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SUNKOS posted:The origins aren't the point, though. The characters of the sequel trilogy were mostly terrible, but Snoke was interesting and very well-acted by Andy Serkis chewing the gently caress out of the scenery and his absence left Adam Driver carrying everything. Smoke was a cardboard cutout and dying was literally the only interesting thing that happened with his character.
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Dec 27, 2019 05:43
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I’m evil how? I mean, evil like I’m the devil?
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Dec 27, 2019 05:43
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Baronash posted:Smoke was a cardboard cutout and dying was literally the only interesting thing that happened with his character. Seeing Snoke arrive on Exogol and walk into Sheev's chamber with the same arrogance and put-downs while Sheev barks "Who fuckin' snitched?" before we finally see two Sith have a fight would have been fun. Polo-Rican posted:Really? Nothing else to do? I can think of a lot of things they could have done with the already-too-large cast besides bringing back a character that hadn't been mentioned once in the new trilogy. Maybe, I just think a lot of that cast was absolute pants and really boring to watch. I think we're different audiences though, I'm not a big Star Wars fan and just like the spectacle from certain things and the possibilities for dumb fun, if I want good story and plot I'll be watching something else.
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Dec 27, 2019 05:53
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Lilikoi posted:TROS worst crime is y'all saying that in retrospect the prequels don't suck as much this is one thing it hasnt done i always said the prequels were good Zoran posted:The most infamously “bad” prequel scene is probably the “I hate sand” one. And yet I think that exchange is a pretty strong bit of writing. It's a reminder that Anakin had a lovely childhood, and that Padmé comes from a life of total comfort. It also tells us that Anakin's time as a Jedi hasn’t really given him a better life, since he has held on to this childhood pain all this time. Anakin turns his complaint into a feeble come-on, imagining that maybe Padmé can heal this trauma and make him whole. people say the dialogue isnt naturalistic or whatever but complaining about some minor detail of where you come from that annoys you is the most natural thing ever
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Dec 27, 2019 05:57
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awkwardly oversharing about your life is a natural part of talking to the girl you like and as a result it's not surprising that this is largely alien to Star Wars fans
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Dec 27, 2019 06:00
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Snoke's death would have been fine if it had led to Rey and Kylo teaming up and doing something interesting. It being immediately ignored and Kylo v Rey continuing on as if Snoke never existed or mattered was a waste. Also, it's possible for Rey to be no one from a dynastic point of view but not be no one from a force training/awareness point of view. The new trilogy is spectacle that left me cold. But I really don't get the people who think TLJ was a masterpiece and hated ROS. TLJ almost immediately walked back anything that was interesting about it. If Rian Johnson had any guts, Finn finding out about the profiteering from either side would have redoubled his "gently caress this im out" attitude, Poe would have been court martialed (instead of "see how many people your disobedience has killed? I believe that has taught you a lesson to become our leader"), and Rey would have joined Kylo.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:02
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General Dog posted:I’m evil how? I mean, evil like I’m the devil? "gently caress you, you Jedi money lover!" context: In the TV edit of the movie Casino, Joe Pesci's line "gently caress you, you Jew motherfucker!" is... cleaned up... to "Screw you, you Jew money lover!"
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Dec 27, 2019 06:12
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SUNKOS posted:
Ren could have carried the final movie as the villain I think.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:19
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Bleck posted:awkwardly oversharing about your life is a natural part of talking to the girl you like and as a result it's not surprising that this is largely alien to Star Wars fans The prequels have survived - and thrived - because the nerds' complaints are invariably either trivial bullshit like that, or a blanket rejection of the films' very existence. The prequels remain well-shot, well-written, well-edited, and so-on. It doesn't matter if the hyperreal aesthetic isn't to your taste; they're just good. The same is true of the Ewok films, which have likewise survived because they're really well-made. The Disney films are all astonishingly poorly edited, so they will not age well. And the writing in straight trash. (Note: I haven't seen Episode 9 yet, but I don't expect to be surprised.) The sole exception is Rogue One, because the weird editing comes across as almost avant-garde.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:25
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I 1000% agree with you and it's why I find the scene in TLJ with the second lesson so compelling. It's why Empire is so good. It's Buddhism 101 but it's a foundational way to look at the universe, not a way to do sick backflips and throw lightsabers. And that's why I loving hate the last 30-45 minutes of TLJ, because it backtracks on everything it set up in the very same movie.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:(Note: I haven't seen Episode 9 yet, but I don't expect to be surprised.) Oh lord, I can't wait. I don't know much about this sub, but I do know SMG.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:29
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I think the Darth Vader Frankenstein walk + NOOOO!! is basically perfect
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Dec 27, 2019 06:30
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General Dog posted:It might have been interesting if Snoke was superficially a soft-spoken, kindly old man who only occasionally flashed his inner malice, rather than an obviously evil monster man. Might be more believable as someone who could appear to be an appealing alternative to Luke. this seems to be how that new kylo ren comic portrays him: a kindly grandfather figure whom luke disfigured for no reason.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:36
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Pollyanna posted:And that's why I loving hate the last 30-45 minutes of TLJ, because it backtracks on everything it set up in the very same movie. Why do you feel that? I don't think it backtracked. (Unless you want to take Kylo Ren seriously.) (Though I agree it feels like it went on too long. I feel Kylo taking over the first order should have been the finale.)
