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Sandwich Anarchist posted:You got a death wish, Johnny Truant? Laces out, Sandwich Anarchist! We better learn to hotwire a
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Dec 29, 2019 00:16
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GABA ghoul posted:I mean, there is nothing special about organic chemistry or biochemistry. If it can make freaky magic metallic alloys it can make proteins. The other possibility is that the Builders were deliberately targeting organic matter because they wanted to prevent any other living species from developing to the point where it could pose a threat to them. Given what seems to have happened when the PM absorbed sentient beings, either they were operating under conditions which led them to believe that no other sentient life existed, or they weren't targeting sentient life, because their "weapon" started deviating from its programming once it consumed sentients. If you have the ability to adjust the laws of physics, you can presumably get whatever metallic alloys or other basic elements and compounds from manipulating fusion reactions. I'd presume that, at least within the physical reality of the Expanse universe, there's properties unique to organic life that are required for the PM to function properly, whether that's down to quantum-scale observer effects or replication systems. I suppose the PM might be efficiently gathering information about life-forms in the target system by disassembling and absorbing them, while also adapting itself to any special circumstances within that system. An iron rock is presumably an iron rock anywhere in the cosmos, but life could develop divergently, so the Builders would want to know something about the specific form life took in every target system. Venus does seem to suggest that the PM can either use other materials or that it only needs to have the building blocks of life, not actual living things.
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Dec 29, 2019 00:44
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I dont think theres anything special aboyt it using orgsnic material, its just really convenient. You use your space telescopes to eye out systems which have useful resources or living space for your people. you shoot off this little sample of protomolecule to go there and build a gate to your weird little hyperspace bubble. ideally the protomolecule hits the planet you want to use and it does you the favor of wiping out the extant biosphere on the planet so theres no nasty local lifeforms to deal with; not that youre so muvh worried about fighting them as you are about your new place having a termite problem. Then the place is nice and empty so you can just go and terraform it for whatever ends you need or start building houses or whatever.
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Dec 29, 2019 08:10
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Grand Fromage posted:It's described as hijacking already extant self-replicators more than itself being a self-replicating Von Neumann machine kind of deal. It also seems like it would only do that on a planet the PM aliens can live on, so if it were to hit a poorly scouted planet that has life but isn't habitable for them, it'd just fail. But PM tech is all sort of mysterious and unexplained because it's incomprehensibly advanced. Honestly in some ways leaving things unexplained is better. Not to jump back on the BSG derail too much, but the later seasons once questions started getting answered it ultimately was less interesting than the mystery.
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Dec 29, 2019 08:49
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I did not like the twist of "God is real and they're actually influencing reality". I know RDM managed to do good Sci Fi Religion stuff in DS9 but BSG it feels like i'm watching a PureFlix movie sometimes. Kirk Cameron comes out and says "hey did you know that there is only one true God and it was good all those billions of people who believed in heathen gods died horribly?". I really like the idea the PM was just a tool when created, but of course Humans come in and turn it into a weapon because humans have to modes, kill it or gently caress it.
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Dec 29, 2019 09:20
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twistedmentat posted:I did not like the twist of "God is real and they're actually influencing reality". I know RDM managed to do good Sci Fi Religion stuff in DS9 but BSG it feels like i'm watching a PureFlix movie sometimes. I would argue something stated explicitly in the the first few minutes of the first episode and then repeatedly in many following episodes isn't a twist.
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Dec 29, 2019 09:34
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Grand Fromage posted:I would argue something stated explicitly in the the first few minutes of the first episode and then repeatedly in many following episodes isn't a twist. This is exactly why I don't get why people think that the "God did it" being the ending "twist" is bad storytelling. The Cylons were saying "God is doing this" for 70+ straight episodes. They were right all along. It's not a twist, it's just storytelling.
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Dec 29, 2019 10:04
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Saying you didn't like "God did it" as a storytelling device is fine. But it was not a surprise in the slightest and I dunno why people got so upset about the "twist" that one of the running themes of the show was not just in there for shits and giggles.
