Reavers, let me post a Let's Play sample. This is more of a screenshot travelogue guidebook. I wouldn't use timg on a Let's Play and I've have more consistent image sized but I don't want to nuke anyone's tables or browsers or whatever it is. I think what would be really cool for a Let's Play would be to have a video LP where some of the folks involved with GoonCrawl discuss the game, the reasons for divergence from trunk, reasons for inclusion of stuff from other releases or forks, the new stuff in GoonCrawl. Git names are often different but I am sure PF or Tolly would have a list. So here is part one of Let's Get To Lair With At Least One Hit Point I thought it might be fun to play Grasida's Reaver class and use the Blade of Disaster spell: This adds a new reaver background. It's a warrior-mage background that starts with the book of Reaving, containing the following spells: Infusion Blink Ozocubu's Armour Conjure Flame Force Lance Blade of Disaster This is intended as a temporary way for players to test the Blade of Disaster spell, not as a permanent background, at least not without further potential changes. This is a Teaching Moment so I'll focus interesting finds or tactical decisions aka the ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OPTIMAL MOVE AT ALL TIMES . I plan to start with a spear (this turns out to be an awesome choice) so I can show polearm positioning. Also, with a polearm you can stand on the other side of Conjure Flame and hit something. Either they stand there and take it, in which case, good, or they run into the fire all yolo in which case, also good. Basic Info: I'm playing a Gargoyle. Gargoyles have -20% hits which means training some Fighting over Polearms. But they have high AC and rPois which lets them avoid some early game killers. They have mostly 0 apts on spells and +1 conjurations, which means they can hybrid well and show off this class. Early skilling is * Polearms with Fighting and enough Fire to get Conjure Flame somewhat castable. It's not as important on a hybrid to have <10% spell failure, if your Conjure Flame fails you can usually just run. And with permabuffs you really don' t have to train up for Ozo's although you do get more AC and you probably want it semi-castable in case fire knocks it down. Avoid the Fire end of Lair.  First early game trap, ego war axe looks really tempting but that Hungry Ghost has 17 EV and 7HD and I have a +0 spear. If you have berserk these are often doable. War Axe is +0 to hit 11 damage spear is +4 and 7, against high AC war axe strictly better but with Infusion doing and extra 3 damage the faster attack speed with low skill puts spear over the edge. There are a lot of arguments about this, some with graphs, generally here are some good things to know: - weapon plus and plus damage are incredible early game, as are venom and electrocution brands. If you get a venom dagger you can use it almost to temple without training - Armor Class is king in crawl, generally 15 AC / 5 EV is great while 5 AC /15 EV eventually gives you status effect dead. Damage reduction in crawl is basically a die roll of your AC, heavy armor further has some guaranteed reduction. This also overvalues high damage low delay weapons and thus 2 handers. As anyone who has played an MMORPG can tell you, evasion tanking sucks, and crawl has made no real effort to fix this. Maybe we could? - Poison from monsters is overpowered early due to your lower hits, prioritize taking out adders  So if you aren't playing for score, any situation that looks problematical, just leave if you can. There are multiple stairs. I mean if you don't care about dying a few times before you get further take on these situations for sure. Then some day when you can't avoid that situation you have some idea of what you are up against. Crawl presents a lot of different situations but there are few enough monsters that you'll pick up what's dangerous and what's not. A good rule in Crawl is, if you think you are in danger, you might die, if you die you don't get a save game, so just remember that you need to be considerably more risk-adverse even than in a game like Dark Souls where you get no respawn but also death says YOU DIED instead of NEW GAME Y/N?  D3 Oka Altar, if you are a new player I don't recommend berserker, it's basically like playing a different and much less flexible game. Fighter, Gladiator, Hunter, if I were playing GoonCrawl I would take a strong race archaeologist. Okawaru is great, the important thing to remember is to use Heroism (hit aa) any time you are in danger. If you see an orc warrior, if a centaur shows up, if you come around the corner to an ogre, Heroism.  Here is why polearms are good. Now spears suck, and if you get an ego axe you should swap if your apts allow. But Infusion makes up for a spear's low damage and allows you to use Reach, which lets me kill this gnoll who can't do anything but wait for the Hobgoblin to get out of the way. You have a skill-based chance to succeed, so it's very possible to kill your blocker.  