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Dec 27, 2019 06:45
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I 1000% agree with you and it's why I find the scene in TLJ with the second lesson so compelling. It's why Empire is so good. It's Buddhism 101 but it's a foundational way to look at the universe, not a way to do sick backflips and throw lightsabers. We've gone on a truly miraculous journey over the three trilogies: 1. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." 2. "In awe at the midichlorians on this lad. Absolute unit." 3. "I AM ALLLL THE JEEEDIIIIIIII!!!!"
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Dec 27, 2019 06:48
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The Little Death posted:All this does is ruin the force thought, because it turns it from a mystical state achieved through meditation and contemplation to a mutant superpower. I realize that ship had already sailed a long time ago, but stuff like this is why I hate fandom so much. No story can stand on poetics or themes alone, it has to be dissected and everything has to have a mechanistic explanation because nerds have no sense of storytelling. As it is, it seemed like she was more of a Krishna character, a higher spiritual being reborn into baser existence. Instead it's that force abilities pass down through families, and of these only 2 matter. I mean if you want me to say the force hasn't been horrifically mangled into a mutant superpower, I'm not going to. In service to action scenes and wow moments, it's become just that. But I was the person complaining that every showing of Yoda after Episode 2 had him talk backwards, even though the reason he talked backwards was to specifically annoy and test Luke, and the moment he felt Luke had failed that test, for the rest of the film he spoke normally. I will disagree with blaming fandom for no story being able to stand on poetics or themes alone though. For one, the Force being mystical and working mystically is one thing. But if there is no consistency in storytelling, then the suspension of disbelief becomes stretched and broken. And it's more often than not, filmmakers/storytellers who break first, in trying to explain something poetic or thematic. Take JK Rowling, she can't help but say poo poo about Harry Potter that no one wanted to know about.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:59
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The mistake of TLJ is going oh the Jedi sacred texts are worth saving and a return to the safe status quo. And maybe it's unfair but I blame Disney for that not Rian. Though I will admit it is an albatross around the film's neck and what keeps it from being truly great. But it's still interesting, and I will always appreciate a film I feel a creative force behind rather than purely marketing. I don't know, I enjoy it and rewatch it occasionally which I don't do with TFA and I will certainly never do with ROS. Like at the very least you can't say it didn't make some iconic images. The visual poetry on screen is insanely compelling. From Holdo's sacrifice to the throne room fight to Luke facing down the first order, it's all visually gorgeous and sticks with me, and I think it would be something even those who hate the movie can at least say it looks good. Eimi fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 07:01
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How did Palpatine build a massive fleet of planet destroyers on a shithole planet like Exegol? He didn't exactly have nerds working how to miniaturize Death Start tech with him
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Dec 27, 2019 07:14
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Eimi posted:Like at the very least you can't say it didn't make some iconic images. The visual poetry on screen is insanely compelling. From Holdo's sacrifice to the throne room fight to Luke facing down the first order, it's all visually gorgeous and sticks with me, and I think it would be something even those who hate the movie can at least say it looks good. I think the main thing that dragged TLJ down is the whole casino planet thing. The scenes you mentioned were good and I get what they were going after with the casino planet but the whole thing still feels like a huge stain on the film that sucked up screen time that could have been better used elsewhere, like making the space chase less dull so that Holdo's sacrifice is less "Okay that was awesome but thank gently caress that poo poo's over" to maybe taking some cues from Fury Road about how to keep a chase exciting. I actually thought Solo was a fun movie with my only gripe being that Han was miscast, but that sequence warping through space with that giant monster in there while a Destroyer chases them, it was fairly short if I remember but a real spectacle. Meanwhile in TLJ it felt like it dragged forever which is the last thing a chase should feel like, and combined with the casino planet it made the movie feel like a slog, I think.
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Dec 27, 2019 07:20
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How did Palpatine build a massive fleet of planet destroyers on a shithole planet like Exegol? He didn't exactly have nerds working how to miniaturize Death Start tech with him Good question!