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Dec 29, 2019 10:07
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didn't RDM and co. want to have dick benedict playing Actual God at the end of the first season?
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Dec 29, 2019 10:08
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BSG was loving bad and it has nothing to do with the stupid religious stuff. It has to do with All Along the Watchtower, Starbuck/Poochie, no real examination of the short-sightedness of the Chief's inability to put aside a personal grudge, everyone immediately going along with Lee's stupid idea to fly all of the best technology into the sun, their decision to gently caress primitives (explain to me how this is consensual at all), and a host of other things. You want to get to the ending of "God did it," fine, whatever, but it was done with bad execution. However,.this thread is about an actual Good Show.
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Dec 29, 2019 12:22
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Nail Rat posted:BSG was loving bad and it has nothing to do with the stupid religious stuff. It has to do with All Along the Watchtower, Starbuck/Poochie, no real examination of the short-sightedness of the Chief's inability to put aside a personal grudge, everyone immediately going along with Lee's stupid idea to fly all of the best technology into the sun, their decision to gently caress primitives (explain to me how this is consensual at all), and a host of other things. You want to get to the ending of "God did it," fine, whatever, but it was done with bad execution. 
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Dec 29, 2019 12:39
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BSG is fun and good, is a great space action/drama with great characters and memorable scenes and good ideas The overarching plot however is disapponting and full of holes and is pretty obvious that they were making it up as they went along and got lost in the way Still a good show, I dont regret watching it at all
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Dec 29, 2019 12:59
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Boris Galerkin posted:I don’t understand why Mars would be abandoned just because other planets exist. Europe didn’t get abandoned because America was discovered. We built and continue to build cities in inhospitable hellholes like Las Vegas and Dubai. I see no reason why they wouldn’t keep terraforming Mars. I know everyone already responded to this better than I ever could, but it remains to be said that Europe did very much get abandoned by tons of people in-between the establishment of the first colonies and modern nation-state America starting to control immigration. In-between war, plague, periods of starvation or simply the draft an incredible number of people sold what little resources they had (or their freedom) and risked it all for a seat on a boat to the colonies were stolen land and opportunity, in contrast, were aplenty. Overnight Mars went from having the most valuable commodity in the system, the only planet with unrealized potential for non-space civilization to expand, to simply being one among plenty. It's reason for being was gone. Mars in season 4 is Detroit a few decades ago.
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Dec 29, 2019 13:44
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Mars is a garbage planet compared to Earth, the prospect of other Earths existing and being just a couple of months\years away wll be enough to make any long term colonization project on any planet that doesn't naturally support life become a waste of time. In a couple of decades the entire Sol system return to being an extension of earth through political and economic necessity, with mars being relegated to having the same importance as any random jovian moon, it's just a place you build space stations around to have convenient points to rally your defenses around when necessary. In a hundred years you're going to have several dozen systems supporting a billion plus lives with their own biospheres and breathable atmospheres, who in their right mind would opt to continue trying to transform mars, a planet that's always going to be colder than earth and with one third of the gravity.
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Dec 29, 2019 14:18
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Finally finished watching! Probably the weakest season of the show. Still good, though. And from what I understand it's mostly setting up stuff for the next season, which should be bonkers. Aww yeah. I didn't like that they recast Avasarala's husband. They're very different looking, he doesn't have an accent, and he's comparatively quite younger looking.Took me a while to even realize that's who that character is supposed to be! But I can be a little dumb sometimes so that's probably on me, ha! I'm sad my two favourite characters are gone, Anderson Dawes and Ashford. (Do we ever get his first name?) RIP Pirate Grandpa, you were cool as heck. I guess Anderson Dawes isn't technically gone, but where he at?
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Dec 29, 2019 14:53
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Klaes Ashford is his full name. Was mentioned a few times but easy to miss. Yeah the husband switch up confused for a bit too. Don't like the new fella anywhere near as much.