Next Good Thing To Do is Backing Up. Gnolls are early game enders. But see that rat?  NOW YOU ARE WORKING FOR ME! This is also a useful situation to set up when you'd like to climb stairs with a rat on you instead of a gnoll. Really, Backing Up in general is important. Sound travels, few starting combos can handle multiple problematical encounters. So generally I start most fights that aren't like a giant rat by taking a least a few steps back, I generally don't worry about that in a corridor too much but the main thing is to make sure when you are going to fight in open space that you have a retreat through explored territory to a defensible position. I believe the octopode philosopher MiMo^TSO Masushi said something about that in his book The Eight Rings.  This is a good find! It's +2, an ego would have been even better. I will probably use a shield so I pick this up and 100% shields to 3 then I will push to 4.0 when I am better at killing stuff. Shields have a malus to spellcasting, EV, and melee delay but at -1.0 skill it's not really noticeable. Generally doing this when my main weapon skill is so low is a Bad Idea but I am treating this as a spell hybrid and yeah, you pick up a +2 buckler. Technically I probably should have waited until like 3 Fighting and 6 polearms.  D4 is where I will read my unknown scrolls if I haven't found my god yet, or at least the ones I have multiples of. I also hit ! to check what potions I've picked up and I have just one of lignification. This is Super Bad and it means I have to be pretty cautious. Don't hesitate to use potions or scrolls early to kill stuff or escape. For melees, great potions that will win a lot of bad fights are: Berserk, Invis, Might, Haste, Lignification, and maybe Agility. This is also why you burn your early game ID on potions or amulets. Again, YMMV, you can wear-id armor and rings if you have rcurse or don't mind them being cursed, generally a bad ring is pretty survivable but getting a bad amulet can wreck you.  So here is Early Game Ender #2, the orc priest. These little piggy fuckers will Smite you from anywhere on the field for 7-17 points of damage, unresistable, no AC applied. I have 32 hits so I can die in 2 turns. I have Infusion so I back up to where this guy gets no shots at me before I can hit him.  This goes bad when 2 more wizards and another priest show up, one of the wizards hastes and then quaffs a potion of might. Might is an extra 1-10 damage that's added before total damage is applied to AC. With haste that's bad.  Remember how I said to not skimp on the consumable use? I kill that mage with a wand of acid, then when the other mage and priest come around the corner I zap them too. Wands of Acid are great, at 6 or so evoke they can be used to kill hydra (although at 5 evoke I had a scattershot wand 1 shot a 6-headed hydra). And they corrode. So you generally want to save them. But I generally want to not die here. As a new player, really, your goal is not to win but to get far enough to see new stuff.   I ID-quaffed a potion of mutation at some point so here are the gargoyle abilities, and my skills at this point. I have 3MP to strengthen wands, this is usually bad because you can't use wands when you are out of MP, which is usually when you really want to. But it probably helped kill those orcs. I am bee-lining to Polearms 6, usually I would go to 8 or 10 immediately but I still have a +0 spear and I am thinking I may want to switch.  Okay this is super bad. Moccasins are usually not seen outside of Lair and never this early, but this is a vault. Vaults are pre-generated areas in the random dungeon or other branches. They often have good loot but also often have out of depth difficulty. Sometimes they are just thematically fun. Anyway look at those stats. If I had a working circulatory system this would probably be the end. Oh also if I will explain that knowledge bot better later but if you want one find someone with it running (they will have a spectator) and type !subcribe seam into their chat.  If I didn't have this wand I would also be dead. Probably the #1 way I die early is I forget my options. Play Chei and forget I can Step From Time. Play Hep and forget I can swap my pet with anything on the field including myself. With reaver really I didn't use Conjure Flame nearly enough. I was thinking about teaching positioning too much. Use your tools. If you are speedrunning you have to thing about having to rest to restore MP and HP but not here. That is the other thing, any time you are down HP or MP, HIT 5  This is a game where you are permadead with zero hit points so you want your number of those to be as high as possible at all times.  