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Dec 27, 2019 07:21
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yeah palpatine's fleet of star destroyers is completely inane shoulda just had a giant apparatus (some kind of Star of Death perhaps) which he shoots sith lightning through and lets him blow up planets from across the galaxy and then you can have him say that technological terrors are nothing compared to the power of the force, making a reference that misses the point entirely, like the rest of the movie
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Dec 27, 2019 07:22
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SUNKOS posted:I think the main thing that dragged TLJ down is the whole casino planet thing. The scenes you mentioned were good and I get what they were going after with the casino planet but the whole thing still feels like a huge stain on the film that sucked up screen time that could have been better used elsewhere, like making the space chase less dull so that Holdo's sacrifice is less "Okay that was awesome but thank gently caress that poo poo's over" to maybe taking some cues from Fury Road about how to keep a chase exciting. I actually thought Solo was a fun movie with my only gripe being that Han was miscast, but that sequence warping through space with that giant monster in there while a Destroyer chases them, it was fairly short if I remember but a real spectacle. Meanwhile in TLJ it felt like it dragged forever which is the last thing a chase should feel like, and combined with the casino planet it made the movie feel like a slog, I think. The casino stuff wasn't helped by it largely recycling Finn's arc from TFA again, complete with the same villain which made me sad because I thought Finn was honestly the most interesting from TFA alone.
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Dec 27, 2019 07:28
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These movies practically beg the audience not to to engage with any notion of limited resources being a thing when it comes to the bad guys. At the same time, the possibility of the Resistance running out of gas is a major plot point in TLJ.
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Dec 27, 2019 07:32
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I said come in! posted:This didn't happen. It did, but maybe you didn't like how it was portrayed. We get a scene showing some stable hands on canto bight re-enacting Luke's whole showdown and it inspiring the little kid to look to the stars and flashing the ring Rose game him proudly. This is telling us that even some lowly rear end little kids heard of Luke's poo poo. RJ is showing us the impact that Luke had using characters he had previously established in the movie, its some economical storytelling there. I guess you can dislike it but what I said definitely happened in TLJ.
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Dec 27, 2019 07:34
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Zoran posted:For the most part this isn’t true. Nah the prequels suck poo poo, namaste.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:16
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How did Palpatine build a massive fleet of planet destroyers on a shithole planet like Exegol? He didn't exactly have nerds working how to miniaturize Death Start tech with him You seem to be a misunderstanding. It's not that the ships were built on Exagol. It's that they were already there, since RotJ.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:17
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SUNKOS posted:I think the main thing that dragged TLJ down is the whole casino planet thing. The scenes you mentioned were good and I get what they were going after with the casino planet but the whole thing still feels like a huge stain on the film that sucked up screen time that could have been better used elsewhere, like making the space chase less dull so that Holdo's sacrifice is less "Okay that was awesome but thank gently caress that poo poo's over" to maybe taking some cues from Fury Road about how to keep a chase exciting. I actually thought Solo was a fun movie with my only gripe being that Han was miscast, but that sequence warping through space with that giant monster in there while a Destroyer chases them, it was fairly short if I remember but a real spectacle. Meanwhile in TLJ it felt like it dragged forever which is the last thing a chase should feel like, and combined with the casino planet it made the movie feel like a slog, I think. The chase isn't really a chase. It's a siege that happens to be moving. If they don't go to the casino, Finn and Rose pretty much stay on the ship with their thumbs up their asses because there's really no meaningful way for either of them to contribute much at that point. I agree that the casino bit needed work, but it was useful for showing a bit of the wider galaxy in Star Wars, the corrupt money-mongers profiting from both sides of the conflict. Nissin Cup Nudist posted:How did Palpatine build a massive fleet of planet destroyers on a shithole planet like Exegol? He didn't exactly have nerds working how to miniaturize Death Start tech with him "The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some would consider to be... unnatural." He ordered them from Amazon.com.empire Everyone fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 08:36
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ungulateman posted:yeah palpatine's fleet of star destroyers is completely inane Onmi posted:
Then why did Palpatine sit on them for decades. It makes no sense.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:39
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That's like saying "Why did he make a giant proclamation that he was going to gently caress up everyone's day later on when he could have said literally nothing and just hosed up everyone's day with his fleet?". The answer is it's a bad movie.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:44
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joepinetree posted:The new trilogy is spectacle that left me cold. But I really don't get the people who think TLJ was a masterpiece and hated ROS. TLJ almost immediately walked back anything that was interesting about it. If Rian Johnson had any guts, Finn finding out about the profiteering from either side would have redoubled his "gently caress this im out" attitude, Poe would have been court martialed (instead of "see how many people your disobedience has killed? I believe that has taught you a lesson to become our leader"), and Rey would have joined Kylo. Yes, thank you, this is what I keep saying. Johnson isn’t the guy who could have saved the trilogy if not for that idiot Abrams. They both hosed up, just in different ways. Incidentally TFA is playing on tv right now and man despite a few cute moments overall the dialogue is so bad. HAN: We lost our son. LEIA: No. (long beat) It was Snoke. Of course we never find out what the hell happens with Ben, his parents, Luke, and Snokeltine, but on top of that, this is flat, soap opera level dialogue that tells us nothing about mood, theme, or character. REY: Where are the others? KYLO REN: You mean the murderers, traitors and thieves you call friends? You'll be relieved to hear that I have no idea. (beat) You still want to kill me. REY: That happens when you're being hunted by a creature in a mask. This is awkward as hell. Kylo is fake surprised that Rey is mad at him? Rey replies by calling him a “creature in a mask”, instead of saying, of course I want to kill you dumbass. What is even being expressed here? And of course we never get any insight into why Kylo thinks of the Resistance that way, that might have been too interesting. People wouldn’t shut up for years about ”I hate sand”, which as Zoran just showed is in fact a good scene. But this stuff somehow passes by without comment.