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Dec 29, 2019 15:07
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I thought the new husband sucked, and all of his poo poo was bad Best thing he did was hire those two PR people, and that was a good move cause we got to see Avasarala use them as punching bags
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Dec 29, 2019 16:04
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Beardcrumb posted:Klaes Ashford is his full name. Was mentioned a few times but easy to miss. It’s mentioned at the very least in the finale or episode before it. The part where Ashford is introduced to Marco’s/Naomi’s son. Marco says “this is Klaes Ashford, traitor to the belt.”
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Dec 29, 2019 16:06
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Was also mentioned when he announced to everyone in ringspace that they have achieved spin gravity.
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Dec 29, 2019 16:22
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I mean he literally says it in his first line ever in the show, it's not a secret.
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Dec 29, 2019 16:33
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Johnny Truant posted:I thought the new husband sucked, and all of his poo poo was bad Yeah, the Avasaral/husband scenes were pretty bad. I did appreciate though how overall Avasarala's scenes do show her character changing, becoming more of a venal politician. Her motivations become more questionable; is she actually trying to promote peace and welfare or is she just clinging to power? So although not the best, the political scenes are some of the most directly relevant as a critique of our current political system and leadership. Which makes you look back to S1/S2/S3... was she ever really a good guy? She's gone from torturing to assassination strikes.
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Dec 29, 2019 17:20
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The PM is still just a tool; protogen just barely started loving with it to the point that they didnt bave a clue as to how little they understood what it did.
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Dec 29, 2019 17:44
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Nail Rat posted:BSG was loving bad and it has nothing to do with the stupid religious stuff. It has to do with All Along the Watchtower, Starbuck/Poochie, no real examination of the short-sightedness of the Chief's inability to put aside a personal grudge, everyone immediately going along with Lee's stupid idea to fly all of the best technology into the sun, their decision to gently caress primitives (explain to me how this is consensual at all), and a host of other things. You want to get to the ending of "God did it," fine, whatever, but it was done with bad execution. Nobody should watch BSG unless you enjoy sweaty gross people with no chemistry grunting and mashing their mouths on one another for 20-minute PG-13 sex scenes every episode, petty assholes backstabbing and murdering one another at every opportunity unless they happen to have plot armor at that moment (like in GOT), and a completely nonsensical broader plot. Or if you like being blatantly lied to by a tv-show. Each episode begins with the total lie "they have a plan" -- nope it turns out nobody had a plan it was just a bunch of stuff that happened because this is God's dialectic for human history.
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Dec 29, 2019 20:08
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BSG does have one interesting plot thread about peoples' lot in life. At one people the people on the fuel ship that just so happens to have been in the fleet revolt because they see it as unfair that they have to toil away refining fuel while there are people on presidential yachts and vacation ships who live easy lives. I don't remember exactly how it ends, but I'm pretty sure it ends with the poor people realizing the value of knowing their place and not rocking the boat.
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Dec 29, 2019 20:29
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Not to keep on this Bashing BSG line of thought, but without it TV Scifi would have never got off the ground imo. Expanse was picked up to fill that space that was created when BSG was hot on Syfy. Obviously there is more to it but TV Scifi was pretty meh at the time. It isn't the best show, but for it's time it was. the_enduser fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 29, 2019 |
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Dec 29, 2019 20:36
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Delthalaz posted:Nobody should watch BSG unless you enjoy sweaty gross people with no chemistry grunting and mashing their mouths on one another for 20-minute PG-13 sex scenes every episode, petty assholes backstabbing and murdering one another at every opportunity unless they happen to have plot armor at that moment (like in GOT), and a completely nonsensical broader plot. Or if you like being blatantly lied to by a tv-show. Each episode begins with the total lie "they have a plan" -- nope it turns out nobody had a plan it was just a bunch of stuff that happened because this is God's dialectic for human history. You should watch the 2003 remake, it was much better. Pretty decent show. Skip the miniseries though.
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Dec 29, 2019 21:12
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Cojawfee posted:I don't remember exactly how it ends, but I'm pretty sure it ends with the poor people realizing the value of knowing their place and not rocking the boat. Pretty much nailed it.