Would you look at that. Venom is a strong early game brand and this war axe can probably take me to lair. Basically if you can apply venom twice most creatures will die. For example ogres can hit for 30+ damage but they are fat bags of poo poo with 6 EV and you can probably land 2 hits and back up and maybe have to do one more to finish them off. Orc Warriors can be bad if they have armor and a reaching weapon, god forbid a glaive, poison doesn't care they are wearing chain mail.  Oh man. If I had seen this before I took Oka we would have had a much different game here. Jiyva is not a great god for let's plays or new games because the items on floor you are exploring start being eaten.  At this point I remember I have Ozo's on the table and haven't cast it. Look at that AC on D4. In trunk you can't MOVE when you have Ozo's up. This is a great spell because it eliminates any thought I might have of moving up to say ring or scale, and so I will be continuing to cast. Still have +0 leather and +0 spear so this is key. Really, this and Infusion make Reaver a great start. The problem with high AC is having low EV makes you vulnerable to stuff that doesn't care about AC like poison. Adders are a legit threat to a minotaur on D2. Being able to wear leather, acid dragon armor, or any robe you find is great since there are a lot of +1 and +2 robes with resists out there. You still worry about the move malus so it's still not a no-brainer (many "pro" players would pull out their own teeth rather than take any run speed malus) but it means you don't feel like you have to wear heavier armor and thus train more spell skills.  Also even with low skill, throwing stuff at an incoming ogre can really take the piss out of them. I forget Throwing has an over 1.0 delay now underskilled so I mess up and miss one shot with the spear, but without doing this I could easily have died here. Ogre can take me out in 2 hits. This is a good reason to pick up boomerangs or even stones early. You don't get retries and the RNG can be quite spikey so anything you can do useful with your turns while a monster is coming in helps. Again, have some perspective, it gets boring chucking stones.  Sewer on this level. It's important to prioritize getting to early game portals like sewers, baileys, and ossuaries. They are troves of scrolls and potions usually. Baileys are not as big an option unless you can kill an orc knight or maybe a warlord, or can at least yoink and teleport. But Baileys also have insane early game look like magic battleaxes, potions of xp, and ego plate armor. Prioritizing means clearing ground until you get a "distant" result which is actually quite close. Don't pick up stuff, avoid fights, if you get beat up you have to rest. If you've mapped and see another stairs near our goal, consider going up and back down.  This. This is why you wait to read your unknown scrolls until D4. If I'd been still seeking Oka this likely would have revealed him. And now I can beeline for the sewer.  Another orc priest along the way, I show this to remind you if you are a low hp species DO NOT gently caress WITH THESE GUYS. Anyway this guy briefly becomes the orcish Two Face...I've used quite a bit of my acid charges so I probably will need another solution for Hydra. You can definitely kill Hydra with a cleaving weapon, the healing is significant so it's generally a terrible idea if you aren't sure what you are doing. Getting to Lair for me means getting there able to solve the primary threats. For most classes Hydra are tops - they are high HD and HP, fast in water, they can wreck you with either low EV or AC due to the # of attacks (aka crawl's vulnerability to streakiness) even if you are a mace user, they are highly magic resistant so hexes and hex wands are rarely useful, and they are poison resistant which takes out a number of strategies. You need to know how you are going to kill one. The main "nasty" monster you will have to be able to kill is the Komodo dragon. 7AC 8EV, does one thing, it's not fast, it's not immune to anything, does one thing, hits for 34 base dmg. It probably won't kill you by itself but it's quite good at getting the assist. It's also best to be able to tank 1-2 death yaks or a herd of regular ones. Blink Frogs are nasty as hell to low EV or AC or ranged casters. Spiked Frogs are also surprisingly scary. It's also really nice to have poison resist and it should be a priority in early shops. rPois is going to be just about required most of the time for one or both Lair branches.  I think about using this for a bit, quarterstaffs are about the best weapon you are likely to find before Temple, but I am pretty sure I can clear the sewer and get to that axe. Note I'm training 100% axes as the last thing I want is some two-headed ogre getting 4 swings at me with 2 giant clubs while I am trying to apply poison. Cross training means some of the xp you spend on Polearms gets applied to Staves and also my Axe training is helping my Polearms.  ...and that takes us to the sewer So that's basically clearing most of D4 and making it to our first portal. This seems like a good place to stop. Next time..... (SPOILERS!) 