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Dec 27, 2019 08:44
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nemesis_hub posted:Yes, thank you, this is what I keep saying. Johnson isn’t the guy who could have saved the trilogy if not for that idiot Abrams. They both hosed up, just in different ways. I don't think I even remembered "I hate sand." For me the moment from the prequels that draws the most mockery is: Anakin: I killed the Sand People. Men, women, children, I killed them all! Padme: Oh, Annie, wanton slaughter makes me soooo hot for you!
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Dec 27, 2019 08:50
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Everyone posted:I don't think I even remembered "I hate sand." For me the moment from the prequels that draws the most mockery is: Well, that's the point of the scene, and the character - Padme feels sympathy for Anakin's pain and rage and regret, and spares no thought for his victims. Like her shock and dismay to learn he was a slave, the ongoing atrocities on Tatooine are never real to her except to the extent that she can see it. She personifies the fatal flaw in the Republic - it finds it sufficient to hide its problems from itself instead of solving them. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Dec 27, 2019 09:39
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The prequels are such utter trash. Now the new movies are utter trash also. Why is it so hard to not make utter trash?
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Dec 27, 2019 10:02
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The Little Death posted:All this does is ruin the force thought, because it turns it from a mystical state achieved through meditation and contemplation to a mutant superpower. This was the status quo. You already had to be born with powers to be a force user, it wasn't something anyone with spiritual will could do. TLJ didn't change that at all. Even if Rey was just born lucky, that's the same backstory as every single non-Anakin prequel jedi. I would have loved it if TLJ had changed that, but it didn't. Luckily, rise of Skywalker did, by having a regiment of normal people who weren't born with mutant powers (stormtroopers) change their lives based on a religious feeling that bound them together.
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Dec 27, 2019 10:08
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Mando’s season finale was one of the most Star Wars things ever. Holy fuckin’ poo poo. Let Filoni and Favreau make a trilogy!
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Dec 27, 2019 10:09
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Mulva posted:That's like saying "Why did he make a giant proclamation that he was going to gently caress up everyone's day later on when he could have said literally nothing and just hosed up everyone's day with his fleet?". The answer is it's a bad movie. I think that was probably to justify people coming to help with Lando at the end. Nobody came to help in TLJ presumably because they didn't care or thought there wasn't much of a threat, but Palpatine telling everyone he was coming to gently caress their poo poo up likely prompted everyone to band together for that assault on Exogol. I'm just assuming that's why that happened anyways, since Luke rumors would probably be considered flimsy reasoning but an outright declaration of war will prompt a "Oh poo poo we need to do something" response. How the hell they all successfully flew there and were able to navigate in that space when Palp's fleet needed the radar thing is beyond me, though. I guess that's why they brought horses? First Order vs Final Order would have been more fun. Snoke would have hosed up Palpatine.
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Dec 27, 2019 10:11
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whoever had the idea that the film should've opened with ren ruling in his throne room only for sheev to come in and force lightning everyone going THAT'S MY loving THRONE aptly demonstrates that even the ideas in TROS are presented in the most bland way possible
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Dec 27, 2019 10:36
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Gonz posted:Mando’s season finale was one of the most Star Wars things ever. Thanks for not spoiling this in the spoiler thread
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Dec 27, 2019 10:37
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Eimi posted:If you're going to have a ship break the rules of FTL and do it in atmo at least make it badass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAnVlDeFYNs It still astonishes me that this sequence was less than a minute and still made such a big impact on me and everyone who saw it.
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Dec 27, 2019 10:39
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Kill All Cops posted:Thanks for not spoiling this in the spoiler thread *thumbs up* Edit: I figured this was movie spoiler territory and wanted to play it safe since Mando is Disney+ TV. Gonz fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 10:40
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