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Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3

Yams Fan

Clerical Terrors posted:

Outer Worlds Spoilers
Did you somehow miss the fact that the game emphatically states, multiple times, that the lady is not just doing it out of high-minded idealism but also out of an active vendetta against the leader of Edgewater, because of the traumatic loss of her daughter? Or that she will actively refuse to take in Edgewater refugees who do not fully renounce their previous allegiance? Sure, you can't role play the credulous fool who takes everything at face value and exalt her as some kind of savior because the game's text clearly goes for the same "there are no winning systems or good guys, only people doing the best they can to get by and people who use that for their own ends" angle which also pervaded New Vegas.

I've seen this criticism multiple times and I feel like it's such a willingly dense way of looking at it. It's just being angry that the writers didn't validate your politics of choice.


what

everyone got that, that's why the writing is poo poo! you can't depose her for being evil you have to accept that innocents will die! both sides are evil!!!

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Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

hey instead of doing that thing i said where people just relitigate the same loving arguments they've already had 6 separate times in different places on the forums with the same people over and over again, watch Civvie play Rise of the Triad because we were all good boys and girls this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBKVnSv1Uc

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Alaois posted:

hey instead of doing that thing i said where people just relitigate the same loving arguments they've already had 6 separate times in different places on the forums with the same people over and over again

why would I post in this thread if I didn't want to do that

Ash Crimson
Apr 4, 2010
All this thread does is talk about star wars and bemoan the collective decline and moral degradation of humanity

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

Goa Tse-tung posted:

what

everyone got that, that's why the writing is poo poo! you can't depose her for being evil you have to accept that innocents will die! both sides are evil!!!

oh yes “the good people have flaws” is the same thing as “both sides are evil”

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

Goa Tse-tung posted:

everyone got that, that's why the writing is poo poo! you can't depose her for being evil you have to accept that innocents will die! both sides are evil!!!

Everything that doesn't emphatically and uncritically support my position is whataboutism.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013

watho posted:

oh yes “the good people have flaws” is the same thing as “both sides are evil”

It's weird considering I remember your character being able to go "oh god I love money, yes I'll loving get these slaves back in their plantation for you" to the mayor of the town, but all your dialogue to the independent lady is very condescending and snarky. You're basically a second away from calling her the r-word at any given moment you talk to her, the way the dialogue goes because the character is psychic and knows she's a big meanie who hates the mayor for his reasonable action of killing her daughter through negligence and hates people who support the company before you the player gets a chance to learn it. Like gently caress, I get that the plan will hurt people whose only crime is getting indoctrinated at a young age by a corporation, but this is a problem the game has everywhere it deals with revolutionary figures in that it has immense contempt for doing anything that removes corporate figures since that's violent and you're not supposed to like violence even though you've killed hundreds of bandits and other such people by the time you get your spaceship working.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

I was pretty nice to her and a dick to the foreman :shrug:

Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007

I somehow managed to avoid learning about the fertilizer in my playthrough so the dialogue options I was given with her were more positive. It definitely felt like they were setting her up as the obvious good guy, at least compared to the idiot corporate bootlicker.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

I don't get why the lady never brings up not letting any of the people from the town in until after you flip the switch and then your only responses are "aw shucks. well. bye" I guess to try to make you feel bad cuz actually bad things are good, and good things...are bad!!!

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

i mean it’s heavily implied beforehand

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

watho posted:

i mean it’s heavily implied beforehand

Sure, but the fact that you can't actually do anything besides shrug and leave is more what bugs me.

Also she says she wouldn't allow bootlickers in, but after you flip the switch she changes to saying she won't allow any of them in period.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

no she says she won’t let them in if they don’t renounce the corporation

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

watho posted:

no she says she won’t let them in if they don’t renounce the corporation

Hrmm. I'll have to go look up the dialogue because I could have sworn she flat out says that anyone there isn't pure enough to be allowed in under any circumstance. But if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired
They do the same thing with the kind of cop-out third way you get offered where the two communities are reunited but the leadership changes: the game goes out of it's way that you've taught people not to dream of better things (you rear end in a top hat).