Araganzar fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 17:12
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Added species paging in an incredibly hacky way AKA I just added space for 36 more species (12 per category) instead of doing things dynamically because I just wanted to push something and be done with it. If you fuckers add 36 more species and force me to go back and fix this the right way I will be very sad and upset. Gonna challenge myself to get challenges working and in before the holidays are up.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:04
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Floodkiller posted:Added species paging in an incredibly hacky way AKA I just added space for 36 more species (12 per category) instead of doing things dynamically because I just wanted to push something and be done with it. If you fuckers add 36 more species and force me to go back and fix this the right way I will be very sad and upset. a momentous occasion finally, no crawl dev can claim to have run out of space in the code when trying to justify mountain dwarf genocide
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Dec 22, 2019 00:15
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code:
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Dec 22, 2019 01:21
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quote:Slain by a kobold
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Dec 22, 2019 01:21
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PMush Perfect posted:
Skeletowned
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Dec 22, 2019 01:46
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Floodkiller posted:Added species paging in an incredibly hacky way AKA I just added space for 36 more species (12 per category) instead of doing things dynamically because I just wanted to push something and be done with it. If you fuckers add 36 more species and force me to go back and fix this the right way I will be very sad and upset. Is there an official way to submit a feature request? If species count isn't an issue, I think it would be cool to separate monstrous and non-monstrous demonspawn.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:17
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:This rules, thanks for your hard work. If someone is willing to work on it (not me at the moment, I've been way too slow with stuff as it is), then all it needs is someone with repo access to make a thread vote for it since it is a somewhat meaningful change to an existing species. If it gets accepted by a majority, it can get merged. If not, then the above has to happen plus you need to make the implementation yourself and submit it as a pull request to the main gooncrawl repo (can be done before or after a vote if you don't want to put in work before knowing it will get merged).
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Dec 22, 2019 03:07
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Araganzar posted:Conjure flame is strong, wizards have range though, which is even more useful than reach. It does basically lock you into spear though, because with spear it's an escape AND kill spell in early D. Infusion is an incredible buff against low/no AC and spear is +4 to hit so you are killing ogres, adders, (some) gnolls. So significant xp gain, time gain, turns gain, less frustration, a no brainer because you can just start polearms then turn on axes or staves. My feeling is Ozo's handles early game threats without trivializing them. It's an incredible buff in GoonCrawl and the move malus discourages you from kiting or running. That’s a good point, that conjure flame on a background that allows weapon choice too heavily favors choosing a spear. As I said, I’m not super attached to it, I mostly just put it there because it’s a strong move that also works well with melee. Araganzar posted:Yeah I thought Transloc at first but Warper - my issue is not creativity but how to create a viable product on my skillset and time. I primarily do systems and data architecture. So it's easiest for me to use existing code so I don't have to be a subject matter expert on the rabbit whole of crawl functions. I also think about if this spell would be abusive if another class found it on D2. So like, permabuff brands would be overpowered, especially flame or venom which would trivialize some hard content. One of the major things I was considering when writing blade of disaster, as well as thinking of spells for reaver in general, is how these buffs will affect late game melee characters as well. Hybrids that cast a few permabuffs in medium-heavy armor but otherwise play as primarily melee characters are already strong enough and don’t really need new toys and I was trying even harder to avoid creating a spell like regeneration, that eventually ends up as just something that makes every end game character stronger. Araganzar posted:Frozen Palm - the caster focuses intense cold on their weapon hand that can travel through their weapon. Infusion verson of Freeze - this is cool because freeze ignores AC and EV, so it would have to do little damage compared to Infusion which is 2+power/12. Spellpower is going to be 10-20 so effectively 3-4. So maybe 1-2? It also can't be abusive later or abusive for a class that finds this book on D2. Also bonus cool points if you go unarmed. Do you intend those to be permabuffs, or just melee range spells that also incorporate a melee attack? I would prefer not to add too many permabuffs, since they heavily contribute to a buff and forget style, rather than actively using both spells and weapons to deal damage. I do think a knockback spell connected to melee is good for the reaver style, since it’s not something every melee character will want all the time and it also opens enemies up to using damaging ranged spells. Actually, a knockback on melee type permabuff could be interesting if there were some specific thing you could