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Dec 29, 2019 22:04
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BSG was a fine product of its time, but Goons have to act as if they never ever liked it lmao
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Dec 29, 2019 23:11
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Horizon Burning posted:BSG was a fine product of its time, but Goons have to act as if they never ever liked it lmao I'm looking forward to 2029 when many of the same people praising The Expanse now will making GBS threads on it by comparison with whatever the new Sy-Fy flavor is.
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Dec 29, 2019 23:39
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Horizon Burning posted:BSG was a fine product of its time, but Goons have to act as if they never ever liked it lmao And now they're just making poo poo up, that workers' revolt episode ended with Adama and Roslin agreeing to institute job rotations between the white-collar and blue-collar positions so people don't have to work on the poo poo ships for years without a break, and Tyrol reestablishing the trade union from New Caprica.
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Dec 29, 2019 23:43
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Horizon Burning posted:BSG was a fine product of its time, but Goons have to act as if they never ever liked it lmao I loved the show but can't deny it has serious problems even back then. At least early on I thought a lot of the acting was terrible. Like Boomer. And the constant re-use of CGI was pathetic on day one. I also really liked the music in the first couple seasons and then Bear mcreary got obsessed with middle eastern guitar for some reason and that's all we would hear for like 2 years. There's amazing episodes like Downloaded that don't make any sense when you think about it in retrospect. Mu Zeta fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 29, 2019 |
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Dec 29, 2019 23:57
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Everyone posted:I'm looking forward to 2029 when many of the same people praising The Expanse now will making GBS threads on it by comparison with whatever the new Sy-Fy flavor is. "All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
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Dec 29, 2019 23:59
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lmao 'they re-used cgi, frauds!' oh goons
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Dec 30, 2019 00:00
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Horizon Burning posted:BSG was a fine product of its time, but Goons have to act as if they never ever liked it lmao Usually when better things or more things come along you start getting perspective on the older stuff. BSG was pretty much all there was for 10 years. Now there's alternatives that show how bad BSG was in hindsight. Nothing wrong with that.
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Dec 30, 2019 00:03
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My opinion of the expanse is already changing. I think it's great but they're streamlining too much and I think failed to portray the Protomolecule and the builders correctly (as evidenced by the confusion and misunderstanding surrounding them, whereas their portrayal in the books is a lot more clear) They need to handle future seasons more slowly rather than the breakneck pace of seasons 3 and 4.
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Dec 30, 2019 00:05
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Phi230 posted:Usually when better things or more things come along you start getting perspective on the older stuff. BSG was pretty much all there was for 10 years. Now there's alternatives that show how bad BSG was in hindsight. Nothing wrong with that. gentle goon, the thing about perspective is that it allows you to appreciate something for the context in which it was in, instead of arguing that a show made in 2009 wasn't as good as one made in 2019 or whatever it is you think lmao
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Dec 30, 2019 00:10
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Horizon Burning posted:gentle goon, the thing about perspective is that it allows you to appreciate something for the context in which it was in, instead of arguing that a show made in 2009 wasn't as good as one made in 2019 or whatever it is you think lmao The context bsg was made in also sucked big time, the writing and story poo poo the bed hard. I remember at the time people hated the final season and ending. It has only gotten worse with time thank you
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Dec 30, 2019 00:17
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BSG was good TV to watch when it aired, like lost it suffers in retrospect from how blatant the audience deception was, people feel cheated, strong opinions develop, decade spanning arguments ensue. Will the expanse be any different? Will Bezos really churn out the money for all 9 or whatever seasons? Will the final books suck? I mean at least the expanse doesn't rely so heavily on the whole unsolved mysteries aspect of it all, we know it's 'ancient aliens' from day one, and the narrative is less 'drama happens in spite of inexplicable weirdness taking place' and more 'inexplicable weirdness organically adds tension to pre-existing conflicts'. I'm really hoping this show gets to tell a complete story.
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Dec 30, 2019 00:19
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I'm hoping for space communism as the ending.
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Dec 30, 2019 01:56
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I'm hoping for space communism as the ending. Season 9 finale is just episode 1 of TNG
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Dec 30, 2019 01:57
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