And I have to agree to that being another part of the writing that's honestly kind of lazy and smug: not telling you the full consequence of your choices and then berating you for making them once it's irreversible. There's probably ways to do that right but Outer Worlds doesn't manage it.

rudecyrus
Nov 6, 2009

fuck you trolls
Just play Disco Elysium instead.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


it’s doing this thing where it presents a moral dilemma with a very obvious right answer and then bends over backwards to try to frame it as complex (it fails)

the status quo is just so comically lovely, why would anyone with a brain ever side with it

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010

Andrast posted:

The writing in Outer worlds is absolutely dull plodding mess that has so little to say about anything it might as well not exist

it's about on the same level as fallout 4

Outer worlds coming out at the same time as Disco Elysium did it absolutely no favors

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFI61TauPgU
Man I didn't realize how far Nolan was in UC2 right now

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

A big flaming stink posted:

Outer worlds coming out at the same time as Disco Elysium did it absolutely no favors

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Peg me down as someone who thought Disco was okay but isn't jazzed enough to ever replay it.

It's text-heavy and can be over-bearing when every conversation and observation is told in minute detail. It has extensive reactivity but no real branching or clever sequence-breaking. The critical path is fairly short and the last act is very on-rails. It fares best as an interactive novel because the actual game part is bog-standard point-and-click.

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Alaois posted:

hey instead of doing that thing i said where people just relitigate the same loving arguments they've already had 6 separate times in different places on the forums with the same people over and over again, watch Civvie play Rise of the Triad because we were all good boys and girls this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBKVnSv1Uc

Was looking forward to this video, and Civvie did not disappoint. :allears:

Well, except for the fact that he didn't play the shareware levels. Maybe he should do a video on that, and save himself the pain of playing Extreme ROTT.

Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Dec 24, 2019

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sh5d4Ut3uI

Double Toasted doesn't get posted enough. Here's Corey talking about The Witcher.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.
out of the two "big" RPGS i have played which were greedfall and TOW. i thought TOW was better, that being said, its too shallow and needs alot more world building, hopeuflly the dlc will make it better and i havent beaten either yet because i went back and finally beat the TW3 king of rpgs(beat the main campaign and heart of stone a while ago but was loving around in BAW. it loving rocks and i hope more games take after it despite the mixed at best combat. with greedfall. it suffers too much from spiders jank and the story spinning its loving wheels and all the quests being kinda crap. its not a bad game but Tehsnaker video explains it best.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Least believable thing about star wars ix is that the emperor fucks. Most believable is Lando putting the moves on the horse lady.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Least believable thing about star wars ix is that the emperor fucks. Most believable is Lando putting the moves on the horse lady.

in the old canon, his "kids" were all weird genetic vat grown experiments and poo poo for idk reasons. i am more weirded out that he had a son. especially one that got away from dear old dad and managed to have a kid.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Yeah, that guy fucks. He had like a family and a wife I guess? And then a son who was not evil? A good compromise might have been that the son was still a piece of poo poo who sold his daughter for booze even though he walked out on his dad.

My episode ix hot take is that everything with Chewbacca being alive was thrown together at the end and spliced in after they got cold feet about killing him/corporate called/kids cried at the test screening, like a GI Joe: The Movie situation.

Now Chewbacca is doomed to spend his old age trapped among strangers he barely knows, all his friends dead and his usefulness to anyone at an end.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Dapper_Swindler posted:

in the old canon, his "kids" were all weird genetic vat grown experiments and poo poo for idk reasons. i am more weirded out that he had a son. especially one that got away from dear old dad and managed to have a kid.

It's just plain stupid on multiple levels. It doesn't even land well, because you can see exactly what the reveal's gonna be well before it pops, and it's so out of left-field trying to sneak around eight movies and a shitload of TV shows that there's no way to parse it as anything but an asspull.

Also you're telling me The Emperor of the Galaxy didn't have Darth Vader, one of his many semi-canonical Hands, or a few million ISB agents go drag his kid in when he was at the height of his power just to tidy away loose ends? The galaxy is NOT a small place when the Empire's looking for some average-joe.



Antifa Turkeesian posted:

My episode ix hot take is that everything with Chewbacca being alive was thrown together at the end and spliced in after they got cold feet about killing him/corporate called/kids cried at the test screening, like a GI Joe: The Movie situation.

Now Chewbacca is doomed to spend his old age trapped among strangers he barely knows, all his friends dead and his usefulness to anyone at an end.

My first thought was WHAT other transport? Because it's a bigass flat desert and it'd be hard to miss.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

My episode ix hot take is that everything with Chewbacca being alive was thrown together at the end and spliced in after they got cold feet about killing him/corporate called/kids cried at the test screening, like a GI Joe: The Movie situation.