do to trigger it, such as passing a turn, moving without attacking (how would this work with WJC?) or damaging an enemy with a conjurations spell set up the freezing fist. You could even add extra effects at high spell power, like creating freezing clouds on the target, or adding an extra tile of damage in direction of the attack. My own coding experience is limited to 1 year of c++ about 20 years ago in high school. I’m not a computer toucher at all, so whenever I try something new (I wrote a new species too, that was moderately complicated but that I wasn’t that satisfied with) I spend most of the time just copying existing functions. Blade of disaster probably took me 7-8 hours, and that was just the one spell  .I’m enjoying the LP, by the way. A whole proper LP thread, with several posters contributing would be really cool as a way to get more people interested in gooncrawl, but I don’t know if there are enough people with the time and motivation at this point. An LP seems like it requires a decent amount of effort and commitment. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 11:04
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Okay, laying out the challenge design stuff here for debate/ideas/criticism while I work at the framework stuff: Currently referring to them as "Pledges", brainstorm different names before I officially commit the enum file for them and lock it. Going to be modeling them after DoomRL's "Angel of..." system AKA you choose the challenge before you start the game and you can only have one active at a time (unless the challenge explicitly states a combo). I wanted this style over Nethack conducts because I would prefer to mess with/modify the game over just tracking the player not doing specific stuff in a vanilla game (even though most of the ones in the table below are in that style to copy the tournament stuff). Going with only having one challenge selected at a time because I don't want to make a rat's nest of conditionals to check for any conflicts between challenges. Supporting stuff to add: line in the morgue files if the player selected a challenge to show off, rcfile option to pre-select a challenge (or pre-select to have no challenges so the player doesn't have to see the menu), remembering save compatibility so I don't gently caress everyone over again. If I can, also something that leaderboard sites can hook into easily if they want so they can compile completions. Here's the list I've currently got, mostly tournament stuff: code:
Please provide comments if you want any of the tournament challenges to work differently. Other than comments on anything, feel free to propose any other ideas/challenges as well. Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 18:54
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Still struggling to get gud at this game. Do the servers that actually host gooncrawl (i use kelbi) update their versions to the current pretty faithfully? It took me the longest time to even notice gooncrawl was an option, I thought vanilla dcss was gooncrawl :P
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Dec 22, 2019 19:16
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since it's been talked about lately, how does one use Blade of Disaster best? Do the explosions from it hurt yourself? hurt your allies?
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Dec 22, 2019 20:47
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tylertfb posted:since it's been talked about lately, how does one use Blade of Disaster best? Do the explosions from it hurt yourself? hurt your allies? It's a fulminant prism. So yes, it hurts you and your allies. It's hilarious with WJC and unarmed, jumping over things and spawning bombs you need to then zoidberg woop out of the way of E: and since you tag things as you walk past them, spawning more prisms, it's even more fun. Also noisy.
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Dec 22, 2019 21:16
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quote:PLEDGE_HAUNTED, // All floors have a 10% chance to generate a ghostly champion of LogicNinja quote:PLEDGE_PEER_PRESSURE, // All food and chunks mutate player when eaten
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Dec 22, 2019 21:16
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Charles Bukowski posted:Still struggling to get gud at this game. Do the servers that actually host gooncrawl (i use kelbi) update their versions to the current pretty faithfully? It took me the longest time to even notice gooncrawl was an option, I thought vanilla dcss was gooncrawl :P Yes, CKO and CPO usually stay updated due to setting up pulls via scripts.
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Dec 22, 2019 22:25
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goatse's #1 git gud tip: Don't play drunk. Doesn't apply to starting a new character but holy poo poo I have splatted so many carefully crafted characters in the interim between 'hey lets go to the bar and have a couple' and 'I got this'.
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Dec 22, 2019 23:12
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PMush Perfect posted:Well, I know which one I'm doing first. (You'll definitely wanna ban not just no-eating races from this, but maybe also Halflings?) im p sure the only difference w being a halfling is that the rollercoaster ride would be a bit slower hm, what about ghouls
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Dec 22, 2019 23:23
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goatsestretchgoals posted:goatse's #1 git gud tip: Don't play drunk. Doesn't apply to starting a new character but holy poo poo I have splatted so many carefully crafted characters in the interim between 'hey lets go to the bar and have a couple' and 'I got this'. Or tired. Many an evening spent staring blankly at death screens as my brain struggles to slowly process why I'm suddenly looking at a dead character.
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Dec 22, 2019 23:27
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im perpetually stoned and tired, i have won this game a grand total of twice lmao
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Dec 22, 2019 23:38
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PMush Perfect posted:
code:
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Dec 23, 2019 01:08
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Heithinn Grasida posted:That’s a good point, that conjure flame on a background that allows weapon choice too heavily favors choosing a spear. As I said, I’m not super attached to it, I mostly just put it there because it’s a strong move that also works well with melee. Yeah I know you just put the spells together to have a start with BoD. I just thought all there is to a class really is stats, starting gear, and optional book and you have everything done except a couple more unique spells. Heithinn Grasida posted:Do you intend those to be permabuffs, or just melee range spells that also incorporate a melee attack? I would prefer not to add too many permabuffs, since they heavily contribute to a buff and forget style, rather than actively using both spells and weapons to deal damage. I do think a knockback spell connected to melee is good for the reaver style, since it’s not something every melee character will want all the time and it also opens enemies up to using damaging ranged spells. Frozen Palm will be a permabuff because it's equivalent to Infusion. Given your comment I will add an exclusion on both if the other one is running. Frozen Fist (I'm not married to the names BTW) will have to be cast every time. There won't be a turn where you cast it then hit someone the next turn, you just cast it orc go boom. As far as knockback, I agree and it opens up a number of strategies, some of which we might not predict, which is cool. The permabuff knockback sounds interesting, I don't really know a way to make it work that way that's not abusive to some combos and playstyles. These two spells are close equivalents to existing ones so I'm not too worried there. Heithinn Grasida posted:I’m enjoying the LP, by the way. A whole proper LP thread, with several posters contributing would be really cool as a way to get more people interested in gooncrawl, but I don’t know if there are enough people with the time and motivation at this point. An LP seems like it requires a decent amount of effort and commitment. Instruction/Advice posts are a little (okay more than a little) dry for that so I'd want to do something else. I wonder if there's enough interest to make it worthwhile. I would definitely be willing to run it or help. How often should I post installments here? Are they too long? My goal is really by following it someone just starting the game will have a good idea what it takes to get to Lair and what trap choices lie along the way. Not sure it's terribly useful or entertaining to someone who has played the game a bunch of times and basically knows how to play. I was giving hoshi advice on webtiles since they'd asked in here and then I was embarassed to see they had a bunch of 15 rune wins in Gooncrawl.
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Dec 23, 2019 01:18
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Floodkiller posted:Okay, laying out the challenge design stuff here for debate/ideas/criticism while I work at the framework stuff: I was actually thinking just last week that some kind of optional conducts might be fun. I like these a lot, they were a lot of fun in the tournaments. Some more of the crazy challenges people do on Tavern would be cool too. Never pick anything up off the floor, the MiMo challenge, skill robin, take and abandon every other god then worship Xom, might be just too crazy for this cohort. But honestly I think there's a beastly amount of work to get even just your favorites done here. Reaver has me thinking about ways we could make light armor for non-mages more attractive. One thing I was thinking about was adding weapon arts that cost MP and are an alternative for Melees who have nothing to do with 20MP and no reason to train SC. As they get more expensive they would only work below a certain encumbrance. But I'm not sure how to do that and not make heavy armor melee even more OP. Have thought about a single-weapon bonus as well, giving a bonus if your offhand is empty (not if you worship Ru and it's actually gone though). edit: trunk posted:A minotaur comes into view. It is wielding the +5 scythe "Finisher" {speed, eviscerate}, wearing a +2 plate armour of positive energy, wearing the amulet of the Stallion {Spirit +Blink rElec Int-4 Dex+4} and quivering 15 silver javelins. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 01:28
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Drunk, tired, and fast is the most fun way to play.
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Dec 23, 2019 03:27
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code:
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Dec 23, 2019 07:28
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tote up a bags posted:
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Dec 23, 2019 07:46
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I actually have no idea how amnesiac can find spells at all, unless it can take any spell and the alters the success% to the previous one. Like, I'm a Cj with IooD memorized. What on earth will have the same spell% while being lvl7? edit: And Chokoknight is just a pure caster who never found the right staff. God I'm a part pooper.