Now Chewbacca is doomed to spend his old age trapped among strangers he barely knows, all his friends dead and his usefulness to anyone at an end.

bitch you don't know how old wookies can be

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Clerical Terrors posted:

They do the same thing with the kind of cop-out third way you get offered where the two communities are reunited but the leadership changes: the game goes out of it's way that you've taught people not to dream of better things (you rear end in a top hat).

And I have to agree to that being another part of the writing that's honestly kind of lazy and smug: not telling you the full consequence of your choices and then berating you for making them once it's irreversible. There's probably ways to do that right but Outer Worlds doesn't manage it.

Also at the same time nobody cares. Parvati and Max should have a LOT to say about what happens, but they don't. Parvati mentions it once or twice but has zero impact otherwise for what is ostensibly her lifelong home and is filled with everyone she knows. You're surrounded by characters who aren't characters, cardboard cutouts of tropes that exist to give gameplay variation between the samey fights you do through the entire game.

Like remember when rose in new Vegas would try to kill you if you're a evil dickhead or if you side with the legion boone turns on you

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Yeah, that guy fucks. He had like a family and a wife I guess? And then a son who was not evil? A good compromise might have been that the son was still a piece of poo poo who sold his daughter for booze even though he walked out on his dad.

My episode ix hot take is that everything with Chewbacca being alive was thrown together at the end and spliced in after they got cold feet about killing him/corporate called/kids cried at the test screening, like a GI Joe: The Movie situation.

Now Chewbacca is doomed to spend his old age trapped among strangers he barely knows, all his friends dead and his usefulness to anyone at an end.

I figured it was because its very easy to replace a guy in a suit compared to replacing Hamill/anyone else of the original big 3. Congrats Chewie, you live forever because your skeleton is an easily replacable Dismey asset.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice

Neddy Seagoon posted:

It's just plain stupid on multiple levels. It doesn't even land well, because you can see exactly what the reveal's gonna be well before it pops, and it's so out of left-field trying to sneak around eight movies and a shitload of TV shows that there's no way to parse it as anything but an asspull.

Also you're telling me The Emperor of the Galaxy didn't have Darth Vader, one of his many semi-canonical Hands, or a few million ISB agents go drag his kid in when he was at the height of his power just to tidy away loose ends? The galaxy is NOT a small place when the Empire's looking for some average-joe.



My first thought was WHAT other transport? Because it's a bigass flat desert and it'd be hard to miss.

I could buy this honestly, I believed that Kylo could be that clever when he chooses to be and set that up to manipulate Rey. There were enough like, rock formations to hide things in.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Raenir Salazar posted:

I could buy this honestly, I believed that Kylo could be that clever when he chooses to be and set that up to manipulate Rey. There were enough like, rock formations to hide things in.

Why would that be a better lesson than actually making her kill her friend in a moment of anger?

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



Neddy Seagoon posted:

My first thought was WHAT other transport? Because it's a bigass flat desert and it'd be hard to miss.
I mean, I didn't miss seeing it in the scene.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Triclops is now Canon again.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Why would that be a better lesson than actually making her kill her friend in a moment of anger?

Because this way Ben gets to chat to his father's best friend (and the First Order gets an important intelligence asset) as well.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Ghostlight posted:

I mean, I didn't miss seeing it in the scene.

Yeah same.

I figured that they were sure about which one Chewie was on but the second transport was visible earlier on.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


*can sense Chewbecca in an Star Destroyer practically in orbit*

OH MY GOD I KILLED CHEWBECCA IN THAT TRANSPORT THAT WAS A HUNDRED FEET ABOVE ME.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Darth Walrus posted:

Because this way Ben gets to chat to his father's best friend (and the First Order gets an important intelligence asset) as well.

From a species notoriously difficult to torture, almost certainly gonna die before giving up anything, by a man who has demonstrated he's steering well clear of his former family because of his shame and general angst? The torture is pretty much "gently caress it, just get rid of him" anyway, because the moment they're caught escaping they all get lined up against the wall by an execution detail. You know, the team including a known senior Resistance officer that might actually know something worthwhile and actually be breakable during interrogation?



Doctor Spaceman posted:

Yeah same.

I figured that they were sure about which one Chewie was on but the second transport was visible earlier on.

I honestly did not see a second transport in that scene, so that's on me. "Oh no, he was on the other transport" is still a real rear end-pull though.

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Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
It's not in all the shots and you never see it take off or anything. The whole thing is pretty cheap and contrived.

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