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Dec 23, 2019 08:58
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tylertfb posted:since it's been talked about lately, how does one use Blade of Disaster best? Do the explosions from it hurt yourself? hurt your allies? Superterranean posted:It's a fulminant prism. So yes, it hurts you and your allies. It's hilarious with WJC and unarmed, jumping over things and spawning bombs you need to then zoidberg woop out of the way of Just to add a little to this: —The spell gives you 4 turns to spawn prisms in melee, then 2 turns to gtfo before they all blow up. You might want to split on the 3rd turn of the buff, depending. It’s very summoner unfriendly and the prisms definitely hurt you. —The prisms look like fulminant prisms because I’m lazy and can’t do art, but they’re functionally a little different. Actually it shouldn’t be hard to just change the color palette, and in fact I think someone posted a bunch of potential palette swaps for them and I sucked too much at life to make a pull request using a different color tile. The damage formula is not the same as a fulminant prism, and they’re much sturdier. —The damage is determined by spell power and weapon base damage. Both are pretty important. If you’re unarmed, you get nothing from your weapon, but spell power is doubled. —Overall the spell will do a little more damage if you hit fast to spawn more prisms. Short blades (esp. rapier of speed), long blades (because of riposte) and demon whips are probably “optimal”. A lajatang of speed is the dream weapon for using this spell if you can find one. Unarmed is best if you have very high skills all around, but BoD might not be so useful by the time you do. Araganzar posted:Reaver has me thinking about ways we could make light armor for non-mages more attractive. One thing I was thinking about was adding weapon arts that cost MP and are an alternative for Melees who have nothing to do with 20MP and no reason to train SC. As they get more expensive they would only work below a certain encumbrance. But I'm not sure how to do that and not make heavy armor melee even more OP. Have thought about a single-weapon bonus as well, giving a bonus if your offhand is empty (not if you worship Ru and it's actually gone though). I think this could be done with some special items occupying the off hand slot or special egos on other armor slots. This means you could start something like a HaAs, MiGl or MiMo and actually have a real choice between heavy or light armor depending on what you find. I think light armor should get some defensive benefits, but should still be more of a glass cannon choice. Some off the cuff ideas: Main Gauche (shield slot item): Allows off-hand stab attack. Chance is dex*5/2 - aev^3, damage scales with dodging. Off-hand attack is considered a tier 2 stabbing weapon (non-dagger shortblade, felid claws). Also distracts attackers on successful dodge with a chance modified by dodging, stealth and encumbrance (100% chance at ~15 dodging/ stealth and in robes). Cloak/gloves/hat ego — of the Duelist: adds multiplicative damage bonus (so as not to favor quickblades too heavily) for every turn the player spends attacking the same enemy. 5 total increments. Value of increments and maximum determined by average of weapon and dodging skill (decreased by encumbrance). The bonus resets if the player takes any action other than to attack the same enemy. (maybe should be limited to certain weapon types, otherwise axes would be crazy; maybe could block shield slot and only work with light weapons like shortblades, handaxe, whip, mace, club and falchion?) Buckler/robe/leather armor ego — of shielding mist: Gain % damage reduction against melee attacks. Reduction is random value ranging from 5 to (dex+EV)/2. Only works in light armor. Robe/leather armor ego — of the Bastard: player wields medium-sized weapons in two hands (long sword, flail, double sword, evening star, spear, trident, demon trident, war axe, broad axe). Affected weapons get -0.1 min delay and player gets AC on attacking in melee equal to (EV+weapon skill)/2)/3 as long as the shield slot is free. Actual values and occupied equipment slots are completely arbitrary. There could be some common, weaker items as well that grant weaker effects. Items could also give activated powers that consume MP of an amount that scales with armor encumbrance. For example a robe of the bastard could have a short term buff that makes every attack cleave for the next few turns, a cloak of the duelist could have an activated flurry that hits several times for lowered damage, but builds up the concentration bonus quickly. Anyway, lots of room for changes or improvements. These are suggested without much consideration for how hard they would be to implement. I’m sure -of the duelist would be very difficult for me, personally, because I’ve tried to make something similar and couldn’t figure it out. I’m pretty sure I could do the others, though. Araganzar posted:Frozen Palm will be a permabuff because it's equivalent to Infusion. Given your comment I will add an exclusion on both if the other one is running. Maybe I missed something in one of your posts and I’m just being dense here, but if it has a similar effect as infusion and can’t coexist with infusion, why not just keep it as infusion? Araganzar posted:Instruction/Advice posts are a little (okay more than a little) dry for that so I'd want to do something else. I wonder if there's enough interest to make it worthwhile. I would definitely be willing to run it or help. I enjoy reading these kinds of things even if it’s stuff that I know already because I like to see people explain their thought processes when playing. My feeling is the length is about right and maybe one to two updates a week would be a good pace? I think it’s better to wait to hear from other people though. I just like the idea of Crawl LPs in general, but it’s probably better to get feedback from the target audience, i.e. people looking to improve consistency in the early game.
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Dec 23, 2019 11:03
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I think a better place to post an LP is in the lp forum, if only to get more people playing gooncrawl!
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Dec 23, 2019 11:44
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Floodkiller posted:Added species paging in an incredibly hacky way AKA I just added space for 36 more species (12 per category) instead of doing things dynamically because I just wanted to push something and be done with it. If you fuckers add 36 more species and force me to go back and fix this the right way I will be very sad and upset. imo the paging format is actually a blessing in disguise, we can jam the more experimental stuff in the second page to make it easier to find and harder to blunder into Serephina posted:And Chokoknight is just a pure caster who never found the right staff. God I'm a part pooper. rename it chokomancer, problem solved Heithinn Grasida posted:Main Gauche (shield slot item): Allows off-hand stab attack. Chance is dex*5/2 - aev^3, damage scales with dodging. Off-hand attack is considered a tier 2 stabbing weapon (non-dagger shortblade, felid claws). Also distracts attackers on successful dodge with a chance modified by dodging, stealth and encumbrance (100% chance at ~15 dodging/ stealth and in robes). ive been hoping for the proposed change of the shield slot to an offhand slot for a while. i wonder if a main gauche can be given priority over less stabby primary weapons on a helpless enemy? im guessing the code model for the attack here is the unarmed offhand punch quote:Cloak/gloves/hat ego — of the Duelist: adds multiplicative damage bonus (so as not to favor quickblades too heavily) for every turn the player spends attacking the same enemy. 5 total increments. Value of increments and maximum determined by average of weapon and dodging skill (decreased by encumbrance). The bonus resets if the player takes any action other than to attack the same enemy. (maybe should be limited to certain weapon types, otherwise axes would be crazy; maybe could block shield slot and only work with light weapons like shortblades, handaxe, whip, mace, club and falchion?) i actually disagree with this idea. focusing on an enemy until they are dead is generally the correct thing to do when you are swinging a weapon. if anything id say to go in the other direction with an ego that gives you a buff that breaks temporarily if you bump-attack the an enemy repeatedly without slapping something else first quote:Buckler/robe/leather armor ego — of shielding mist: Gain % damage reduction against melee attacks. Reduction is random value ranging from 5 to (dex+EV)/2. Only works in light armor. im down for this. itd probably should have a snappier name tho a couple other ideas for robe stuff: - an ego that hardens dramatically temporarily after you get struck for more than a piddling amount of damage - an ego that sometimes distracts enemies that are adjacent to you (think animate ribbons and tassels making an enormous nuisance of themselves for everybody in their presence but the wearer) - a fixedart robe that constricts things that hit you quote:Robe/leather armor ego — of the Bastard: player wields medium-sized weapons in two hands (long sword, flail, double sword, evening star, spear, trident, demon trident, war axe, broad axe). Affected weapons get -0.1 min delay and player gets AC on attacking in melee equal to (EV+weapon skill)/2)/3 as long as the shield slot is free. i feel like an ego that requires you use another item of a specific category at the same time is too complicated. maybe this would work better as a weapon brand of some kind? except for then i remember that protection is an extant weapon brand. hm now im thinking about a vorpal brand that has a damage bonus scaling inversely proportional to your ac. daring brand quote:Maybe I missed something in one of your posts and I’m just being dense here, but if it has a similar effect as infusion and can’t coexist with infusion, why not just keep it as infusion? yeah imo a minor weapon damage permabuff that falls off later needs to feel at least a bit more different
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Dec 23, 2019 13:20
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ive come up w a bit of my own proposal regarding the reaver spellbook. its a conjurations-focused book, with secondary schools charms, translocations, and just a little hexes. this doubles as a proposal to sex up a couple spells that might feel like theyre missing a certain je ne sais quoi at the present. also i lost this post while proofreading it and i had to type everything down all over without forgetting anything that sucked level 1 conj/charms: maxwell's piercing pitch. timed buff, semiloud, damage has no elemental type and bypasses ac level 2 translocations: blink level 3 charms/tloc shroud of golubria, buffed and with a thorns mechanic (space can have little a sharp edges) level 3 conj/tloc/summoning: aura of abjuration lavel 4 conj/hexes: iskenderun's mystic blast, with its damage output lowered but an attached debuff that forms a sort of injury bond between the creatures affected level 4 conj/tloc: force wave (stolen trunk imb, now replacing force lance) level 5 conj/charms: blade of disaster (id like to bring back up the idea of calling it maxwell's silver hammer) Tollymain fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 23, 2019 14:33
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